EPT[ASL5] Ro16 Group A - Page 10
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Qikz
United Kingdom12056 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Game one was usual Flash dominance. Transistor is a pretty volatile map and there's not an option for an even map split, so assuming control with intelligent vulture aggression and good tank placement to expand behind seemed logical. The starting locations put the game on a timer in a sense - both players having to expand towards the 9 o'clock to "slice" a larger piece of the map. Flash having a later +1 is especially telling of the importance of earlier map control in an already positional matchup. And when you're Flash and you have more bases, you just win. Game two was the most boring of the series in my opinion. Both players scouted each other early and Shine had all the advantage to break with his lings in pre-muta timing. Game three was funny as hell and I'd like to watch it again to appreciate some of the finer points on both players' builds. Was Shine aware that Flash would go for earlier speed? It would be logical to play the more defensive game (i.e. researching mines first) in a scenario where you have little to no information on what Z is doing, you basically cannot harass up the tiny ramp into the main. He did go for more vultures earlier than I expected, but I couldn't follow his build closely enough; I expected the earliest wraith possible for an uncontested scout. Even with wraith/vulture, I thought the rush was pretty holdable even with a later scout(that SCV was hilarious and was a huge blunder by Shine IMO) - wraith snipes the overlord, mines are used to defend. I think we can safely assume Shine tailored the build specifically against Flash's variation of the 1-1-1, usual unit numbers and timings considered, so I suppose he had a backup plan in case Flash went mine first. Were the lings going to be used for sweeping? I hope someone can elaborate. Game four was possibly the most entertaining game of the night, possibly courtesy of Mind's failed wraith micro when he needed it the most (vs the guardians in the initial push on MisO's natural). I fully agree defilers would have been a much, much more reasonable choice , particularly on that map - the tiny ramps to the mains are a defiler's wet dream. Double expanding in the third world, also, seemed a bit too greedy to me and allowed the push in the natural in the first place - you've already forced T into two starports, they enable him to harass the third world more easily unless you get definite air superiority, so why would you also enable T to push the natural by spending on an additional expansion, not to mention forgoing defilers entirely? It's like forcing yourself into an unfavorable position, please correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment. Game five was fun too, the slow lurker drop was a cute idea, but I have to wonder about the predictability of an attack coming this way. Mind had already sent a marine to scout for some reason, maybe he got wind of it (he's playing vs Shine after all!), maybe something else happened that I didn't appreciate, but I feel the better idea is to keep T honest with mutas - it's a 3 rax build, so he doesn't have as many marines - to make for a harder to defend drop. Sure, the early bio push at Shine's natural delayed him, losing mutas, drones and having to make sunkens, but he regained map presence with mutas shortly enough. All in all nothing unexpected and I'm very happy that both terrans survived the group -being a terran player myself and as I said earlier, less zergs in Ro8 equals less ZvZ potential. I hope for a pretty even split between P and Z in the later groups, since PvP is not the prettiest sight either, though the new maps make for fun games. (Sky vs Shuttle was pure entertainment). | ||
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Race Bannon
689 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19386 Posts
On April 02 2018 02:16 PVJ wrote: I also don't think the harsh comments here are warranted. This was the first I heard about NoregreT but I thought past certain mistakes they made a good number of correct calls, analysing the "sandwiching", ZvZ openers, then zerg positions vs scouting, how MisO expanded, Shine going Spire. It wasn't bad at all for a first cast. I was more baffled by calling Mind Flash all game than by any mistake or lack-of-a-good-call resulting from no knowledge. I think there's no problem with being curious, open enough to ask questions, share your thoughts on how and what your understanding of the game is. I think those are great and I hope he took the experience positively and perhaps got hooked on the game a lot more than before. This is all very subjective and usually not much constructive criticism can be found in the threads which I usually find a bit sad. I believe being a fan of the game shouldn't be intimidating to those who know less. They are great casters, but the issue is every transition from SC2 caster makes the same bw to sc2 comparisons all other sc2 casters made in the past. It was fun the first times rapid, tastlesss, artosis, and tastlesss all made the same comparisons as they returned/started new. I think toning back comparison talk just needs to be something for new SC2 casters to keep in mind. -This comment is coming from a person who watches GSL. | ||
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ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
On April 02 2018 02:16 PVJ wrote: I also don't think the harsh comments here are warranted. This was the first I heard about NoregreT but I thought past certain mistakes they made a good number of correct calls, analysing the "sandwiching", ZvZ openers, then zerg positions vs scouting, how MisO expanded, Shine going Spire. It wasn't bad at all for a first cast. I was more baffled by calling Mind Flash all game than by any mistake or lack-of-a-good-call resulting from no knowledge. I think there's no problem with being curious, open enough to ask questions, share your thoughts on how and what your understanding of the game is. I think those are great and I hope he took the experience positively and perhaps got hooked on the game a lot more than before. This is all very subjective and usually not much constructive criticism can be found in the threads which I usually find a bit sad. I believe being a fan of the game shouldn't be intimidating to those who know less. I don't have a problem getting in a lesser experienced caster in a pinch if they know their role, I was more surprised by Rapids mistakes in game 1, saying they are both doing the same opener. Then talking about Mind's scout looking for a place to put a proxy fac? Mind still did not have a gas at this point. Then talking about opening with a fd? I muted the vod after that so idk but that is an extremely poor sample of knowledge from a guy who I know follows BW to some extent. Agreed on having a less experienced person there is fine if they know which questions to ask I generally don't care for any English casters though so no loss to me, and like I said I know they were in a pinch with tastosis ot Happy both Terrans got through to ro8 but kinda sad at the same time that Shine is out, always love to see his unorthodox play. Really never thought I would say that, used to hate him with a passion in the Kespa days haha. Just curious, are the Korean vods only up on afreeca or do they have a separate youtube channel? | ||
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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Race Bannon
689 Posts
Mind and FlaSh killing it | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10566 Posts
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Jackal03
Brazil7469 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Reminds me of that crossing field game last ASL where Mind had a faster fourth and a supply lead then he fumbled an engagement (half his army went to the low ground lol) so he lost it while Flash lost like a tank or two at best. Flash pushed, stopped the fourth and took him own gg. Mind's play was a bit sloppy I feel, especially on third world. He did have great timing with the attack but his wraiths ate more scourge than they should've I feel. Still, that was a really close and entertaining battle and Miso almost held too. If he just survived, his 4 gas with ultras would've overwhelmed Mind soon. His game vs Shine was better. Still some mistakes like him having a large group of marines just sitting on the side while the mutas killed workers but maybe there's something I missed. On April 01 2018 20:49 hasuprotoss wrote: Shine's attempt of a slow lurker drop are killed off because Mind's marines were already over in his main to protect against mutas. Either way, the mutas got a good number of free kills on the marines and are now doing a fair bit of damage. Mind actually sniffed it out, both with that marine scout and he said in the post-game interview that he had a feeling that it was coming. His scan that also caught the incoming backstab and stopped it was great! | ||
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ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
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Kuks
43 Posts
Rapid had some trouble though. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Kuks
43 Posts
On April 02 2018 22:25 Alpha-NP- wrote: Miso's game where he has 4 bases and gets trounced by a 2base Mind makes me hate the Terran race. Miso just played badly. Scouts 1-1-1 and mass Terran air, doesn't build a single spore colony. If he one spore at this central expansion it would not have died to wraths. If he had one spore at his natural his guardians would have stayed alive much longer and won the game. Don't be confused by Minds terrible wrath micro, that many scourge connections should have never happened. Miso did a terrible job at countering air. Miso also didn't make a nydus network. His fifth fell to like 6 marines, he played badly. Skipping Defiler tech was the second biggest failure Miso made, first being no spores. Miso basically fumbled at the 1 yard line. Also you are talking about a game between the 2nd best Terran and the worst Zerg. I think Miso has a lot of potential but needs more time to reach it. | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
On April 02 2018 05:25 BisuDagger wrote: They are great casters, but the issue is every transition from SC2 caster makes the same bw to sc2 comparisons all other sc2 casters made in the past. It was fun the first times rapid, tastlesss, artosis, and tastlesss all made the same comparisons as they returned/started new. I think toning back comparison talk just needs to be something for new SC2 casters to keep in mind. -This comment is coming from a person who watches GSL. I think it is fine for NoRegreT to do this, seeing how he is a SC2 pro, and can analyze the game through the lense of that. The problem to me rather is all the other casters doing it, that are not in that position, and due to their past could be able to explain and expand on BW stuff without referencing other games. | ||
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noname_
469 Posts
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Miragee
8708 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7055 Posts
On April 03 2018 08:59 noname_ wrote: When did become a trend to not gg back? It lreally ooks like an asshole behaviour. is just that usually when you loss and type gg u are pressing alt q very fast so in most of cases you are the missing the gg anyway. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
TE SA GI bwahahahahaha | ||
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