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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:54 Sirris wrote: Rain has a lot to prove against the very best Zergs though. I don't know if it will go as well. For sure. So far he just beat Action in a Bo1 I believe. In general he looked amazing so far though, kinda like Mini last season. | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
The main distinction between these guys and Rain and Mini is that the latter are incredibly clutch in tournaments. If you watch regular spon-games, they're not that far off. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:56 oxKnu wrote: I disagree with the sentiment in this thread. The main distinction between these guys and Rain and Mini is that the latter are incredibly clutch in tournaments. If you watch regular spon-games, they're not that far off. Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely  That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game. | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:59 oxKnu wrote: Deer-in-the-headlights play. These games are always kind of sad to watch. Best is the deer right? | ||
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oxKnu
1262 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:57 Sirris wrote: Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game.Rain/Mini vs Bisu/Best The previous point was that the second group severely under-plays in tournament settings. A case in point is today. Bisu regularly destroys those garbage builds from Soma online. | ||
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TMNT
3247 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:47 Sirris wrote: Except Mini last season;) Also Rain is looking fantastic so far this season. But on that note I also voted for both zergs. Because I have to kind of agree. It takes a special protoss to beat a talented zerg. Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
 It's really hard for protoss nowadays. You need to be amazing to beat zerg consistently. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 TMNT wrote: Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. For sure, but I was not skewed. When it comes to the best zergs I always pick zerg over protoss. It's extremely hard for protoss to win against zerg. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On March 09 2022 20:57 Sirris wrote: Sorry man but I don't understand what your main point is. Not trying to be rude. I really just don't understand your main point. Maybe you're saying that Rain and Mini preform much better in ASL than in spon matches? If that's the case then I would say absolutely That's why I give Rain much more credit in RO 8 than in any given match. Rain will do much better in a series than in a single game.Best is one of the most succesfull players post Kespa ONLINE. He always has something like 60% winrate in all matchups, that worths a lot considering spongames are the thing that streamers get their living from. When at offline stage, this kind of horror happens. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 oxKnu wrote: Rain/Mini vs Bisu/Best The previous point was that the second group severely under-plays in tournament settings. A case in point is today. Bisu regularly destroys those garbage builds from Soma online. Ah yes. In that case I completely agree. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:03 whaski wrote: Best is one of the most succesfull players post Kespa ONLINE. He always has something like 60% winrate in all matchups, that worths a lot considering spongames are the thing that streamers get their living from. When at offline stage, this kind of horror happens. I agree , I mentioned earlier Best always chokes at bo8 or better. As to why...I think part of it is his inability to handle strong mental pressure. But that's just a guess. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
Both zergs move through. Felt it from the start. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:00 TMNT wrote: Mini 4-1 Queen in 2 consecutive seasons skewed people's opinion on PvZ a little bit, including me. He just planned for those series very well, plus luck was also on his side a little bit. Truthfully he's not THAT much better than Queen. His overall record against other Zergs like Hero or Soulkey is not that great, losing to them regularly. Overall I think Zerg has figured out his match up to make it more imba, or favored towards the Zerg, than the old days. Protoss really has no answer. I think you might have a point. It definitely looks more rough for Protoss nowadays but I still think part of it is that you need to have amazing multitasking to even up the matchup (thinking Bisu/Kal from KeSPA days). | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
I'll just say the real problem with PvZ is the blind guessing protoss has to do early game to just not die. Then factor that in with not over making cannons so you're not horribly behind macro wise. It's such a hard razor thin dance to do for protoss that they have to do so many games. The hardship is that protoss doesn't have any real scouting most of the time until the sair is out. That allows zerg to exploit protoss weakness early on. Most of the time that results in a loss from protoss of an economic disadvantage. That's not exactly cool or fair For example zerg goes 3 base with standard 9/7/3 he can fully rush to win the game..see the result then recover, kill the forge and gateway, tech, then play as normal. That's such an insane benefit in a very difficult mind game focused game like broodwar. It's kind of bullshit to be honest. To repeat the point: You shouldn't be able to possibly win early and then still recover just fine for a long game. That's wrong. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 09 2022 21:17 whaski wrote: I would like to point out, that many protosses have been complaining these maps being extremely bad for pvz. I am too noob to understand how (IMO last season had even more z maps) but for example Mini has been really vocal on his stream maps being "zesagi". Yeah that was my thought as well in my above post, except I managed to give a horrible example of a map that was Protoss favoured (Medusa). Edit: Fighting Spirit always seemed decent for Protoss with an easy to secure 3rd base though but I wonder if a map like that is enough for Protoss? | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
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