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What really causes confusion is that Rus_Brain seems to state that as long as Favorit could prove he's a Russian by providing a passport, he would be eligble to play in the tournament. Even if Favorit got kicked out of the tournament for not having presented it in time, it could still be debated whether or not he should be able to challenge the winner of the tournament granted he showed a passport before the games take place.
All discussions about being a hacker, a noob, how we preceive Favorit's nationality etc. is honestly irrelevant compared to that.
Either he's banned for not being Russian, which seems to have been the first argument. Or he's banned because of the Jeez Weekly incident still being enforced. Or that he's been a hacker, for that matter.
But unless Rus_Brain clears this up properly (maybe with the help of Gecko/Jealous, in order to communicate it better), all we have are speculations and a discussion that has gone too far.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
No, I consider hacking a serious offense.
My point is that he wouldn't have been allowed in the tournament if he was living on the Red Square. Rightly so, but then why bring all the nationalty/region stuff into it? It's irrelevant as he's not allowed in the tournament because he has a history of hacking and, apparently, has behaved poorly recently. Which is completely fine.
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Russian Federation1894 Posts
Sec I
is Russia his region or EU? Any single one he chooses, provided that he is eligible by nationality. So far the only reference to Favorit's "Russian citizenship" is his account @ TL (which I could have created stating somewhat Nauru citizenship). All other references indicate he is either German or Swedish. The only known proof of citizenship known to me is a passport copy.
I have told Favorit that revealing the passport will activate a conundrum created by himself back in February when he objected to reveal his personal information under the GDPR. The loophole is, either he provides the passport copy to prove his citizenship now, confirming he lied back then. Or he lies he is Russian now, by proving nothing. So I offered to just step aside. To the contary Favorit decided to register and play in RU quali covered by Russian VPN or whatever deluding Yoda's basic checks whether battle.net identifies your profile as "RUS".
Sec II
There is a rulebook, written long before this discussion:Sec 5.a. Using any tool to give an unfair advantage over other players is strictly forbidden and may result in cancellation of everything due to you There are people here trying to "interpret" the rules, or object to Testie, or Selector past reputation. Although I can see neither Testie nor Selector taking part in this tournament, for such people I have simplified the reason for Favorit's ban to be just personal, which was much easily accepted.
Let me reiterateEither he's banned for not being Russian, which seems to have been the first argument. Or he's banned because of the Jeez Weekly incident still being enforced. Or that he's been a hacker, for that matter. All fit. Choose any which is easier for your understanding.
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On July 04 2019 01:01 TaardadAiel wrote:
No, I consider hacking a serious offense.
My point is that he wouldn't have been allowed in the tournament if he was living on the Red Square. Rightly so, but then why bring all the nationalty/region stuff into it? It's irrelevant as he's not allowed in the tournament because he has a history of hacking and, apparently, has behaved poorly recently. Which is completely fine.
Because thats the question that was raised. It's a two-step checking process basically. If he isn't eligible in the first place for the russian qualifier, there is no need to even check if he COULD play given his history. And i commented solely on the nationality question because thats the matter i can say something about with confidence.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
It baffles me, but if it is like that, then it's completely innocent.
My suggestion is that the two-step process should operate with checking for offenses first. The community is not that big, people usually have reputations.
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EDIT: Made a post but a lot happened while I was writing it. No longer necessary.
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On July 04 2019 00:55 Incomplete..ReV wrote:
What really causes confusion is that Rus_Brain seems to state that as long as Favorit could prove he's a Russian by providing a passport, he would be eligble to play in the tournament. Even if Favorit got kicked out of the tournament for not having presented it in time, it could still be debated whether or not he should be able to challenge the winner of the tournament granted he showed a passport before the games take place.
All discussions about being a hacker, a noob, how we preceive Favorit's nationality etc. is honestly irrelevant compared to that.
Either he's banned for not being Russian, which seems to have been the first argument. Or he's banned because of the Jeez Weekly incident still being enforced. Or that he's been a hacker, for that matter.
But unless Rus_Brain clears this up properly (maybe with the help of Gecko/Jealous, in order to communicate it better), all we have are speculations and a discussion that has gone too far.
Brain's questions are more amusing if left untouched.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2019 22:28 Q~Bert wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 15:38 iRk-AGge wrote: On July 03 2019 05:44 Q~Bert wrote:
Dude, who cares? You aren't even good at this game and have zero chance of qualifying..
Also, you're a hacker and you lag. So players that arent top level shouldnt be able to at least try their chances? Tell me then why you Yaj was trying too qualify in the NA qualifiers? And please tell us how it went!On July 03 2019 06:05 GeckoXp wrote:
There's a reason not many Germans like him. This guy already got too much attention. See qbert's post. Usiing Q~berts (aka Yaj) post as an example of a person who doesnt like Favorit. lmao, Yaj, the guy who flames everyone, gets banned everywhere and is a total douchebag in genaral.Players that aren't top level shouldn't post their grievances day after day considering no one else cares, they aren't missed, and ultimately their effort will be in vain when they will not progress to the next round. I played in the NA qualifers because I am not a shady hacker with a terrible past and do not have residency issues? What was your point lol? And I lost the first week to back to back ZvZs and I lost the second week to back to back ZvZs. I had only one MU in the bracket outside of ZvZ and that was a ZvP vs your boy iRk-Tim whom I slaughtered. Thanks for asking! And I don't flame everyone. You're a nice fella - I have never flamed you. I have never said how pathetic it is that a man in his 30s takes such pride in being an unpaid manager of a team of a video game. I have never said how cringeworthy and douchey it may come off that a dude in man bun would stream their trash 1500 mmr game play with their shirt off. I have never said how creepy it is that you type hearts to every other dude in chat on a daily basis. See? I have my boundaries. User was temp banned for this post.
I rest my case! <3 kisses and hugs!
+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2019 23:54 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 16:56 Hatchet_man wrote:On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
And since Favorit last represented Germany as a sc player when he was 20 (early 2008), wich sports rules should be applied on him?
During BSL6 I asked Favorit about which country he wants to represent in ladder. He chose Germany. And was counted German for the BSL6 Nation Wars rankings. LOL. OH NO YOU DIDN'T @ Agge @ Favorit. @Taardiel:i don't know how you interpreted this whole scenario here, but the point i tried to stress is that I think favorite is not eligible for rus qualifiers because he belongs in the rus qualifier. In my pov, thats the main argument. Now, for clarification: i am on staff for the eu region only. Decision was made by Brain and Yoda. That means i gave my personal opinion on the matter [if favorite] is eligible to play in the rus qualifiers. I didn't talk at all about the question if he could play with regards to the hacking history in the first place. It's not important either. Question of why favorite can't play in rus qualifiers is a question of nationality/which region fits for him. He can't because his region is europe. Question if he can play in europe is a question of: do we allow an ex-hacker into the tour. Answer is no. Thats my view on it.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 04 2019 00:38 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 00:21 TaardadAiel wrote:On July 03 2019 23:54 Cele wrote:On July 03 2019 16:56 Hatchet_man wrote:On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
And since Favorit last represented Germany as a sc player when he was 20 (early 2008), wich sports rules should be applied on him?
During BSL6 I asked Favorit about which country he wants to represent in ladder. He chose Germany. And was counted German for the BSL6 Nation Wars rankings. LOL. OH NO YOU DIDN'T @ Agge @ Favorit. @Taardiel:i don't know how you interpreted this whole scenario here, but the point i tried to stress is that I think favorite is not eligible for rus qualifiers because he belongs in the rus qualifier. In my pov, thats the main argument. Now, for clarification: i am on staff for the eu region only. Decision was made by Brain and Yoda. That means i gave my personal opinion on the matter [if favorite] is eligible to play in the rus qualifiers. I didn't talk at all about the question if he could play with regards to the hacking history in the first place. It's not important either. Question of why favorite can't play in rus qualifiers is a question of nationality/which region fits for him. He can't because his region is europe. Question if he can play in europe is a question of: do we allow an ex-hacker into the tour. Answer is no. Thats my view on it. This is even more confusing. Assuming he's "clear" now and could apply, is Russia his region or EU? You seem to contradict yourself, or that's what I see at least. First you said he belongs in the Russian qualifier, then you say his region is Europe. My point is that this whole nationality debate is preface for him having a poor reputation for whatever reason. Which I'm fine with, plus I know nothing of the guy. He's being fairly mannered in this particular thread, so props to him I'd say. It just leaves a sour taste - say he does not belong in the tournament because he has bad history and be done with it. Other arguments don't hold too well under scrutiny so far. That's the impression I got. Picture could be completely different with more information. Nope, i said in my first post here on the subject that i consider favorite/zarrr as a player who is -technically- eligible to play in the EU region. By exclusion he is therefore not eligible to play in the RUS region. My points tl:dr: -he was always considered a german player in the past, playing for german clans, writing in german forums (secondary argument if you will) - he played for the German National Broodwar Team in the past. - he was counted as German in BSL 6. The wiki lists him as german player. As we learned from hatchet_man above, he himself did choose so. (primary argument) - additionaly he currently resides in Sweden, he owns a dual german and russian citizenship and did not [statement by Rus_Brain] participate in a Moscow Lan yet. + Show Spoiler +Basically all the big Lans are held in Moscow, so thats the same as saying he never attended a russian offline event. Based on that i see no reason at all to even consider him eligible for the russian qualifier. And that was the initial point asked here to which i responded. The question why he was banned from the EU qualifier is a different question to me and was raised only afterwards: On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
Let's use German Athletics Federation as an example when it comes to cheating in sports. A german athlete that tests positive with a banned substance in his/her body is banned from all competition for 2 years, then he/she can start competing again. In sweden we have a 4 year ban and the person can never compete professional again. In USA there are f.e american football players, sprinters and baseball players who get caught with steroids in their body and still only get 6-18 months ban before they can start competeting on pro level again. In Russia the government deny deny deny eventho 43 athletes are sanctioned from the winter olympics 2018, and an ongoing investigation of proclaimed forged documents of drugtests of athletes for the summer olympics in 2020. (Thanks Germany for the investigation)
Favorit on the other hand is banned for life if caught hacking 2008?
There are numerous former players who got caught hacking in their early ages and still got to keep competing for years and years without the community organizers having anything against it, for example, Testie
[relevant part marked by me] And that hackers, even if well in the past would not be allowed into the EU qualifier was said very clearly communicated in the OP for the EU qualifierQuote from the rule section: "2.Right of Admission (II): The administration will not accept the entry of any known hacker or cheater, regardless of when he/she/it was caught breaking the rules. The same logic is applied to known abusers and trolls."
Once again you have totally ignored to reading my posts and everyone elses for that matter. But it's okey, Your using "my pov and imo" instead of reading what everyone is writing. Then you wouldve seen why he wasnt allowed to play in the rus qualifiers.
+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On July 04 2019 01:05 Rus_Brain wrote:
Sec I
[QUOTE] is Russia his region or EU?Any single one he chooses, provided that he is eligible by nationality. So far the only reference to Favorit's "Russian citizenship" is his account @ TL (which I could have created stating somewhat Nauru citizenship). All other references indicate he is either German or Swedish. The only known proof of citizenship known to me is a passport copy.
I have told Favorit that revealing the passport will activate a conundrum created by himself back in February when he objected to reveal his personal information under the GDPR. The loophole is, either he provides the passport copy to prove his citizenship now, confirming he lied back then. Or he lies he is Russian now, by proving nothing. So I offered to just step aside. To the contary Favorit decided to register and play in RU quali covered by Russian VPN or whatever deluding Yoda's basic checks whether battle.net identifies your profile as "RUS".
Sec II
There is a [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/12VtbZvRWnBni_Mb9hACx_aqxKWu_XJYbyedmYpFYnnk/edit]rulebook[/url], written long before this discussion:[QUOTE]Sec 5.a. Using any tool to give an unfair advantage over other players is strictly forbidden and may result in cancellation of everything due to you[/QUOTE]There are people here trying to "interpret" the rules, or object to Testie, or Selector past reputation. Although I can see neither Testie nor Selector taking part in this tournament, for such people I have simplified the reason for Favorit's ban to be just personal, which was much easily accepted.
Let me reiterate[QUOTE]Either he's banned for not being Russian, which seems to have been the first argument. Or he's banned because of the Jeez Weekly incident still being enforced. Or that he's been a hacker, for that matter. [/QUOTE]All fits. Choose any which is easier for your understanding.[/QUOTE]
Finally a serious answer from the organizer and person behind the decision. Now we can all leave this whole debate and get on with our lives. Still cheering for this event to be a success, and wish you organizers all the best in the coming fall and with the final event in moscow. <3
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On July 03 2019 21:41 iRk-AGge wrote:
Well guess what, Testie, Trek, Selector, all known hackers, have participated in gaming events all over the world, even after getting caught hacking. Testie even got invited to Korea.
And guess what, at least Testie and Selector (and several others) misused the trust others put in them with a second chance and hacked several times again after it. So why don't we learn anything from the past and just ban ex-hackers from competing once and for all? And no, it being "unfair", is not a legit reason. No one is preventing ex-hackers from playing the game at all, but they should be banned from competing. Especially considering that it is just a video game and you can just step away from it, without any real life implications. There has never come anything good from letting hackers back into the competetive scene.
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Rus_Brain events always have the best drama <3
this is so much fun to read. Thanks!
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Russian Federation249 Posts
On July 04 2019 01:05 Rus_Brain wrote:
To the contary Favorit decided to register and play in RU quali covered by Russian VPN or whatever deluding Yoda's basic checks whether battle.net identifies your profile as "RUS".
This is wrong assumption. His profile considered Russian because it was created in Russia. Battle.net doesn't change your location immediately and I even have a feeling that it never changes location.
From what I know, kogeT lives in Denmark, but battle.net still shows POL for him. Jerry lives in UK but has KOR location. I can remember a lot of examples.
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I logged in my 2nd account(russian gave me one as a present on remaster release date) and it shows my location is RUS.
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Russian Federation1894 Posts
@Hatchet_man in any case not relevant how the "RUS" location was achieved.
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[QUOTE]On July 04 2019 02:30 iRk-AGge wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2019 22:28 Q~Bert wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 15:38 iRk-AGge wrote: On July 03 2019 05:44 Q~Bert wrote:
Dude, who cares? You aren't even good at this game and have zero chance of qualifying..
Also, you're a hacker and you lag. So players that arent top level shouldnt be able to at least try their chances? Tell me then why you Yaj was trying too qualify in the NA qualifiers? And please tell us how it went!On July 03 2019 06:05 GeckoXp wrote:
There's a reason not many Germans like him. This guy already got too much attention. See qbert's post. Usiing Q~berts (aka Yaj) post as an example of a person who doesnt like Favorit. lmao, Yaj, the guy who flames everyone, gets banned everywhere and is a total douchebag in genaral.Players that aren't top level shouldn't post their grievances day after day considering no one else cares, they aren't missed, and ultimately their effort will be in vain when they will not progress to the next round. I played in the NA qualifers because I am not a shady hacker with a terrible past and do not have residency issues? What was your point lol? And I lost the first week to back to back ZvZs and I lost the second week to back to back ZvZs. I had only one MU in the bracket outside of ZvZ and that was a ZvP vs your boy iRk-Tim whom I slaughtered. Thanks for asking! And I don't flame everyone. You're a nice fella - I have never flamed you. I have never said how pathetic it is that a man in his 30s takes such pride in being an unpaid manager of a team of a video game. I have never said how cringeworthy and douchey it may come off that a dude in man bun would stream their trash 1500 mmr game play with their shirt off. I have never said how creepy it is that you type hearts to every other dude in chat on a daily basis. See? I have my boundaries. User was temp banned for this post.
I rest my case! <3 kisses and hugs!
+ Show Spoiler +On July 03 2019 23:54 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 16:56 Hatchet_man wrote:On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
And since Favorit last represented Germany as a sc player when he was 20 (early 2008), wich sports rules should be applied on him?
During BSL6 I asked Favorit about which country he wants to represent in ladder. He chose Germany. And was counted German for the BSL6 Nation Wars rankings. LOL. OH NO YOU DIDN'T @ Agge @ Favorit. @Taardiel:i don't know how you interpreted this whole scenario here, but the point i tried to stress is that I think favorite is not eligible for rus qualifiers because he belongs in the rus qualifier. In my pov, thats the main argument. Now, for clarification: i am on staff for the eu region only. Decision was made by Brain and Yoda. That means i gave my personal opinion on the matter [if favorite] is eligible to play in the rus qualifiers. I didn't talk at all about the question if he could play with regards to the hacking history in the first place. It's not important either. Question of why favorite can't play in rus qualifiers is a question of nationality/which region fits for him. He can't because his region is europe. Question if he can play in europe is a question of: do we allow an ex-hacker into the tour. Answer is no. Thats my view on it.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 04 2019 00:38 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 00:21 TaardadAiel wrote:On July 03 2019 23:54 Cele wrote:On July 03 2019 16:56 Hatchet_man wrote:On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
And since Favorit last represented Germany as a sc player when he was 20 (early 2008), wich sports rules should be applied on him?
During BSL6 I asked Favorit about which country he wants to represent in ladder. He chose Germany. And was counted German for the BSL6 Nation Wars rankings. LOL. OH NO YOU DIDN'T @ Agge @ Favorit. @Taardiel:i don't know how you interpreted this whole scenario here, but the point i tried to stress is that I think favorite is not eligible for rus qualifiers because he belongs in the rus qualifier. In my pov, thats the main argument. Now, for clarification: i am on staff for the eu region only. Decision was made by Brain and Yoda. That means i gave my personal opinion on the matter [if favorite] is eligible to play in the rus qualifiers. I didn't talk at all about the question if he could play with regards to the hacking history in the first place. It's not important either. Question of why favorite can't play in rus qualifiers is a question of nationality/which region fits for him. He can't because his region is europe. Question if he can play in europe is a question of: do we allow an ex-hacker into the tour. Answer is no. Thats my view on it. This is even more confusing. Assuming he's "clear" now and could apply, is Russia his region or EU? You seem to contradict yourself, or that's what I see at least. First you said he belongs in the Russian qualifier, then you say his region is Europe. My point is that this whole nationality debate is preface for him having a poor reputation for whatever reason. Which I'm fine with, plus I know nothing of the guy. He's being fairly mannered in this particular thread, so props to him I'd say. It just leaves a sour taste - say he does not belong in the tournament because he has bad history and be done with it. Other arguments don't hold too well under scrutiny so far. That's the impression I got. Picture could be completely different with more information. Nope, i said in my first post here on the subject that i consider favorite/zarrr as a player who is -technically- eligible to play in the EU region. By exclusion he is therefore not eligible to play in the RUS region. My points tl:dr: -he was always considered a german player in the past, playing for german clans, writing in german forums (secondary argument if you will) - he played for the German National Broodwar Team in the past. - he was counted as German in BSL 6. The wiki lists him as german player. As we learned from hatchet_man above, he himself did choose so. (primary argument) - additionaly he currently resides in Sweden, he owns a dual german and russian citizenship and did not [statement by Rus_Brain] participate in a Moscow Lan yet. + Show Spoiler +Basically all the big Lans are held in Moscow, so thats the same as saying he never attended a russian offline event. Based on that i see no reason at all to even consider him eligible for the russian qualifier. And that was the initial point asked here to which i responded. The question why he was banned from the EU qualifier is a different question to me and was raised only afterwards: On July 03 2019 04:49 iRk-AGge wrote:
Let's use German Athletics Federation as an example when it comes to cheating in sports. A german athlete that tests positive with a banned substance in his/her body is banned from all competition for 2 years, then he/she can start competing again. In sweden we have a 4 year ban and the person can never compete professional again. In USA there are f.e american football players, sprinters and baseball players who get caught with steroids in their body and still only get 6-18 months ban before they can start competeting on pro level again. In Russia the government deny deny deny eventho 43 athletes are sanctioned from the winter olympics 2018, and an ongoing investigation of proclaimed forged documents of drugtests of athletes for the summer olympics in 2020. (Thanks Germany for the investigation)
Favorit on the other hand is banned for life if caught hacking 2008?
There are numerous former players who got caught hacking in their early ages and still got to keep competing for years and years without the community organizers having anything against it, for example, Testie
[relevant part marked by me] And that hackers, even if well in the past would not be allowed into the EU qualifier was said very clearly communicated in the OP for the EU qualifierQuote from the rule section: "2.Right of Admission (II): The administration will not accept the entry of any known hacker or cheater, regardless of when he/she/it was caught breaking the rules. The same logic is applied to known abusers and trolls."
Once again you have totally ignored to reading my posts and everyone elses for that matter. But it's okey, Your using "my pov and imo" instead of reading what everyone is writing. Then you wouldve seen why he wasnt allowed to play in the rus qualifiers.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 04 2019 01:05 Rus_Brain wrote:Sec IShow nested quote + is Russia his region or EU?Any single one he chooses, provided that he is eligible by nationality. So far the only reference to Favorit's "Russian citizenship" is his account @ TL (which I could have created stating somewhat Nauru citizenship). All other references indicate he is either German or Swedish. The only known proof of citizenship known to me is a passport copy. I have told Favorit that revealing the passport will activate a conundrum created by himself back in February when he objected to reveal his personal information under the GDPR. The loophole is, either he provides the passport copy to prove his citizenship now, confirming he lied back then. Or he lies he is Russian now, by proving nothing. So I offered to just step aside. To the contary Favorit decided to register and play in RU quali covered by Russian VPN or whatever deluding Yoda's basic checks whether battle.net identifies your profile as "RUS". Sec IIThere is a rulebook, written long before this discussion: Sec 5.a. Using any tool to give an unfair advantage over other players is strictly forbidden and may result in cancellation of everything due to you There are people here trying to "interpret" the rules, or object to Testie, or Selector past reputation. Although I can see neither Testie nor Selector taking part in this tournament, for such people I have simplified the reason for Favorit's ban to be just personal, which was much easily accepted. Let me reiterate Either he's banned for not being Russian, which seems to have been the first argument. Or he's banned because of the Jeez Weekly incident still being enforced. Or that he's been a hacker, for that matter. All fits. Choose any which is easier for your understanding.
Finally a serious answer from the organizer and person behind the decision. Now we can all leave this whole debate and get on with our lives. Still cheering for this event to be a success, and wish you organizers all the best in the coming fall and with the final event in moscow. <3
<3 visitors are welcome <3
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Russian Federation249 Posts
On July 04 2019 14:12 Rus_Brain wrote:
@Hatchet_man in any case not relevant how the "RUS" location was achieved.
My point is that Favorit didn't do it on purpose. It's just how battle.net works.
You wrote in your statement that "Favorit tried to deceive Yoda into belief his participation was well approved."
And if he did it by only having RUS location in his profile, than this point is misguided. Maybe he did something else, I don't know. But right after your post Favorit replied that he had your approval in the form of "it's up to you to decide" statement.
Anyway, I agree that this situation had to be resolved univocally before qualifier started.
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Russia is basically Asia, just for the clarification.
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On July 04 2019 17:20 jordeady wrote:
Russia is basically Asia, just for the clarification.
Russia is big enough to decide on it's own
just for clarification, lol
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On July 04 2019 17:20 jordeady wrote:
Russia is basically Asia, just for the clarification.
90% of population lives in European part.
It's historically involved in European politics and culture (more than 1000 years).
It's Europe.
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Holyshiet are you telling me flash and leta replays vs eonzerg will be released when the prizepool hit 7500$ ?
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On July 05 2019 22:33 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Holyshiet are you telling me flash and leta replays vs eonzerg will be released when the prizepool hit 7500$ ?
You need those coach? And yes, thats pretty cool :D
Perhaps we can unlock Artosis replays too? At 8000 maybe? Brain?
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EPT
