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United States4883 Posts
On May 26 2017 05:34 ortseam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 04:23 EsportsJohn wrote:
Right, but that's expected. If you have 3 bases up with hive tech units, it's expected that you'll take map control and get up your fourth base. I'm not convinced bio is good late game if Terran isn't massively ahead or multi-tasking insanely hard with dropships; once the swarms, cracklings, ultras, and OL drops come out, there's almost nothing bio can do against it other than hyperaggression with tons of multi-tasking.
If we assume that the wraith play and vulture drop were instead a success, then Mind's strategy could be considered a massive 2-base timing push with bio/tank/vessel on the third base. After that was defended, Mind was just playing catch up against the Zerg economy. The game was closer than I expected based on the openings, but I don't think Mind was ever in control of the game. Uhm, 3 gas hive doesn't give you map control. If that was true, Zergs would go around the "take 3rd" part of ZvT by taking easy, close 3rds (which is a thing on most maps like FS).Instead, they keep insisting on getting a harder to hold, empty main. Why? Because that nydus is the safest way to take a fast 4th base. This is the foundation of modern ZvT. What bio has trouble with, is that fast 4th gas and the ultraling defiler combo (even then, there is neoSK-Terran, which is a tank transition timed with zerg 4gas hive, Flash used it a lot in 2010). Note how effort practically won the game with zerglings and the random ultra here and there, you need a 4th gas for proper ultra/defiler. With all that said, i agree Effort had a (small imo) lead for most of the game, but it was never game winning until the latest moments with the 4 dropship defense and counterattacks. A random dropship can easily turn the game around in ZvT, not to mention 4. Also i don't think Mind went 7rax 2star on 2 base because he was behind, it's actually a pretty good strategy on Match Point (3 gas Zerg starvation)
That's fair. My point is that he had the defiler/lurker/ling combo needed to push back the Terran and safely take a 4th in between his natural and third. This is the same sort of setup you do with a more standard map like CB, relying heavily on the nydus to reinforce. Maybe that's not considered "map control", but it's certainly the ability to block or delay any sort of attack the Terran can throw at you and safely take a closer 4th.
Like you said though, it might be that Mind was planning to keep pushing into the third and prevent effOrt from ever actually amassing enough gas to get into ultras (AKA 3 gas Zerg starvation) and win through mid game attrition. I'll take that as a fair argument ^^.
I personally think he invested so much into mech that it was a bit weird to reverse tech back into bio, but it was tricky enough to give him a small advantage for the first big push. In any case, I admit to not knowing too much about this game, honestly. So I'm glad to have conversations like this!
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Weird games, but fun to watch. I normally listen to the korean casters but did English this time, I really wish they would stop ripping on the players though. IN the Light vs Hero it felt like half the time they were stating how bad those players were or how everything was a mistake.
Just commentate the game, regardless of whether the players are "bad" or "good" no need to go insulting them.
Not the biggest fan of the SSL format, glad that their done with all these bo1 round robin groups and can now go into a proper bo3.
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On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me).
they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL.
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Whoever designed the set for the SSL needs to be fired.
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These casters lol.... Tastosis needs to coach them, guy on the left is particularly bad. 'defiler mound goes down!' when mind kills a creep colony.... 'burrow doesn't save you from that!' yes it does. Also at the start of the game they called Effort Soulkey lol... Fun games!
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On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL.
I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL.
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On May 26 2017 19:26 aedeph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL. I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL.
Someone is asking for TL to support SSL, im bringing up a reason why that might be a challenge. TL is a means to market your event, if SPOTV can't do their part and their viewership numbers are in the toilet (even their korean stream doesn't get a lot of viewers) then that's on them.. not TL. Not everyone is gonna browse an LR thread just to look for a stream link.
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On May 26 2017 20:52 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 19:26 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL. I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL. Someone is asking for TL to support SSL, im bringing up a reason why that might be a challenge. TL is a means to market your event, if SPOTV can't do their part and their viewership numbers are in the toilet (even their korean stream doesn't get a lot of viewers) then that's on them.. not TL. Not everyone is gonna browse an LR thread just to look for a stream link.
Yes, youtube is another shitty obscure streaming platform for minors, and there is no problem, that TL has no full support of it, because embedding it is incredibly difficult technical task, which only top programmers are capable of.
Did I understand your point?
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On May 26 2017 21:14 aedeph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 20:52 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 19:26 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL. I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL. Someone is asking for TL to support SSL, im bringing up a reason why that might be a challenge. TL is a means to market your event, if SPOTV can't do their part and their viewership numbers are in the toilet (even their korean stream doesn't get a lot of viewers) then that's on them.. not TL. Not everyone is gonna browse an LR thread just to look for a stream link. Yes, youtube is another shitty obscure streaming platform for minors, and there is no problem, that TL has no full support of it, because embedding it is incredibly difficult technical task, which only top programmers are capable of. Did I understand your point?
quote me where i said "youtube is shitty" (or even implied it), once you do that think about whether or not you understand my point
and like i mentioned, if this is a "TL issue" why does their korean stream barely have any viewers as well?
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On May 26 2017 21:28 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 21:14 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 20:52 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 19:26 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL. I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL. Someone is asking for TL to support SSL, im bringing up a reason why that might be a challenge. TL is a means to market your event, if SPOTV can't do their part and their viewership numbers are in the toilet (even their korean stream doesn't get a lot of viewers) then that's on them.. not TL. Not everyone is gonna browse an LR thread just to look for a stream link. Yes, youtube is another shitty obscure streaming platform for minors, and there is no problem, that TL has no full support of it, because embedding it is incredibly difficult technical task, which only top programmers are capable of. Did I understand your point? quote me where i said "youtube is shitty" (or even implied it), once you do that think about whether or not you understand my point
It is exactly, when you say, that that the problem of SSL is that youtube (second alexa rank site in the world) is not supported on tl (1398th alexa rank site in the world).
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On May 26 2017 21:36 aedeph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2017 21:28 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 21:14 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 20:52 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 19:26 aedeph wrote:On May 26 2017 16:19 TT1 wrote:On May 26 2017 05:19 Bonyth wrote:
I think the same, Mind was never ahead. He was slightly behind, just so slightly to keep the game entertaining for us, viewers.
Also, I think SSL threads deserve much more attention from TL community, it's a really great tournament with great korean casting (sorry english casters, I prefer korean since I like the way it hypes me). they're not doing themselves any favors by using youtube as their platform, can't embed the stream on TL. I guess, that's the problem of TL, not SSL. Someone is asking for TL to support SSL, im bringing up a reason why that might be a challenge. TL is a means to market your event, if SPOTV can't do their part and their viewership numbers are in the toilet (even their korean stream doesn't get a lot of viewers) then that's on them.. not TL. Not everyone is gonna browse an LR thread just to look for a stream link. Yes, youtube is another shitty obscure streaming platform for minors, and there is no problem, that TL has no full support of it, because embedding it is incredibly difficult technical task, which only top programmers are capable of. Did I understand your point? quote me where i said "youtube is shitty" (or even implied it), once you do that think about whether or not you understand my point It is exactly, when you say, that that the problem of SSL is that youtube (second alexa rank site in the world) is not supported on tl (1398th alexa rank site in the world).
What exactly are you trying to say? SPOTV is hosting an offline event with a korean and english broadcasting team and their korean stream gets around ~1.5k viewers, their english stream gets ~500 viewers. Thats just terrible business management.. simple as that. Why are you talking about alexa rankings? That's completely irrelevant..
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I normally have no problem watching the English SSL casters but yesterday was bad.
Seeing the 3rd hatchery in Light vs Hero game: he is going for hydra burst... (it's a ZvT!)
The casters just tried too hard to create fake hype based on their misread/poor knowledge of the game and instead, confused viewers with misinformation.
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On May 26 2017 21:52 Sd13 wrote:
I normally have no problem watching the English SSL casters but yesterday was bad.
Seeing the 3rd hatchery in Light vs Hero game: he is going for hydra burst... (it's a ZvT!)
The casters just tried too hard to create fake hype based on their misread/poor knowledge of the game and instead, confused viewers with misinformation.
Wooowww that's a pretty extreme lack of basic knowledge of the game...unless they were just joking. Either way, it's apparent these dudes don't know shit about the game so I'm glad I only watched the Korean cast (despite not knowing Korean). No one can match the energy of the Korean commentators. If we're going to watch an English cast it should definitely be one with detailed analysis (or at least basic game knowledge).
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So the quarter finals are set to start in one hour, but there is no event listed on TL and no thread yet? Is Liquipedia wrong or did everybody forget about Soulkey vs Mind :D?
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United States4883 Posts
I'll LR thread ina sec and try to get the calendar event up.
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real bad control from mind across the map in that game. He just kept losing groups of units that were afk
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EPT
