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[SPL] Woongjin Stars vs KT Rolster - Page 66

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
February 25 2012 19:03 GMT
#1301
On February 26 2012 03:53 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
On February 26 2012 02:49 WaterTower wrote:
Soulkey needed defilers. He was doing good up until the choice to stay with stone age tech to take on Flash.


yea defilers were wwaayyyyyy late
i think the mound only finished by the end of that game actually


And he stepped on mines everywhere.


Sounds like SK played like shit apart from that lurker egg move.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2192 Posts
February 25 2012 19:14 GMT
#1302
2nd best flash game of the season.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
February 25 2012 19:41 GMT
#1303
On February 26 2012 03:53 IntoTheheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
On February 26 2012 02:49 WaterTower wrote:
Soulkey needed defilers. He was doing good up until the choice to stay with stone age tech to take on Flash.


yea defilers were wwaayyyyyy late
i think the mound only finished by the end of that game actually


And he stepped on mines everywhere.


it wasnt as bad as say, jaedong's game
and, egg save, amirite
starleague forever
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
February 25 2012 19:53 GMT
#1304
First time I've seen rax win. Woo.
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
dr0pship
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada505 Posts
February 25 2012 21:00 GMT
#1305
Someone please make GIF of SK lurker egg shield kkthx
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3204 Posts
February 25 2012 21:08 GMT
#1306
On February 26 2012 01:48 Xiphos wrote:
Flash don't play straight up macro games but rely on early pressure and calculated risk of 14 CC to get him into economical leads.


In Russia his nickname is non other than
+ Show Spoiler +
MERE MACRO TERRAN
.

And I totally agree with that. Besides his god-like micro, map-hack like game sense, he pumps out units from his barracks, factories, starports non-stop and overwhelmes his opponent.
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
MyLastSerenade
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany710 Posts
February 25 2012 21:37 GMT
#1307
What a great game by flash! 14-0!!
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
February 25 2012 21:50 GMT
#1308
Flash don't play straight up macro games but rely on early pressure and calculated risk of 14 CC to get him into economical leads.


Remember when he played 1rax CC in all matchups for all games in every league? People could do whatever they wanted against him, plan beforehand, and he simply wouldn't change his build. He still won playing from "behind" automatically. (only stork outplayed him, and only once)
☺
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
February 25 2012 22:19 GMT
#1309
On February 26 2012 06:50 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
Flash don't play straight up macro games but rely on early pressure and calculated risk of 14 CC to get him into economical leads.


Remember when he played 1rax CC in all matchups for all games in every league? People could do whatever they wanted against him, plan beforehand, and he simply wouldn't change his build. He still won playing from "behind" automatically. (only stork outplayed him, and only once)


And now look at the way he is playing/
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
February 25 2012 22:31 GMT
#1310
On February 26 2012 07:19 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 06:50 Release wrote:
Flash don't play straight up macro games but rely on early pressure and calculated risk of 14 CC to get him into economical leads.


Remember when he played 1rax CC in all matchups for all games in every league? People could do whatever they wanted against him, plan beforehand, and he simply wouldn't change his build. He still won playing from "behind" automatically. (only stork outplayed him, and only once)


And now look at the way he is playing/


Your point being?

Yeah, Flash likes to play aggressive openings lately. If he wasn't, you'd be bitching about him being a turtle terran or some bullshit.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
February 25 2012 22:58 GMT
#1311
On February 26 2012 07:31 deafhobbit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 07:19 Xiphos wrote:
On February 26 2012 06:50 Release wrote:
Flash don't play straight up macro games but rely on early pressure and calculated risk of 14 CC to get him into economical leads.


Remember when he played 1rax CC in all matchups for all games in every league? People could do whatever they wanted against him, plan beforehand, and he simply wouldn't change his build. He still won playing from "behind" automatically. (only stork outplayed him, and only once)


And now look at the way he is playing/


Your point being?

Yeah, Flash likes to play aggressive openings lately. If he wasn't, you'd be bitching about him being a turtle terran or some bullshit.


Hey, no on is bitching with the exception of your complaint.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TrainSamurai
Profile Joined November 2010
339 Posts
February 25 2012 23:22 GMT
#1312
On February 26 2012 02:46 bgx wrote:
hmm SK played kinda poorly am i the only one with that notion? I mean ye his midgame was okayish but that bunker was badly answered and he didnt have good enough economy to keep up

after this bunker he wouldn be able to keep up with fantasy or light either


SK over reacted and got steamrolled. Mine save was good but he didn't really engage those valkyries correctly but yea w/e flash is god.

After reading this thread I kinda want to see another flash 14cc for old times sake xD
LoL is the greatest thing to happen to ESPORS. LoL is the KING of ESPORTS
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
February 25 2012 23:40 GMT
#1313
flash celebrated his 14th win with a 14cc? What a badass.
Only thing that makes me sad is that stats couldnt break his losing streak. At least it didnt add up either.
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
Kiett
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States7639 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 00:29:38
February 26 2012 00:24 GMT
#1314
On February 26 2012 01:42 Emperor_Earth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 01:10 dibbaN wrote:
Oh my god. Soulkey SHOULD have won that game.


SK was never ahead. His number of bases was not a very good indicator of his actual hold on the game. SK's tech and ups were disgustingly behind. If you notice, when FlaSh sneaked an scv in after the early game bunker shenanigans, he was specifically interested in the gas, then the hatch timing. He was so surprised 1st gas was so late he thought there must have been a fast third, which there wasn't. So then he sent an scv to top left because he figured maybe it was proxied. It wasn't.

SK cut a LOT of drones both in ling production, the obvious, and not mining and idle larvaes, the not so obvious. And then when he did have gas, he had to get lair asap which further delayed his sling which delayed his third gas which limited his muta which further delayed his map ctrl which diminished his army strength. This limited his ability to go Crazy-Zerg style so FlaSh knew that lurkers were necessary. With lurkers being immobile and unable to defend multiple places with few units, he is forced to delay hive a VERY long time and build a ton of static defense/lurkers at both groups (top left and bottom right) which further dictated his gas usage and limited his drone count. He was forced, therefore, to minimize his ling numbers to maximize larvae defensive efficiency and opted for hydras to give him the flexibility to at least buy a semblance of presence since he couldn't afford enough mutas + lurkers on time at his bases.

FlaSh knew ALL this and so delayed goliaths for what seemed an eternity and just preemptively went vulture/mine then mass vult/tank. I wouldn't doubt that this midgame transition was already planned out and he took the time to figure out the best places to mine up depending on probable rally points given bases taken and FlaSh's army positioning.

The only strategic mistake I saw from FlaSh was expoing towards a lurker/hydra/ling opponent.

If you remember from FlaSh interviews, he says that he doesn't practice physically as much as most players. Instead, he practices mentally m ore. He envisions scenarios and adjusts for player tendencies in his waking hours (maybe his sleeping hours too) and then theorycrafts probably best counters. Hence his "maphax" scans.

Wow. Thanks for the nice explanation; I learned a lot.

On February 26 2012 08:40 Heimatloser wrote:
flash celebrated his 14th win with a 14cc? What a badass.
Only thing that makes me sad is that stats couldnt break his losing streak. At least it didnt add up either.

Um, no. That wasn't a 14cc, it was a proxy 8 rax into bunker rush lol.
Writer:o
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 00:45:33
February 26 2012 00:44 GMT
#1315
On February 26 2012 09:24 Kiett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 01:42 Emperor_Earth wrote:
On February 26 2012 01:10 dibbaN wrote:
Oh my god. Soulkey SHOULD have won that game.


SK was never ahead. His number of bases was not a very good indicator of his actual hold on the game. SK's tech and ups were disgustingly behind. If you notice, when FlaSh sneaked an scv in after the early game bunker shenanigans, he was specifically interested in the gas, then the hatch timing. He was so surprised 1st gas was so late he thought there must have been a fast third, which there wasn't. So then he sent an scv to top left because he figured maybe it was proxied. It wasn't.

SK cut a LOT of drones both in ling production, the obvious, and not mining and idle larvaes, the not so obvious. And then when he did have gas, he had to get lair asap which further delayed his sling which delayed his third gas which limited his muta which further delayed his map ctrl which diminished his army strength. This limited his ability to go Crazy-Zerg style so FlaSh knew that lurkers were necessary. With lurkers being immobile and unable to defend multiple places with few units, he is forced to delay hive a VERY long time and build a ton of static defense/lurkers at both groups (top left and bottom right) which further dictated his gas usage and limited his drone count. He was forced, therefore, to minimize his ling numbers to maximize larvae defensive efficiency and opted for hydras to give him the flexibility to at least buy a semblance of presence since he couldn't afford enough mutas + lurkers on time at his bases.

FlaSh knew ALL this and so delayed goliaths for what seemed an eternity and just preemptively went vulture/mine then mass vult/tank. I wouldn't doubt that this midgame transition was already planned out and he took the time to figure out the best places to mine up depending on probable rally points given bases taken and FlaSh's army positioning.

The only strategic mistake I saw from FlaSh was expoing towards a lurker/hydra/ling opponent.

If you remember from FlaSh interviews, he says that he doesn't practice physically as much as most players. Instead, he practices mentally m ore. He envisions scenarios and adjusts for player tendencies in his waking hours (maybe his sleeping hours too) and then theorycrafts probably best counters. Hence his "maphax" scans.

Wow. Thanks for the nice explanation; I learned a lot.

Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 08:40 Heimatloser wrote:
flash celebrated his 14th win with a 14cc? What a badass.
Only thing that makes me sad is that stats couldnt break his losing streak. At least it didnt add up either.

Um, no. That wasn't a 14cc, it was a proxy 8 rax into bunker rush lol.


Thanks. While we're being nice to rival fanbases, I really enjoy your translation and live report threads
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1470 Posts
February 26 2012 01:44 GMT
#1316
On February 26 2012 01:42 Emperor_Earth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 01:10 dibbaN wrote:
Oh my god. Soulkey SHOULD have won that game.


SK was never ahead. His number of bases was not a very good indicator of his actual hold on the game. SK's tech and ups were disgustingly behind. If you notice, when FlaSh sneaked an scv in after the early game bunker shenanigans, he was specifically interested in the gas, then the hatch timing. He was so surprised 1st gas was so late he thought there must have been a fast third, which there wasn't. So then he sent an scv to top left because he figured maybe it was proxied. It wasn't.

SK cut a LOT of drones both in ling production, the obvious, and not mining and idle larvaes, the not so obvious. And then when he did have gas, he had to get lair asap which further delayed his sling which delayed his third gas which limited his muta which further delayed his map ctrl which diminished his army strength. This limited his ability to go Crazy-Zerg style so FlaSh knew that lurkers were necessary. With lurkers being immobile and unable to defend multiple places with few units, he is forced to delay hive a VERY long time and build a ton of static defense/lurkers at both groups (top left and bottom right) which further dictated his gas usage and limited his drone count. He was forced, therefore, to minimize his ling numbers to maximize larvae defensive efficiency and opted for hydras to give him the flexibility to at least buy a semblance of presence since he couldn't afford enough mutas + lurkers on time at his bases.

FlaSh knew ALL this and so delayed goliaths for what seemed an eternity and just preemptively went vulture/mine then mass vult/tank. I wouldn't doubt that this midgame transition was already planned out and he took the time to figure out the best places to mine up depending on probable rally points given bases taken and FlaSh's army positioning.

The only strategic mistake I saw from FlaSh was expoing towards a lurker/hydra/ling opponent.

If you remember from FlaSh interviews, he says that he doesn't practice physically as much as most players. Instead, he practices mentally m ore. He envisions scenarios and adjusts for player tendencies in his waking hours (maybe his sleeping hours too) and then theorycrafts probably best counters. Hence his "maphax" scans.


*sigh* I have so much to learn. Thanks for the analysis
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9359 Posts
February 26 2012 01:50 GMT
#1317
On February 26 2012 01:42 Emperor_Earth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 01:10 dibbaN wrote:
Oh my god. Soulkey SHOULD have won that game.


SK was never ahead. His number of bases was not a very good indicator of his actual hold on the game. SK's tech and ups were disgustingly behind. If you notice, when FlaSh sneaked an scv in after the early game bunker shenanigans, he was specifically interested in the gas, then the hatch timing. He was so surprised 1st gas was so late he thought there must have been a fast third, which there wasn't. So then he sent an scv to top left because he figured maybe it was proxied. It wasn't.

SK cut a LOT of drones both in ling production, the obvious, and not mining and idle larvaes, the not so obvious. And then when he did have gas, he had to get lair asap which further delayed his sling which delayed his third gas which limited his muta which further delayed his map ctrl which diminished his army strength. This limited his ability to go Crazy-Zerg style so FlaSh knew that lurkers were necessary. With lurkers being immobile and unable to defend multiple places with few units, he is forced to delay hive a VERY long time and build a ton of static defense/lurkers at both groups (top left and bottom right) which further dictated his gas usage and limited his drone count. He was forced, therefore, to minimize his ling numbers to maximize larvae defensive efficiency and opted for hydras to give him the flexibility to at least buy a semblance of presence since he couldn't afford enough mutas + lurkers on time at his bases.

FlaSh knew ALL this and so delayed goliaths for what seemed an eternity and just preemptively went vulture/mine then mass vult/tank. I wouldn't doubt that this midgame transition was already planned out and he took the time to figure out the best places to mine up depending on probable rally points given bases taken and FlaSh's army positioning.

The only strategic mistake I saw from FlaSh was expoing towards a lurker/hydra/ling opponent.

If you remember from FlaSh interviews, he says that he doesn't practice physically as much as most players. Instead, he practices mentally m ore. He envisions scenarios and adjusts for player tendencies in his waking hours (maybe his sleeping hours too) and then theorycrafts probably best counters. Hence his "maphax" scans.

You should become a TL write-up. SK vs FlaSh as Top Game of the week and you should write the BR for it!
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Neo7
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 01:54:58
February 26 2012 01:54 GMT
#1318
Here's the missing footage of the first game between sin and Barracks where Barracks dropped out after 12 minutes. Requires DivX Web Player to view

http://www.clangfaq.com/Neo7/missing.html
It takes an idiot to do cool things.
TrainSamurai
Profile Joined November 2010
339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-26 02:35:13
February 26 2012 02:29 GMT
#1319
On February 26 2012 10:44 Jragon wrote:

*sigh* I have so much to learn. Thanks for the analysis


Basically if you're a zerg vsing Flash you really need your third gas if you want a smooth transition into late game (unless your effort). SK did not use gas to perfect efficientcy or did have this gas in time to help him transition into late game smoothly and got rolled..
LoL is the greatest thing to happen to ESPORS. LoL is the KING of ESPORTS
KamMoye
Profile Joined December 2010
United States721 Posts
February 26 2012 02:51 GMT
#1320
On February 26 2012 01:42 Emperor_Earth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2012 01:10 dibbaN wrote:
Oh my god. Soulkey SHOULD have won that game.


SK was never ahead. His number of bases was not a very good indicator of his actual hold on the game. SK's tech and ups were disgustingly behind. If you notice, when FlaSh sneaked an scv in after the early game bunker shenanigans, he was specifically interested in the gas, then the hatch timing. He was so surprised 1st gas was so late he thought there must have been a fast third, which there wasn't. So then he sent an scv to top left because he figured maybe it was proxied. It wasn't.

SK cut a LOT of drones both in ling production, the obvious, and not mining and idle larvaes, the not so obvious. And then when he did have gas, he had to get lair asap which further delayed his sling which delayed his third gas which limited his muta which further delayed his map ctrl which diminished his army strength. This limited his ability to go Crazy-Zerg style so FlaSh knew that lurkers were necessary. With lurkers being immobile and unable to defend multiple places with few units, he is forced to delay hive a VERY long time and build a ton of static defense/lurkers at both groups (top left and bottom right) which further dictated his gas usage and limited his drone count. He was forced, therefore, to minimize his ling numbers to maximize larvae defensive efficiency and opted for hydras to give him the flexibility to at least buy a semblance of presence since he couldn't afford enough mutas + lurkers on time at his bases.

FlaSh knew ALL this and so delayed goliaths for what seemed an eternity and just preemptively went vulture/mine then mass vult/tank. I wouldn't doubt that this midgame transition was already planned out and he took the time to figure out the best places to mine up depending on probable rally points given bases taken and FlaSh's army positioning.

The only strategic mistake I saw from FlaSh was expoing towards a lurker/hydra/ling opponent.

If you remember from FlaSh interviews, he says that he doesn't practice physically as much as most players. Instead, he practices mentally m ore. He envisions scenarios and adjusts for player tendencies in his waking hours (maybe his sleeping hours too) and then theorycrafts probably best counters. Hence his "maphax" scans.


thanks for this =)
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