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[ASL19] Grand Finals - Page 49

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XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-09 19:35:54
June 09 2025 19:10 GMT
#961
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 09 2025 19:33 GMT
#962
Fun fact: the policy in the team houses wasn't that they had to practice for 16 hours a day. The policy was that they had to sit in front of the computer for 16 hours a day. They weren't forced to actually do anything while they sat there, that choice was entirely up to them.

This meant that for several hours a day a good number of pros was literally just sitting there doing nothing, not playing, not analyzing. They were resting. They just weren't allowed to physically go elsewhere to get rest.

That changed later when coaches realized that this policy wasn't healthy for the kids. So they started incorporating sports time, and Flash was among the players who loved doing sports, as he mentioned on occasion. During the peak years of SC many players got more time away from the computer as the coaches learned how important it was to have balance. They started asking players to take more breaks and not overwork themselves, as they began to notice the wear and tear that was ruining talented players. Coaches became more lenient and more aware of good coaching practices.

And it worked. SC competition peaked like never before.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands5962 Posts
June 09 2025 19:35 GMT
#963
True true:
FBH #1!
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway772 Posts
June 09 2025 19:38 GMT
#964
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...

I unironically like this kind of attitude. There is something freeing about just going all-in on one specific thing.
Just say fuck it to everything else, and dedicate your entire beeing to that one thing.
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8709 Posts
June 09 2025 19:50 GMT
#965
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...


I feel like you watched too many battle shounen.
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-09 20:19:09
June 09 2025 19:53 GMT
#966
On June 10 2025 04:50 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...


I feel like you watched too many battle shounen.



i live in a 3rd world country+ Show Spoiler +
so basically a real life battle shonen
, you need this kind of mentality to survive here if u're a part of the working class.
people that dont develop this kind of mentality, become depressed and suicidal, cause life in this bitch is hard af if u're not born rich.
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium7171 Posts
June 09 2025 20:51 GMT
#967
On June 10 2025 04:33 Magic Powers wrote:
Fun fact: the policy in the team houses wasn't that they had to practice for 16 hours a day. The policy was that they had to sit in front of the computer for 16 hours a day. They weren't forced to actually do anything while they sat there, that choice was entirely up to them.

This meant that for several hours a day a good number of pros was literally just sitting there doing nothing, not playing, not analyzing. They were resting. They just weren't allowed to physically go elsewhere to get rest.

That changed later when coaches realized that this policy wasn't healthy for the kids. So they started incorporating sports time, and Flash was among the players who loved doing sports, as he mentioned on occasion. During the peak years of SC many players got more time away from the computer as the coaches learned how important it was to have balance. They started asking players to take more breaks and not overwork themselves, as they began to notice the wear and tear that was ruining talented players. Coaches became more lenient and more aware of good coaching practices.

And it worked. SC competition peaked like never before.


Practise gets better over time compared to the first generations. I imagine it also helped when the first generation of progamers were given a coach role later on. Wasnt Starcraft one of the first esports to be given this pro houses structure in Korea ? Right at the end of Brood War into SC2 is was getting better but by the word of SC2 progamers it was pretty hard. SC2 progamer Dark said that most of pros left their wrist in those Kespa days. Was it the rush to catch up with the other progamers that started sc2 early ? or just a follow up from BW. IDK. These days if you watch League of legends pro houses documentaries is very optimized. Is way more healthy than before for sure.

Specifically for brood war that is individual rather than setting a general aproach to practise for everyone i think is better to pick what better for you. Who knows what Nony peak could have been having a choice in that practise regimen. If im not mistaken he is also a musician so He was proly more used to a different method since kid.

Piano method or music there is also a lot of similarities with learning martial arts aswell.

My issue with this method for an RTS like Brood War or SC2 is that it just cover so few of the general picture. And you will have to be mature enough aswell.
There is also the constant updates you will get maps. Meta . Devices even.

Hell micro muta wasnt even a thing when those progamers started. Game has been in constant evolution.

Now is easy to say oh yeah is more effective to learn muta micro in micro maps rather than playing 30 games a day lol.

Btw they figured that also pretty quick cuz the first time i saw a person using a micro map was Ret in one of those Artosis vlogs.

I personally think Rain method of playing few games then go into analitic mode is the best. But it doesnt work for everyone. I dont remember the exact progamer that said this but was something like. If i dont click spam like crazy i cant play good. Well if you clicked less maybe your hand will be more healthy too. Im pretty sure if Starcraft was a powerhouse esports in 2025 we will see them playing less and having more coaches to help them in different matchups and situations. We gotta remember too that Korean culture is a hardworker one. Every single field is extremely competitive. Atleast from outside that Piano method is not something i have seen they talk about. Musicians go crazy untill hands hurt etc.
iFU.pauline
Profile Joined September 2009
France1775 Posts
June 09 2025 21:14 GMT
#968
Rain's method is good because he is not playing Zerg or Terran. That shit Protoss race can just get away with 200apm. FACT
No coward soul is mine, No trembler in the world's storm-troubled sphere, I see Heaven's glories shine, And Faith shines equal arming me from Fear
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27462 Posts
June 10 2025 00:22 GMT
#969
On June 10 2025 04:38 Timebon3s wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...

I unironically like this kind of attitude. There is something freeing about just going all-in on one specific thing.
Just say fuck it to everything else, and dedicate your entire beeing to that one thing.

It’s a stupid position. And it doesn’t involve working less hard, just smarter.

I was in Italy recently, a country I’m rather fond of by being massively into Italian football.

Let’s say I want to actually get decent at speaking Italian. I can already basically pronounce everything correctly, I know how the language works that way but I’ve very little vocabulary. Grammar is pretty similar to French so I’ve got a decent idea there.

Do I spend 14 hours a day just grinding Duolingo phrases until I brute force it into my brain, or do I do a bit of study, go to some classes, seek out some Italian websites and try to communicate there etc?

If I grind Duolingo enough I might get there, but it’s like, incredibly inefficient compared to alternatives.

Good practice > bad practice. It doesn’t preclude an insane grind either.

Let’s assume that a good practice regime on like a 9-5 workday > a bad practice regime where you’re going 9-9 or whatever. That doesn’t stop a particularly dedicated person doing a 9-9 with an efficient regime.

From any JinJin translation video (happy cake day by the way!) I’ve ever seen about practice regimens, the players themselves are critical about how efficient it was.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-10 01:16:16
June 10 2025 00:25 GMT
#970
On June 10 2025 09:22 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2025 04:38 Timebon3s wrote:
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...

I unironically like this kind of attitude. There is something freeing about just going all-in on one specific thing.
Just say fuck it to everything else, and dedicate your entire beeing to that one thing.

It’s a stupid position. And it doesn’t involve working less hard, just smarter.

I was in Italy recently, a country I’m rather fond of by being massively into Italian football.

Let’s say I want to actually get decent at speaking Italian. I can already basically pronounce everything correctly, I know how the language works that way but I’ve very little vocabulary. Grammar is pretty similar to French so I’ve got a decent idea there.

Do I spend 14 hours a day just grinding Duolingo phrases until I brute force it into my brain, or do I do a bit of study, go to some classes, seek out some Italian websites and try to communicate there etc?

If I grind Duolingo enough I might get there, but it’s like, incredibly inefficient compared to alternatives.

Good practice > bad practice. It doesn’t preclude an insane grind either.

Let’s assume that a good practice regime on like a 9-5 workday > a bad practice regime where you’re going 9-9 or whatever. That doesn’t stop a particularly dedicated person doing a 9-9 with an efficient regime.

From any JinJin translation video (happy cake day by the way!) I’ve ever seen about practice regimens, the players themselves are critical about how efficient it was.



you go to italy, talk to people all day, learn by doing... in 6 months ur italian level would be x2 more fluid than taking classes and ur accent would actually sound like a native. You go all in into italian culture, u dont do duolingo if u're serious about learning italian.

DuoLingo and classes is for people that want to get acceptable italian... Turist level italian.


i saw this happen in real life, my friend Swann, from France, didnt speak a word of spanish (and chilean spanish is like the hardest form of spanish there is...) he did not take spanish classes, did not study spanish, he just went to his phd clases, talked to people and was smart enough to sound like a chilean boy in 6 months...

mother fucker is such a baller that a year later had a hot as fk colombian girlfriend living with him in France.


if you want to take a a random person, and take him to B rank level, you can probably do this with no pain using "smart practice".
if you want to be #1 in your craft, you say fuck it, and go all in, smart practice is not enough, you have to put everything on the line.

Normal people shall complain.
exceptional people shall do.

people are confused in this thread because some say that "the best way to learn starcraft is this...slow but steady approach...", i agree, that is the best way to learn StarCraft, for NOOBS... like you and me.

.. Between experts with high amount of talent, "smart practice" is not enough, u need to have an edge, that edge in STARCRAFT is practice.

im not talking learning lenguage, im not talking piano, im not talking guitar... im talking STARCRAFT, and in STARCRAFT TO BE REALLY GOOD YOU NEED TO PRACTICE MORE THAN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU ATM...


if im FlaSh and JD practices 12 hours a day, id practice 12 and 1/2 hours a day...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/j2lcGA5X7xQ

thats it.
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27462 Posts
June 10 2025 01:47 GMT
#971
On June 10 2025 09:25 XenOsky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2025 09:22 WombaT wrote:
On June 10 2025 04:38 Timebon3s wrote:
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...

I unironically like this kind of attitude. There is something freeing about just going all-in on one specific thing.
Just say fuck it to everything else, and dedicate your entire beeing to that one thing.

It’s a stupid position. And it doesn’t involve working less hard, just smarter.

I was in Italy recently, a country I’m rather fond of by being massively into Italian football.

Let’s say I want to actually get decent at speaking Italian. I can already basically pronounce everything correctly, I know how the language works that way but I’ve very little vocabulary. Grammar is pretty similar to French so I’ve got a decent idea there.

Do I spend 14 hours a day just grinding Duolingo phrases until I brute force it into my brain, or do I do a bit of study, go to some classes, seek out some Italian websites and try to communicate there etc?

If I grind Duolingo enough I might get there, but it’s like, incredibly inefficient compared to alternatives.

Good practice > bad practice. It doesn’t preclude an insane grind either.

Let’s assume that a good practice regime on like a 9-5 workday > a bad practice regime where you’re going 9-9 or whatever. That doesn’t stop a particularly dedicated person doing a 9-9 with an efficient regime.

From any JinJin translation video (happy cake day by the way!) I’ve ever seen about practice regimens, the players themselves are critical about how efficient it was.



you go to italy, talk to people all day, learn by doing... in 6 months ur italian level would be x2 more fluid than taking classes and ur accent would actually sound like a native. You go all in into italian culture, u dont do duolingo if u're serious about learning italian.

DuoLingo and classes is for people that want to get acceptable italian... Turist level italian.


i saw this happen in real life, my friend Swann, from France, didnt speak a word of spanish (and chilean spanish is like the hardest form of spanish there is...) he did not take spanish classes, did not study spanish, he just went to his phd clases, talked to people and was smart enough to sound like a chilean boy in 6 months...

mother fucker is such a baller that a year later had a hot as fk colombian girlfriend living with him in France.


if you want to take a a random person, and take him to B rank level, you can probably do this with no pain using "smart practice".
if you want to be #1 in your craft, you say fuck it, and go all in, smart practice is not enough, you have to put everything on the line.

Normal people shall complain.
exceptional people shall do.

people are confused in this thread because some say that "the best way to learn starcraft is this...slow but steady approach...", i agree, that is the best way to learn StarCraft, for NOOBS... like you and me.

.. Between experts with high amount of talent, "smart practice" is not enough, u need to have an edge, that edge in STARCRAFT is practice.

im not talking learning lenguage, im not talking piano, im not talking guitar... im talking STARCRAFT, and in STARCRAFT TO BE REALLY GOOD YOU NEED TO PRACTICE MORE THAN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOU ATM...


if im FlaSh and JD practices 12 hours a day, id practice 12 and 1/2 hours a day...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/j2lcGA5X7xQ

thats it.

None of that goes against anything I’m saying.

I literally said there’s nothing stopping players practicing 12 hours a day, they’ll get an edge.

Assuming similar natural talent, if I have a fantastic practice regime on guitar, and have a rival who adopts the same regime, but puts in twice the hours, they’ll be better than me.

If I have a shit practice regime and just grind it out, versus a guitar player with a well-considered approach to practice, and asssuming a similar level of natural talent, they will get better than me, more quickly.

It’s a big part of why foreigners bridged the gap in SC2 when Kespa pulled out. Without the inherent advantage of playing all the time with a higher calibre of player in-house and to a degree trying to do it solo, the top foreigners were better suited to that changed environment. Given they had to figure out how to maximise their practice already, and they couldn’t lean on similarly talented players as those were their direct rivals.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 10 2025 07:06 GMT
#972
Yo-Yo Ma doesn't usually practice much. Three hours in one day is a lot for him.
People call that talent, but he would disagree. He says his practice is just highly optimized.

https://www.thestrad.com/9-opinions-on-performance-and-career-by-cellist-yo-yo-ma/192.article
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8195 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-10 07:13:15
June 10 2025 07:12 GMT
#973
Yeah, I would add two things to the discussion:

1- Systematic and structured practice would probably be immensely beneficial to acquire and refine mechanics in Starcraft. It would certainly allow people to develop habits that would prevent them from getting injured. However, it would do little for strategic understanding, decision making etc, where i think is the real difference between absolute elite players. And for that you probably need to play a lot.

2- I think when it comes to the difference it would make in the competitive order, the biggest one would be that it would allow people with no special abilities to develop top tiers mechanics. The biggest change would be in “good” players who end up plateauing indefinitely because their mechanics hit a ceiling, that they can’t multitask well enough to play a top level game. That’s the immense majority of people.

I don’t think Flash or Snow’s mechanics would change that much. They have this rare talent we talked about earlier that makes brute force work. But it might be that they would play with less tension in the wrists, and have a higher longevity (in fact, everyone should be able to play indefinitely).
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1732 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-10 08:58:58
June 10 2025 08:55 GMT
#974
On June 10 2025 04:10 XenOsky wrote:
Brute force is the way... others forms of practice is for crybabies like nony (im talking starcraft, i dont give a fuck about piano or guitar best way of practice)

flash sacrificed an arm to be #1 ever...


-KT coach: "hey flash, you are really practicing too fast and for too many hours... u need to chill man, play slower and practice less hours... "
-FlaSh: "?????????????? dafuq u talking about i have to play JD next week... hes kinda fast and practices 29 hours a day"

IdrA was like... "ima do whatever they say".... and mother fucker became #1 foreigner.
he didnt cry, he just went to a pro team and did what he was told to do, and the kid became a beast.

the other guy, went to korea, and was like "coach this shit is too harsh, we need to practice less hours bois..." insta back to NA. even tho he was like x3 more talented than idra...


boxer in his book talks about how he felt ashamed after he saw an olympic skater practicing until her feet was spilling blood everywhere, then he was like "i need to practice until my fingers bleed"... he became the most iconic person in all of esports because... brute force > any other method, at least in starcraft...

slow practice is for newbies learning the game, if u plan to be #1, then u have to go full beast mode, unbalanced lifestyle, where ur craft is all that matters...

Man you're just not paying attention, coming in with this insane "smash urself to be #1 or you're a fucking snowflake" nonsense. Practice 12 hours a day, fine, but split it between, for example, analysis, build order optimisation, long macro skills, etc. and you'll get further than the angry teenager smashing his keyboard 12 hours a day in endless rage. (ref: Idra and his complete pyschological inability to get out of his own way).

It's about getting more from your practice, being more committed to being excellent, not less. Hurting yourself just to prove you're tough is ridiculous and counter-productive.

EDIT: I would personally love to have seen what Idra could have achieved if he were more mature.

EDIT 2: As I read back now also over your next comment, there's a real sort of Nietschze-esque ubermensch vibe to what you're saying which has incredibly distasteful overtones and a rich history of horrible outcomes when you really try to apply it consistently as a philosophy to who is a winner and who is a loser, who is worthy and who is not.
EleGant[AoV]
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway772 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-10 10:27:23
June 10 2025 10:25 GMT
#975
I feel like that your practice would naturally evolve in that direction anyway.
If you play 12 hours a day, every day, you would recognize your weaknesses and where you need to improve.
Once you’re past just grinding out mechanics and multitasking, I think your practice would «organically» develop in the right direction.

But I agree, if you think your way to stardom is just banging your head against the keyboard hard enough, you’re kinda retarded and you won’t get far.
Thing is though, in order to get into a team house in the first place, you had to have some sort of basic understanding of what it took to get good at StarCraft. So the players already kind of knew how to practice.
mtcn77
Profile Joined September 2013
Turkey729 Posts
June 10 2025 11:57 GMT
#976
It is hard discussing Starcraft with newbies. The game is about 0.5 second slice input intervals and what you can "batch" in each period. The game lasts longer, but players who have mastered this, do more. Those who haven't, don't even kill lurkers with marines. Fact of life, speed matters. There is no substitute for speed when the game waits 0.5 seconds and inputs all commands in the buffer that you have entered.
Turrican
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway772 Posts
June 10 2025 12:14 GMT
#977
Yeah, I would hope the game lasts longer than 0.5 seconds.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
June 10 2025 12:17 GMT
#978
When you practice slow, the point of that is to increase accuracy, not to stay at a slow speed forever. Slow practice builds the foundation for increased accuracy at a faster pace.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1732 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-10 12:22:10
June 10 2025 12:20 GMT
#979
On June 10 2025 20:57 mtcn77 wrote:
It is hard discussing Starcraft with newbies. The game is about 0.5 second slice input intervals and what you can "batch" in each period. The game lasts longer, but players who have mastered this, do more. Those who haven't, don't even kill lurkers with marines. Fact of life, speed matters. There is no substitute for speed when the game waits 0.5 seconds and inputs all commands in the buffer that you have entered.

Dude, we get it, the game has an input buffer. We aren't unable to understand this, we just don't really think it's the most important factor in playing well.

Newbies? I've been here since 2009, and watching/playing since before that, and commentated and organised for a long period post-Kespa. Not everyone who disagrees with you is just stupid or a newbie. There can be multiple perspectives, and many considerations beyond whatever you consider most important. Get some fucking humility. You're not such a genius that nobody understands you - it's you that's failing to convince anybody of your incoherent points and can't communicate in such a way that you could make yourself understood. That's not a mark of brilliance or expertise, and interpreting it as such will get you absolutely nowhere.

EDIT: I broke my own rule of ignoring this dickhead instantly. Fail.
EleGant[AoV]
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1732 Posts
June 10 2025 12:29 GMT
#980
On the topic of better practice regimes for progamers, I just also saw this which is interesting and relevant, and highlights the point that you can at least perhaps improve performance in progaming by adapting training methods to include better sleep, breaks and team activities (that last one is obviously less relevant for BW): https://www.christian-staedter.com/a-better-routine-for-progamer/
EleGant[AoV]
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