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On September 17 2011 22:21 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 22:19 baubo wrote:On September 17 2011 22:14 Sufficiency wrote:On September 17 2011 22:12 magicbullet wrote:
Why did jangbi produce so many observers? I thought fantasy had kept his wraith out of sight. When you are at an advantage, you think of the WORST CASE SCENARIO that can possibly happen that will make you lose. And the answer is wraith. It's pretty simple logic. I would have done the same thing... no progaming experience required. That, and it's just natural use of resources. Carrier builds are heavy on minerals and light on gas. And while I can't really tell, I believe Jangbi's mineral probes were harassed a lot more than his gas ones. So he should've had tons of gas throughout the game. Unfortunately, the game was so intense I didn't exactly pay attention to details. I think against most other terrans, Jangbi would've gone templars. But he might've feared Fantasy's vultures and decides to go goon-heavy which leaves a lot of gas unused. I actually think he was clearly conscious of wraiths the whole time on set 5. He carefully separated his obs and stacked the ones following the carrier. There were a few occasions which he initially made all obs go together then separated them into two groups.
My point is that protoss almost always go heavy obs when they build a fleet of carriers, regardless of terran's strategy, because they simply have too much gas unless they make templars. I can't speak for other players, but I've watched enough Stork games to see that his carrier fleet is almost always followed by an observer fleet.
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On September 17 2011 22:26 bgx wrote:
what was crucial is that Fantasy was floating 1.5 both gas and minerals when JB was pressuring him, JB proved to be stronger mentally even he was in big disadvantage
Yes indeed. Jangbi never gave up and clawed his way back.
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Yes! Jangbi!! woo! sick games
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Fantasy needed medics to win in game 5.
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Missed game 5, can't wait for vods T.T
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On September 17 2011 22:24 Kiante wrote:
Everyone, lets show jangbi we love him and tweet @jangbitoss with congratulations!
how do i tweet lol
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On September 17 2011 22:29 ShadeR wrote:
Fantasy needed medics to win in game 5.
Yeah sure. Build an academy instead of Ebay and get rolled over by carriers due to lack of turrents.
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FUCK I HAD TO GO BUT HOLY FUCK JANGBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
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From having watched stork vs fantasy and these finals I can say that pathefinder map is complete bullshit
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On September 17 2011 22:32 epoc wrote:
From having watched stork vs fantasy and these finals I can say that pathefinder map is complete bullshit
Why? Everyone thought it was toss graveyard and Jangbi proved everyone wrong.
Similar to Savior pwning all toss back then and Bisu proved everyone wrong. So yea.
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On September 17 2011 22:32 epoc wrote:
From having watched stork vs fantasy and these finals I can say that pathefinder map is complete bullshit
each base is attackable from 360 degree angle.
made for awesome AWESOME games though
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On September 17 2011 22:09 Vuk_91 wrote:
So now that the hype is at least almost gone,I have to ask: Was this the worst control of Gol + Tanks army ever? I mean tanks were always so far behind goliaths so Jangbi (with his flawless control I must add) picked insane number of Goliaths with dragoons. Then when he starts retreating from Goons he picks another 2-3 with his carrier. All that time Fantasy is in the middle of the map,not atacking Jangbi and not defending his main nor his 3rd which becomes an easy targer for Jangbi twice! Then he starts a push,Jangbi goes for the main and leaves his 3rd without any defense but no,fantasy decides not to go for it because of...2 cannons? Meanwhile his wraiths are doing apsolutly nothing. And on top of all that,I have to say I watched quite a few games of BroodWar,but never seen Protoss winning from 80 to 140 supply deficit + 2 vs 3 bases.
It is literally impossible to control goliath/tank vs carrier/goon on Pathfinder, because it's Pathfinder. It's similar to how protoss can sense dropship play, tanks seiging behind the main, natural, etc. and can't do jack squat because it's pathfinder. The map that allows fantasy to do gay elevators and seiging mineral lines also allow carriers to absolutely obliterate goliaths both in mobility and war of attrition. There's a reason why Jangbi went 2-base carriers in both games, and why fantasy switched to wraiths. Goliaths get absolutely owned by carriers on this map.
Also, keep in mind that we have the observer vision. From fantasy's POV, he can't actually see carriers through the ridges. This is hugely imbalanced towards carrier when the terran doesn't have gazillion scans. And even with scans it requires much more control for terran than protoss. You can see on both pathfinder games Jangbi had better control. It's because carriers with high ground advantage are much easier to control to give him ability to do other stuff. While goliaths require constant attention or they die quickly.
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On September 17 2011 22:31 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 22:29 ShadeR wrote:
Fantasy needed medics to win in game 5. Yeah sure. Build an academy instead of Ebay and get rolled over by carriers due to lack of turrents.
He is referring to “Boxer’s Blind Spot” where he blinded Observers with Optical flare (Pimpest Play 2002)
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On September 17 2011 22:26 Djabanete wrote:
Besides the semifinals, that was almost the roughest path to an OSL win you could possibly have.
Qualifiers: knocked out by Soo
Ro16: almost eliminated 1-2, saved by tiebreak
Ro8: down 1 game vs Flash
Finals: 2-2, 30 supply deficit in final game
That's mental fortitude. After so many hurdles, I don't know WHAT he was thinking in the final game when he was so far behind.
Ro4: Going up against guy who knocked you out in Qualifiers.
And IMO had Fanta gone Wraiths earlier (before OBS went up) and concentrated on more Vults/Tanks to hold off the inevitable goon push, he would have had a much better chance of winning this.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Pathfind is so stupid regardless though, both the sieging the main(or nat) from below and carriers floating over ridges.
it really needs to go.
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On September 17 2011 22:35 Ciryandor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 22:26 Djabanete wrote:
Besides the semifinals, that was almost the roughest path to an OSL win you could possibly have.
Qualifiers: knocked out by Soo
Ro16: almost eliminated 1-2, saved by tiebreak
Ro8: down 1 game vs Flash
Finals: 2-2, 30 supply deficit in final game
That's mental fortitude. After so many hurdles, I don't know WHAT he was thinking in the final game when he was so far behind. Ro4: Going up against guy who knocked you out in Qualifiers. And IMO had Fanta gone Wraiths earlier (before OBS went up) and concentrated on more Vults/Tanks to hold off the inevitable goon push, he would have had a much better chance of winning this.
I think that will make him getting rolled over on the goon push. More wraith -> fewer tanks. Then Jangbi can just snipe the tanks and let his land units do the work.
On September 17 2011 22:37 Kipsate wrote:
Pathfind is so stupid regardless though, both the sieging the main(or nat) from below and carriers floating over ridges.
it really needs to go.
Not as bad is Demon Forest. Ha!
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On September 17 2011 22:34 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 22:09 Vuk_91 wrote:
So now that the hype is at least almost gone,I have to ask: Was this the worst control of Gol + Tanks army ever? I mean tanks were always so far behind goliaths so Jangbi (with his flawless control I must add) picked insane number of Goliaths with dragoons. Then when he starts retreating from Goons he picks another 2-3 with his carrier. All that time Fantasy is in the middle of the map,not atacking Jangbi and not defending his main nor his 3rd which becomes an easy targer for Jangbi twice! Then he starts a push,Jangbi goes for the main and leaves his 3rd without any defense but no,fantasy decides not to go for it because of...2 cannons? Meanwhile his wraiths are doing apsolutly nothing. And on top of all that,I have to say I watched quite a few games of BroodWar,but never seen Protoss winning from 80 to 140 supply deficit + 2 vs 3 bases. It is literally impossible to control goliath/tank vs carrier/goon on Pathfinder, because it's Pathfinder. It's similar to how protoss can sense dropship play, tanks seiging behind the main, natural, etc. and can't do jack squat because it's pathfinder. The map that allows fantasy to do gay elevators and seiging mineral lines also allow carriers to absolutely obliterate goliaths both in mobility and war of attrition. There's a reason why Jangbi went 2-base carriers in both games, and why fantasy switched to wraiths. Goliaths get absolutely owned by carriers on this map. Also, keep in mind that we have the observer vision. From fantasy's POV, he can't actually see carriers through the ridges. This is hugely imbalanced towards carrier when the terran doesn't have gazillion scans. And even with scans it requires much more control for terran than protoss. You can see on both pathfinder games Jangbi had better control. It's because carriers with high ground advantage are much easier to control to give him ability to do other stuff. While goliaths require constant attention or they die quickly.
Idk,I saw Flash once playing against someone on Pathfinder vs 2 base carrier (I think it was Kal),Flash scouted it very late and then just pwnd Kal like he was some random ICCup noob.
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Game 5 turned out ridiculously epic, but I really want the damn map to go. 
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On September 17 2011 22:40 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 22:34 baubo wrote:On September 17 2011 22:09 Vuk_91 wrote:
So now that the hype is at least almost gone,I have to ask: Was this the worst control of Gol + Tanks army ever? I mean tanks were always so far behind goliaths so Jangbi (with his flawless control I must add) picked insane number of Goliaths with dragoons. Then when he starts retreating from Goons he picks another 2-3 with his carrier. All that time Fantasy is in the middle of the map,not atacking Jangbi and not defending his main nor his 3rd which becomes an easy targer for Jangbi twice! Then he starts a push,Jangbi goes for the main and leaves his 3rd without any defense but no,fantasy decides not to go for it because of...2 cannons? Meanwhile his wraiths are doing apsolutly nothing. And on top of all that,I have to say I watched quite a few games of BroodWar,but never seen Protoss winning from 80 to 140 supply deficit + 2 vs 3 bases. It is literally impossible to control goliath/tank vs carrier/goon on Pathfinder, because it's Pathfinder. It's similar to how protoss can sense dropship play, tanks seiging behind the main, natural, etc. and can't do jack squat because it's pathfinder. The map that allows fantasy to do gay elevators and seiging mineral lines also allow carriers to absolutely obliterate goliaths both in mobility and war of attrition. There's a reason why Jangbi went 2-base carriers in both games, and why fantasy switched to wraiths. Goliaths get absolutely owned by carriers on this map. Also, keep in mind that we have the observer vision. From fantasy's POV, he can't actually see carriers through the ridges. This is hugely imbalanced towards carrier when the terran doesn't have gazillion scans. And even with scans it requires much more control for terran than protoss. You can see on both pathfinder games Jangbi had better control. It's because carriers with high ground advantage are much easier to control to give him ability to do other stuff. While goliaths require constant attention or they die quickly. Idk,I saw Flash once playing against someone on Pathfinder vs 2 base carrier (I think it was Kal),Flash scouted it very late and then just pwnd Kal like he was some random ICCup noob.
Yes, but Flash map hacks in his brain so the whole high ground / vision thing doesn't apply.
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This was incredible.. best series i've seen. My favourite OSL run. It's just been perfect, nothing could be better. After Ro8 game 1 there wasn't particularly much hype at all about the OSL.. Then the surprise underdog Jangbi takes out Flash. A special moment in itself in a lot of ways... a lot of people including me then obviously wanted Jangbi to go on and take it and be the first P of this modern era to win it. However Soo would have been silly to underestimate, while i desperately wanted him to win i knew in the back of my head PvZ is very harsh sometimes if you're a P fan.
Yet amazingly he smashes him 3-0.. a great series in itself, in his weakest matchup, and he does the perfect thing and completely dominates. So he's definitely serious and hype building up massively for the final.. but there was still a nagging feeling about possible fluke form and Fantasy's form always showing in tournament in a matchup he specializes in. It was always possible but would it really happen.
Then this finals. Wow... it was awesome from the start with Jangbi doing pretty much what i said in my earlier post in the thread, that he needs to play aggressive not reactive. He pretty much did that every game in some form or another. He showed us new ideas and old classics alike. Then it ramped up for the ridiculous 4th set. Win by floating CC but in a hugely entertaining way. Then 5th set (which i previously didn't even want) is totally insane. Now you can pick on decisions by the players all day there was so many twists in the game. But it ended up how it did, and it's a miracle.
Fantasy warrants mention too simply because no other player would have made this series like this. Just happened to be the perfect matchup. Nothing against Flash but he'll never have a series like this (that's more like a compliment to his skill). The stars aligned and gave us this, finally a Protoss Champion, 100% well deserved and in great style. With the current state of BW maybe it will end up being more than just a Cinderella story. This has shown the full potential of eSports, and if this can't convince people that there is more potential and possibilities with this game then nothing can. It wasn't the best players of their races and they didn't make every correct decision, but how it unfolded was a spectacle. I don't think you could write out a series like that.
I think we should all be a lot more determined about BW; there is still legends yet to rise and fall.
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EPT
