Game 1 Mind vs Modesty - Blockchain Game 2 Light vs ggaemo - Blockchain Winners match Mind vs ggaemo - Whiteout Losers match Modesty vs Light - Whiteout Final match ggaemo vs Modesty - Match Point
I guess we'll use this thread unless a mod makes one later.
oh, I didn't realize it was my fucking job to make one.
Whoa, I didn't mean to get you angry. I wasn't trying to insult. I was just saying I might as well make a thread unless a mod waned to make a better one. My OP's tend to be bland so I thought you guys would maybe make one later. And we'll use this one in the mean time.
Why are you so angry? You are taking this the wrong way.
I do read angry, but again I make LR threads when I have the time and very often I do, however its not my job and there are days when I can't do it, what I don't appreciate is when its expected that I do it and therefore that means that LR threads don't get made until one guy feels the need to make an emergency one because I wasn't around.
of course if you feel like I've been particularly harsh, I apologize, I would much rather people didn't need to rely on me on something that can be achieved without mod magic.
I guess we'll use this thread unless a mod makes one later.
oh, I didn't realize it was my fucking job to make one.
Whoa, I didn't mean to get you angry. I wasn't trying to insult. I was just saying I might as well make a thread unless a mod waned to make a better one. My OP's tend to be bland so I thought you guys would maybe make one later. And we'll use this one in the mean time.
again, its not my intention to come off really angry, I just didn't appreciate the comment.
Why are you so angry? You are taking this the wrong way.
I do read angry, but again I make LR threads when I have the time and very often I do, however its not my job and there are days when I can't do it, what I don't appreciate is when its expected that I do it and therefore that means that LR threads don't get made until one guy feels the need to make an emergency one because I wasn't around.
of course if you feel like I've been particularly harsh, I apologize, I would much rather people didn't need to rely on me on something that can be achieved without mod magic.
I was just making a joke running on that you do usually make them and we do post in them. I don't literally think it's your job. I truly do appreciate your making LR threads.
I feel ggaemo really could've/should've won that... could have pulled more drones, could have targeted with sunkens.. i dunno just seems like he could've held that...
On January 22 2019 20:24 Motivate wrote: dumb decision to base trade there by ggaemo. terran almost always wins the base trade. i'm guessing he either panicked or was just stubborn...
He hoped that the sunkens will hold which would have won him the game and when it became clear that sunkens will not, it was too late already imo
On January 22 2019 20:24 Motivate wrote: dumb decision to base trade there by ggaemo. terran almost always wins the base trade. i'm guessing he either panicked or was just stubborn...
He hoped that the sunkens will hold which would have won him the game and when it became clear that sunkens will not, it was too late already imo
yea, but i felt that it wasn't even close... guess his judgement is just a bit rusty
On January 22 2019 20:49 prosatan wrote: yeah...my LB is gone ! i voted for Mind and Light !
Is that how it works? my last two LB, one was 2/2, the other was 1/2. but the stats indicate the last two were part of a streak. So it seems like in these 2 picks, you need only get 1.
Really nice games from all. Happy to see modesty advance and mind too both strong pro gamers. I thought ggaemoda might advance but I won’t shed any tears about it.
havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
^ pretty much. He should've learned after the 4 pool game but still decided to go 14cc. Is he in the flash phase now? Otherwise, results weren't surprising but games were odd for sure.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks.
I'm pretty sure we've had previous ASL ZvZs which have had that, or maybe it was 12 pool vs 12 hatch but worth a check imo.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks.
On January 23 2019 05:00 superjoppe wrote: 2 "shitty" Zergs and Light decides to 14 CC them both? Damn why not play safe when you're the better player.
Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress.
But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line.
I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career.
Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks.
at least sea made it to an asl finals i believe?only to lose to flash of all players.
light's last few games (including those silly games last season he threw to miso) just proves he doesn't seem to have the tactical nous for an offline boX series. and this is even in his supposed best matchup, dont even get started on his tvt/tvp aka glaring weaknesses.
On January 23 2019 05:00 superjoppe wrote: 2 "shitty" Zergs and Light decides to 14 CC them both? Damn why not play safe when you're the better player.
Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress.
But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line.
I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career.
Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder.
Shine > Light Modesty > Light
I would say Light is a player who suffers from a lengthy duration of preparation, rather than a player who loses when there's money on the line. He is one of the greatest Winner's League performers in history, the competition that had the least amount of individualized preparation during the professional era. Even though he has regressed as a player compared to the past, he still one of the better performing players within the confines of online sponsored matches (literally daily examples of Light winning matches with money on the line, and one of his main sources of income currently). There aren't many players who boast a superior win rate within these confines.
This isn't a matter of who wins when it 'matters'. It is a matter of tournament scheduling and how much individualized preparation players are afforded per match. If the Brood War competitive scene was comprised of massive tournaments with a much tighter scheduling (meaning less time to prepare) than what we are used to seeing, there is a fair to good chance of the likes of Light accumulating a more successful career.
There has always been players who are stronger when given plenty of prior information regarding maps, and opponents with lots of times to prepare. There also has been players who flourish when both sides clash with minimal prep time.
The ideal thing would be to succeed regardless of the circumstances, but it seems weird to judge a player by limiting the entire scope of his competitive Brood War history only to matches that had plenty of prep time, and dismissing the rest as 'practice games' or 'zero stakes games'. There's clearly a reason why Light had a much higher salary during his professional years than either Shine or Modesty (both far from being complete players themselves under all competitive circumstances), and while you may not recognize the value in what Light exceled in, the people who actually decides what matters (financially speaking), saw value in Light's performances. This isn't about performance when there's money on the line, this is more about a preference for a particular kind of gaming attribute that Light does not seem to possess.
On January 23 2019 05:00 superjoppe wrote: 2 "shitty" Zergs and Light decides to 14 CC them both? Damn why not play safe when you're the better player.
Well, I dont think modestys shitty tbh, hes just an idiosyncratic player, when he gets a bit more in form and things click, I think he will impress.
But as to light: you know ive been watching melee bw for 13 years now, and theres been a lot of players like light who have come and gone, people who are known to be really good but they just cant 'make it'. Usually in the kespa days they would be great PL players, but bad league players. Sea was one of those guys, though he changed himself after kespa. I'm not sure its fair to say light is the better player, because what light excels at is practice. He excels at beating zergs repetitiously over time when theres no stakes on the line.
I'm not sure its fair to say the person who dominates in practice but cant actually win when it counts is the better player. You practice so that you can win when it counts, and while light might be mechanically better than these zergs, hes shown himself to be a weak player as of late. We cant say these were aberrations because they are actually indicative of whats been happening to light the last six months especially, but really, his entire career.
Like, this is the opposite of what most of the community views. They hail someone like light and disregard someone like shine, but when the moneys on the line, shine is the player who will go far, and light will flounder.
Shine > Light Modesty > Light
I've also been watching BW for a long time. There have *not* been many players like him who have come and gone.
Light isn't anywhere near his peak anymore. Oh well. Lol, sounds like you're just a Zerg fan. Shine, Light and Modesty have one thing in common: they could all lose to anyone; they're not overwhelmingly skilled.
Zergs were so afraid that Light gonna kick their asses so they cheesed the fuck out of him, poor Light. Only FlaSh gets away with 14 CC because even if he fails to scout he has the eyes of god and devil instinct, he knows what's coming up.
^ Indeed. It's always disappointing to see him play, except for here and there. I remember back during ASL4 when he played Larva on Gold Rush and went for a proxy rax in Larva's base. Larva easily scouted it then Light didn't even know how to wall and lost to the lings that went straight to his base lol. I realize that a single game or several aren't the best indicator, but as someone who likes Terran players in general, I would've loved to see Light actually play amazing TvZ games again on a more consistent basis.
On January 22 2019 21:06 Kaolla wrote: havent seen much zvz lately... or played any... but couldn't ggaemo have just not cancelled his exp and build lings asap with both hatches and hope he could save the base? it seems cancelling that hatch was pretty much gg right there, especially with Modesty himself taking his exp right away... i think they regularly used to do that in the "old days"?
pre jaedong, ggaemos response was "the" response in the situation they're in, cancel the hatch if you scout it in time, build one in main and sunken up. I'm not sure if Jaedongs drone micro was just so good he showed that zergs could viably defend hatches against a 9 pool in general, or if its just considered a last resort if you didnt see it coming in time. Either way cancelling the hatch actually predates pulling drones and fighting, which everyone previously thought was ludicrous.
Any chance you could link a game of defending 9pool after opening 12 hatch the by pulling drones? Thanks.
On January 23 2019 01:41 BigFan wrote: ^ pretty much. He should've learned after the 4 pool game but still decided to go 14cc. Is he in the flash phase now? Otherwise, results weren't surprising but games were odd for sure.
Looks like you'll know who to praise after Flash goes for his military service
I checked last ASL, ASL6, and ro16 started 5 days after round of 24. So we won’t have to wait long at all. I personally cannot wait for the ro16 group selection. It is one of the best parts of the whole tournament with player introductions, hype, smack talk, and suspense.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Lkht5rI.jpg)
Mind
Modesty
Otherwise, results weren't surprising but games were odd for sure. 
12 Hatch (vs. Zerg)
