EPT[ASL7] Ro24 Group D - Page 5
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Dante08
Singapore4203 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
 Otherwise, results weren't surprising but games were odd for sure. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous. havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"? | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On January 23 2019 01:43 Dazed. wrote: pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous. Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 23 2019 02:37 JieXian wrote: Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks. I'm pretty sure we've had previous ASL ZvZs which have had that, or maybe it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch but worth a check imo. | ||
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Rodya
546 Posts
On January 23 2019 02:37 JieXian wrote: Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks. https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/43169/vod Jaedong vs RorO | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On January 23 2019 05:00 superjoppe wrote: Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress. 2 "shitty" Zergs and Light decides to 14 CC them both? Damn why not play safe when you're the better player. But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line. I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career. Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder. Shine > Light Modesty > Light | ||
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razorsuKe
Canada2053 Posts
On January 23 2019 03:50 Rodya wrote: https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/43169/vod Jaedong vs RorO In this vid, RorO (12h) defends Jaedong's 9 pool - but goes on to lose the game by just making lings and then suiciding them. This vid shows a 12h defense transition into a longer game: 2 other vids and some talking points on liquidpedia:  12 Hatch (vs. Zerg) | ||
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
light's last few games (including those silly games last season he threw to miso) just proves he doesn't seem to have the tactical nous for an offline boX series. and this is even in his supposed best matchup, dont even get started on his tvt/tvp aka glaring weaknesses. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On January 23 2019 05:51 Dazed. wrote: Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress. But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line. I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career. Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder. Shine > Light Modesty > Light I would say Light is a player who suffers from a lengthy duration of preparation, rather than a player who loses when there's money on the line. He is one of the greatest Winner's League performers in history, the competition that had the least amount of individualized preparation during the professional era. Even though he has regressed as a player compared to the past, he still one of the better performing players within the confines of online sponsored matches (literally daily examples of Light winning matches with money on the line, and one of his main sources of income currently). There aren't many players who boast a superior win rate within these confines. This isn't a matter of who wins when it 'matters'. It is a matter of tournament scheduling and how much individualized preparation players are afforded per match. If the Brood War competitive scene was comprised of massive tournaments with a much tighter scheduling (meaning less time to prepare) than what we are used to seeing, there is a fair to good chance of the likes of Light accumulating a more successful career. There has always been players who are stronger when given plenty of prior information regarding maps, and opponents with lots of times to prepare. There also has been players who flourish when both sides clash with minimal prep time. The ideal thing would be to succeed regardless of the circumstances, but it seems weird to judge a player by limiting the entire scope of his competitive Brood War history only to matches that had plenty of prep time, and dismissing the rest as 'practice games' or 'zero stakes games'. There's clearly a reason why Light had a much higher salary during his professional years than either Shine or Modesty (both far from being complete players themselves under all competitive circumstances), and while you may not recognize the value in what Light exceled in, the people who actually decides what matters (financially speaking), saw value in Light's performances. This isn't about performance when there's money on the line, this is more about a preference for a particular kind of gaming attribute that Light does not seem to possess. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden321 Posts
Not the highest level of plays but it makes me happy to watch games like this to mix it up! | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
On January 23 2019 05:51 Dazed. wrote: Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress. But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line. I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career. Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder. Shine > Light Modesty > Light I've also been watching BW for a long time. There have *not* been many players like him who have come and gone. Light isn't anywhere near his peak anymore. Oh well. Lol, sounds like you're just a Zerg fan. Shine, Light and Modesty have one thing in common: they could all lose to anyone; they're not overwhelmingly skilled. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11112 Posts
Very happy with mind going through. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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MightyBeast
117 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On January 23 2019 07:01 razorsuKe wrote: In this vid, RorO (12h) defends Jaedong's 9 pool - but goes on to lose the game by just making lings and then suiciding them. This vid shows a 12h defense transition into a longer game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZtJNG-Bzpo 2 other vids and some talking points on liquidpedia: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/12_Hatch_(vs._Zerg) Thanks Rodya and razorsuKe On January 23 2019 01:41 BigFan wrote: ^ pretty much. He should've learned after the 4 pool game but still decided to go 14cc. Is he in the flash phase now? Otherwise, results weren't surprising but games were odd for sure. Looks like you'll know who to praise after Flash goes for his military service | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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