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Yanokabo
268 Posts
On October 30 2018 01:34 Elroi wrote: More than not playing standard, I think effort in this series changed the metagame to be fair. I think that’s going too far, what he do that nobody hasn’t done before? I think he just played cookie cutter but showed that flash can be weak in clutch situations. Other than the burrow build I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On October 30 2018 00:59 LightSpectra wrote: Just watched the games. effOrt played well, but I have to say, it seems like Flash's losses were entirely due to mis-microing his vultures and wraithes, and also that accidental double science facility in game 5. Somebody should buy him a new ruler. BigFan, your god needs a new ruler! And a bottle with caps that are easier to screw on! In all seriousness, you have to be fair man, it's a high stakes finals series, both sides made mistakes, Effort threw away his mutas in CB and g5 Autobahn too (He even attacked the CC several times -.-). Flash doesn't mismicro his vultures that badly, Effort had rushed for zergling speed and controlled his lings very well, and it's very difficult to pull off, a lot more difficult that vulture patrol micro. On October 30 2018 00:30 Elroi wrote: When I saw it, I thought it was to make flash scan the natural rather than the main, thinking he had scouted that with the scv. I believe that is what happened too. I thought that would be the case too, the balls on that guy... The observer did a good job on communicating that, along with many other things. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 30 2018 00:59 LightSpectra wrote: Just watched the games. effOrt played well, but I have to say, it seems like Flash's losses were entirely due to mis-microing his vultures and wraithes, and also that accidental double science facility in game 5. Somebody should buy him a new ruler. Was the double science facility really what cost him the whole game though? I guess it delayed his timing attack or something? I thought his army looked pretty formidable when he moved out, but Effort microed his army so well in the decisive battle. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany911 Posts
On October 30 2018 02:01 Starlightsun wrote: Was the double science facility really what cost him the whole game though? I guess it delayed his timing attack or something? I thought his army looked pretty formidable when he moved out, but Effort microed his army so well in the decisive battle. It certainly had an impact because I am pretty sure Flash thought for a while that the second building is the ebay. You can see that he only starts his ebay after he realizes the mistake which lead to the late turrets and quite some SCV losses. | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
On October 30 2018 02:01 Starlightsun wrote: Was the double science facility really what cost him the whole game though? I guess it delayed his timing attack or something? I thought his army looked pretty formidable when he moved out, but Effort microed his army so well in the decisive battle. Not at all he was way behind before that with getting our expanded and out produced economically | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1937 Posts
On October 30 2018 02:01 Starlightsun wrote: Was the double science facility really what cost him the whole game though? I guess it delayed his timing attack or something? I thought his army looked pretty formidable when he moved out, but Effort microed his army so well in the decisive battle. Obv I can't say for certain if that cost him the game, but he had to stay holed up at his natural for almost 60 more seconds because of it. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
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Aesthetician
20 Posts
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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kaspa84
Brazil169 Posts
Huge congrats to EffOrt, he beat the previous ASL champ, Current KSL champ, and the best of all time in Bo5s. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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errol1001
454 Posts
NoRegret Good job | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 28 2018 17:34 iFU.pauline wrote: Message to BigFan, putting Flash first for next power rank is "out of question" :troll: no one can beat effort top shape, no one. I beg to differ, but I'm not interested in debating this with an EffOrt fan lol. On October 29 2018 00:27 JieXian wrote: Hold on, Yanokabo is just a little noob, we are still waiting for BigFan to wake up to watch the games, get mad and start criticising Flash like he had done with Last  haha oh you. I actually do have some criticism of the games. I think the series overall was a fun watch, and it came down to a cool game 5 though it felt like Flash was mis-controlling at times, or playing right into EffOrt's hands. I know of at least one other person who thought the same as me here. Ok, let's get started! First off, congrats to EffOrt on the win. I was rooting for Flash, and I believe that he would take it because in a macro game, not a single player can take him on. Explains why EffOrt tried for all those strategies too. After all, the 1-1-1 is quite the build. However, a Zerg ASL champion is always a welcome sight, especially with all the Tesagi talk lately. Maybe people can finally knock it off now that a Zerg beat Flash on the highest stage in their era. I'm also glad to see EffOrt actually playing Zerg more aggressively. I've always thought of Zerg as the race that has a lot of tools or possibilities, but a lot of players just think of the macro mindset. Had he went into it with that thought, he would've lost this game. Finally, I've also always advocated for moving like sending that irradiated muta over the marines. Use the enemies' weapon against him, something that a lot of players don't take advantage of imo. Onto the game then. Game 1 and 2 were fun imo. Game 1 saw EffOrt trick Flash, or at least denied the scout, and then he managed some really nice vulture surrounds. It reminds me of the game vs Last on Circuit Breaker. My only criticism is the placement of Flash's factory. I mean, why? Did anyone figure this out? He basically blocked his other vultures in, and created another choke with the rax area. Vultures work best in wide spaces, and his base management along with EffOrt's timing killed him outright. Sure, the main is small on Autobahn, but Flash making this kind of judgement is iffy. Game 2 saw Flash bust EffOrt using 2 rax acad. This was a bit of an odd one. My best guess is that even though EffOrt missed the first 4 marines with his ling, he probably figured that 2 sunkens on the high ground+6-7 lings would be enough to hold off against the final push considering the miss chance. Once he defends, he'll just ravage Flash's base with his mutas. As someone mentioned, drones were important for that build. Flash had a great engagement though with his firebats killing the lings and surviving too. EffOrt knew it was coming because he saw no CC, and took a risk imo. It didn't pay off. Game 3 was an interesting struggle. Flash dealt with the mole strat and the zergling bust a LOT better than Last did. Last just crumbled, while Flash split his units properly, defended on two fronts, got some turrets, both to kill burrowed ling+mutas later etc.. Basically, EffOrt had a spot, but overcommitted imo. Of course, Flash had to go for that third bust too, without medics or acad. That's when you know that it's quite serious. Reminds me of my games when I feel like I have to do something, and end up doing some weird moveout haha. Even though the army died, Flash did end up getting a nice irradiate on the mutas, and then rolled EffOrt. Not much else to say here. EffOrt tried his best, pushed Flash back but the macro machine was in full swing. Game 4 was the game I had the most issues with. It felt like Flash's micro was subpar. Sure, rushing for defilers is cool and all, and sure, it's not typical on this stage, but after containing a terran with lurkers and making him commit to bunkers/lose workers etc... it only felt natural that defilers were the next step. EffOrt did have that nice move where he avoided the army of Flash using his OL, but it feels like this is something that Flash wouldn't lose at his peak. I'm sure someone will argue that EffOrt tricked Flash or pulled a cool 2 hatch lurker, and sure, but was anyone convinced by Flash's micro of his army too? His tech felt late as well. Obviously playing in the dark is rough, and losing workers doesn't help, but what did he expect? Effort to just bust him when he has a lot of units behind two full bunkers? Cool game, but this is the kind of strat that I would die too, not Flash w/e. Game 5 was an interesting game. Flash went for a true 1-1-1, instead of his usual refined 1-1-1, but he made some mistakes. Losing that first tank really hurt, and EffOrt had that stellar vulture drop+wraith defense at his main too prior to that. Then once Flash moves out, he doesn't even decide to try and send a marine ahead or figure out if EffOrt is waiting for his moveout, and he gets ambushed? That was a huge moment for EffOrt. It was great to see, but it felt like a beginner's mistake to me. Flash is always so cautious, yet he of all people had that happen. The double facility kinda sealed the game imo. Once I saw that, I knew Flash must've cracked. Wonder if he was thinking that heavily back to Korean Air OSL. From there, the game was all EffOrt's. So, yes, the victory was well deserved, but in some games, it felt like Flash didn't play like himself. Maybe he was a bit nervous, felt like it when watching the interview early on. He also kept sticking to the same idea. He knows that EffOrt knows this, and kept going at it. The Flash I know wouldn't try to be that predictive imo. Other part of it is that no one questioned his health, as in, not a single person in this thread found it odd that the commentators would bring up his health after EffOrt won. Felt like they were saying, sure, EffOrt won, but Flash was also suffering from his health problems, otherwise why even bother asking then? It took away from EffOrt's victory. Anyways, congrats to him again. Hopefully he doesn't fade away like he did after VANT. Edit: I think Flash should just leave to the army now. He's still the best in the game, and has the most accomplishments. Leaving now would open up the floor too, and EffOrt can stand at the top atm. Might be best for BW too if Flash's injuries are hurting him again. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4732 Posts
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DJONES
United States218 Posts
On October 30 2018 07:10 Malinor wrote: BroodWar is amazing. What else is there to say? Such a wonderful treat this game is. Indeed sir. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On October 30 2018 07:10 Malinor wrote: BroodWar is amazing. What else is there to say? Such a wonderful treat this game is. I have seen some of these games three times now.  I. still. can't. believe. how. good. Effort. is. | ||
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Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
On October 30 2018 01:49 Yanokabo wrote: I think that’s going too far, what he do that nobody hasn’t done before? I think he just played cookie cutter but showed that flash can be weak in clutch situations. Other than the burrow build I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. It is a game changer. Many Koreans are saying that this basically counters 111 and basically puts an end to 111 trend. Effort's bo is this gas trick => scout at 9th drone => scouted 111 do 2hat speed/burrow if not 111 then regular 3hat. Burrow upgrade is the key here. He basically forces flash to move back to his nat. He doesn't care if there are vultures since speed lings will take care of it. Flash will still have to retreat back because there are just too many speed lings. Once flash is in main effort will go ahead and burrow at his nat preventing, flash to come out and expand. Meanwhile effort can tech and eco up as usual and that alone puts him well ahead. Effort basically did this vs 111 during finals. We saw this in 1st game clearly. Effort also upgraded burrow but decided not to show it since it was over anyway. He already had a solid plan after his speed lings didnt work This is from effort's insight yesterday on his stream after the finals. So it did successfully change the meta | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On October 30 2018 12:50 Dazed. wrote: watch game 1 more carefully, effort didnt spend any gas on burrow. EffOrt has 200 gas built up, and spends it all after his spawning pool finishes. There are no other ways of spending all that gas without researching burrow. (Edit: this is wrong information, 100 gas is spent at 3.37 in the video) Further more, EffOrt explained his build order on his stream, which was already mentioned in the post above. EffOrt didn't use burrow because he already knew the game was finished without having to use it. His initial plan was to attack with his initial eight speedlings to push the terran units back into the main base, and burrow his lings besides the entrance choke for the main base, and attack the natural with his back-up zerglings, and unburrow his initial zerglings if the terran tried to protect his natural expansion. That meant that Flash was going to be in an economically disadvantageous situation if he gave up his natural expansion. However, Flash botched up his micro-management way too much, and EffOrt just ended the game from there. Flash knew in advance that EffOrt researched burrow, and asked him that if he didn't use his burrowed zerglings on purpose, to mess with EffOrt's mind. I don't know what Flash had prepared, but his execution was way too subpar that game for it to matter. | ||
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