EPT
[ASL13] Ro16 Group D
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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tankgirl
Canada420 Posts
HWAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/Kiett/bisugallery/2007/bisu_070418_1.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/Kiett/bisugallery/2012/bisu_120303_9.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/Kiett/bisugallery/2007/bisu_070303_2.jpg) | ||
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angry_maia
314 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8051 Posts
3 hours left ! Bisu and Zero on my LB | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
which pretty much mean your bet is a lock. | ||
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masoka82
Spain594 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey731 Posts
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sysen
27 Posts
Soma>Best Soma>Bisu Zero>Best Bisu>Zero | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
 AfreecaTV StarCraft League Remastered/13Hopefully at least one protoss qualify for good quarterfinals race distribution | ||
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[JXSA].Zergling
China186 Posts
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
(But of course I'm rooting for Best as well.) | ||
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
 ) and Zero's always been fun to watch. | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
Id be very happy if Bisu and Best made it through though. I just think the initial map , although balanced, favors zerg a bit. That being said I could be completely wrong about the map being first. I think it's revolver? If not oh well | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 17:28 sysen wrote: Bisu>Zero Soma>Best Soma>Bisu Zero>Best Bisu>Zero You think soma is better than zero for some reason? | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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sysen
27 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:03 sysen wrote: I think that soma is better than zero in ZvP I don't think that's true but its a fair point We will see. No point in using stats because the players skill level and practice level change. I think we will see Zero fully prepared for protoss and doing very well against them. I could be wrong though. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
Lol nevermind... after that | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
So many mistakes. I guess both players are scared from each other. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
If he had plus 1 weapon does he win at the end there? | ||
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sysen
27 Posts
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TMNT
2733 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:36 TMNT wrote: If you don't know that was Queen vs Bisu, you'd think that was BSL Hasu League or something. Can't believe what I saw. Did Queen turned off his sound? How did that one Zealot kill an entire mineral line by an A command. And how did Bisu forgot to upgrade storm in a PvZ? Yeah, this was such a clown fiesta - really didn't look like an ASL match, much less a match with Bisu vs Zero. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:38 EquilasH wrote: Yeah, this was such a clown fiesta - really didn't look like an ASL match, much less a match with Bisu vs Zero. Agree, I feel like picking zero was a huge mistake especially. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
After that he played well imo | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:42 LpTraxamillion wrote: I only tuned in after it looked like zero had nearly been broken and had lost a bunch of drones. Could have GGd right there he probably had 5% equity to win. After that he played well imo Yes...he played well after he lost 5 drones at his 3rd for nothing to one zealot  Sadly that's not gonna work at an ASL level. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
What is this group so far? | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:47 EquilasH wrote: Only getting 3 cannons after scouting 3hatch hydra seems like a strange decision but I guess it's hard to know how much Zerg will commit. It's just wrong imo. He needs 5 cannons minimum unless he knows the exact drone count. He saw the hydra and there is no reason to see a hydra that early unless its for attacking. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:48 Sirris wrote: It's just wrong imo. He needs 5 cannons minimum unless he knows the exact drone count. Yeah, I've never seen a pro stay on 3 cannons after scouting 3Hatch Hydra before so it probably is just a mistake. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:48 BLinD-RawR wrote: Group of death, more like everyone is suffering from a lack of breath, get some O2 stat. Group of death from autoerotic asphyxiation | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:47 EquilasH wrote: Only getting 3 cannons after scouting 3hatch hydra seems like a strange decision but I guess it's hard to know how much Zerg will commit. He hardly even committed though, that was basic 9-7-3 into drone not all in. He should have had an extra cannon or 2 warping in just in case but he spent the money on the proxy. Most important thing though was he just failed to block the choke and he slipped hydras over the top of the wall so they could get much more attack surface on the cannons. He could have held with 3 cannon at that time if it wasn't for that. Wall goes down to hydra and they go into macro game | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:48 Sirris wrote: It's just wrong imo. He needs 5 cannons minimum unless he knows the exact drone count. He saw the hydra and there is no reason to see a hydra that early unless its for attacking. Yea he should have at the very least had them warping in as the 1st hydra arrived. Had he built the proxy building at that point or just the pylon? | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:52 LpTraxamillion wrote: He hardly even committed though, that was basic 9-7-3 into drone not all in. He should have had an extra cannon or 2 warping in just in case but he spent the money on the proxy. Most important thing though was he just failed to block the choke and he slipped hydras over the top of the wall so they could get much more attack surface on the cannons. He could have held with 3 cannon at that time if it wasn't for that. Wall goes down to hydra and they go into macro game The fact is you make 5 cannons period. I'm an old man. But even back in my day if we saw a hydra that early you make 5 cannons. Its possible you cancel the 5th cannon but damn. Of course Best is a million times better than me literally but i just don't understand seeing that hydra and not being scared to death. There is no reason to see a hydra there. It's way too early to just be for denying sair. Maybe that's what Best thought though. | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 19:53 LpTraxamillion wrote: Yea he should have at the very least had them warping in as the 1st hydra arrived. Had he built the proxy building at that point or just the pylon? Making a proxy building at that point means he missed the danger he was in. He didn't get the situation. I really think Best might have thought the hydra he saw was to deny sair damage. I think that was a huge mistake but I can understand that. It's easy for someone like me to say Best played bad. I can see the map and I'm much worse. But ...he did play bad | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
He will hold this I think but he will behind overall. Yes indeed bisu will hold but it slowed all of bisu's production. Zerg will be almost even in production. I don't think the game is even. I think Soma is quite ahead. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 17:28 sysen wrote: Bisu>Zero Soma>Best Soma>Bisu Zero>Best Bisu>Zero Just want to shout you out for your excellent prediction Zero played so much worse than what we would expect from him It's not decided yet but you had a good feel. | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:08 EquilasH wrote: I missed the first part of the game, why does Bisu have 3 cannons in his main? Because he's playing Soma. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
That's a huge commitment of minerals early on though if he's not facing Mutas or drops. Has to be a mistake. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
It's never good to have the third placed before the natural. To clarify because Bisu had his probe in the natural Soma made his third before his natural. Not a huge deal, but it's nice for P. Edit: It looks like it won't matter. Bisu's zealot pressure will not be in time to pressure the natural properly based on what Soma made. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
Didn't block his choke. He shouldve not send out any zealot. Bisu needed to stay at home with all zealots. Obviously its easy for me to say after seeing the game and everything they were doing. But I really feel like even in his situation. Not knowing anything...you need to be playing defensive. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:22 EquilasH wrote: I really thought Bisu was gonna give us some great PvZ today but this last game was just a great mindgame by Soma - I doubt Bisu expected more lings at his natural when he saw 8 lings chasing his Zealot. He still should've blocked his choke though. Exactly bro! As I said just before you posted. There is no reason for Bisu to move additional zealots. He needed to fully block his choke and play defensive. | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:24 LpTraxamillion wrote: Well, ez work for Soma tonight. Hopefully Zero can dig deep and pull this out Id like that for my bets yes, but I'd really love to see Bisu or Best move on. Especially Best although I love Bisu. I always hope to see Best finally win an ASL. Bisu has won enough. Best deserves just one at this point. He has to earn it though! | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:24 Sirris wrote: Exactly bro! As I said just before you posted. There is no reason for Bisu to move additional zealots. He needed to fully block his choke and play defensive. Yeah moving out with 2nd Zealot after seeing 8 lings felt like Bisu was just counting on Soma making mistakes on defending the Zealot pressure and taking a big risk at the same time. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:27 EquilasH wrote: Yeah moving out with 2nd Zealot after seeing 8 lings felt like Bisu was just counting on Soma making mistakes on defending the Zealot pressure and taking a big risk at the same time. Fully agree. I can see he wanted to force pressure on zerg to deny the time to make drones but he didn't prepare himself for the counter. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
Huge mistake from Best He will be behind now.Nevermind ...i didnt expect the 6 lings. I'm bad. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
This is still a very hard game for Best. Let's see the sair magic from Best. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Edit: I might've spoken too early. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
I don't understand why best pressured with less units. He could've just sat back and expanded more. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:42 EquilasH wrote: We're finally seeing some good PvZ from Protoss side. Edit: I might've spoken too early. I did the same. That one terrible move lost him the game. Best just needed to defend slowly that's it. | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
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TMNT
2733 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:43 Sirris wrote: I agree with Scan...Queen has been playing like shit honestly...compared to his ASL champion levels. In general the Protoss players just seem much worse in the matchup compared to earlier ASL's and even more so compared to KeSPA days. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:46 oxKnu wrote: Neither Bisu or Best deserve to reach Ro8. Hopefully Queen takes care of business from now on. I don't know about that sir. The person who wins the game deserves it. We will see. I voted for Zero/Queen btw | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:47 EquilasH wrote: In general the Protoss players just seem much worse in the matchup compared to earlier ASL's and even more so compared to KeSPA days. Except Mini last season;) Also Rain is looking fantastic so far this season. But on that note I also voted for both zergs. Because I have to kind of agree. It takes a special protoss to beat a talented zerg. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:47 Sirris wrote: Except Mini last season;) Also Rain is looking fantastic so far this season. Yeah, that's true but he didn't face that many Zergs on his run to the finals, did he? On March 09 2022 20:47 Sirris wrote: But on that note I also voted for both zergs. Because I have to kind of agree. It takes a special protoss to beat a talented zerg. That's also very true though. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:49 EquilasH wrote: Yeah, that's true but he didn't face that many Zergs on his run to the finals, did he? He did lol. I promise. And some very good ones. Like Queen He had special builds that exploited early timings while he skipped defense etc. I don't think its a permanent thing though. Even when I watched it I thought... there's no way he can make this work again. But he did at least another timeFor example his insane game where he opened 2 gate one base against I think Queen...he hid the zealots to the right of the overlord then slipped them to the ramp of the third. Mini played a beautiful game. A masterpiece. | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:46 oxKnu wrote: Neither Bisu or Best deserve to reach Ro8. Hopefully Queen takes care of business from now on. Let's wait for the rest of the games. Sofar I agree, but I really hope they will show their true skill in the coming games. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:49 Sirris wrote: He did lol. I promise. And some very good ones. Like Queen He had special builds that exploited early timings while he skipped defense etc. I don't think its a permanent thing though. Even when I watched it I thought... there's no way he can make this work again. But he did at least another timeFair enough :D Mini in general was playing super well last season though. I'm really looking forward to watch Rain play the matchup more this season. I might rewatch the Zero vs Mini series from last season because I barely remember it. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:53 EquilasH wrote: Fair enough :D Mini in general was playing super well last season though. I'm really looking forward to watch Rain play the matchup more this season. Rain has a lot to prove against the very best Zergs though. I don't know if it will go as well. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
Better than even. Queen is looking very strong this game. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:54 Sirris wrote: Rain has a lot to prove against the very best Zergs though. I don't know if it will go as well. For sure. So far he just beat Action in a Bo1 I believe. In general he looked amazing so far though, kinda like Mini last season. | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
The main distinction between these guys and Rain and Mini is that the latter are incredibly clutch in tournaments. If you watch regular spon-games, they're not that far off. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:56 oxKnu wrote: I disagree with the sentiment in this thread. The main distinction between these guys and Rain and Mini is that the latter are incredibly clutch in tournaments. If you watch regular spon-games, they're not that far off. Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game. | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:59 oxKnu wrote: Deer-in-the-headlights play. These games are always kind of sad to watch. Best is the deer right? | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:57 Sirris wrote: Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game.Rain/Mini vs Bisu/Best The previous point was that the second group severely under-plays in tournament settings. A case in point is today. Bisu regularly destroys those garbage builds from Soma online. | ||
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TMNT
2733 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:47 Sirris wrote: Except Mini last season;) Also Rain is looking fantastic so far this season. But on that note I also voted for both zergs. Because I have to kind of agree. It takes a special protoss to beat a talented zerg. Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
It's really hard for protoss nowadays. You need to be amazing to beat zerg consistently. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 TMNT wrote: Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. For sure, but I was not skewed. When it comes to the best zergs I always pick zerg over protoss. It's extremely hard for protoss to win against zerg. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:57 Sirris wrote: Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game.Best is one of the most succesfull players post Kespa ONLINE. He always has something like 60% winrate in all matchups, that worths a lot considering spongames are the thing that streamers get their living from. When at offline stage, this kind of horror happens. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 oxKnu wrote: Rain/Mini vs Bisu/Best The previous point was that the second group severely under-plays in tournament settings. A case in point is today. Bisu regularly destroys those garbage builds from Soma online. Ah yes. In that case I completely agree. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:03 whaski wrote: Best is one of the most succesfull players post Kespa ONLINE. He always has something like 60% winrate in all matchups, that worths a lot considering spongames are the thing that streamers get their living from. When at offline stage, this kind of horror happens. I agree , I mentioned earlier Best always chokes at bo8 or better. As to why...I think part of it is his inability to handle strong mental pressure. But that's just a guess. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
Both zergs move through. Felt it from the start. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 TMNT wrote: Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. I think you might have a point. It definitely looks more rough for Protoss nowadays but I still think part of it is that you need to have amazing multitasking to even up the matchup (thinking Bisu/Kal from KeSPA days). | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
I'll just say the real problem with PvZ is the blind guessing protoss has to do early game to just not die. Then factor that in with not over making cannons so you're not horribly behind macro wise. It's such a hard razor thin dance to do for protoss that they have to do so many games. The hardship is that protoss doesn't have any real scouting most of the time until the sair is out. That allows zerg to exploit protoss weakness early on. Most of the time that results in a loss from protoss of an economic disadvantage. That's not exactly cool or fair For example zerg goes 3 base with standard 9/7/3 he can fully rush to win the game..see the result then recover, kill the forge and gateway, tech, then play as normal. That's such an insane benefit in a very difficult mind game focused game like broodwar. It's kind of bullshit to be honest. To repeat the point: You shouldn't be able to possibly win early and then still recover just fine for a long game. That's wrong. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:17 whaski wrote: I would like to point out, that many protosses have been complaining these maps being extremely bad for pvz. I am too noob to understand how (IMO last season had even more z maps) but for example Mini has been really vocal on his stream maps being "zesagi". Yeah that was my thought as well in my above post, except I managed to give a horrible example of a map that was Protoss favoured (Medusa). Edit: Fighting Spirit always seemed decent for Protoss with an easy to secure 3rd base though but I wonder if a map like that is enough for Protoss? | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
These maps are pretty terrible for P in PvZ. Have to admit. Distinctly so. Keeping in mind that we've had Largo and Benzene in previous editions. These ones stand out even from that. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4116 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:10 Sirris wrote: Well I wanted one protoss to move through..but I voted for both zergs. As others have said...to beat zerg as protoss in the current age you have to be amazing. It's pretty unfair. I'll just say the real problem with PvZ is the blind guessing protoss has to do early game to just not die. Then factor that in with not over making cannons so you're not horribly behind macro wise. It's such a hard razor thin dance to do for protoss that they have to do so many games. The hardship is that protoss doesn't have any real scouting most of the time until the sair is out. That allows zerg to exploit protoss weakness early on. Most of the time that results in a loss from protoss of an economic disadvantage. That's not exactly cool or fair For example zerg goes 3 base with standard 9/7/3 he can fully rush to win the game..see the result then recover, kill the forge and gateway, tech, then play as normal. That's such an insane benefit in a very difficult mind game focused game like broodwar. It's kind of bullshit to be honest. To repeat the point: You shouldn't be able to possibly win early and then still recover just fine for a long game. That's wrong. yeah I also think that this is the main issue with the match and it makes it really hard to talk about balance and imbalance, because protoss has everything needed to go toe to toe with zerg, but on the other hand its so hard for protoss to pick the right tools | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:26 M2 wrote: yeah I also think that this is the main issue with the match and it makes it really hard to talk about balance and imbalance, because protoss has everything needed to go toe to toe with zerg, but on the other hand its so hard for protoss to pick the right tools Exactly. Zerg has the ability to build a few tech buildings or one upgrade then flip the game completely. Its so hard to adapt with limited information early on for protoss. If protoss magically counters all of zerg's plays perfect they will win easily. But its so hard to do after the various coin flips you have to take. | ||
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TMNT
2733 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:06 EquilasH wrote: I think you might have a point. It definitely looks more rough for Protoss nowadays but I still think part of it is that you need to have amazing multitasking to even up the matchup (thinking Bisu/Kal from KeSPA days). Amazing multitasking helps, but only to some extent. Just look at the first game on decider match. 9 Hatch 9 Pool, Protoss opens with Gateway. Die. You can have these 2 players playing that scenario over and over again and Queen will kill Bisu like 9 out of 10 times. PvZ is just brutal. No amount of micro can save Protoss from that. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Might be something map makers could experiment with. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:31 Garnet wrote: What are the results so far? This is the final match of the series and Queen is ahead one game. By series I mean all of the this round of 16. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:27 TMNT wrote: Amazing multitasking helps, but only to some extent. Just look at the first game on decider match. 9 Hatch 9 Pool, Protoss opens with Gateway. Die. You can have these 2 players playing that scenario over and over again and Queen will kill Bisu like 9 out of 10 times. PvZ is just brutal. No amount of micro can save Protoss from that. Yeah Zerg has like 10 times the early game tricks they can do in the matchup. | ||
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TMNT
2733 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:30 outscar wrote: Monopoly is such a bad map to be honest, not only little rush distance, there isn't enough room for army to move. It's double bad for protoss, terran can siege and don't worry about anything. Yeah it's a horrible map for Protoss. Basically if it's PvT you ban Monopoly. That's what every Protoss has done this tournament. But if it's PvZ, Allegro is even worse so you have to ban it. I don't know who said that the map pool this season is good for P. There's one good map for P, that is Revolver, which is of coursed banned by T and Z. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:31 EquilasH wrote: I just checked some of the popular maps from back in the day and apparently Katrina was heavily Protoss favored. I assume the in-base natural had something to do with it. Might be something map makers could experiment with. I think shuttle play was a big factor. Also zergs didnt know how to really crush everything yet Sair/reaver was common on this map to get a third. It wouldn't work now I would expect. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:34 Sirris wrote: I think shuttle play was a big factor. Also zergs didnt know how to really crush everything yet Sair/reaver was common on this map to get a third. It wouldn't work now I would expect.Yeah I remember Sair/Reaver suddenly stopped getting played. Part of it was because Zergs started doing burrow Hydra vs it I think. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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TMNT
2733 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:43 TMNT wrote: I have to say both Queen and Bisu don't look good today. Looks like the players who is less worse will advance. I agree but they would still easily beat 99.99% of players on earth Lets all remember that. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
just terrible game play from zero..he JUST NEEDED TO STOP THE THIRD OF PROTOSS but instead he threw his whole army away against a wall of cannons. So so bad. Seriously Zero higher me as your coach...christ. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Nevermind, he should be able to secure 3rd now. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:00 EquilasH wrote: I've never seen a Protoss get +2 armor before +2 attack before, is that actually a things? it's extremely common. i think snow popularized it. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:00 EquilasH wrote: I've never seen a Protoss get +2 armor before +2 attack before, is that actually a thing? Absolutely. Armor is much more effective against only hydras. The weapon upgrade will not help you nearly as much. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:01 whylessness wrote: it's extremely common. i think snow popularized it. That's pretty cool - I must've seen games with it before but somehow never noticed it. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Katkishka
United States649 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:03 Sirris wrote: Fucking garbage game from Zero. Seriously. Yeah Zero didn't play this very well at all. Personally I'm glad that Bisu won but he really needs to step up his play if he's going against a Zerg in the Ro8. | ||
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:31 EquilasH wrote: I just checked some of the popular maps from back in the day and apparently Katrina was heavily Protoss favored. I assume the in-base natural had something to do with it. Might be something map makers could experiment with. Transistor was an ASL map a few years back. It was naturally balanced in PvZ and the games were great on it. But the map-makers always sugarcoat Terrans, although they are the strongest race in the game. | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
I'm just glad Bisu somehow advanced. Let's just forget this group and the games. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
even if the level of games was not quite up to par with expectations.. GGs! | ||
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:04 EquilasH wrote: Yeah Zero didn't play this very well at all. Personally I'm glad that Bisu won but he really needs to step up his play if he's going against a Zerg in the Ro8. You guys are kidding ... Bisu is a monster and play on limits cutting every corner, Queen played very good. His pvz is top notch again. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:05 oxKnu wrote: Transistor was an ASL map a few years back. It was naturally balanced in PvZ and the games were great on it. But the map-makers always sugarcoat Terrans, although they are the strongest race in the game. Yeah I remember that map - one of my favorite maps ever in terms of the layout. It produced some great games for sure. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:06 Xeln4g4 wrote: You guys are kidding ... Bisu is a monster and play on limits cutting every corner, Queen played very good. His pvz is top notch again. I don't know man - he definitely played well in the last series but overall I expected more from Bisu's PvZ. It's probably just because I've followed him for so long so I might have unrealistic expectations for his PvZ. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
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TMNT
2733 Posts
I had some doubts about Queen before this round, based on his (lack of) streaming activities. Seems like it's justified. He looks more like the guy who had an 8 month break from BW more than Bisu. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
And yay! Bisu advanced! | ||
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:08 M3t4PhYzX wrote: ro8 pairings draw now right? or not? yes | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:07 EquilasH wrote: Yeah I remember that map - one of my favorite maps ever in terms of the layout. It produced some great games for sure. agreed it was a nice, clear breath of fresh air | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:06 Xeln4g4 wrote: You guys are kidding ... Bisu is a monster and play on limits cutting every corner, Queen played very good. His pvz is top notch again. Did you forget when zero threw away his army on a wall on cannons allowing Bisu to get into the game for no reason? Zero had every opportunity to win this game. You can hear it in Bisu's interview. He was shocked to win. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
nice  | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
However, the results are good, Soma is better than Queen right now and only having one protoss in the Ro8 would've been tragic. | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey731 Posts
No mirrors for the draw please! | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
oh shit... | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
no mirrors! | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey731 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:16 whylessness wrote: amazing draw!! no mirrors! Definetly | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Rain vs Soulkey is really gonna test Rain's skill though. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
soma (Z) vs (T) Rush = = = = = Action (Z) vs (T) Light JyJ (T) vs (P) Bisu | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:17 EquilasH wrote: These matchups all look great. Very excited for the Ro8. Rain vs Soma is really gonna test Rain's skill though. Yes sir. Great match ups all around. Except you meant Soma | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
great matchups! | ||
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TMNT
2733 Posts
And 3Ts in the semi finals I think. Rain is weakest at PvZ, and because Soulkey stomped Bisu and Mini on a regular basis, he's gonna 3-0 Rain. Light and Rush are clearly favored in TvZ against Action and Soma. JYJ vs Bisu may be close. Bisu probably needs to pull consecutive 12 Nexus Carrier games to win though. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8051 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:17 M3t4PhYzX wrote: Rain (P) vs (Z) Soulkey soma (Z) vs (T) Rush = = = = = Action (Z) vs (T) Light JyJ (T) vs (P) Bisu Thanks for writing this! Also , happy birthday M3t4PhYzX  | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:19 TMNT wrote: It's shaping up for a Light vs Soulkey final. And 3Ts in the semi finals I think. I think it will be Light vs Rain personally | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:18 M3t4PhYzX wrote: pretty damn sweet elimination bracket if you ask me great matchups! Happy birthday! | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:19 TMNT wrote: It's shaping up for a Light vs Soulkey final. And 3Ts in the semi finals I think. Yeah, my personal prediction would also be either Rain vs Light or Soulkey vs Light finals, depending on the result of the first Ro8 match. | ||
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TMNT
2733 Posts
If Rain practices like crazy maybe. But for the moment he looks like he's just chilling on stream. Unless he practices like crazy offstream. But I doubt that. And you know. Soulkey always "needmoney". Guy's gonna play out of his mind for that prize pool haha. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
I would not mind, considering the last time these two faced in a finals Light won. 2019 Korea StarCraft League Season 4 | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
I just think Soulkey knows more about the matchup and should be able to out-maneuver him on these maps. | ||
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[JXSA].Zergling
China186 Posts
= = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = Soulkey win rush Light win Bisu ------------------------------------------------- Soulkey Win Light | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
SK dodges ZvZ. Two epic TvZ. Bisu dodges PvZ. Rain and SK are my faves. Sad that one of them will be out, but at least one is assured of advancing! | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey731 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:25 BLinD-RawR wrote: I would not mind, considering the last time these two faced in a finals Light won. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/2019_Korea_StarCraft_League_Season_4 Oh I remember it well And I'd love to see it again. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:31 [JXSA].Zergling wrote: Rain (P) lose (Z) Soulkey soma (Z) LOSE (T) Rush Action (Z) lose (T) Light JyJ (T) lose (P) Bisu = = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = = = == = Soulkey win rush Light win Bisu ------------------------------------------------- Soulkey Win Light Id go 4 to 1 on those results not happening If only there was a legal booking agent for brood war bets lol.On another note, did you guys watch soulkeys games? He's definitely not a favorite against any match up. He was pretty lucky even in zvz wins. They were extremely close. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:19 prosatan wrote: Thanks for writing this! Also , happy birthday M3t4PhYzX no problem :3 and Thank You!  | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
cheers  | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:23 TMNT wrote: If Rain practices like crazy maybe. But for the moment he looks like he's just chilling on stream. Unless he practices like crazy offstream. But I doubt that. And you know. Soulkey always "needmoney". Guy's gonna play out of his mind for that prize pool haha. He needed money the last 2 seasons. Hmmm... how'd it go for him? Not saying Soulkey is a bad pick. Just not a pick I'd make. I don't think Soulkey will be in the finals.Regardless this ASL RO8 looks awesome. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
- - - - - Light vs JyJ would be a great semifinals lineup. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
And to add that Rain is busy coaching female streamers, Soma has wrist problems, Light is busy with his wedding and JyJ has such high lows when it comes to that. So I would go with Bisu vs Soulkey (But my heart wants to have Light win this ASL). | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:44 M3t4PhYzX wrote: Rain vs soma - - - - - Light vs JyJ would be a great semifinals lineup. This is very very possible. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
SoMa 2-3 Rush Action 1-3 Light JyJ 2-3 Bisu Rain 3-2 Rush Light 2-3 Bisu PvP finals? I think I love both players too much. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
Even when he was obviously dealing with that financial drama he still would pull out insane victories against the best. Still remember Larva sponsoring games of SK against Flash to steal hydra/lurk builds. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
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TMNT
2733 Posts
Honestly feels bad for the guy. He basically begged his fans during all the ASL interviews to not expect too much from him. Hope he changes his mind after some rest. Guy still gives amazing PvT. | ||
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angry_maia
314 Posts
On March 10 2022 01:10 TMNT wrote: Best just announced that this was his last ASL, citing his frustration with people making fun of him every time he goes out. Honestly feels bad for the guy. He basically begged his fans during all the ASL interviews to not expect too much from him. Hope he changes his mind after some rest. Guy still gives amazing PvT. He shouldn't take that to heart. I'm sure after he talks to some other pros he'll change his mind. The only reason he gets memed on is because everyone knows how good he is. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Don't listen to dumb people!!!! <3 <3 <3 | ||
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prosatan
Romania8051 Posts
안녕하세요 오늘 ASL 탈락하고왔네요 음 .. 그동안 대회참가하면서 오프의도재욱 대회의도재욱 소리들을때마다 잘해야지 잘해야지 하는마음뿐이었는데 최근에는 제가 온라인에서 잘해도 어차피 대회가면 진다 오프라인가면 진다하는 조롱글이 많아져서 좀 스트레스를 많이받네요 제가 스타를 잘하고싶고 대회를 잘하고싶어서 연습하고 노력하는게 남들에겐 조롱거리가 되는게 많은 생각이 들었습니다 대회에서 잘하고싶어서 온오프 가리지않고 참가할수있는 대회 다 참가했는데 그동안 어차피 계속 게임 해야할거 손목이 아픈것도 티를 안내려고했는데 이제는 좀 지치네요 저도 감정적인사람이라 마음이 변할수도있겠지만 오늘이 마지막 ASL이 될수도있을거같습니다 응원해주셔서 감사합니다 Google Translate: Hello, I've dropped out of ASL today. Ummm.. While participating in the tournament, every time I heard the voices of Offuido Jaewook, I was just thinking of whether I should do well or do well. Recently, there have been a lot of ridicule posts saying that even if I do well online, I lose if I go to the tournament anyway, so I get a little stressed out. I wanted to be a good star and compete well, so I thought a lot that practicing and trying would be a ridicule to others. I wanted to do well in the tournament, so I participated in all of the tournaments where I could participate regardless of whether it was on or off. I am an emotional person, so I may change my mind, but I think today might be the last ASL. Thank you for your support Source: https://www.youtube.com/c/도재욱TV/community Hope he'll change his mind... | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19240 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
SoMa 2-3 Rush Action 1-3 Light JyJ 2-3 Bisu | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19240 Posts
On March 10 2022 04:53 Piste wrote: Rain 0-3 SoulKey SoMa 2-3 Rush Action 1-3 Light JyJ 2-3 Bisu It's crazy to think Soma vs Rush is the most hype match of the ro8. Either player is championship caliber right now. | ||
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
On March 10 2022 03:02 prosatan wrote: Original Post: 안녕하세요 오늘 ASL 탈락하고왔네요 음 .. 그동안 대회참가하면서 오프의도재욱 대회의도재욱 소리들을때마다 잘해야지 잘해야지 하는마음뿐이었는데 최근에는 제가 온라인에서 잘해도 어차피 대회가면 진다 오프라인가면 진다하는 조롱글이 많아져서 좀 스트레스를 많이받네요 제가 스타를 잘하고싶고 대회를 잘하고싶어서 연습하고 노력하는게 남들에겐 조롱거리가 되는게 많은 생각이 들었습니다 대회에서 잘하고싶어서 온오프 가리지않고 참가할수있는 대회 다 참가했는데 그동안 어차피 계속 게임 해야할거 손목이 아픈것도 티를 안내려고했는데 이제는 좀 지치네요 저도 감정적인사람이라 마음이 변할수도있겠지만 오늘이 마지막 ASL이 될수도있을거같습니다 응원해주셔서 감사합니다 Google Translate: Hello, I've dropped out of ASL today. Ummm.. While participating in the tournament, every time I heard the voices of Offuido Jaewook, I was just thinking of whether I should do well or do well. Recently, there have been a lot of ridicule posts saying that even if I do well online, I lose if I go to the tournament anyway, so I get a little stressed out. I wanted to be a good star and compete well, so I thought a lot that practicing and trying would be a ridicule to others. I wanted to do well in the tournament, so I participated in all of the tournaments where I could participate regardless of whether it was on or off. I am an emotional person, so I may change my mind, but I think today might be the last ASL. Thank you for your support Source: https://www.youtube.com/c/도재욱TV/community Hope he'll change his mind...Ahh... I was so happy that Bisu advanced even though his play was pretty bad (but I truly believe his current highest form can beat anyone). But now this... makes me really sad. Why are these jerks doing this to Best?! Poor guy has been saying in the last few ASL interviews to the fans that "please do not expect much from him" etc, basically begging them to leave him alone. He tried but it got to him in the head even deeper as before. I'm disgusted by this behaviour of some so called "SC fans". What did Best ever do to them?... I really really hope he will somehow triumph and come back mentally stable and win an ASL. He is absolutely capable (and deserves it as well). He hasn't been in the top 10 (on sponbbang) the last few years for nothing... (and as I've seen top3 these last few months) GOGO BEST! | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
It's clear the expectations are getting to him and he doesn't have the nerves to handle that. Online seems to be more of his playing ground. By my estimation in online games he has been a Top4 pro for the longest time, even when Flash was active etc.. delivering big wins against everyone, no matter the race. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On March 10 2022 07:09 oxKnu wrote: I think it's good for him to not play ASL for awhile. It's clear the expectations are getting to him and he doesn't have the nerves to handle that. Online seems to be more of his playing ground. By my estimation in online games he has been a Top4 pro for the longest time, even when Flash was active etc.. delivering big wins against everyone, no matter the race. His KCM Race War games are so good, always cheer for him. Sad he chocked again | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19240 Posts
On March 10 2022 09:23 GoTuNk! wrote: His KCM Race War games are so good, always cheer for him. Sad he chocked again He didn’t even choke. Zero and Soma are better at PvZ. And the new mineral boosting along with these heavy early zergling attacks are a legit pain to deal with. On paper, this was a tough group he was never supposed to win. If anyone, Zero choked hard and looked completely out of form. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Probably the pressure getting to the players. Then again, PvZ is tough. So no surprise that Best and Bisu played rather poorly. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
On March 10 2022 10:00 BisuDagger wrote: He didn’t even choke. Zero and Soma are better at PvZ. And the new mineral boosting along with these heavy early zergling attacks are a legit pain to deal with. On paper, this was a tough group he was never supposed to win. If anyone, Zero choked hard and looked completely out of form. I dont get your comment at all. It doesnt matter if his opponent is better than him or not. Do you think soma outskilled him in their first game ?! While i agree that you need to be insanely skilled to do an hydra bust._, i dont see how Best didnt pull another "onstage Best flawless performance" | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
On March 10 2022 11:58 RKC wrote: Bisu's micro was off. Indeed, but its not like his decision making was good either lol. While Bisu always did compensate his poor decision making with insane multitasking all through his career, this time is clearly over. With nowadays skills, the dt drop that he tried on ZerO on the first game .. with these positions on this map, during the most obvious muta switch timing ever recorded on tape, that was quite mind boggling tbh... At this top level at least... Almost forgot: He did all of this after building, then cancelling a completely useless 3rd canon at his natural at a ridiculous timing Im not a Bisu hater though, just that were not in 2009 anymore and I would prefer to see someone else with a real shot into the RO8. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On March 10 2022 12:14 TornadoSteve wrote: Indeed, but its not like his decision making was good either lol. While Bisu always did compensate his poor decision making with insane multitasking all through his career, this time is clearly over. With nowadays skills, the dt drop that he tried on ZerO on the first game .. with these positions on this map, during the most obvious muta switch timing ever recorded on tape, that was quite mind boggling tbh... At this top level at least... Almost forgot: He did all of this after building, then cancelling a completely useless 3rd canon at his natural at a ridiculous timing Im not a Bisu hater though, just that were not in 2009 anymore and I would prefer to see someone else with a real shot into the RO8. How is his PvT lately? Probably better than chances than PvZ? Action is a beast. But he's not as tricky as soma or brutally solid like SK. So the draw seems to work out kindly for Bisu. Is there a more deserving player? Maybe mini. JD had a rare JvZ off-day but otherwise looks to be growing in strength and shaking off the rust. So yes, nostalgia aside, RO8 could've been slightly more stacked. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 10 2022 05:13 BisuDagger wrote: It's crazy to think Soma vs Rush is the most hype match of the ro8. Either player is championship caliber right now. Looking forward to it as well but more interested in how Rain will do against Soulkey. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4195 Posts
On March 10 2022 03:02 prosatan wrote: Original Post: 안녕하세요 오늘 ASL 탈락하고왔네요 음 .. 그동안 대회참가하면서 오프의도재욱 대회의도재욱 소리들을때마다 잘해야지 잘해야지 하는마음뿐이었는데 최근에는 제가 온라인에서 잘해도 어차피 대회가면 진다 오프라인가면 진다하는 조롱글이 많아져서 좀 스트레스를 많이받네요 제가 스타를 잘하고싶고 대회를 잘하고싶어서 연습하고 노력하는게 남들에겐 조롱거리가 되는게 많은 생각이 들었습니다 대회에서 잘하고싶어서 온오프 가리지않고 참가할수있는 대회 다 참가했는데 그동안 어차피 계속 게임 해야할거 손목이 아픈것도 티를 안내려고했는데 이제는 좀 지치네요 저도 감정적인사람이라 마음이 변할수도있겠지만 오늘이 마지막 ASL이 될수도있을거같습니다 응원해주셔서 감사합니다 Google Translate: Hello, I've dropped out of ASL today. Ummm.. While participating in the tournament, every time I heard the voices of Offuido Jaewook, I was just thinking of whether I should do well or do well. Recently, there have been a lot of ridicule posts saying that even if I do well online, I lose if I go to the tournament anyway, so I get a little stressed out. I wanted to be a good star and compete well, so I thought a lot that practicing and trying would be a ridicule to others. I wanted to do well in the tournament, so I participated in all of the tournaments where I could participate regardless of whether it was on or off. I am an emotional person, so I may change my mind, but I think today might be the last ASL. Thank you for your support Source: https://www.youtube.com/c/도재욱TV/community Hope he'll change his mind...that's just fucking ridiculous.. what is wrong with these. people..? really hope he reconsiders. always liked to see him play. | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey731 Posts
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Szinkler
Hungary394 Posts
On March 10 2022 12:14 TornadoSteve wrote: Indeed, but its not like his decision making was good either lol. While Bisu always did compensate his poor decision making with insane multitasking all through his career, this time is clearly over. With nowadays skills, the dt drop that he tried on ZerO on the first game .. with these positions on this map, during the most obvious muta switch timing ever recorded on tape, that was quite mind boggling tbh... At this top level at least... Almost forgot: He did all of this after building, then cancelling a completely useless 3rd canon at his natural at a ridiculous timing Im not a Bisu hater though, just that were not in 2009 anymore and I would prefer to see someone else with a real shot into the RO8. Do you watch his stream? I guess not really. He shows absolutely fantastic games there. Insane multitasking as you mentioned. This was a bad performance yesterday everyone sees that, but he is still capable of very high level gameplay. While watching at least 40-50 hours of his stream since he came back I can honestly say his top games are not ro8 level but championship level for sure. (but of course maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about . Btw problem is that his play is not that stable. When he plays at his top he is #1-3 on sponbbang but he can play pretty poorly and sometimes not be able to reach top 10) | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
On March 10 2022 14:00 RKC wrote: How is his PvT lately? Probably better than chances than PvZ? Action is a beast. But he's not as tricky as soma or brutally solid like SK. So the draw seems to work out kindly for Bisu. Is there a more deserving player? Maybe mini. JD had a rare JvZ off-day but otherwise looks to be growing in strength and shaking off the rust. So yes, nostalgia aside, RO8 could've been slightly more stacked. Mini sOrry or even the 2 seeded z, even if they look out of shape atm, all had a realistic shot to win the whole thing. Bisu, well, no. Hope he can prove me wrong though, and I will be rooting for him anyway | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
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whylessness
United States376 Posts
anyway, the offline games will always be more entertaining for me to watch than kcm et al. i think the comparison is kind of stupid. like, mini vs. zero would've been completely different online. but instead, watching mini shitstomp zero, and watching the once invincible (in pvz) zero fall apart until he was a completely broken mess was... just too good. so yeah, ASL games will always be special, if only because of the financial stakes and how seriously the players take the matches. it's a silly comparison. | ||
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LpTraxamillion
265 Posts
On March 11 2022 07:40 whylessness wrote: the stakes are higher in ASL and the games are almost always more dramatic, even if the players aren't showing their best macro/micro/tactics. and the casting of artosis and tasteless adds to the drama. sometimes you get lucky and there are incredible bo1 games in ASL, like that time brain (?) took out soulkey with dt/corsair. what an insane upset that was... anyway, the offline games will always be more entertaining for me to watch than kcm et al. i think the comparison is kind of stupid. like, mini vs. zero would've been completely different online. but instead, watching mini shitstomp zero, and watching the once invincible (in pvz) zero fall apart until he was a completely broken mess was... just too good. so yeah, ASL games will always be special, if only because of the financial stakes and how seriously the players take the matches. it's a silly comparison. Agreed, these ASL matches really are the best. I hope they keep it going for years to come. Hard to imagine what the scene would look like without ASL these last 7-8 years or whatever. SC has come so far since 2009 | ||
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oxKnu
1180 Posts
On March 11 2022 07:40 whylessness wrote: the stakes are higher in ASL and the games are almost always more dramatic, even if the players aren't showing their best macro/micro/tactics. and the casting of artosis and tasteless adds to the drama. sometimes you get lucky and there are incredible bo1 games in ASL, like that time brain (?) took out soulkey with dt/corsair. what an insane upset that was... anyway, the offline games will always be more entertaining for me to watch than kcm et al. i think the comparison is kind of stupid. like, mini vs. zero would've been completely different online. but instead, watching mini shitstomp zero, and watching the once invincible (in pvz) zero fall apart until he was a completely broken mess was... just too good. so yeah, ASL games will always be special, if only because of the financial stakes and how seriously the players take the matches. it's a silly comparison. Aside from the Top1 prize in ASL, most of the top pros make way more from online spon-games. It's not even close. It's how they make a living. And cherry picking two series from 2 years apart is one weak-ass argument if I've ever read one. It's nice to have a prestigious tournament running but it's not the end all be all. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On March 11 2022 18:31 LpTraxamillion wrote: Agreed, these ASL matches really are the best. I hope they keep it going for years to come. Hard to imagine what the scene would look like without ASL these last 7-8 years or whatever. SC has come so far since 2009 I would argue that KCM has by far the best games post Kespa. Also the new starcraft university- teamleague has produced some incredible games. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1689 Posts
On March 10 2022 04:53 Piste wrote: Rain 0-3 SoulKey SoMa 2-3 Rush Action 1-3 Light JyJ 2-3 Bisu the disrespect on Rain Rain ASL Season 13 Champion | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1689 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:25 BLinD-RawR wrote: I would not mind, considering the last time these two faced in a finals Light won. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/2019_Korea_StarCraft_League_Season_4 Rain should have won that finals Also I cant believe how much hate there is on Bisu for his play tonight; yes it wasnt the cleanest but SOMA and QUEEN do NOT let you play your gameplan, they often make protoss's look silly and off-put, I thought his play overall was great when seeing how much Soma and Queen always strongly dictate the flow of their ZvPs For Bisu to go 3-1 vs Queen was amazing to see | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25347 Posts
On March 12 2022 08:20 ShowTheLights wrote: Rain should have won that finals Also I cant believe how much hate there is on Bisu for his play tonight; yes it wasnt the cleanest but SOMA and QUEEN do NOT let you play your gameplan, they often make protoss's look silly and off-put, I thought his play overall was great when seeing how much Soma and Queen always strongly dictate the flow of their ZvPs For Bisu to go 3-1 vs Queen was amazing to see It’s strange, I’ve heard people say they’d like to see Mini in the bracket. Mini’s great, he played pretty bloody badly. Bisu’s historically greater and he played pretty damn OK/at times sloppily. We’ve seen glimpses of him here and there. The Ro8 bracket is really good though, I’m enjoying how the matchups are spread out. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 12 2022 07:48 ShowTheLights wrote: the disrespect on Rain Rain ASL Season 13 Champion I picked Rain to win vs Soulkey. Maybe not but he definitely won't lose 3-0. I think Rain and Light are the favorites personally. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1035 Posts
sk 18% light 16% jyj 15% rain 14% rush soma 12% bisu 7% action 6% | ||
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v1p3r52
New Zealand182 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:39 outscar wrote: Bisu is god! What the hell oO . Someone gifted me TL+ for this. I'm gonna say this again and again: BISU IS GOD! Can't wait for ro8. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Unfortunate that zero lost, but glad that Bisu made it. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4102 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 20 2022 08:41 Magic Powers wrote: I wouldn't say Queen "helped" Bisu, that doesn't seem right. It looks like a mistake with the power of either hindsight or complete map vision, but without any of that he made a very understandable play that happened to fail. I was referring to how some posters were phrasing it, as if Zero "helped" Bisu. From Zero's perspective, he saw an opportunity and figured he had enough hydras to bust Bisu's front so he took it. Did he misjudge? sure, but it's fairly easy to say he did after the fact. The bust was closer than it seems. Alternatively, he could sit back and try for the late late game, but Bisu's PvZ as wacky as its been this group is still pretty formidable. | ||
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