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[ASL7] Grand Finals - Mini vs Last - Page 13

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 25 2019 21:28 GMT
#241
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.

Just play like Bisu and you're good
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19227 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-25 23:49:18
March 25 2019 23:48 GMT
#242
On March 26 2019 06:28 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.

Just play like Bisu and you're good

I actually believe this is why Bisu started going for +1 speedlot opening. It has the most security across builds zerg can open with and allows for opportunities to harrass and scout with zealots. I think that the build has fallen out of favor partly cause of maps and partly because of the poor multitasking abilities that non bisu players have in this matchup.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
v1p3r52
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand182 Posts
March 26 2019 01:33 GMT
#243
Does clicking on the spoiler for results thing no work for anyone else? hasn't been working for a while for me.
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-26 01:53:56
March 26 2019 01:50 GMT
#244
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.


the standard trick for zerg is to attack click the probe with 1-2 ling to tag it constantly from the back, while a separate group of~ 4 lings attack it from the front as the probe turns about to evade the chasing ling. toss with poor micro/multitasking will lose it easily, while those are good will evade the lings for quite some time but will still start sustaining a lot of damage which result in them being evicted from the zerg main base most of the time. that is when zerg can build hydra den or lair in the main. toss generally then have to rely on check drone count/larva activity (9/7/3) in the nat and the 3rd with the probe and/or zeal pressure to sense whether zerg is going for hydra bust or not
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1593 Posts
March 26 2019 12:59 GMT
#245
On March 26 2019 10:50 ggsimida wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 04:07 EndingLife wrote:
On March 26 2019 04:05 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote:
On March 26 2019 02:48 SC_ar wrote:
I appreciate you following up, and I do see the purpose of your exercise now. I see how Protoss is in the dark while Z is not, but I still think overall information disparity is even because Protoss will have an easier time scouting than zerg as the matchup goes on and keeps that advantage so long as they have a corsair. They also retain the initial (albeit small) advantage in most games because probe scout delivers the same but often more information about openings.



before the corsair is out on the map u can have either been fucked by masslings or hydrabust.
Oh u made too many canons? zerg got 5hatch with insane eco.

keeping the probe alive is the only way for protoss to know whatsup, cuz if it dies there are no way in hell ur getting another one in there

The scouting probe generally shouldn't die until ling speed is done.


the standard trick for zerg is to attack click the probe with 1-2 ling to tag it constantly from the back, while a separate group of~ 4 lings attack it from the front as the probe turns about to evade the chasing ling. toss with poor micro/multitasking will lose it easily, while those are good will evade the lings for quite some time but will still start sustaining a lot of damage which result in them being evicted from the zerg main base most of the time. that is when zerg can build hydra den or lair in the main. toss generally then have to rely on check drone count/larva activity (9/7/3) in the nat and the 3rd with the probe and/or zeal pressure to sense whether zerg is going for hydra bust or not

It's much easier for a protoss to juke and mineral click the probe than it is for the zerg to attack it.
I guess it depends on the player, but it should be much easier.
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