EPT[SSL Classic] S1 Day 7 - Page 2
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51636 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 25 2017 19:08 ByuuN wrote: Bw ssl round robin should be best of 3. Or at least a double round robin. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3851 Posts
 'burrow does not protect you from irradiate' | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
uh | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4181 Posts
i mean it doesnt protect the unit it is on, but protects from the splash | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4189 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7186 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 25 2017 21:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Effort so good,such a joy watching him play,always something new and unique,so awesome <3 Tbf, Mind went for a super weird play that put him behind from the beginning. But effOrt's scouting was so on point...hats off to him for that. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7186 Posts
On May 25 2017 21:12 EsportsJohn wrote: Tbf, Mind went for a super weird play that put him behind from the beginning. But effOrt's scouting was so on point...hats off to him for that. Can u tell me in what phase of the game was mind behind?+ Show Spoiler + sadly casters didnt really know what was happening in the entire game. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4181 Posts
On May 25 2017 21:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Can u tell me in what phase of the game was mind behind?+ Show Spoiler + sadly casters didnt really know what was happening in the entire game. All phases, Mind went for unorthodox plays that did not do enough damage to pay off, however, he did some damage to stay in the game, but the moment effor took 3rd and mind had no means to contest/slow it or take 3rd on its own, it became clear that he is way behind. Nevertheless, he tried to turtle, since, the map is poor on expands and if he was able to divide it in half, he could've craw his way back into it, but effort did not let him. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7186 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4181 Posts
On May 26 2017 00:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: the only real (fail) from Mind was the 3 wraiths cloack.He made it with the intention to make Muta harass useless,but since effort didnt make a single one,but yet,he sniped overlords and killed some scourges.the 8 rax ref variation intention is not to kill the hatchery or anything just to force the zerg to pull drones.even his push to the third was so close,it was about seconds and a desperate consume from effort to spell swarm.i didnt see Mind behind at any moment.maybe lossing some vessels wasnt optimal but well. I don;t know, I think that if Zerg can take 3rd and Terran cannot contest, it means Terran is behind | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 26 2017 00:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: the only real (fail) from Mind was the 3 wraiths cloack.He made it with the intention to make Muta harass useless,but since effort didnt make a single one,but yet,he sniped overlords and killed some scourges.the 8 rax ref variation intention is not to kill the hatchery or anything just to force the zerg to pull drones.even his push to the third was so close,it was about seconds and a desperate consume from effort to spell swarm.i didnt see Mind behind at any moment.maybe lossing some vessels wasnt optimal but well. I think effOrt was way ahead after the vulture drop failed to do any significant damage, but the flexibility of Mind's build forced effOrt to be a lot more careful with his tech. effOrt did also hemorrhage several lings in the middle of the map vs Mind's (well-micro'd) vultures, which may have put him further behind than necessary. But he got the third base uncontested and had defilers up to deal with the push; at that point, if you're on bio vs hive tech Zerg and you can't break the base, you lose imo. The doom drops into the Zerg main were just hail mary desperation plays. I will admit that the push into the third base was much closer than expected. I thought effOrt would have more at that point, but he had all the tech to deal with it at least. | ||
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RJGooner
United States2093 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
On May 26 2017 03:19 EsportsJohn wrote: I think effOrt was way ahead after the vulture drop failed to do any significant damage, but the flexibility of Mind's build forced effOrt to be a lot more careful with his tech. effOrt did also hemorrhage several lings in the middle of the map vs Mind's (well-micro'd) vultures, which may have put him further behind than necessary. But he got the third base uncontested and had defilers up to deal with the push; at that point, if you're on bio vs hive tech Zerg and you can't break the base, you lose imo. The doom drops into the Zerg main were just hail mary desperation plays. I will admit that the push into the third base was much closer than expected. I thought effOrt would have more at that point, but he had all the tech to deal with it at least. Without the ling distraction (and no mutas or hydras, which was Effort's build), it would have been much harder to sneak a drone for the 3rd against the vultures. Mind also was in decent position with strong Vessel count due to his build (would have had even more if it wasn't for the wraiths) when Effort got swarm, but he chose to add more barracks instead of taking a 3rd (he also tried to build it on site without any units, having it delayed it even more to zerglings). Bio is viable lategame (it has always been, despite mech taking it's place in later years), even more on Match Point where it's tricky for zerg to hold a 4th gas base. Had Effort not taken map control at the time he did (still on 3 gas at that point), he would have lost the game | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden320 Posts
Also, it felt like Soulkey had that game won vs. Free but didn't dodge the storms at all and got his entire army wiped out. Maybe Free did more damage than I realized in Soulkeys base at the same time and I guess that is what took Soulkeys attention. But that was a close exciting moment, good stuff! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 26 2017 03:49 ortseam wrote: Without the ling distraction (and no mutas or hydras, which was Effort's build), it would have been much harder to sneak a drone for the 3rd against the vultures. Mind also was in decent position with strong Vessel count due to his build (would have had even more if it wasn't for the wraiths) when Effort got swarm, but he chose to add more barracks instead of taking a 3rd (he also tried to build it on site without any units, having it delayed it even more to zerglings). Bio is viable lategame (it has always been, despite mech taking it's place in later years), even more on Match Point where it's tricky for zerg to hold a 4th gas base. Had Effort not taken map control at the time he did (still on 3 gas at that point), he would have lost the game Right, but that's expected. If you have 3 bases up with hive tech units, it's expected that you'll take map control and get up your fourth base. I'm not convinced bio is good late game if Terran isn't massively ahead or multi-tasking insanely hard with dropships; once the swarms, cracklings, ultras, and OL drops come out, there's almost nothing bio can do against it other than hyperaggression with tons of multi-tasking. If we assume that the wraith play and vulture drop were instead a success, then Mind's strategy could be considered a massive 2-base timing push with bio/tank/vessel on the third base. After that was defended, Mind was just playing catch up against the Zerg economy. The game was closer than I expected based on the openings, but I don't think Mind was ever in control of the game. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland620 Posts
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On May 26 2017 04:23 EsportsJohn wrote: Right, but that's expected. If you have 3 bases up with hive tech units, it's expected that you'll take map control and get up your fourth base. I'm not convinced bio is good late game if Terran isn't massively ahead or multi-tasking insanely hard with dropships; once the swarms, cracklings, ultras, and OL drops come out, there's almost nothing bio can do against it other than hyperaggression with tons of multi-tasking. If we assume that the wraith play and vulture drop were instead a success, then Mind's strategy could be considered a massive 2-base timing push with bio/tank/vessel on the third base. After that was defended, Mind was just playing catch up against the Zerg economy. The game was closer than I expected based on the openings, but I don't think Mind was ever in control of the game. Uhm, 3 gas hive doesn't give you map control. If that was true, Zergs would go around the "take 3rd" part of ZvT by taking easy, close 3rds (which is a thing on most maps like FS).Instead, they keep insisting on getting a harder to hold, empty main. Why? Because that nydus is the safest way to take a fast 4th base. This is the foundation of modern ZvT. What bio has trouble with, is that fast 4th gas and the ultraling defiler combo (even then, there is neoSK-Terran, which is a tank transition timed with zerg 4gas hive, Flash used it a lot in 2010). Note how effort practically won the game with zerglings and the random ultra here and there, you need a 4th gas for proper ultra/defiler. With all that said, i agree Effort had a (small imo) lead for most of the game, but it was never game winning until the latest moments with the 4 dropship defense and counterattacks. A random dropship can easily turn the game around in ZvT, not to mention 4. Also i don't think Mind went 7rax 2star on 2 base because he was behind, it's actually a pretty good strategy on Match Point (3 gas Zerg starvation) | ||
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