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On May 16 2023 11:49 Testbug[bwmn] wrote:Hi, i'm contacting all the new users telling them LATAM can show their support to the StarCraft Community by editing their posts and erasing their votes. I noticed Paranoid Android is still winning the competition even if we remove thier votes. So, removing their votes won't affect the results. Removing their votes might affect our relations with the LATAM community, but maybe i can prepare a nice message to them. Explaining we LATAM can win this competition sending love instead of votes (and waiting for european and american voters to decide what's their favorite map). I asked most of these players why did they vote for my map, and looks like the main reason is this: if they want a 1v1 map, they will pick Sylphid, Eclipse, Vermeer or Poly. But, if they want a 2v2 map, Paranoid Android is a decent option. Paranoid Android has also been selected for the 2v2 BSL, so many LATAM streamers are practicing on PA during their streams. So the LATAM community is seeing that map everyday on facebook/twitch/youtube. Maybe they just don't see the need of a new 1v1 map... They explicitly told me that if they want a super new 1v1 map for a tournament, they would just use the map Neo Rush Hour (link here: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=5533) but they would use Neo Rush hour TOGETHER with Sylphid, Eclipse, Vermeer and Poly. + Show Spoiler +I also think i accidentally blocked/reduced the chances of voting for a 1v1 map among LATAM voters because i submitted Neo Rush hour to most of the tournaments in LATAM. I've been talking to every tournament organizer asking them to include Neo Rush in their tournaments since january, so the LATAM community is completely aware of the existance of that map. I even sponsored many games on Neo Rush Hour so maybe they just can't find space for another 1v1 map in the short term and mid term
Best thing you could've done is ask the admins whether it would be OK to promote (if that's the right word) the map among X community.
Even if the intention was good, the fact that we have many new users registered specifically to vote in this thread is suspect.
As you can see, you've opened Pandora's box both for the people in the thread and for the LATAM people.
I'm certain that for future map contests with community voting the rules will be more strict, which is a good thing. And the current case will serve as a good but unfortunate example.
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1. Lights out
2. PA
Tough call between PA and sandstorm tbh but i m more of a 2v2 player originally and PA s fantastic in 2v2
On the "controversy", bringing latam members here on TL, and have them vote here is great. We need to bridge that gap.
A South American vote should be worth the same as any other vote. They might be new to TL but most of them gave their ID and they are all well established respected players.
I would vouch for all the ones I know who I've seen in BWCL and Nation wars over the last decade. I can name check all of them if that s needed.
Edit: Having a filter for new accounts in the contest to prevent suspicious activity is fine, having the work around of giving your bnet ID to prove you are a legit player is also great. These votes should count!
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After having asked for further proof as in battle net ID for new users, and having received it, minerals you done goofed this time pulling out of a contest of which you are also an admin of evidently. This is why I learnt early on, never partecipate from the beginning on events you are admin of, just because of exactly these kinds of scenarios. Things spiraled out of control in a way you did not predict. Classic recipe for disaster, and then everyone looses.
Look honestly at test bug and the Latin American users that voted, posted and explained their actions, and you will find nothing but respect, explanations and thoroughly explained posts, from their point of view.
This is a world wide map contest. Nothing wrong was done here, and quite frankly, anyone saying otherwise is full of bullocks.
Newsflash: I voted paranoied Android because it is the best map of this contest and it deserves to win, plus it is a 2vs2 map, it reeks of python, and I’ m loving it. No one contacted me or in any way asked me for a vote, I only know 1 South American sc player by name and have never even dm’ ed with him directly.
Also I am European, Italian to be precise, and I casted my vote, my 2 cents, my opinion, so yeah, sue me.
Or rather, admins please temp ban me, because someone needs to take the fall for this, and I volonteer for that shit.
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On May 16 2023 14:08 ArisAZ wrote:
I saw a lot of people supporting the "Paraoid Android" map because it's a good map and it was selected by the BSL for 2v2
But the "preference that many mention" is totally out of place because they believe that nationality influences, if they have problems with that kind of thing, they should not claim the participant but the organizers for giving those rules where the public decides which map is the better.
Next time, put special juries to select maps and don't let the Starcraft community vote or select a map, the reason for the vote doesn't matter, the rules are not being broken, everything is within the parameters that the organization set.
They should control their comments more and stop blaming those who are not to blame for having support
This is a very strong point.
Ideally, every voter would be completely unbiased, consider every map equally, and vote purely on the quality of the map. Let's not pretend that's anywhere close to how it works when you have open voting, and when there were such a large number of maps in the contest. Maybe a trusted group of high level active players (equal # of each race) could be an alternative in the future.
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1.- Paranoid Android XXL
2.- Luces apagadas
ID battle.net --> xkashinx#1203
Amor y paz, se hacen mucho problema, solo verifiquen si es cuenta vieja o nueva de battle, :D, muchos ya teniamos cuenta y venimos jugando SC hace rato, y conocemos este mapa. <3
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1. PARANOID ANDROID XXL
2. CHAMPION
TAG ZeTy#11266
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On May 17 2023 12:38 Paty1 wrote:
1.- Paranoid Android XXL
2.- Luces apagadas
ID battle.net --> xkashinx#1203
Amor y paz, se hacen mucho problema, solo verifiquen si es cuenta vieja o nueva de battle, :D, muchos ya teniamos cuenta y venimos jugando SC hace rato, y conocemos este mapa. <3
Dear admins, in Spanish, Lights Out is translated as Luces Apagadas. Bolivian female player Tytat wrote Lights Out in Spanish... maybe as a form of protest...
Please do not discard Tytat's vote just because she wrote Lights Out in Spanish 🙏🙏🙏 i'll try to contact her to ask her to please write the map names in english.
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On May 05 2023 13:00 Back2Back wrote:
I like Darude and Radiohead
Hi Back2Back, could you please write Sandstorm instead of Darude, and Paranoid Android instead of Radiohead?
both references were super cool to read, but i think we should try to be clearer in order to help the admins who are counting the votes. 🙏🙏🙏
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On May 17 2023 06:23 pebble444 wrote:
After having asked for further proof as in battle net ID for new users, and having received it, minerals you done goofed this time pulling out of a contest of which you are also an admin of evidently. This is why I learnt early on, never partecipate from the beginning on events you are admin of, just because of exactly these kinds of scenarios. Things spiraled out of control in a way you did not predict. Classic recipe for disaster, and then everyone looses.
Look honestly at test bug and the Latin American users that voted, posted and explained their actions, and you will find nothing but respect, explanations and thoroughly explained posts, from their point of view.
This is a world wide map contest. Nothing wrong was done here, and quite frankly, anyone saying otherwise is full of bullocks.
Newsflash: I voted paranoied Android because it is the best map of this contest and it deserves to win, plus it is a 2vs2 map, it reeks of python, and I’ m loving it. No one contacted me or in any way asked me for a vote, I only know 1 South American sc player by name and have never even dm’ ed with him directly.
Also I am European, Italian to be precise, and I casted my vote, my 2 cents, my opinion, so yeah, sue me.
Or rather, admins please temp ban me, because someone needs to take the fall for this, and I volonteer for that shit.
Out of those newly created accounts, how many have voted for Paranoid Android as their number 1 choice?
In case you enjoy European cinema, I'd recommend watching the movie Jagten (https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2106476/). There's a really nice lesson to be learned from it which is rather applicable in the current case as well.
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I completely understand Minerals in this situation.
What a hilariously sad shitshow.
you've screwed up an actually great and long running contest for no reason but what? niche internet brownie points?
well done, guys 
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Disculpen a nosotros los latinos por sumarnos a TL, votar y ser parte de este concurso
No sabíamos que nuestra decisión sea cuestionada y posteriormente quieran omitirla/invalidarla solo porque los votos vienen de Latinos.
Repito en mi post anterior, pongan jurados específicos y no tomen en cuenta al público, porque luego habrá reclamos por ser votos latinos.
Y si hago MENCIÓN porque el 90% de reclamos viene acompañado de la frase "Es latino, de Latam, su nacionalidad"
Es triste que desmerezcan el trabajo de un creador por los votos que pudo conseguir, votos legítimos porque se hicieron dentro de los puntos que puso la organización y no se incumplió nada
Espero analicen y piensen que apartar a la gente con esos comentarios, llevará a que esto se olvide en vez de que crezca y llegué a más gente
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Looks like testbug been doing his homework for this compared to other mapmakers ? He even asked me for advice about his maps. Honestly is impressive he got that many new people to register on TL to vote for his map. And if those voters actually enjoy the maps they voting for i dont really see a problem. I mean is super obvious someone asked them to vote for this but is not against the rules either.
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On May 18 2023 00:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Looks like testbug been doing his homework for this compared to other mapmakers ? He even asked me for advice about his maps. Honestly is impressive he got that many new people to register on TL to vote for his map. And if those voters actually enjoy the maps they voting for i dont really see a problem. I mean is super obvious someone asked them to vote for this but is not against the rules either.
Not swaying votes has always been an agreed upon gentleman’s rule for my contests and this is exactly why. “No cheating” shouldn’t have to be written in the rules. It’s just so out of hand now that the fun in this event has been destroyed, at least for myself. They may continue the nwmc series after this but I plan on moving on. It’s been fun and I applaud the progress the community of mappers have made over the last few years.
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I agree with Aris, the rules must be clear from the beginning and nothing must be assumed. Testbug has not broken any rules.
Please let's avoid comments that sound racist, we are few, let's respect each other.
StarCraft por siempre!!
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Dear voters, please consider this is NOT a "1v1 only" competition. And discarding Paranoid just because it's not playable on 1v1 wouldn't be a good thing. (4)Paranoid Android is a 2v2 map, please don't evaluate it according to the 1v1 meta.
(4)Paranoid Android has been selected for the BSL 2v2 map pool, and offers three different entertaining 2v2 situations depending of the position of your ally!
I still can't belive this Competition has a 2v2 map as one of the top 4!!! And that's amazing! thank you for your votes!
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1093739835472228424/1097746523703488522/Pa18_bwmn.jpg)
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I'm out of touch, what happened to Sandstorm? The only maps I can vote I see from OP are : PA, Chamion and Lights Out.
Anyways:
1. Lights out
2. PA XXL
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On May 18 2023 00:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Looks like testbug been doing his homework for this compared to other mapmakers ? He even asked me for advice about his maps. Honestly is impressive he got that many new people to register on TL to vote for his map. And if those voters actually enjoy the maps they voting for i dont really see a problem. I mean is super obvious someone asked them to vote for this but is not against the rules either.
I think minerals is just being a bad loser here. As long as people from the starcraft community is voting I see no foul play, my only concern is about abusive multiaccounts or non starcraft player/watchers.
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On May 16 2023 14:31 Nirli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2023 11:49 Testbug[bwmn] wrote:Hi, i'm contacting all the new users telling them LATAM can show their support to the StarCraft Community by editing their posts and erasing their votes. I noticed Paranoid Android is still winning the competition even if we remove thier votes. So, removing their votes won't affect the results. Removing their votes might affect our relations with the LATAM community, but maybe i can prepare a nice message to them. Explaining we LATAM can win this competition sending love instead of votes (and waiting for european and american voters to decide what's their favorite map). I asked most of these players why did they vote for my map, and looks like the main reason is this: if they want a 1v1 map, they will pick Sylphid, Eclipse, Vermeer or Poly. But, if they want a 2v2 map, Paranoid Android is a decent option. Paranoid Android has also been selected for the 2v2 BSL, so many LATAM streamers are practicing on PA during their streams. So the LATAM community is seeing that map everyday on facebook/twitch/youtube. Maybe they just don't see the need of a new 1v1 map... They explicitly told me that if they want a super new 1v1 map for a tournament, they would just use the map Neo Rush Hour (link here: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=5533) but they would use Neo Rush hour TOGETHER with Sylphid, Eclipse, Vermeer and Poly. + Show Spoiler +I also think i accidentally blocked/reduced the chances of voting for a 1v1 map among LATAM voters because i submitted Neo Rush hour to most of the tournaments in LATAM. I've been talking to every tournament organizer asking them to include Neo Rush in their tournaments since january, so the LATAM community is completely aware of the existance of that map. I even sponsored many games on Neo Rush Hour so maybe they just can't find space for another 1v1 map in the short term and mid term Best thing you could've done is ask the admins whether it would be OK to promote (if that's the right word) the map among X community.Even if the intention was good, the fact that we have many new users registered specifically to vote in this thread is suspect. As you can see, you've opened Pandora's box both for the people in the thread and for the LATAM people. I'm certain that for future map contests with community voting the rules will be more strict, which is a good thing. And the current case will serve as a good but unfortunate example.
Why? Competition was fair and square, it's not like he brought his family to vote. Those are Starcraft players nonetheless. Stop being crybabies everywhere, minerals should grow a pair. When did the internet/TL became such a pussy place?
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Hi, i know some people is saying that my map is winning just because of the latin american votes, but even after removing those votes, Paranoid Android is still the most voted.
Please could you consider the idea that my map is winning because it is a good 2v2 map?
Look, if we remove the latin american accounts (including top players like Gosudark, Conan1, ZeTy, Yop, etc) this is the count:
Paranoid Android:
0.5 - masoka82
1.0 - ggByron
0.5 - Mutaller
1.0 - oxKnu
0.5 - maybenexttime
0.5 - neocronx
0.5 - Cruiser0929
1.0 - Culture
0.5 - Darathor
1.0 - RemastrTV
1.0 - tedster
0.5 - fearthequeen
1.0 - Optimate
0.5 - LML
1.0 - Peeano
1.0 - Qikz
0.5 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - bovienchien
0.5 - Chosi
1.0 - pebble444
0.5 - osepu
0.5 - art_of_turtle
0.5 - WGT-Baal
0.5 - outscar
1.0 - Nightmarjoo
-------------------------
Total: 18 points
Sand Storm:
1.0 - Nirli
0.5 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - masoka82
0.5 - Jenia6109
0.5 - ggByron
1.0 - RedmundR2
1.0 - nOm.Esk4l4de
1.0 - F0rte
1.0 - ShibaT
1.0 - Mutaller
1.0 - Cruiser0929
0.5 - Culture
0.5 - RemastrTV
0.5 - Xyz1109
0.5 - Galacsia
0.5 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - fearthequeen
0.5 - Qikz
1.0 - Chosi
1.0 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - TNWZombie
1.0 - osepu
0.5 - whiskeydingo
-------------------------
Total: 17.5 points
Champion:
0.5 - Nirli 0.5
1.0 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - Jenia6109
0.5 - Xagec
0.5 - RedmundR2
0.5 - iRkSupperman
0.5 - ShibaT
0.5 - Return
0.5 - oxKnu
1.0 - maybenexttime
1.0 - Darathor
1.0 - Xyz1109
0.5 - VGhost
1.0 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - Suricatta
0.5 - Optimate
1.0 - LML
0.5 - Peeano
1.0 - Malongo
1.0 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - TNWZombie
0.5 - Nightmarjoo
-------------------------
Total: 16.5 points
Lights Out:
1.0 - Xagec
0.5 - nOm.Esk4l4de
0.5 - F0rte
1.0 - iRkSupperman
1.0 - Return
1.0 - neocronx
1.0 - VGhost
1.0 - Galacsia
0.5 - Suricatta
0.5 - tedster
0.5 - Malongo
0.5 - bovienchien
0.5 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - pebble444
1.0 - art_of_turtle
1.0 - whiskeydingo
1.0 - WGT-Baal
1.0 - outscar
-------------------------
Total: 14 points
If we count Latin American top players like Conan1, Yop, Gosudark1, ZeTy, and also Latin American well known Streamers who recently created their TL accounts like YuAnd28 and olipatrick, Paranoid Android is also winning:
Paranoid Android:
0.5 - masoka82
1.0 - ggByron
0.5 - Mutaller
1.0 - oxKnu
0.5 - maybenexttime
0.5 - neocronx
0.5 - Cruiser0929
1.0 - Culture
0.5 - Darathor
1.0 - RemastrTV
1.0 - tedster
0.5 - fearthequeen
1.0 - Optimate
0.5 - LML
1.0 - Peeano
1.0 - Qikz
0.5 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - bovienchien
0.5 - Chosi
1.0 - pebble444
0.5 - osepu
0.5 - art_of_turtle
0.5 - WGT-Baal
0.5 - outscar
1.0 - Nightmarjoo
1.0 - Conan1
1.0 - Yop
1.0 - YuAng28
1.0 - Gosudark1
1.0 - olipatrick
1.0 - ZeTy
-------------------------
Total: 25 points
Sand Storm:
1.0 - Nirli
0.5 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - masoka82
0.5 - Jenia6109
0.5 - ggByron
1.0 - RedmundR2
1.0 - nOm.Esk4l4de
1.0 - F0rte
1.0 - ShibaT
1.0 - Mutaller
1.0 - Cruiser0929
0.5 - Culture
0.5 - RemastrTV
0.5 - Xyz1109
0.5 - Galacsia
0.5 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - fearthequeen
0.5 - Qikz
1.0 - Chosi
1.0 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - TNWZombie
1.0 - osepu
0.5 - whiskeydingo
0.5 - YuAng28
0.5 - Gosudark1
-------------------------
Total: 18.5 points
Champion:
0.5 - Nirli 0.5
1.0 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - Jenia6109
0.5 - Xagec
0.5 - RedmundR2
0.5 - iRkSupperman
0.5 - ShibaT
0.5 - Return
0.5 - oxKnu
1.0 - maybenexttime
1.0 - Darathor
1.0 - Xyz1109
0.5 - VGhost
1.0 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - Suricatta
0.5 - Optimate
1.0 - LML
0.5 - Peeano
1.0 - Malongo
1.0 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - TNWZombie
0.5 - Nightmarjoo
0.5 - Yop
0.5 - olipatrick
0.5 - ZeTy
-------------------------
Total: 18 points
Lights Out:
1.0 - Xagec
0.5 - nOm.Esk4l4de
0.5 - F0rte
1.0 - iRkSupperman
1.0 - Return
1.0 - neocronx
1.0 - VGhost
1.0 - Galacsia
0.5 - Suricatta
0.5 - tedster
0.5 - Malongo
0.5 - bovienchien
0.5 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - pebble444
1.0 - art_of_turtle
1.0 - whiskeydingo
1.0 - WGT-Baal
1.0 - outscar
0.5 - Conan1
-------------------------
Total: 14.5 points
As you can see, there is no difference in the final results.
Finally, if we count all the votes, including new accounts (registered this year) with less than 5 posts, the result is still the same. These votes even increase the gap between Sand Storm and Champion! because most of these voters voted for Sand Storm too:
Paranoid Android:
0.5 - masoka82
1.0 - ggByron
0.5 - Mutaller
1.0 - oxKnu
0.5 - maybenexttime
0.5 - neocronx
0.5 - Cruiser0929
1.0 - Culture
0.5 - Darathor
1.0 - RemastrTV
1.0 - tedster
0.5 - fearthequeen
1.0 - Optimate
0.5 - LML
1.0 - Peeano
1.0 - Qikz
0.5 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - bovienchien
0.5 - Chosi
1.0 - pebble444
0.5 - osepu
0.5 - art_of_turtle
0.5 - WGT-Baal
0.5 - outscar
1.0 - Nightmarjoo
1.0 - Conan1
1.0 - Yop
1.0 - YuAng28
1.0 - Gosudark1
1.0 - olipatrick
1.0 - ZeTy
1.0 - MaxAle
1.0 - Daliz
1.0 - Zerg1982
1.0 - Toffee17
1.0 - Crossfield
1.0 - Abisgoes
0.5 - GonzaLoF
1.0 - bayesiano
1.0 - zayfher
1.0 - ArisAZ
1.0 - Paty1
-------------------------
Total: 34.5 points
Sand Storm:
1.0 - Nirli
0.5 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - masoka82
0.5 - Jenia6109
0.5 - ggByron
1.0 - RedmundR2
1.0 - nOm.Esk4l4de
1.0 - F0rte
1.0 - ShibaT
1.0 - Mutaller
1.0 - Cruiser0929
0.5 - Culture
0.5 - RemastrTV
0.5 - Xyz1109
0.5 - Galacsia
0.5 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - fearthequeen
0.5 - Qikz
1.0 - Chosi
1.0 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - TNWZombie
1.0 - osepu
0.5 - whiskeydingo
0.5 - YuAng28
0.5 - Gosudark1
0.5 - MaxAle
0.5 - Daliz
0.5 - Toffee17
0.5 - Crossfield
0.5 - Abisgoes
1.0 - GonzaLoF
0.5 - ArisAZ
1.0 - Daril
-------------------------
Total: 23.5 points
Champion:
0.5 - Nirli 0.5
1.0 - M3t4PhYzX
1.0 - Jenia6109
0.5 - Xagec
0.5 - RedmundR2
0.5 - iRkSupperman
0.5 - ShibaT
0.5 - Return
0.5 - oxKnu
1.0 - maybenexttime
1.0 - Darathor
1.0 - Xyz1109
0.5 - VGhost
1.0 - Just_a_Moth
1.0 - Suricatta
0.5 - Optimate
1.0 - LML
0.5 - Peeano
1.0 - Malongo
1.0 - sTYleZerG-eX
1.0 - TNWZombie
0.5 - Nightmarjoo
0.5 - Yop
0.5 - olipatrick
0.5 - ZeTy
0.5 - Zerg1982
0.5 - bayesiano
-------------------------
Total: 19 points
Lights Out:
1.0 - Xagec
0.5 - nOm.Esk4l4de
0.5 - F0rte
1.0 - iRkSupperman
1.0 - Return
1.0 - neocronx
1.0 - VGhost
1.0 - Galacsia
0.5 - Suricatta
0.5 - tedster
0.5 - Malongo
0.5 - bovienchien
0.5 - ZZZero.O
0.5 - pebble444
1.0 - art_of_turtle
1.0 - whiskeydingo
1.0 - WGT-Baal
1.0 - outscar
0.5 - Conan1
0.5 - zayfher
0.8 - Paty1
0.5 - Daril
-------------------------
Total: 16 points
Please, Minerals, stop this. You are making the mapping community look unserious.
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EPT
