EPT[ASL13] Ro16 Group D - Page 7
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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oxKnu
1244 Posts
These maps are pretty terrible for P in PvZ. Have to admit. Distinctly so. Keeping in mind that we've had Largo and Benzene in previous editions. These ones stand out even from that. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4135 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:10 Sirris wrote: Well I wanted one protoss to move through..but I voted for both zergs. As others have said...to beat zerg as protoss in the current age you have to be amazing. It's pretty unfair. I'll just say the real problem with PvZ is the blind guessing protoss has to do early game to just not die. Then factor that in with not over making cannons so you're not horribly behind macro wise. It's such a hard razor thin dance to do for protoss that they have to do so many games. The hardship is that protoss doesn't have any real scouting most of the time until the sair is out. That allows zerg to exploit protoss weakness early on. Most of the time that results in a loss from protoss of an economic disadvantage. That's not exactly cool or fair  For example zerg goes 3 base with standard 9/7/3 he can fully rush to win the game..see the result then recover, kill the forge and gateway, tech, then play as normal. That's such an insane benefit in a very difficult mind game focused game like broodwar. It's kind of bullshit to be honest. To repeat the point: You shouldn't be able to possibly win early and then still recover just fine for a long game. That's wrong. yeah I also think that this is the main issue with the match and it makes it really hard to talk about balance and imbalance, because protoss has everything needed to go toe to toe with zerg, but on the other hand its so hard for protoss to pick the right tools | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:26 M2 wrote: yeah I also think that this is the main issue with the match and it makes it really hard to talk about balance and imbalance, because protoss has everything needed to go toe to toe with zerg, but on the other hand its so hard for protoss to pick the right tools Exactly. Zerg has the ability to build a few tech buildings or one upgrade then flip the game completely. Its so hard to adapt with limited information early on for protoss. If protoss magically counters all of zerg's plays perfect they will win easily. But its so hard to do after the various coin flips you have to take. | ||
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TMNT
3117 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:06 EquilasH wrote: I think you might have a point. It definitely looks more rough for Protoss nowadays but I still think part of it is that you need to have amazing multitasking to even up the matchup (thinking Bisu/Kal from KeSPA days). Amazing multitasking helps, but only to some extent. Just look at the first game on decider match. 9 Hatch 9 Pool, Protoss opens with Gateway. Die. You can have these 2 players playing that scenario over and over again and Queen will kill Bisu like 9 out of 10 times. PvZ is just brutal. No amount of micro can save Protoss from that. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Might be something map makers could experiment with. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9033 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:31 Garnet wrote: What are the results so far? This is the final match of the series and Queen is ahead one game. By series I mean all of the this round of 16. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:27 TMNT wrote: Amazing multitasking helps, but only to some extent. Just look at the first game on decider match. 9 Hatch 9 Pool, Protoss opens with Gateway. Die. You can have these 2 players playing that scenario over and over again and Queen will kill Bisu like 9 out of 10 times. PvZ is just brutal. No amount of micro can save Protoss from that. Yeah Zerg has like 10 times the early game tricks they can do in the matchup. | ||
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TMNT
3117 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:30 outscar wrote: Monopoly is such a bad map to be honest, not only little rush distance, there isn't enough room for army to move. It's double bad for protoss, terran can siege and don't worry about anything. Yeah it's a horrible map for Protoss. Basically if it's PvT you ban Monopoly. That's what every Protoss has done this tournament. But if it's PvZ, Allegro is even worse so you have to ban it. I don't know who said that the map pool this season is good for P. There's one good map for P, that is Revolver, which is of coursed banned by T and Z. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:31 EquilasH wrote: I just checked some of the popular maps from back in the day and apparently Katrina was heavily Protoss favored. I assume the in-base natural had something to do with it. Might be something map makers could experiment with. I think shuttle play was a big factor. Also zergs didnt know how to really crush everything yet  Sair/reaver was common on this map to get a third. It wouldn't work now I would expect. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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