[ASL2] Ro8 Bisu vs Sea - Page 14

On January 03 2017 13:59 Descent wrote:
Is someone going to make a thread for the Ro8 match between BeSt and hero in a few hours?

On January 03 2017 01:41 Letmelose wrote:


Flash's pick for the greatest geniuses (coincidently all players renowned for being lazy, not sure about Life) he encountered during his entire career was composed of NaDa (the greatest genius of all), ChoJJa, Sea, and Life (from Starcraft 2). If Sea had even a fraction of the discipline that Flash had, or the composure of emotions that Flash had, he could have been truly one of the greats, in my opinion. His ability to switch gears for games where he wasn't under huge pressure (such as the round of eight match that just took place), even if he wasn't in the best form was severely over-looked by some in my opinion. Truly one of the greatest talents the game had seen.

On January 03 2017 16:30 Lunaticman wrote:


Yeah I agree, I can almost imagine it in my mind. He approaches every match as a solo que monster, putting little to no effort in the bigger games. He just plays on autopilots and still manages to almost beat most of the greatest players.

A good point from you being that he probably is very lazy, if he just applied himself more I think he could have been the TvT rival Flash never had

On January 03 2017 12:14 Letmelose wrote:


Bisu had the benefit of playing with some of the most brilliant minds in the match-up PvT, which coupled with his fantastic abilities as a Brood War player in general (non-stop production of units, great small scale micro-management, and the ability to execute certain build paths without skipping a single beat), allowed him to gain great success in the match-up, but his qualities outside of that was so lackluster at times (I won't even mention how he used carriers).

All it took was an off day for him to throw away massive leads by literally attack moving his entire army and hoping for the best, which would come back to bite him on the ass even by players who weren't that good, or were way past their prime such as Iris, which was the reason he lost his final game by literally throwing away his army to defeat himself in what was his final KeSPA officiated best of five series ever.

+ Show Spoiler +

After Flash overcame him in terms of skill, Bisu was only able to defeat him in a ProLeague setting where SK Telecom T1 had three separate cards ready for action (FanTaSy, BeSt, and Bisu), while Flash had to prepare for all three. FanTaSy and BeSt were sent to dispose of Flash ten times in their ProLeague careers, while Bisu was used more sparingly, and used only on maps that was heavily biased against terrans in TvP (Neo Chain Reaction, and Aztec). Even then, Bisu had to rely heavily on abusive builds that maximized his god-like small scale zealot micro-management skills and multi-tasking to gain a head start early on. Hardly indicative of how he mastered the match-up, rather, an indication of the luxuries he enjoyed as a member of SK Telecom T1 who had several routes of sniping Flash.

Upsets happen all the time. All it takes is a smartly planned series, and a series of unfortunate events that can lead to insurmountable leads for the player of lesser skill. We've seen it happen before, where the better player does reasonably well given the circumstances given to him, but cannot perform to the degree where he can overcome the opposing player both in terms of skill, and the advantages gained by the other player through luck, preparation, or map imbalance.

Lady luck was definitely on Sea's side yesterday, and this series definitely isn't indicative of Bisu's skill, however, even on an incredibly bad day, you have to make the most of what you have. Game two is just one of those WTF moments that leaves so much to be desired, and it wasn't one of the games where the circumstances were beyond Bisu's control.

All it takes is for Bisu to not attack move his maxed out army and praying it all works out, and we have a game four at our hands. Even after all the bad luck he has, Bisu is now facing Sea on Benzene, a map Sea thinks is impossible to beat a great protoss like Bisu in a straight-up macro-management game. Even after all the bad luck, the build order deficits, and all the minor mistakes that we don't often see from Bisu, we still probably would have seen a full five set series, if Bisu didn't go full retard mode, and made an execution error that has been popping up every now and again whenever he feels like attack moving is the way to win versus top level terran players.

It's okay to lose 0-3 to a player of Sea's calibre under certain contexts, shit happens. Under the unfortunate circumstances seen from yesterday's series, we saw how badly Bisu's weaknesses in the match-up can manifest themselves and ruin not only Bisu's chances of a five game series, but our expectations of a competitive series. That was what I was pointing out. I don't even need him to have the skills of some of gods of the battlefield, just not attack move his entire army like a 40 APM newb and expect to win.

On January 03 2017 17:23 [[Starlight]] wrote:


Didn't Fantasy win like 40%+ of his games vs Flash?

On January 02 2017 20:31 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

just wait til [Best] plays zvps god

On January 03 2017 19:44 Miragee wrote:


Couldn't agree more with this.



Yup, they are 13-10 in favour of Flash.

On January 05 2017 00:22 tedster wrote:
Fantasy had 5 finals appearances and an OSL win, I think it's a big stretch to say he didn't live up to his potential even if he missed a few golds.

On January 05 2017 00:22 tedster wrote:
Fantasy had 5 finals appearances and an OSL win, I think it's a big stretch to say he didn't live up to his potential even if he missed a few golds.

On January 05 2017 16:28 Letmelose wrote:
FanTaSy was one of the most famous players for practicing insane hours. I think FanTaSy had an even better work ethic than Flash (I think Flash said he was very proud of his work ethic, but had to give it to Jaedong or FanTaSy from the rumours he heard), but Flash was definitely more talented. Sea was insanely talented, but was way too laid back (almost everybody on Afreeca mentioned how he half-assed it). You can't be laid back and win championships unless you have unimaginable levels of talent like NaDa.

FanTaSy can be proud for achieving the following things in his career.

1) Eventually overcoming Flash as the best terran player of his race even if it was only due to the circumstances, or temporary in nature (we will never find out).
2) Being the only terran in history to reach multiple finals of the individual leagues apart from the bonjwas (BoxeR, NaDa, iloveoov, and Flash)
3) Reaching the more OGN StarLeague finals than anybody in history except for BoxeR and July, both of whom have much longer careers than he has.
4) Being one of the six players in history with a career win rate of over 60% (meaning that they are the only ones in history who finished their careers without sucking for years on end), alongside iloveoov, all four of Taek-Beng-Lee-Ssang, and EffOrt.
5) Being the sole inventor of late-mech, the most game changing meta-game discovery since the PvZ revolution spear headed by Bisu.

Not bad for a terran with relatively slow APM, forgettable bionic play, and some one who relied quite heavily on his execution of vulture harassment for his prided match-up of TvP.

+ Show Spoiler +

Some of the vulture micro-management he displayed still makes me shake my head in disbelief.

I'm not sure if he had much potential (I think Sea shits all over him in this regard), but his work ethic, and diligence was probably unmatched by any other terran players of the modern era. Considering how the skills of players who were considered as the best in terms of sheer skill (Jaedong and Bisu) for the other races were gained by sheer practice, not talent, perhaps FanTaSy would have gone on to achieve more if his career. Maybe Flash was complacent after being the number one player of his race for so long, and would have gotten the incentive to practice hardcore in order to surpass FanTaSy with his superior talent. Flash always said on stream that he was confident of reaching the number one spot again, even after he got shut-down by FanTaSy in the last ever BO5 he played. We will never know.

On January 03 2017 13:34 FlaShFTW wrote:

Its like a bucket for tears

On January 07 2017 09:16 Ghost151 wrote:

Oh, that works too.


I saw it as "mopping the floor with Bisu," which was pretty accurate lol. Blame Bisu's bad play or Sea's strong showing, he still capitalized when the opportunity presented itself.

Not disappointed as Sea is one of my favorite players and I never considered Bisu that great by comparison when the Protoss field has so many good examples, but even I expected more than a 0-3 sweep out of him. Hilarious.