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Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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[V]
Profile Joined November 2011
United States905 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#801
On April 28 2012 14:47 moopie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:45 Masheyoon wrote:
Someone please explain how the hell Jaedong lost that battle?! =/

both were on 0-0 upgrades (jd really had no excuse there, he had an early lair and mutas), and jd stayed on 1 base way way too long, even though he didnt have to (he was on the offensive denying hyvaa's nat the entire game).

He had to be careful, he didnt know where the lings are, and commiting to hatch will make hyvaa attack. It was all good until that engagement. He should have known better that hyvaa had more because he was in 2 bases for a time.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Hyde
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia14568 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#802
On April 28 2012 14:47 [V] wrote:
Hyde u here?

?
Because when you left, Brood War was all spotlights and titans. Now, with the death of the big leagues, Brood War has moved to the basements and carparks. Now, Brood War is unlicensed brawls, lost teeth, and bloody fights for fistfulls of money - SirJolt
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#803
I am the saddest I have been since Team 8 not making playoffs. My soul...
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#804
sad noises

I remember when I saw Jaedong in the Pdpop MSL Ro4 and there were 4 zergs, I didn't even bother watching except for the finals because I just assumed he would win.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2397 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#805
On April 28 2012 14:49 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:47 moopie wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:45 Masheyoon wrote:
Someone please explain how the hell Jaedong lost that battle?! =/

both were on 0-0 upgrades (jd really had no excuse there, he had an early lair and mutas), and jd stayed on 1 base way way too long, even though he didnt have to (he was on the offensive denying hyvaa's nat the entire game).

but JD knew his only shot was to keep even/ahead in mutas, and with only 5/6 drones on minerals it would have been really hard to do that and also save for the hatch...

right? at least that's my guess as to why he chose not to expand for so long

it's fucking JD, he must have had SOME thought process there...just curious what it was

I think he got too stuck in mindset. He couldn't force a fight with 3spores at Hyvaa's base, he could try to keep it 1base vs 1base but even then he can't go for the kill so Hyvaa is free to drone up.

He had to drone more when he had the advantage, but he didn't =/


And despite what I said about JD (seriously, people like his personality because of his results, not the other way around), I was actually rooting for him there.
The original Bogus fan.
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10346 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#806
On April 28 2012 14:51 kakaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:48 Ryo wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:46 lexpoa wrote:
Shit.

Hope you're having lots of fun with SC2, JD.

It's not practicing SC2 that's the problem. Hyvaa is probably practicing SC2 as well.
Team 8 is just in dire straits.


You could argue that Team 8 has the most to gain from doing well in SC2, given that they still need a sponsor. I have no doubt JD is focusing most of his attention to SC2 these days.

According to the Coaches interview about SC2, STX has been practicing hardcore for SC2 for a while (the coach disputes the claim, the others insist). So we can't blame EVERYTHING on SC2.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Pelopidas
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada225 Posts
April 28 2012 05:52 GMT
#807
Dustin Browder > Jaedong
Esports killed Starcraft
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
April 28 2012 05:53 GMT
#808
On April 28 2012 14:49 Fenrax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:46 setzer wrote:
Wow and I was really seeing flashbacks to JvZ ... then his terrible mutalisk engagements of the last year and a half reared its ugly head.


It is STILL JVZ

His winrate in ZvZ is still fucking insane considering that he is basically always behind in buildorders. When he is really lucky he is even, but since said last year and a half he is just never ahead in buildorders.


Lol, really look at his games. Most are great up until he gets mutalisks out and then he crumbles in the micro war. His scourge control is particularly awful, either they sit idly by his mutalisks while taking damage or all fly straight into a single mutalisk.

Look at his series vs. Hydra, vs. Zero. Look at his games vs. Modesty, Hyuk and tons of other mediocre zergs he has lost to. JvZ has long been dead.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 28 2012 05:53 GMT
#809
On April 28 2012 14:49 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:47 moopie wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:45 Masheyoon wrote:
Someone please explain how the hell Jaedong lost that battle?! =/

both were on 0-0 upgrades (jd really had no excuse there, he had an early lair and mutas), and jd stayed on 1 base way way too long, even though he didnt have to (he was on the offensive denying hyvaa's nat the entire game).

but JD knew his only shot was to keep even/ahead in mutas, and with only 5/6 drones on minerals it would have been really hard to do that and also save for the hatch...

right? at least that's my guess as to why he chose not to expand for so long

it's fucking JD, he must have had SOME thought process there...just curious what it was

His only lead was having mined gas for longer and map control. He only just had enough drones to keep up the mineral side of muta production. The drone lead of hyvaa was kinda nullified if he couldnt expand and was forced to beat JD in the air. JD had a shot at the engagement, hyvaa's scourge + muta micro was just better.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-28 05:57:53
April 28 2012 05:53 GMT
#810
On April 28 2012 14:49 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:47 moopie wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:45 Masheyoon wrote:
Someone please explain how the hell Jaedong lost that battle?! =/

both were on 0-0 upgrades (jd really had no excuse there, he had an early lair and mutas), and jd stayed on 1 base way way too long, even though he didnt have to (he was on the offensive denying hyvaa's nat the entire game).

but JD knew his only shot was to keep even/ahead in mutas, and with only 5/6 drones on minerals it would have been really hard to do that and also save for the hatch...

right? at least that's my guess as to why he chose not to expand for so long

it's fucking JD, he must have had SOME thought process there...just curious what it was

I dunno, he had a huge advantage after the nat first went down. hyvaa was forced to turtle, didn't have a muta advantage so he couldnt do much, and every time he tried to expand again jd took it out with ease.

JD had all the freedom in the world to take his nat, with absolutely no danger of losing it (or even needing sunkens/spores). He was just being stubborn, as JD tends to be often.

He also could have easily been 0-1 by then on the upgrades, which given the even muta supply would have meant him wiping the floor with hyvaa, but I guess he never bothered to start the upgrades.

I can't explain that loss, JD dropped the ball.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
kakaman
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1576 Posts
April 28 2012 05:53 GMT
#811
On April 28 2012 14:53 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:49 Fenrax wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:46 setzer wrote:
Wow and I was really seeing flashbacks to JvZ ... then his terrible mutalisk engagements of the last year and a half reared its ugly head.


It is STILL JVZ

His winrate in ZvZ is still fucking insane considering that he is basically always behind in buildorders. When he is really lucky he is even, but since said last year and a half he is just never ahead in buildorders.


Lol, really look at his games. Most are great up until he gets mutalisks out and then he crumbles in the micro war. His scourge control is particularly awful, either they sit idly by his mutalisks while taking damage or all fly straight into a single mutalisk.

Look at his series vs. Hydra, vs. Zero. Look at his games vs. Modesty, Hyuk and tons of other mediocre zergs he has lost to. JvZ has long been dead.


No muta micro in SC2
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10346 Posts
April 28 2012 05:55 GMT
#812
On April 28 2012 14:53 kakaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:53 setzer wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:49 Fenrax wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:46 setzer wrote:
Wow and I was really seeing flashbacks to JvZ ... then his terrible mutalisk engagements of the last year and a half reared its ugly head.


It is STILL JVZ

His winrate in ZvZ is still fucking insane considering that he is basically always behind in buildorders. When he is really lucky he is even, but since said last year and a half he is just never ahead in buildorders.


Lol, really look at his games. Most are great up until he gets mutalisks out and then he crumbles in the micro war. His scourge control is particularly awful, either they sit idly by his mutalisks while taking damage or all fly straight into a single mutalisk.

Look at his series vs. Hydra, vs. Zero. Look at his games vs. Modesty, Hyuk and tons of other mediocre zergs he has lost to. JvZ has long been dead.


No muta micro in SC2

Other than "kiting," what maneuvers in SC2 qualify as microing anyway?
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
April 28 2012 05:55 GMT
#813
Jaedong's play is simple to explain:
He has more muta, but Hyvaa has more drones and he has 3 spores.
No matter what Jaedong does, hyvaa, will always be able to be able to defend.
If Jaedong does not keep a higher muta count, he loses map control, so he must get more mutas. If he does not, hyvaa can literally expand all over the map.
Hyvaa can sit and wait until he feels 100% safe.
☺
Le French
Profile Joined December 2011
France782 Posts
April 28 2012 05:55 GMT
#814
Did I not tell you. ZvZ is crazy to be too certain.
Ca va?
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 28 2012 05:55 GMT
#815
On April 28 2012 14:52 Pelopidas wrote:
Dustin Browder > Jaedong

I'm more inclined to blame T8 coaching and a lack of practice partners
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
April 28 2012 05:55 GMT
#816
On April 28 2012 14:52 Turbovolver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:49 JWD wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:47 moopie wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:45 Masheyoon wrote:
Someone please explain how the hell Jaedong lost that battle?! =/

both were on 0-0 upgrades (jd really had no excuse there, he had an early lair and mutas), and jd stayed on 1 base way way too long, even though he didnt have to (he was on the offensive denying hyvaa's nat the entire game).

but JD knew his only shot was to keep even/ahead in mutas, and with only 5/6 drones on minerals it would have been really hard to do that and also save for the hatch...

right? at least that's my guess as to why he chose not to expand for so long

it's fucking JD, he must have had SOME thought process there...just curious what it was

I think he got too stuck in mindset. He couldn't force a fight with 3spores at Hyvaa's base, he could try to keep it 1base vs 1base but even then he can't go for the kill so Hyvaa is free to drone up.

He had to drone more when he had the advantage, but he didn't =/


And despite what I said about JD (seriously, people like his personality because of his results, not the other way around), I was actually rooting for him there.


If I see you posting the same things about Sea tomorrow... The man's had no results in forever
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
lexpoa
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil73 Posts
April 28 2012 05:56 GMT
#817
Well, at least I still have Sea to root for.

...

HAHAHAHAHA.
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
April 28 2012 05:56 GMT
#818
On April 28 2012 14:51 kakaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2012 14:48 Ryo wrote:
On April 28 2012 14:46 lexpoa wrote:
Shit.

Hope you're having lots of fun with SC2, JD.

It's not practicing SC2 that's the problem. Hyvaa is probably practicing SC2 as well.
Team 8 is just in dire straits.


You could argue that Team 8 has the most to gain from doing well in SC2, given that they still need a sponsor. I have no doubt JD is focusing most of his attention to SC2 these days.

They were playing poorly even before they started practicing SC2. The team has far deeper problems than just having to practice another game.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
April 28 2012 05:56 GMT
#819
We should know that JD ling micro > his muta micro nowadays, so I can't blame him for losing that last engagement.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2397 Posts
April 28 2012 05:58 GMT
#820
On April 28 2012 14:55 Caihead wrote:
If I see you posting the same things about Sea tomorrow... The man's had no results in forever

Given that most of my posting is a campaign against Overrated Players That Aren't Named Stork, you better hope I'm not in the thread >_>


I get the feeling lots of people like Sea just because he spoke a bit of English and posted to TL a few times. Which is pretty cool, but it's kind of jingoistic for that to be a reason to like a SC player.
The original Bogus fan.
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