EPT
[ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
prosatan
Romania8333 Posts
| ||
|
Zergxhx
China173 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
Lazyer
United States362 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands976 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines327 Posts
and he won. wow | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
(not meant as a insult I just somehow missed or forgot his best tournies I guess) | ||
|
SkelA
Macedonia13063 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:22 gravity wrote: Despite watching a lot of SC over the years I have no impression of Soma - except everyone says his ZvP is good. (not meant as a insult I just somehow missed or forgot his best tournies I guess) Muta guy, basically plays that match-up to bring all of his games into a position that allows him to switch mid-way and win by having the P reach a dead-end. | ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
| ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:21 Toshinou-Kyouko wrote: i woke up to best rushing soma and he won. wow Probably talked to Mini that told him how to actually play against these muta-obsessed bait and switch type of players. Best's style is terrible against these guys. | ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines327 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21845 Posts
poor Soma | ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
SkelA
Macedonia13063 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21845 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines327 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
SkelA
Macedonia13063 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
Zergxhx
China173 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:42 TMNT wrote: Best seems to come in with the mindset that I'm gonna stick to my build and blind counter you if luck is on my side. And Soma seems to come in with the mindset that I'm gonna do all kinds of tricks that rely on my opponent not getting information, instead of playing a standard game despite me being the better player. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
 | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
Surely mutas? | ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:00 TMNT wrote: And Soma seems to come in with the mindset that I'm gonna do all kinds of tricks that rely on my opponent not getting information, instead of playing a standard game despite me being the better player. I think this is not a bad strategy overall. It's a high ROI approach in PvZ. Claiming otherwise is a bit of an error. Soulkey himself has shown that it's a valid bedrock. | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:15 RowdierBob wrote: I can’t believe a map with 4 island expansions seems to hard for protosses against Zerg. The only kind of island map that is bad for Zerg vs Protoss is the kind where you start on a 1-base island and have no means to fast expand. Others are just normal service. The kind of "island" maps with separated lanes (Monty Hall, Arkanoid, Death Valley) are actually good for Zerg. | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:18 TMNT wrote: The only kind of island map that is bad for Zerg vs Protoss is the kind where you start on a 1-base island and have no means to fast expand. Bruh, Sparkle… | ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21845 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:15 RowdierBob wrote: I don't think this loss had anything to do with the mapI can’t believe a map with 4 island expansions seems to hard for protosses against Zerg. | ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines327 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:18 TMNT wrote: The only kind of island map that is bad for Zerg vs Protoss is the kind where you start on a 1-base island and have no means to fast expand. I guess it’s the fact they still have to be wary of the ling/hydra all in. But it’d be interesting to see a P play a little more defensive with reaver/cair and prioritise the island expos | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines327 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
prosatan
Romania8333 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:26 RowdierBob wrote: This series is a bit shit. Can’t lie. they can't all be winners, we had a great streak since the last season. | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
didn't even saturate his natural with drones yet | ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:29 Kraekkling wrote: like why would you cancel the 4th cannon when soma was making hydra only didn't even saturate his natural with drones yet See my post for a precise, game-theory optimal assessment. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:29 Kraekkling wrote: like why would you cancel the 4th cannon when soma was making hydra only didn't even saturate his natural with drones yet Like I said, he came in with a mindset of gambling and sticking to his build, hoping it will blind counter Soma's build. Hes playing like a Mini, but I don't think he has the calculations of Mini. He built both the forge and the core in his main in the Uldomok game lol, hoping that "maybe he doesn't make lings". | ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:31 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: King of tricks on Litmus gonna be interesting. 4 hatcheries before pool plz almost | ||
|
Kespa1988
57 Posts
| ||
|
Kespa1988
57 Posts
for a freaking second i thought he will make the hatchery at the mid of the map LMAO I thought the same xd | ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
2:0 | ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
Kespa1988
57 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
| ||
|
SkelA
Macedonia13063 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21845 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
The score was different but somehow I think this was more humiliating than a 4-0 with 3 hydra rushes and one ling-all in. It was pathetic. | ||
|
Rainalcar
Croatia382 Posts
| ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50465 Posts
| ||
|
gravity
Australia1961 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States44784 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:49 gravity wrote: Soma played better but I wouldn't say (from what I saw) that he looked invincible. Bisu or Snow may have a chance if they play him. Agreed. | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:49 gravity wrote: Soma played better but I wouldn't say (from what I saw) that he looked invincible. Bisu or Snow may have a chance if they play him. He controls the information his opponent has in the early game very well and reacts accordingly. Very tricky to play against as he seems to be a very reactive player rather than dogmatically sticking to build orders. | ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:48 RowdierBob wrote: Best macros like no one else and yet tries to get way too fancy with his builds today. Soma way too good. If he tried standard builds, he would have lost 0 4. It's Best's (and Soma's) offbeat builds that got him the 2 wins today (33% seems about right). But Zerg's got more tricks and Soma's got better early micro. Tbh if Soma had gone for standard macro the result would probably have been the same, but I guess this got the job done for him without more intense effort. | ||
|
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands976 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:56 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Soma has learned from Soulkey's style. Difference is however Soma has the best zerg micro, and the best macro too. Hope he can maintain form in ro4 and maybe finals. I was actually thinking that SOma is not bullshit a Jaedong 3.0 from the Kespa era. The insane mechanics and way more refined and insane game knowledge. If not same than Soulkey close to him for sure. | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:55 TMNT wrote: If he tried standard builds, he would have lost 0 4. It's Best's (and Soma's) offbeat builds that got him the 2 wins today (33% seems about right). But Zerg's got more tricks and Soma's got better early micro. Tbh if Soma had gone for standard macro the result would probably have been the same, but I guess this got the job done for him without more intense effort. I dunno. The closest thing we had to a macro game Best won pretty handily. I agree he would’ve still prob lost but I think it was his best chance to win too. | ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:58 RowdierBob wrote: I dunno. The closest thing we had to a macro game Best won pretty handily. I agree he would’ve still prob lost but I think it was his best chance to win too. It wasn't a standard game though. Some went for 3 Hatch Lair with both Spire and Hydra, then lost his Spire and the Mutas did nothing. Best went for a Core expand and got the early scout with Sair. Protoss defends that and most of the times a solid macro follow up is enough to kill Zerg, which was what happenned. The loss on Uldolmok was so unnecessary. He saw the early Lair and just assumed "it's quick Muta/Lurker, no way he ling rushes on such distance, no need to have a wall with cannon then". Well, then Soma ling rushed. | ||
|
Kraekkling
467 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:57 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I was actually thinking that SOma is not bullshit a Jaedong 3.0 from the Kespa era. The insane mechanics and way more refined and insane game knowledge. If not same than Soulkey close to him for sure. imo soma always had the potential to be the best, he just needed to accept this fact and fix his mental being removed from the scene while SK won everything was such a great opportunity to learn and observe. there's nothing SK could do that soma can't do better sometimes you just need to watch players that are arguably worse than yourself which for some reason do much better in specific circumstances and learn from that also some things just take a bit of time until it kinda clicks and suddenly what was hard becomes easy. if anyone remembers how JD entered the scene and was this absolute monster in vs Z and T but somehow struggled against protoss? | ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
Soulkey is a monster macro player. Sure Soma has better micro but Soma has no comeback potential in his games, he gets into his mindgames and switches whilst Soulkey actually has Plan B's and Plan C's even from dire situations. That's why he won it 4 times. Soma a lot of the times folds like a cheap tent if his main strategy fails. He's nowhere near the champion SK is. | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:25 oxKnu wrote: I think you guys are crazy and drunk on this (very unimpressive win because Best is just terrible mentally and also against this style in particular). Soulkey is a monster macro player. Sure Soma has better micro but Soma has no comeback potential in his games, he gets into his mindgames and switches whilst Soulkey actually has Plan B's and Plan C's even from dire situations. That's why he won it 4 times. Soma a lot of the times folds like a cheap tent if his main strategy fails. He's nowhere near the champion SK is. Maybe try watching something else than ASL and u will understand. You are downplaying the most dominant online zerg player from the past 5 years lol. But like Snow he never managed to get an ASL. But every single progamer respect Soma. In fact FlaSh value him super high for killing 1-1-1. He introduced boosting. Created new metas for zerg. But yeah if you just watch ASL and see him getting elimanted all the time i can see how you see him as overrated. | ||
|
Soulforged
Latvia924 Posts
Like, he was outclassed mechanically and tactically today, and in some games, like the last one, strategically. But his mental looked better than ever to me. Looks like he's starting to actually develop champion qualities in how he prepares for the series and how he handles things going off the rails. Started last season, but this season was very noticeable to me. Maybe I'm coping, but IMO he's growing. Maybe it was just low pressure of facing Soma (in other words, no expectations on him), but he performed well even when there were expectations - where he used to always fold. And Soma is a monster, yeah. He's always been an innovator with crazy mechanics, and tbh all he needed was time to flourish. | ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Maybe try watching something else than ASL and u will understand. You are downplaying the most dominant online zerg player from the past 5 years lol. But like Snow he never managed to get an ASL. But every single progamer respect Soma. In fact FlaSh value him super high for killing 1-1-1. He introduced boosting. Created new metas for zerg. But yeah if you just watch ASL and see him getting elimanted all the time i can see how you see him as overrated. I don't think he is overrated. I was actually defending him before he made that ASL final where people were cornering him as some sort of matchup specialist(?). But there is a clear difference between him and Soulkey. SK is a precious gem of the game overall. Soma is just a contender for now. I hope Bisu comes through because his style will showcase Soma's weaknesses if that series actually has some decent games. Soma will make mince meat out of players that can't Corsair micro. Bisu is a different game. | ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:41 Soulforged wrote: Best's mentality actually looked pretty decent to me during this entire season. Like, he was outclassed mechanically and tactically today, and in some games, like the last one, strategically. But his mental looked better than ever to me. Looks like he's starting to actually develop champion qualities in how he prepares for the series and how he handles things going off the rails. Started last season, but this season was very noticeable to me. Maybe I'm coping, but IMO he's growing. Maybe it was just low pressure of facing Soma (in other words, no expectations on him), but he performed well even when there were expectations - where he used to always fold. And Soma is a monster, yeah. He's always been an innovator with crazy mechanics, and tbh all he needed was time to flourish. I don't think he is growing that much. Must be frustrating to always falter mentally towards the end of tournaments. But what was different now is that he knew and identified that he cannot play standard vs Soma. Even though it ended up being ugly in the end, the mindset was to change strategy which, believe it or not, he was not willing to even consider a few ASLs back. From that point of view, that was obvious. That's actually one of the critique's of the other pros, for him and Queen in general. Well, plus the fact that he cannot micro Sairs, which is basically a running joke at this point. | ||
|
TornadoSteve
1077 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:41 Soulforged wrote: Best's mentality actually looked pretty decent to me during this entire season. Like, he was outclassed mechanically and tactically today, and in some games, like the last one, strategically. But his mental looked better than ever to me. Looks like he's starting to actually develop champion qualities in how he prepares for the series and how he handles things going off the rails. Started last season, but this season was very noticeable to me. Maybe I'm coping, but IMO he's growing. Maybe it was just low pressure of facing Soma (in other words, no expectations on him), but he performed well even when there were expectations - where he used to always fold. And Soma is a monster, yeah. He's always been an innovator with crazy mechanics, and tbh all he needed was time to flourish. Couldn't have said it better | ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
| ||
|
Soulforged
Latvia924 Posts
Think the series that started him exploring other paths more was the one-sided ASL beatdown Mini gave him a while back. The other problem he had was straight up nerves, getting too shaky, too much adrenaline, the heavier the expectations and the further he's in. When he's a complete underdog that usually doesn't rise, but when he has a shot or god forbid is a favorite in a ro8 or further in, he used to completely fold. Idk any solutions to that besides exposure therapy, some people start stone cold, some need a lot of experience, and Best over the years has been one of the worst offenders. There's a running joke that a silver miner can only win a finals against another silver miner, because they both choke. And Best is the ultimate silver miner. But now? It kind of seemed that he's getting there. His performance didn't really drop. I gave up hopes on Best many years ago, but now I'm starting to hope again. | ||
|
RogueTheGOAT
116 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Maybe try watching something else than ASL and u will understand. You are downplaying the most dominant online zerg player from the past 5 years lol. But like Snow he never managed to get an ASL. But every single progamer respect Soma. In fact FlaSh value him super high for killing 1-1-1. He introduced boosting. Created new metas for zerg. But yeah if you just watch ASL and see him getting elimanted all the time i can see how you see him as overrated. Wasn't it that just a few months ago when I said Zerg only looked weak because they were missing Soma and you said that we didn't even know if he would recover after military? Now he's the most online dominant in the past 5 years? So with Queen's back to back ASL, Soulkey's 4 peat, Hero making top 4 regularly and Soma being the most online dominant, doesn't look like Zerg was that weak and it was only Soulkey like you guys used to claim? Anyway, not disagreeing with your post here. Just trying to point out that how absurd it is that in the past 2 years you used Soma in the military as evidence for ZvP not favouring Zerg. | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
On September 29 2025 22:37 TMNT wrote: Wasn't it that just a few months ago when I said Zerg only looked weak because they were missing Soma and you said that we didn't even know if he would recover after military? Now he's the most online dominant in the past 5 years? So with Queen's back to back ASL, Soulkey's 4 peat, Hero making top 4 regularly and Soma being the most online dominant, doesn't look like Zerg was that weak and it was only Soulkey like you guys used to claim? Anyway, not disagreeing with your post here. Just trying to point out that how absurd it is that in the past 2 years you used Soma in the military as evidence for ZvP not favouring Zerg. Well i wasnt sure how in form Soma will be after the miltary. And even when Soma was doing really good he wasnt doing good in ASL it doesnt really change that much. Zerg online And offline was struggling hardcore apart from SK. The queen ASLs zerg was doing good actually cant deny that. It was not only Soma tho. Larva quit. Effort quit. QUeen insane slump. Jaedong been mediocre since ever. And Hero is also under performing lately. You cant deny that apart from SK zerg wasnt doing well. Is funny cuz is not like SK help that much online. SO is basically Some the online zerg goat lol. | ||
|
laurasad
3 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:09 Kraekkling wrote: There's nothing SK could do that soma can't do better sometimes you just need to watch players that are arguably worse than yourself which for some reason do much better in specific circumstances and learn from that. This is such a petty take. Soma and SK have different styles, Soma is more flashy and more entertaining, but soulkey excels at areas where other zergs are nowhere close to him. One of them is his scouting, specially against Terran. For instance, he always keeps a few annoying hyperactive zerglings at the Terran entrance to scout, create/fake the threat of a ling flood and bait marines out of position. His trademark marine crushing move starts with that. And of course there is his survivability to constant pressure, specially against Terran, that earned him the nickname of iron wall. Soma's ZvT is good, but it's never been near peak Soulkey level. | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6708 Posts
| ||
|
oxKnu
1207 Posts
On September 29 2025 23:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I thought iron wall nickname was cuz of his unbreakable defense and never dying when defiler is out lol Yes, but that's the thing with SK. If you are thinking that that's what makes him special it's a gross disservice to him. He managed to transcend that role and is now a multiple year champion. Soma has a lot of ground to cover. A lot. | ||
|
Kespa1988
57 Posts
Honestly, Soma didn't play great. He looked pretty shaky. And the pressure is only going to increase... What??? Guy came back twice this series, if that wasn't big pressure then I don't know what is... In game on Dominator he was clinical. On Litmus it was pure dominance and fresh mind. His decision was really accurate I wouldn't call him shaky. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States912 Posts
On September 29 2025 23:17 oxKnu wrote: Yes, but that's the thing with SK. If you are thinking that that's what makes him special it's a gross disservice to him. He managed to transcend that role and is now a multiple year champion. Soma has a lot of ground to cover. A lot. So does Soulkey. Soulkey would be an absolute bonjwa if he focused more on his early game mining and set ups. Soulkey was never the "best" online zerg player for even more than 2-3 weeks when proleague is the most important platform for a player's earnings. (not asl). Think of ASL as an incentive, like a year-end bonus based on some performance. Most of their income comes from proleague and Soma has always been the best performing zerg in proleague with his early game mineral optimization, advantageous setup to snowball into favorable macro game for him, and carefully crafted builds. The only thing Soma lacks is really the standard game that Soulkey has. Soulkey is the best "standard" player while Soma is closely catching up to his powess. | ||
|
Simplistik
2072 Posts
On September 29 2025 23:18 Kespa1988 wrote: What??? Guy came back twice this series, if that wasn't big pressure then I don't know what is... In game on Dominator he was clinical. On Litmus it was pure dominance and fresh mind. His decision was really accurate I wouldn't call him shaky. It took me a while to figure out what you meant. 'Came back', as in, he was a game down? OK. Both of those were basically gifts. Best didn't build his wall in one of those... | ||
|
G5
United States2907 Posts
Sure, nerves and shakiness can come into matches but in general, when pros look really bad or get utterly owned, it's usually not because they just played bad. It's usually because they lost in the strategic game play and are caught off guard and put into positions they didn't prep for. It could be something like trying to blind counter a player and being dead wrong, or getting hard-core countered, or it's recognizing situations you can usually get away with certain things against a player but they end up punishing you for it in this game, etc. We like to think you can scout for everything and play safe against all and prevail through pure skill but that really isn't a thing at the pro level imo. Players are constantly taking calculated risks to secure an advantage one way or another and some days those risks are super rewarded and other days they lead to you looking like an absolute noob despite being one of the best players on the planet. | ||
|
Destroyer
Czech Republic936 Posts
| ||
|
iFU.pauline
France1647 Posts
| ||
|
Sabu113
United States11065 Posts
Soma has a nasty run. Bisu next would not be fun. Hoping he makes the finals because it'll make snow's win all the better. | ||
|
Miragee
8560 Posts
| ||
|
kidleaderr
365 Posts
| ||
|
TMNT
2892 Posts
| ||
|
TornadoSteve
1077 Posts
Either way, semi won't be a walk in the park for soma | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States912 Posts
On September 30 2025 04:37 TMNT wrote: Funny that many are automatically assuming Soma will get Bisu next. Bisu is favorite against Larva, but there's a world where Larva beats Bisu and Soma tragically dies to a ZvZ lol. Bisu is favored vs soma AND larva based on head to head stats. | ||
|
bw2ku
24 Posts
On September 29 2025 23:37 Shinokuki wrote: So does Soulkey. Soulkey would be an absolute bonjwa if he focused more on his early game mining and set ups. Soulkey was never the "best" online zerg player for even more than 2-3 weeks when proleague is the most important platform for a player's earnings. (not asl). Think of ASL as an incentive, like a year-end bonus based on some performance. Most of their income comes from proleague and Soma has always been the best performing zerg in proleague with his early game mineral optimization, advantageous setup to snowball into favorable macro game for him, and carefully crafted builds. The only thing Soma lacks is really the standard game that Soulkey has. Soulkey is the best "standard" player while Soma is closely catching up to his powess. Soulkey's won 4 ASLs in a row.... when any other zerg comes close to that, then they can be "catching up to his prowess". | ||
|
Vasoline73
United States7809 Posts
 .Also I'm 0/3 on predictions for the ro8 lol | ||
|
iopq
United States963 Posts
On September 30 2025 09:06 bw2ku wrote: Soulkey's won 4 ASLs in a row.... when any other zerg comes close to that, then they can be "catching up to his prowess". ASL is like a dozen games, tiny sample size While SK is still the best macro Zerg, based on his record outside ASL he needed a lot of luck to win 4 times in a row. One of those lucky coincidences was not having to play vs Larva, Soma or Effort in ZvZ because they were not participating. | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States912 Posts
On September 30 2025 09:06 bw2ku wrote: Soulkey's won 4 ASLs in a row.... when any other zerg comes close to that, then they can be "catching up to his prowess". It would've been real nice if Soulkey performed just as well online while Soma has always performed on the most important stage which is proleague and many games are played, with tens of thousands of dollars ons take every night (contrary to what foreigners think) | ||
|
iopq
United States963 Posts
On September 30 2025 08:12 Shinokuki wrote: Bisu is favored vs soma AND larva based on head to head stats. But nowhere near favored when you look at overall PvZ elo compared to Soma's ZvP elo. That's the biggest sample size we can compare | ||
|
bw2ku
24 Posts
It would've been real nice if Soulkey performed just as well online while Soma has always performed on the most important stage which is proleague and many games are played, with tens of thousands of dollars ons take every night (contrary to what foreigners think)[/QUOTE] Because you're an insider and know the pro circle's dialogue lol? When have they EVER used proleague as a metric for success? Lord. Sure it may be a more lucrative daily thing for those who choose to participate, but nobody goes around talking about how many Proleagues theyve won lol. If it were as important as you claim, every pro player would do everything they could to partake in them daily, which is never the case.... | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13181 Posts
| ||
|
Artas1984
132 Posts
| ||
|
Shinokuki
United States912 Posts
On September 30 2025 10:26 bw2ku wrote: It would've been real nice if Soulkey performed just as well online while Soma has always performed on the most important stage which is proleague and many games are played, with tens of thousands of dollars ons take every night (contrary to what foreigners think)[/QUOTE] Because you're an insider and know the pro circle's dialogue lol? When have they EVER used proleague as a metric for success? Lord. Sure it may be a more lucrative daily thing for those who choose to participate, but nobody goes around talking about how many Proleagues theyve won lol. If it were as important as you claim, every pro player would do everything they could to partake in them daily, which is never the case....[/QUOTE] Even flash has said "proleague is by far the single most important indicator for a player's skill/strength" Proleague = player's sole earnings and reason why they stream bw. ASL is just a nice bonus. If you've been watching proleague you'd know | ||
|
bw2ku
24 Posts
| ||
|
Shinokuki
United States912 Posts
On October 01 2025 07:26 bw2ku wrote: You just make assumptions that I dont watch proleague because I dont subscribe to your irrational idea that proleague is more indicative of a players' greatness as opposed to a tournament that isnt a bo1 that pros mess around and sometimes dont even attend? When was the last time any pro player has bragged about winning a proleague? Please, inform me since you think im so out of the loop. It doesn't happen, that's why.... literally everyone uses ASL titles/placements as a standard for how to measure them. Nope not anymore. Its a bit werid to see larva make it into ro8 and immediately picked as last when getting drafted for proleagues (like getting picked over effort/hero/royal) or the same soulkey picked 2nd/3rd when he was winning ASLs. I'm not saying ASL is a circus. ASL is a big part for sure but when you're earning most of your 120-250k usd from proleague you do tend to want to focus hard at proleague when it's your livelihood. If you do great in proleauge you do get bragging rights as you will be sought out for every night in proleague and you also get big donations towards crowd funded pool. Players love to brag they're #1 proleague player this soley for getting recruited and for getting donation. Now if you win both ASL and perform really well in proleague thats when you're bonjwa level (flash). That's why I said soma is kinda close to soulkey in terms of his powess because soma is so dominant in proleague and soulkey is aight in proleague. It's like "snow" and people have always rated snow top tier because of his performance in proleague and how he can always "win" once he gets over the mental barrier. It's like that for soma. | ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/5219.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/16.jpg)
Pole Star
