• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:11
CET 10:11
KST 18:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns3[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
+256753922268 !Lost Love Spells Caster Expert In U
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 790 users

[ASL7] Grand Finals - Mini vs Last - Page 13

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 All
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 25 2019 21:28 GMT
#241
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.

Just play like Bisu and you're good
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19300 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-25 23:49:18
March 25 2019 23:48 GMT
#242
On March 26 2019 06:28 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.

Just play like Bisu and you're good

I actually believe this is why Bisu started going for +1 speedlot opening. It has the most security across builds zerg can open with and allows for opportunities to harrass and scout with zealots. I think that the build has fallen out of favor partly cause of maps and partly because of the poor multitasking abilities that non bisu players have in this matchup.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
v1p3r52
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand182 Posts
March 26 2019 01:33 GMT
#243
Does clicking on the spoiler for results thing no work for anyone else? hasn't been working for a while for me.
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-26 01:53:56
March 26 2019 01:50 GMT
#244
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.


the standard trick for zerg is to attack click the probe with 1-2 ling to tag it constantly from the back, while a separate group of~ 4 lings attack it from the front as the probe turns about to evade the chasing ling. toss with poor micro/multitasking will lose it easily, while those are good will evade the lings for quite some time but will still start sustaining a lot of damage which result in them being evicted from the zerg main base most of the time. that is when zerg can build hydra den or lair in the main. toss generally then have to rely on check drone count/larva activity (9/7/3) in the nat and the 3rd with the probe and/or zeal pressure to sense whether zerg is going for hydra bust or not
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1598 Posts
March 26 2019 12:59 GMT
#245
On March 26 2019 10:50 ggsimida wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.


the standard trick for zerg is to attack click the probe with 1-2 ling to tag it constantly from the back, while a separate group of~ 4 lings attack it from the front as the probe turns about to evade the chasing ling. toss with poor micro/multitasking will lose it easily, while those are good will evade the lings for quite some time but will still start sustaining a lot of damage which result in them being evicted from the zerg main base most of the time. that is when zerg can build hydra den or lair in the main. toss generally then have to rely on check drone count/larva activity (9/7/3) in the nat and the 3rd with the probe and/or zeal pressure to sense whether zerg is going for hydra bust or not

It's much easier for a protoss to juke and mineral click the probe than it is for the zerg to attack it.
I guess it depends on the player, but it should be much easier.
Prev 1 11 12 13 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 219
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4967
GuemChi 770
BeSt 318
Larva 295
Jaedong 231
actioN 227
Sharp 217
Shuttle 173
Leta 147
Killer 125
[ Show more ]
Mong 70
Hyuk 62
Aegong 51
Nal_rA 34
soO 31
ZergMaN 26
Sacsri 23
Light 22
EffOrt 18
NaDa 17
Bale 5
ajuk12(nOOB) 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 822
League of Legends
C9.Mang0623
Counter-Strike
summit1g8193
shoxiejesuss368
Other Games
singsing978
olofmeister495
ceh9366
JimRising 291
Sick263
RuFF_SC259
NeuroSwarm56
KnowMe1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick28402
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 20
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt498
• Jankos250
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 49m
Creator vs NightMare
SKillous vs SHIN
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Cure vs ReBellioN
Classic vs Percival
PiGosaur Cup
15h 49m
SOOP
18h 49m
OSC
1d 2h
OSC
2 days
SOOP
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
5 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 21
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.