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Game 1: Boxer vs firebathero @ 815 III
+ Show Spoiler +
Game 2: Stay vs Bisu[shield] @ 815 III
+ Show Spoiler +Stay <<<<<<< Bisu[shield]
Game 3: Winner of Game 1 vs Winner of Game 2 @ Cultivation Period.
+ Show Spoiler +firebathero > Bisu[shield] gg firebathero advances to the next OSL
Game 4: Loser of Game 1 vs Loser of Game 2 @ Cultivation Period
+ Show Spoiler +Boxer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stay
Game 5: Loser of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 4 @ Rush Hour III
+ Show Spoiler +Bisu[shield] > Boxer impressive play from Bisu as he leapfrogs the Emperor for a place in the next OSL
irrelevent but- AUUGH FUCK I HAD MY WISDOM TOOTH OUT AND IT HURTS IT HURTS IT HURTS
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Don't be a pussy, it's not that bad...
Just have to cool it all the time, although it's annoying.
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I got work! NO! NO! NO! Not Fair!!!
EDIT - And I dunno anyone who doesn't expect Boxer out of this group.
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i don't know about firebathero but Stay and Bisu are very capable imo. But obviously Boxer is head and shoulders above everyboday.
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On July 24 2006 02:16 FireBlast! wrote:
i don't know about firebathero but Stay and Bisu are very capable imo. But obviously Boxer is head and shoulders above everyboday.
oh snap i got in time.
I think Boxer and STay gonna advance
Fireblast! who is firebathero?
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
return of the TLnet Afreeca room!
room name: TLTL
password: 4321
my id: kayyioh
This time, I'm going to be at home, so no screen savers, and no dropped connections. Hopefully third time's the charm.
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On July 24 2006 02:18 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Fireblast! who is firebathero?
All I know is that he is a Terran user and a member of Samsung Khan, and that his Korean name is Lee Sung Eun.
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Boxer = God and Bisu = next Protoss dominator ^_^
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On July 24 2006 02:24 HonestTea wrote:
return of the TLnet Afreeca room!
room name: TLTL
password: 4321
my id: kayyioh
This time, I'm going to be at home, so no screen savers, and no dropped connections. Hopefully third time's the charm.
Me thank you from heaven
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On July 24 2006 02:24 HonestTea wrote:
return of the TLnet Afreeca room!
room name: TLTL
password: 4321
my id: kayyioh
This time, I'm going to be at home, so no screen savers, and no dropped connections. Hopefully third time's the charm.
working, fine. thanks 
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On July 24 2006 02:24 HonestTea wrote:
return of the TLnet Afreeca room!
room name: TLTL
password: 4321
my id: kayyioh
This time, I'm going to be at home, so no screen savers, and no dropped connections. Hopefully third time's the charm.
it says something weird everytime i join
사운드 혹은 그래픽 디바이스 장치설정에 문제가 있습니다.Shit its like that for every channel i join.
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hmm firebathero has advanced beating Xellos and hery[hyo] in the process, which is evidence for a very nice TvT.
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firebathero uses ID "braQ" in game hmm..
anyway game 1 @ 815 III:
BOXER orange terran @ 7
firebathero teal terran @ 1
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Report will be welcomed ^^
Thanks in advance
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On July 24 2006 02:42 FireBlast! wrote:
hmm firebathero has advanced beating Xellos and hery[hyo] in the process, which is evidence for a very nice TvT.
you know whats wrong? I cant get in and it does that msg always
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boxer makes 2 rines that block his ramp, floats his rax diagonally and lifts+lands his fac onto lower ground.
firebathero makes an early cc in his base and goes 2 fac with a rine and vult at his ramp. he also makes an additional fac.
boxer has made a starport with addon, researching cloak.
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boxer's first wraith flies towards firebat's base, now cloaked and looks around thoroughly.
firebat has 2 facs in his base making gollies, he also has a starport with an addon, likely producing a dropship.
boxer seems to have the upper hand as firebat's newly made dropship is failing to move out due to the cloaked wraiths.
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meanwhile boxer expands to his nat, and sends 4 tanks he has made from his 1 fac on lower ground towards firebat.
firebat manages to land his cc and unloads his goliathss from his dropships onto lower ground, as he now possesses comsat to deal with wraiths.
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On July 24 2006 02:55 HiTexas wrote:
Boxer GG :[
WTF?
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first battle- boxer's tanks + cloak wraiths meet firebat's dropship+gollie+scvs near firebat's natural.
boxer loses out, but only just.
boxer attempts to expand at 11 o clock main but suffers heavy damage from goliaths at his nat.
firebat drops gollies onto the 11 o clock main and kills boxer's expo attempt. he soon follows this up with goliath drop in boxer's main, which is defenceless and Boxer GGs.
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he isn't out yet though, right?
he can win losers round and move to final?
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thx fireblast! for the reports
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 24 2006 02:24 FireBlast! wrote:All I know is that he is a Terran user and a member of Samsung Khan, and that his Korean name is Lee Sung Eun.
And he's the guy anytime practiced with when preparing for his semi vs Oov and final vs Boxer, I think.
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i think boxer should've focused on destroying those dropships. the first one could've been taken out easily with a wraith sacrifice, and the next would've taken some focus by firebathero to defend.
that, and boxer's one fact double cc build probably wasn't a good idea. those tanks he sent towards firebat's base was all he had. ><
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On July 24 2006 03:01 Zeto wrote:
i think boxer should've focused on destroying those dropships. the first one could've been taken out easily with a wraith sacrifice, and the next would've taken some focus by firebathero to defend.
that, and boxer's one fact double cc build probably wasn't a good idea. those tanks he sent towards firebat's base was all he had. ><
i think it was pretty even uptil the battle, which firebat did well to come out even, and then it was a matter of difference in build order.
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On July 24 2006 03:01 Zeto wrote:
i think boxer should've focused on destroying those dropships. the first one could've been taken out easily with a wraith sacrifice, and the next would've taken some focus by firebathero to defend.
was thinking the same. he had 4 wraiths i think, he could easily take out the dropships and sacrifice the tanks.
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omg stay is 0-4 against p?
why the fuck did i vote for this guy 
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stay the protoss-phobic zerg vs bisu the shield starting @ 815
Stay sprawns 11
Bisu slobsters 1
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On July 24 2006 03:09 Zeto wrote:omg stay is 0-4 against p? why the fuck did i vote for this guy
LOL, hehe go Bisu
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Bisu's probe scouts the right way. he is attempting FE, with a pylon on lower ground and a nexus warping.
Stay goes pool first.. 12ish
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Stay's hatch is up at his nat, and he upgrades his hatch at main to lair very early.
Bisu happily mines away, adding 2 cannons and a gate.
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1st cannon up and running with a warping gateway in front. Zerg hatch at nat done. Probe still alive inside 11 main.
Hydra den down and....probe's killed with den just beyond its sight range.
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Stay opts for a hydra den in his main and finally manages to kill the scouting probe, which has lived longer and seen more than Queen Victoria
Bisu has a core and a citadel of adun up. He also adds additional cannons and a gate way to fortify his natural, seeing the hydra tech.
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Bisu now has a stargate too, which produces a corsair that kills the scouting lord in his main, then glides across to tickle a few ovies in Stay's main.
Stay now has a few lings and lurkers trying to keep a chain on Bisu, but it certainly looks good for the protoss.
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Corsair building from Bisu's lone starport under nat. Meanwhile, lurks morphing lining up the left side of the map
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Bisu now has 3+ corsairs patrolling the skies, OMG which massacre 5+ hapless ovies above Stay's nat.. He also has 10+ zealots awaiting observers at his nat.
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Lurks try to advance upon nat but pulled away from the 4-5 cannon. 3 Cannons aligned in front with no obvious opening for the zerg.
meanwhile, 3 sairs masseceing ovies at z nat!! with but 1 defending hydra bisu managed to mciro well enough to take out most of the ovies.
Shuttle making its way toward 7'o clock expansion. Closely following the sairs warding off the scourges. 4 zealots dropped. Temporarily halted mining but no lasting damage.
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Stay attempts an expo at 7 o clock main which is defended by a handful of hydras and lurks. Bisu drops 4 zealots using a shuttle but Stay just about defends, with the hatchery on low life.
One look at Bisu's base and about 25~ zeals, 6+ sairs and observers charge out towards Stay's main.
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Bisu now uses his shuttle to ferry his entire army into Stay's main! LOL
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Heavy losses for Stay, his lair is killed with many drones killed, hydras manage to defend but as soon as that skirmish is over another line of zealots run across to deal with 7 o clock expo for once and for all.
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About 2 full groups of lots running to catch stay off guard at nat but turned back by massive sunkens.
Great move by Bisu! He's slow transporting lots up cliff of stay and from the FP screen of Stay he didn't see it till it was too late. Lots seperate into 3 groups! 1 finished hatch at main. 2nd group chased after the drones. and the reminaing lots under cliff goes toward 7'o clock expansion.
Gosu timing/play by Bisu.
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Bisu also now has the 3 o clock expansion running.
Stay tries a counter with hydras and lurks but theyre overpowered by pure zeals :D
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Stay making a desperate counter at Bisu's nat, 1 Group hydra + 5-6. Soon had to make a run for it as mad zealots return from destroying the 7 expo.
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Bisu's army legs it out to strike down with great vengeance and furious anger, Stay shits his pants and GGs
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With pretty much nothing left, Stay ggs.
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Oh ho, fav. mu up next  .
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Hahaha, pure zeals, awesome :D
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bisu really owned
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bisu vs firebathero
boxer vs stay
pretty interesting who will advance at the end
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Bisu v FBH next, then Boxer v Stay
winner of Boxer vs stay plays loser of Bisu v FBH correct ?
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On July 24 2006 03:28 AyOnY wrote:
Bisu v FBH next, then Boxer v Stay
winner of Boxer vs stay plays loser of Bisu v FBH correct ?
you're right man
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On July 24 2006 03:28 cwc)DeRan( wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 03:28 AyOnY wrote:
Bisu v FBH next, then Boxer v Stay
winner of Boxer vs stay plays loser of Bisu v FBH correct ? you're right man
kk ^_^
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On July 24 2006 03:28 AyOnY wrote:
Bisu v FBH next, then Boxer v Stay
winner of Boxer vs stay plays loser of Bisu v FBH correct ?
erect.
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Boxer vs. Zerg should be hopefully good
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On July 24 2006 03:32 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Boxer vs. Zerg should be hopefully good
yeah, very tough group for Stay to have drawn. (and Cultivation Period too T_T)
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On July 24 2006 03:36 cwc)DeRan( wrote:
boxer will win this game
oh its boxer vs. stay?
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On July 24 2006 03:36 cwc)DeRan( wrote:
boxer will win this game
yes he is so gosu he wins games he isnt in :D
firebathero vs Bisu[shield] @ Cultivation Period. Winner advances to the next OSL!
firebat - green terran at 3
bisu - pink protoss at 12
boxer - omnipresent
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On July 24 2006 03:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:oh its boxer vs. stay?
yes and it's on cultivation period
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Bisu vs. Firebat On cultivation period
Bisu at 12 Firebat at 3
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Pink? I don't think i've seen that colour oO;;
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On July 24 2006 03:38 cwc)DeRan( wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 03:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On July 24 2006 03:36 cwc)DeRan( wrote:
boxer will win this game oh its boxer vs. stay? yes and it's on cultivation period
Boxer lost to shinwha on cultivation oh it broke my heart T.T
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On July 24 2006 03:39 AyOnY wrote:
Pink? I don't think i've seen that colour oO;; Purpleish pink
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bisu sends his probe the wrong way to, 9. he opts for 2 gate opening.
firebat also sends his scv the wrong way, he has a rine and a fac building. he is soon greeted by Bisu's first pioneering zealot.
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SMart thinking by firebat to cancel his scv building factory for a second.
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Bisu's zealot can only score 1 scv kill (the one building the fac), firebat's building placement is immaculate and has 3 rines attacking in between the fac depot rax with no threat from the zeal.
the zeal retreats, his fac is completed and out comes a vulture that heads towards Bisu's main.. it is greeted and annihilated by 2 gigantic mechanical protoss spiders of doom.
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I never realized afreeca has an option called kin 던지기
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meanwhile back at his main, firebat has blocked his entrance with a bunker, his floated rax and a sieged tank.
bisu's army of 4 goons and that veteran zealot pressures outside but to no avail. he expands to his nat.
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bisu's army get bored and kill those neutral units in the centre.
firebat slowly moves out and fortifies his choke with another bunker+turret, landing his cc. he's played very safely and securely.
Bisu goes for the macro-heavy option after his nat and adds further couple of gates before any tech.
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Bisu is clearing the neautral buildings in the middle to help flank
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
On July 24 2006 03:42 FireBlast! wrote:
2 gigantic mechanical protoss spiders of doom.
Haha, nice expression :D
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fuck 0/2
-.-
and for sure 1/2 max -.-;
bad day commander ~~;
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firebat adds 2 more facs slowly expanding outwards again with further bunker + turrets + tanks. turtle ftw.
Bisu prepares a speed shuttle meanwhile with a good number of goon zeal.
the shuttle flies over the terran base, seeing whats up. firebat is playing as conservatively and safely as possible, advancing slowly but surely.
Bisu turns up macro-mode and 20 zeals + 10 goons charge in. firebat fights it off just about, starts to look very good for him.
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Bisu is on red alert and adds more gates knowing he is in danger of being run over by mech very soon.
firebat attempts to gain further ground and Bisu decides to go for a second attack to stop his opponent.
another close fought battle as their armies are reduced to 3 zeals + 1 goon and 3 vults.
both players reinforce no-man's land with more units, very tense, very close
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wow what a great fucking game!!
both these players are awesome.
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slowly but surely firebat manages to nibble his way towards bisu;s main. he's knocking at his front door now with siege fire. looks tough for Bisu, not even his 10 gate macro can save him now.
the final wave of zeals fail and he types out
GG
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yeah, a good addition to the next OSL
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boxer vs. bisu next (lol)
firebat deserves to be in the next OSL, hopefully Boxer's TvP is strong today.
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Firebathero advancing makes it harder for boxer actually. He has to go through bisu.
Bisu has mad nice macro it kept on coming and i crashed so i couldnt see how bisu lost evertything.
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damn hes good, nice to see a terran that (seemingly) can handle protoss
very sad to choose between bisu and boxer
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On July 24 2006 03:55 Slipgoon wrote:
damn his good, nice to see a terran that (seemingly) can handle protoss
?
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On July 24 2006 03:55 Slipgoon wrote:
damn his good, nice to see a terran that (seemingly) can handle protoss
very sad to choose between bisu and boxer
err midas, nada, oov?
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yes? (psst oov sucks)EDIT: how about sea[shield]?
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On July 24 2006 03:54 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Firebathero advancing makes it harder for boxer actually. He has to go through bisu.
Bisu has mad nice macro it kept on coming and i crashed so i couldnt see how bisu lost evertything.
well it was a do-or-die play. he didn't even make robotics for observers, he went straight for zealot speed and made a lot of zealots.
it didn't break firebat's defenses though (it was close, bisu destroyed the middle buildings to help zealots run by, but firebathero just replaced them with ebay, rax, bunker, supply depots all the way up towards bisu's nat), and you could see afterwards, when the camera showed bisu's reaction, he knew he had a hard time ahead of him.
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On July 24 2006 03:54 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Firebathero advancing makes it harder for boxer actually. He has to go through bisu.
yes, but map will be rush hour where tvp = 15-3
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On July 24 2006 04:00 Cedric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 03:54 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Firebathero advancing makes it harder for boxer actually. He has to go through bisu.
yes, but map will be rush hour where tvp = 15-3
rh3, really? boxer has shown some sweet timing and builds on that map against protoss. bisu is unpredictable though, boxer probably hasn't studied bisu's pvt at all. this could go either way.
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On July 24 2006 03:56 Elsi wrote:
Boxer vs Stay next?
yep ^_^
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Awww man the two players that i wanted in the OSL gotta battle it out T_T
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54-21 tvz record ^_^
boxer looks different
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starting
Stay vs BOXERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR @ Cultivation Period. Lim yo hwan fighting!
Boxer 12
Stay 6
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all of boxer's scvs stay in his main. he goes depot first. normal SBB build for the emperor.
Stay decides on a 11ish pool followed by a hatch at his nat. boxer's scv arrives at stay's base as stay's first 6 lings head into boxer's main. half the lings die to rine fire.
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boxer's battlecruisers yamato 12 of stay;s devourers...
Boxer carries on rine production, keeping his entrance locked tight.
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boxer tries his luck and moves out as his first two medics join his rines...
they stim and run into stay's nat, speedily kills the 3 sunkens and the firebats join as lings hurry to do something about it. GG
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fucking shit.
he makes it look SO easy.
every single time.
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emperor's haxxor timing ftw
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boxer is very strong against zerg user
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On July 24 2006 04:15 Zeto wrote:
fucking shit.
he makes it look SO easy.
every single time.
if i did it i would have had like 1 marine left one medic haha.
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On July 24 2006 04:16 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 04:15 Zeto wrote:
fucking shit.
he makes it look SO easy.
every single time. if i did it i would have had like 1 marine left one medic haha.
dude, i'm serious. i try timing shit like that against 3 sunkens and yeah, i end up with NOTHING -_-
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He breaks it. I have nothing left and i dont break it. Ill probbaly kill no sunkens.
-_-;;
Hehe honesttea switched to ocn.
Whats the girl commentator doing in the middle?
Oh Bisu is good looking
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On July 24 2006 04:20 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
He breaks it. I have nothing left and i dont break it. Ill probbaly kill no sunkens.
-_-;;
Hehe honesttea switched to ocn.
Whats the girl commentator doing in the middle?
Commentating ? ;D
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final game. augh i love both players...
RUSH HOUR III
Boxer spawns 3 as Lim Yo Hwan fighting echoes all around the crowd.
Bisu spawns 7
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On July 24 2006 04:27 AyOnY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 04:20 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
He breaks it. I have nothing left and i dont break it. Ill probbaly kill no sunkens.
-_-;;
Hehe honesttea switched to ocn.
Whats the girl commentator doing in the middle? Commentating ? ;D
-_-;;
edit. i meant whats she doing there
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both players scout each other's bases.
Bisu has range upgrading now, 2 gates.
boxer has 5 rines now moving out followed by a tank.
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boxer starts making cc at his nat as he begins to pressure the 3 goons that welcome his units as they make their way across the bridges. a standard FD as vults follow, a little micro battle, goons fall back but eventually kill most of the rines and boxer is driven back, with his cc completed now.
bisu tries to counter asap with his obs out now, 5 goons run up clearing the path of any mines.
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sieged tanks halt their advance and now both players consolidate their game plans, bisu adds more gates and boxer adds more facs,
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bisu decides to try and take 9 o clock mineral only expo, now starts to mix a few zeals as citedel of adun is up.
boxer senses another timing and advances with his fac vult army.
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the vults mine all around the bridges and head towards the 9 o clock expo, which is blocked off by 3 pylons. they retreat as goonzeal arrive to scare them off.
nothing major follows, just a few small fights
both players add more facs and gates...
Boxer gambles and tries a further expo at 5 and positions his units there. Bisu feels the threat and both armies collide, Bisu's superior macro shows and goonzeal engulf the tank+vult line.
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looks tough for boxer T_T
Bisu takes the gas expo too at 9, his army running around the centr area to keep peace around the region. Boxer tries a hidden expo at 11 but it's a desparate attempt at best.
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boxer tries for the 5 o clock expo again but this time Bisu's army is big enough to come from two sides, they sweep everything there and move up towards boxer's nat
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Bisu moves in, macro macro macro
boxer struggles to defend
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This guy has nice macro
not even carrier or arbs
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the 11 o clock is complete, boxer starts to run it as he just about fights off the attack. he reclaims his natural, although the damage is definitely done. Bisu is very far ahead in all aspects of play.
11 o clock is also scouted by an observer.
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bisu's management and macro is very impressive, worthy to be called pusan's successor
boxer's 11 o clock is harassed by a duo of zeals, and bisu knows not to prolong the game and wipes Boxer's natural and everything there off the face of Rush Hour III.
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lol boxer goes to army right now
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err i sense that OSL is making a new format
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On July 24 2006 04:47 b_unnies wrote:
err i sense that OSL is making a new format
hahaha ^_^
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Bleh. I love Bisu but that still blows.
At least he's in the next MSL. He can't be in both starleagues every single time. -_-
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Wow first time ive seen Bisu and im impressed. He has a better macro than pusan currently i think and he doesnt cheese as much. And hes good looking aha.
Cant say im not disappointed that Boxer didnt get in though T___T
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On July 24 2006 04:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Wow first time ive seen Bisu and im impressed. He has a better macro than pusan currently i think and he doesnt cheese as much. And hes good looking aha.
Cant say im not disappointed that Boxer didnt get in though T___T
all i was about to say
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
Yeah, there are Bisu's reps here and there and I was amazed by his play, especially his PvP. I might have like 5-10 replays of him, does anyone have much more than that ? 'cause with the loss of YaoYuan's old replays, it's likely we won't find many there.
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who the fuck is firebathero lol ? ; poor boxer btw i knew stay suxs he is the same as child some lucky guy who made it last season ...
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Firebathero <-- Bastard took out Boxer and Xellos -.-;;
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Oh god I think I'm dying. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING NOOOOOO T_T_T_T_T
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Anyone else think every protoss in the top 500 could take at least 1 game off of boxer in a bo5?
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God firebathero did it!!!!!!!!
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boxer tends to advance from a group of death but not from an easy group. just WTF
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think you underate the ability of progamers, there's such a strange gap between players :o
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wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;;
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was he in the MSL at least ?
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On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP.
cant they change the rules so he only gets tvz or something? we need boxer -__-;;
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I'd call Bisu one of the best PvP'ers. He is VERY talented, i am surprised MBC havent used him in any of 1x1's in ProLeague. firebathero is a very smart player. He also won KizOo Tourney twice in a row (2:0 vs aQua 1st time where he also beat Sea.Jy 2:1 in the Semi's, and 2:0 Sea.Jy in the 2nd one), then lost in his 3rd consecutive final to Sea.FireFist 1:2 (lol games though :/). He has amazing micro.
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On July 24 2006 09:23 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
I'd call Bisu one of the best PvP'ers. He is VERY talented, i am surprised MBC havent used him in any of 1x1's in ProLeague. firebathero is a very smart player. He also won KizOo Tourney twice in a row (2:0 vs aQua 1st time where he also beat Sea.Jy 2:1 in the Semi's, and 2:0 Sea.Jy in the 2nd one), then lost in his 3rd consecutive final to Sea.FireFist 1:2 (lol games though :/). He has amazing micro.
reps/source yo!
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Sweden33719 Posts
Well, bisu is fucking godly so I'm not that sad boxer didn't make it. I wanted both but, oh well, BISU FIGHTING!
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On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP.
His TvP rocks.
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On July 24 2006 09:52 PoP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. His TvP rocks.
how so? His early game strategy/tactics is amazing and does alot of vulture footwork from time to time, but his late game severely weakens over time, losing some serious momentum. (I've noticed that with that anytime finals and as well as the reach finals.) Strong opening, mediocre mid/late games.(although he is capable of comebacks from time to time, think the guy doesn't have as good timing as a 1st rate tvp'er like midas.)
Wait a minute, does his TvT suck more? :XX
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shit happens
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On July 24 2006 10:03 QuietIdiot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 09:52 PoP wrote:On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. His TvP rocks. how so? His early game strategy/tactics is amazing and does alot of vulture footwork from time to time, but his late game severely weakens over time, losing some serious momentum. (I've noticed that with that anytime finals and as well as the reach finals.) Strong opening, mediocre mid/late games.(although he is capable of comebacks from time to time, think the guy doesn't have as good timing as a 1st rate tvp'er like midas.) Wait a minute, does his TvT suck more? :XX
Boxer doesn't have good timing? It's what sets him apart from other progamers most nowadays. He's won TvP games purely because his opponents were so scared of his timing pushes. His only problem in TvP is that he can't manage large armies nearly as well as in the other MUs and that while his macro's not bad, it's not extraordinary either.
His TvT is great, except that he tends to slack off against weaker players, but that's been a problem of Boxer's for like forever.
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On July 24 2006 10:03 QuietIdiot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 09:52 PoP wrote:On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. His TvP rocks. how so? His early game strategy/tactics is amazing and does alot of vulture footwork from time to time, but his late game severely weakens over time, losing some serious momentum. (I've noticed that with that anytime finals and as well as the reach finals.) Strong opening, mediocre mid/late games.(although he is capable of comebacks from time to time, think the guy doesn't have as good timing as a 1st rate tvp'er like midas.)
I don't see any real macro problem anymore, it's still not oov-like but it's become really strong imho. His game vs Terato from last MSL is a good example.
He didn't lose because of his macro today, he lost because he failed a push at a crucial moment (probably underestimated Bisu's unit count). And I think that's like the only single problem regarding his TvP nowadays: he doesn't turtle enough, although it's pretty much become the only way to win in this matchup against a strong macro player (other than an early timing push, that is).
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On July 24 2006 10:03 QuietIdiot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 09:52 PoP wrote:On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. His TvP rocks. how so? His early game strategy/tactics is amazing and does alot of vulture footwork from time to time, but his late game severely weakens over time, losing some serious momentum. (I've noticed that with that anytime finals and as well as the reach finals.) Strong opening, mediocre mid/late games.(although he is capable of comebacks from time to time, think the guy doesn't have as good timing as a 1st rate tvp'er like midas.) Wait a minute, does his TvT suck more? :XX
Nope, his TvT is much better than TvP... Best reason I can find is he has pretty good records against Nada and iloveOOv, but totally gets owned by Midas and Xellos (esp. Xellos, but who doesn't lose to him in TvT? The only one player he has a jinx against is Nada, and that jinx isn't that bad) based on their records
Well, these days it's prety hard to tell. his tvp is improving macro-wise, he still relies on micro/dropships for tvt and as someone said he kinda slacks against 'weaker' players on like every match-up (Shinwa vs. Boxer Cultivation period anyone?)
BTW, didn't firebathero kicked Xellos out of ODL one time? :[
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On July 24 2006 11:15 bsj9 wrote:
he has pretty good records against Nada and iloveOOv, but totally gets owned by Midas and Xellos (esp. Xellos, but who doesn't lose to him in TvT? The only one player he has a jinx against is Nada, and that jinx isn't that bad)
Xellos' jinx against Nada is far worse than Boxer's against Xellos imho. Boxer is 1-6 (he won the last game a few weeks ago in proleague) vs Xellos and half of those losses come from the Olympus OSL semifinal. Nada on the other hand was 9-0 vs him before he got into a slump (now it's 11-4).
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Another thing, whenever Boxer loses people tend to question his abilities in general straight away. Don't, he's lost two games, get over it, he's still one of the very best players in the world and perfectly able to beat any Protoss in a bo5.
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Heres my Bisu[shield] reps: http://rapidshare.de/files/26871441/bisu.rar.html
Its a pack of 47. I scanned for dupes, but not too carefully. Also, I may not have several that may be at ygclan, or other rep sites. So, its not exactly complete, but its more then most of you guys probably have so I wanted to share. Bisu is one of my top 3 favorate players. He is one of the few players who often impresses me in pvp.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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On July 24 2006 12:07 Jathin wrote:
Boxer's TvP tends to be a one-trick pony. In other words, he goes for an early game push and if that fails then it's usually a downhill battle from there. He knows his endgame is weak so he'll do whatever possible to keep it from going that far.
Well, you think his tendancy to go for early timing pushes comes from the fact he knows his endgame is weak. That's a way to see it. What I think, though, is the opposite: his early pushes are what *make* his endgame look weak, since when they succeed, he often wins (short games), and when they fail, he often loses (midlong/long games) due to being behind for the rest.
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
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On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Dragoons counter Wraiths very well :/ and we all know Goons and Zealots are the bread and butter of PvT. I think it's going to be a waste of money for T overall
Maybe if more people play like Rainbow who goes Carrier all the time, Wraiths may be half decent for TvP
Er, nvm.. i thought I saw Wraith instead of Dropship
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On July 24 2006 12:45 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 12:08 Orome wrote:
Another thing, whenever Boxer loses people tend to question his abilities in general straight away. Don't, he's lost two games, get over it, he's still one of the very best players in the world and perfectly able to beat any Protoss in a bo5. \ Wrong. Boxer fans tend to mindlessly NOT question his abilities enough. He's one of the very best players in the world, correct. Beat any Protoss in a bo5? No.
You're the perfect example. He loses one TvP and already:
On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP.
Oov is doing much worse than Boxer at the moment, but noone would ever question his skill. I don't know how long you've been on this website, but for as long as I can remember, whenever Boxer did badly, people would say he was generally not skilled enough. Nada's been in a slump for like forever, and people only blame it on his father dying/him being unlucky, but never on his actual skill.
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On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Agreed, that's totally incomprehensible. I vaguely remember Xellos (I think) dropping once and the Toss was completely helpless.
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Orome, people judge Boxer that way because Nada and OOv are standard players. they don't try as much (or at all) innovative strategies as Boxer/rely on micro that gets easily countered at times. Shinwa vs. Boxer on Cultivation Period is a good example of it
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I partly agree with that, but Boxer's style of playing is very close to that of other pros these days.
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Yeah, I guess I'm exaggerating about that "easy to counter" bit.. IIRC the game was close, but still micro was the most important thing back there as for early finish TvZ games
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On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
Speedlots in the confined space of an expo are adequate for this even with mines etc. No room for gay vult micro. starport and Dropship are ~2 tanks and on maps like Luna that's a lot.
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On July 24 2006 14:14 Resonate wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say. Speedlots in the confined space of an expo are adequate for this even with mines etc. No room for gay vult micro. starport and Dropship are ~2 tanks and on maps like Luna that's a lot.
I disagree with that. Especially when all the Terrans go for double armory upgrades so early these days... they'll need a startport sooner or later anyway. Imho when the T has two expansions or more, one dropship is absolutely nothing, especially when it can allow you to shut off your opponent's income by 1/3 as Boxer could have done today.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On July 24 2006 13:39 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 12:45 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 12:08 Orome wrote:
Another thing, whenever Boxer loses people tend to question his abilities in general straight away. Don't, he's lost two games, get over it, he's still one of the very best players in the world and perfectly able to beat any Protoss in a bo5. \ Wrong. Boxer fans tend to mindlessly NOT question his abilities enough. He's one of the very best players in the world, correct. Beat any Protoss in a bo5? No. You're the perfect example. He loses one TvP and already: Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 08:38 Jathin wrote:On July 24 2006 08:34 superjoppe wrote:
wait a minute, no boxer in next osl? -___-;; Not 'til he learns how to TVP. Oov is doing much worse than Boxer at the moment, but noone would ever question his skill. I don't know how long you've been on this website, but for as long as I can remember, whenever Boxer did badly, people would say he was generally not skilled enough. Nada's been in a slump for like forever, and people only blame it on his father dying/him being unlucky, but never on his actual skill.
hm, my ignorant brain only remembers "nada only practices one build for each matchup on a given map, so opponents have adapted to him"
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On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say.
The cost? Starport + addon + dropship.
Protoss would have shuttle at one point.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On July 25 2006 15:57 [X]Ken_D wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2006 13:15 PoP wrote:
By the way, something's really bugging me with nowadays' TvPs. Often the P prevents direct vulture harrass by blocking one of his expo ramp with several pylons (while therefore not making any canon around the nexus). Why doesn't *any* T just make a starport and a dropship and just drop 4 damn vultures when they see that? That's a bit beyond me I must say. The cost? Starport + addon + dropship. Protoss would have shuttle at one point
Well starport is needed for +2/+3 upgrades, and most T go for them at the latest right after their second expo nowadays. So it's basically 150-150 (addon 50-50, dropship 100-100), which imho isn't that much when you have 3+ bases. And even if the P has shuttles, he needs to have static defence (either goons, canons or a lot of speedzeals) to deal with 4 dropped vultures before they kill tons of probes.
It might have a psychological effect as well and force the P into a more defensive stance (like, putting a few goons at some strategic points or running around the map to try to catch the dropship), while the T masses up.
It definitely has some cons but I'm convinced it can be worth it against all those P who block their second expo ramp with pylons (while putting at most one goon behind the wall). In only a few replays I've seen the T counter with vult drop and it was decisive every single time. If you have startport for upgrades (or intend to build one for them anyway) and spot such a defenseless base, I can't see how this isn't worth it.
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The resources for a 4 vult drop to take out a defenseless expo? Even with speed zeals toss is going to be royally fucked if he doesnt bring enough to plow through the inevitable minefield on the ramp/pylon area. Hell he might even have to settle for the Terran moving his mass metal push even closer to the Protoss base if the threat requires some real attention.
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On July 25 2006 16:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
and Casy! ! !
Casy is very strong TvT and decent TvZ, but Jathin said TvP. Casy got rocked in the 3rd/4th place spot by Pusan in the 1st Shinhan OSL.
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pissed at Boxer, he was pretty bad at the first game.
OT: Whats with Bisu's look? He is like a kid with like a sad-ass mourn. Watched few of his VODs lately, his PvZ opponets were pretty bad, more like rookie players.
(how dipshit was Stay to group 6 overlords w/o speed together?? and Bisu's 3 corsairs just kill in 10 seconds. OMFG, Stay has 1 hydra trying to defend the overlord)
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EPT
