|
On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Dragoons counter Wraiths very well :/ and we all know Goons and Zealots are the bread and butter of PvT. I think it's going to be a waste of money for T overall
Maybe if more people play like Rainbow who goes Carrier all the time, Wraiths may be half decent for TvP
Er, nvm.. i thought I saw Wraith instead of Dropship
|
On July 24 2006 12:45 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 12:08 Orome wrote:
Another thing, whenever Boxer loses people tend to question his abilities in general straight away. Don't, he's lost two games, get over it, he's still one of the very best players in the world and perfectly able to beat any Protoss in a bo5. \ Wrong. Boxer fans tend to mindlessly NOT question his abilities enough. He's one of the very best players in the world, correct. Beat any Protoss in a bo5? No.
You're the perfect example. He loses one TvP and already:
On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP.
Oov is doing much worse than Boxer at the moment, but noone would ever question his skill. I don't know how long you've been on this website, but for as long as I can remember, whenever Boxer did badly, people would say he was generally not skilled enough. Nada's been in a slump for like forever, and people only blame it on his father dying/him being unlucky, but never on his actual skill.
|
On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Agreed, that's totally incomprehensible. I vaguely remember Xellos (I think) dropping once and the Toss was completely helpless.
|
Orome, people judge Boxer that way because Nada and OOv are standard players. they don't try as much (or at all) innovative strategies as Boxer/rely on micro that gets easily countered at times. Shinwa vs. Boxer on Cultivation Period is a good example of it
|
I partly agree with that, but Boxer's style of playing is very close to that of other pros these days.
|
Yeah, I guess I'm exaggerating about that "easy to counter" bit.. IIRC the game was close, but still micro was the most important thing back there as for early finish TvZ games
|
On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Speedlots in the confined space of an expo are adequate for this even with mines etc. No room for gay vult micro. starport and Dropship are ~2 tanks and on maps like Luna that's a lot.
|
On July 24 2006 14:14 Resonate wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say. Speedlots in the confined space of an expo are adequate for this even with mines etc. No room for gay vult micro. starport and Dropship are ~2 tanks and on maps like Luna that's a lot.
I disagree with that. Especially when all the Terrans go for double armory upgrades so early these days... they'll need a startport sooner or later anyway. Imho when the T has two expansions or more, one dropship is absolutely nothing, especially when it can allow you to shut off your opponent's income by 1/3 as Boxer could have done today.
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On July 24 2006 13:39 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 12:45 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 12:08 Orome wrote:
Another thing, whenever Boxer loses people tend to question his abilities in general straight away. Don't, he's lost two games, get over it, he's still one of the very best players in the world and perfectly able to beat any Protoss in a bo5. \ Wrong. Boxer fans tend to mindlessly NOT question his abilities enough. He's one of the very best players in the world, correct. Beat any Protoss in a bo5? No. You're the perfect example. He loses one TvP and already: Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. Oov is doing much worse than Boxer at the moment, but noone would ever question his skill. I don't know how long you've been on this website, but for as long as I can remember, whenever Boxer did badly, people would say he was generally not skilled enough. Nada's been in a slump for like forever, and people only blame it on his father dying/him being unlucky, but never on his actual skill.
hm, my ignorant brain only remembers "nada only practices one build for each matchup on a given map, so opponents have adapted to him"
|
On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
The cost? Starport + addon + dropship.
Protoss would have shuttle at one point.
|
|
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
|
On July 25 2006 15:57 [X]Ken_D wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say. The cost? Starport + addon + dropship. Protoss would have shuttle at one point
Well starport is needed for +2/+3 upgrades, and most T go for them at the latest right after their second expo nowadays. So it's basically 150-150 (addon 50-50, dropship 100-100), which imho isn't that much when you have 3+ bases. And even if the P has shuttles, he needs to have static defence (either goons, canons or a lot of speedzeals) to deal with 4 dropped vultures before they kill tons of probes.
It might have a psychological effect as well and force the P into a more defensive stance (like, putting a few goons at some strategic points or running around the map to try to catch the dropship), while the T masses up.
It definitely has some cons but I'm convinced it can be worth it against all those P who block their second expo ramp with pylons (while putting at most one goon behind the wall). In only a few replays I've seen the T counter with vult drop and it was decisive every single time. If you have startport for upgrades (or intend to build one for them anyway) and spot such a defenseless base, I can't see how this isn't worth it.
|
The resources for a 4 vult drop to take out a defenseless expo? Even with speed zeals toss is going to be royally fucked if he doesnt bring enough to plow through the inevitable minefield on the ramp/pylon area. Hell he might even have to settle for the Terran moving his mass metal push even closer to the Protoss base if the threat requires some real attention.
|
|
|
On July 25 2006 16:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
and Casy! ! !
Casy is very strong TvT and decent TvZ, but Jathin said TvP. Casy got rocked in the 3rd/4th place spot by Pusan in the 1st Shinhan OSL.
|
pissed at Boxer, he was pretty bad at the first game.
OT: Whats with Bisu's look? He is like a kid with like a sad-ass mourn. Watched few of his VODs lately, his PvZ opponets were pretty bad, more like rookie players.
(how dipshit was Stay to group 6 overlords w/o speed together?? and Bisu's 3 corsairs just kill in 10 seconds. OMFG, Stay has 1 hydra trying to defend the overlord)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
