ohh god I dont know if I can manage to watch Stork play today! If he lose to some fucking hydra bust etc to Shine, I am just gonna rage so freaking hard.
couple of vultures of sea scout the third, but forced away by superior forces. sea with a dropship out, which dies to goliaths and the one tank that was dropped dies soon after
siege standoff in middle of the map. sea adding a third, but will need to clear a mine after floating it out, also adding second starport. sea gaining some advantage in centre of map
Just tuned in. Been a while since I've watched a TvT and I'm glad to see mass dropship style coming back after all that mass wraith stuff we had earlier in the season.
Is it just me or was 90% of that game Sea getting his ass kicked around but still somehow up in the food count (bad macro Hiya?) and then all of a sudden Sea is in control of the only remaining mining bases?
Probably one of the better TvT's I've seen in awhile. It really looked like Hiya was outplaying Sea hard during the midgame but Sea kept rolling with the punches and used his econ advantage to slowly win the game. Good stuff.
On July 15 2011 20:19 kuroshiroi wrote: Hiya macro fail...
not macro, more of decision making :S not to say that i haven't noticed his macro being worse than sea's lol
Floating 1500 gas for long periods of time, not making expansions? He has won the majority of engagements but he simply made less stuff.
yeah but i don't think that's the main reason why he lost. imo he didn't take bases when he needed them. you're right that his macro was pretty poor as well and would have contributed to sea's win
gw sea. shows why you stay till the end. none of this "OMG FANTASY GG TIMING LOLOLOL" crap
So bad game by hiya. Made couple of huge blunders in mid game but somehow made a comeback with nice dship play and then he forgot to take bases and make units haha
Sea totally deserves this win, there were several situations where he could type out and just say gg, but he fought himself pretty well back into the game. GG.
On July 15 2011 20:24 jjhchsc2 wrote: what are the brackets for this OSL? Like for the RO8. is it 1st place A group winner vs 2nd place B group winner,etc?
On July 15 2011 20:22 Breach_hu wrote: hiya shouldnt have tried to drop sea's main, thats where the game went reverse:/
That was an even trade. He should have expanded to the 4.5 o'clock 20 minutes earlier.
he shouldnt have tried to trade at that position, where you can siege up before the opponents production building and the natural. imo.
He was trying to neutralise Sea's factories, that move could have won him the game but it also cost him pretty much nothing. It was a macro loss, pure and simple. 1500 gas means 15 tanks but he didn't have mins because he didn't expand.
Edit: Hiya still played really well, I'm just disappointed he didn't win, because he almost, almost had it.
On July 15 2011 20:23 jaQi wrote: Sea totally deserves this win, there were several situations where he could type out and just say gg, but he fought himself pretty well back into the game. GG.
Yes, Sea never gave up. So many times before in individual leagues he would just have typed gg in these situations.
On July 15 2011 20:24 jjhchsc2 wrote: what are the brackets for this OSL? Like for the RO8. is it 1st place A group winner vs 2nd place B group winner,etc?
I think it's 1A v 2D, 1B v 2C, 1C v 2B, and 1D v 2A
not sure though, let me check. i'll confirm with edit
they'll probably randomize the Ro8 based on KeSPA rankings.
On July 15 2011 20:32 kuroshiroi wrote: Place your bets, Shine will: 1. 5 pool 2. 7 pool 3. 3 hatch hydra 4. 5 hatch hydra 5. Some other aggressive strategy 6. Play standard
On July 15 2011 20:32 kuroshiroi wrote: Place your bets, Shine will: 1. 5 pool 2. 7 pool 3. 3 hatch hydra 4. 5 hatch hydra 5. Some other aggressive strategy 6. Play standard
i hate tvt there is the odd good game though. this one wasn't bad, but fantasy vs flash from bigfile msl? epic
zvz is the best
O_O
I've seen you mention it many times but I still cannot understand at all.
Easy TvZ>TvT=ZvZ>ZvP>PvT>>>>>PvP
whats wrong with pvp? TVZ>ZVZ>ZvP>PVP>tvt=pvt depends whos playing ^.^
It's good if it doesn't go past midagme, if not, it tends to become a slightly better version of sc2. See every pvp ever on central plain (every single one had like 90%+ recommandation) : max out fight, max out fight... Edit : Gogo Stork, please make me happy
i hate tvt there is the odd good game though. this one wasn't bad, but fantasy vs flash from bigfile msl? epic
zvz is the best
tvt is da best. zvz is more like: wtf, and that's it ;P
haha that's why i love it. so much micro and wtf moments. zvz is also the only match up i play on iccup. 10-15 minute games ftw.
On July 15 2011 20:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On July 15 2011 20:24 Motivate wrote:
On July 15 2011 20:23 J1.au wrote: I love TvT.
i hate tvt there is the odd good game though. this one wasn't bad, but fantasy vs flash from bigfile msl? epic
zvz is the best
O_O
I've seen you mention it many times but I still cannot understand at all.
lol well i think you're crazy for liking tvt. i guess it's the most stable mirror and really shows if there is a disparity in skill?
what about hive tech ZvZ?
hive tech zvz is awesome only because you see it so rarely. idk how entertaining i find it to be honest because whenever i see it i automatically enjoy it because you're lucky to have more than a couple a year
Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Couldn't Stork just take the other path around the ridges on the left side of the map rather than fight constantly uphill against streaming Zerg reinforcements? I mean, if he could split his army properly, he might hold off his choke with minimal troop count, while gaining some ground with main forces.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Hive has no upgrades for hydras, there, explained.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
It's more than one click... you need a Queen's nest and that's probably too much for Shine...
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Yep, exactly. But it's probably that same tunnel vision that makes him sometimes uncannily fierce and allows him to snap-eliminate Protoss fan favourites through sheer dedication alone :3
edit: There was a moment early on where Shine got hardcore supply blocked, too I was hoping that would snowball into an ezmode game but I guess at the time Shine was just throwing down static D at his 3rd and so didn't really care.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Hive has no upgrades for hydras, there, explained.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
He morphed some of them into lurkers And Stork's shuttle/reaver control wasn't good at all, so why would you not make Hydras?
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Hive has no upgrades for hydras, there, explained.
+3/+3 upgrades
Bah why would shine buy carapace when he can just build MOAR :3
+3 maybe but the again you can build MOAR and protoss will melt all the same.
God, there is so much stork fanboyism here. Stork played that bad, and he was floating thousands too despite all his production buildings bunched up in one group.
And he didn't save the reaver in the shuttle snipe. He could have though.
On July 15 2011 21:00 don_kyuhote wrote: Fact of the matter is, Stork never punished Shine taking 4 bases and drone whoring.
Yep.
Shine held air control for too long --> Stork couldn't attack with Zealots only (or Zealot/Reaver). Stork needed either a second Stargate or a couple of archons.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Holgerius wrote: Shine plays with so much tunnel-vision. Hydras. MOAR HYDRAS! He had a huuuuuge bank for most of the game, and he still didn't tech to Hive. That's one click, and he could've easily afforded it considering the bad job he was doing keeping his money low.
The fact that this play beat Stork makes me even sadder. That was bad by Dinotoss.
Hive has no upgrades for hydras, there, explained.
+3/+3 upgrades
Bah why would shine buy carapace when he can just build MOAR :3
+3 maybe but the again you can build MOAR and protoss will melt all the same.
Also, storm and reaver don't really care about upgrades.
On July 15 2011 21:00 don_kyuhote wrote: Fact of the matter is, Stork never punished Shine taking 4 bases and drone whoring.
Shine killed Stork's reaver and denied his DT harass. Probably won the game right there.
That and Stork is in a terrible slump.
Shine killed the shuttle but the reaver was saved, but yeah, Stork failing to get his harass done lost him the game.
Oh, he managed to unload the reaver? I missed that. Either way, it zerg doesn't get harassed in a ZvP, they'll probably win.
You are probably talking about different shuttles. He didn't unload the shuttle he lost early on to scourges(the one above the cliff right before it was able to reach Stork's natural).
On July 15 2011 21:00 don_kyuhote wrote: Fact of the matter is, Stork never punished Shine taking 4 bases and drone whoring.
Yep.
Shine held air control for too long --> Stork couldn't attack with Zealots only (or Zealot/Reaver). Stork needed either a second Stargate or a couple of archons.
Both robo and archives are expensive, he couldn't really afford that since he was also replacing lost sairs.
On July 15 2011 21:00 don_kyuhote wrote: Fact of the matter is, Stork never punished Shine taking 4 bases and drone whoring.
Shine killed Stork's reaver and denied his DT harass. Probably won the game right there.
That and Stork is in a terrible slump.
Shine killed the shuttle but the reaver was saved, but yeah, Stork failing to get his harass done lost him the game.
Oh, he managed to unload the reaver? I missed that. Either way, it zerg doesn't get harassed in a ZvP, they'll probably win.
You are probably talking about different shuttles. He didn't unload the shuttle he lost early on to scourges(the one above the cliff right before it was able to reach Stork's natural).
Yeah, that's the one I meant. His first reaver + shuttle. Pretty big deal and may have given Stork flashbacks to his final against Fantasy.
If anything Stork was the one tunnel visioning. He failed to notice an extra reaver that was only one screen away from his army, left a second reaver at his third even though there was no way Shine could break it uphill against 20 cannons, lost all his sairs pointlessly at a time when they could have been killing overlords and forcing scourge, and continued making zealot/goon even though at one point he had 1000 gas and could have made a round of HT to blanket Shine's entire army in storms. That was just bad.
Had Stork pushed with his forces towards LEFT side of the map, then he would expand to 4th and the following reinforcements he could produce would hold off choke to his natural. At least I guess so... But he was hopelessly outmacroed and outpositioned and that ridiculous Probe transfer pretty much deprived him from effective mining at his 3rd.
I hope Baby crushes Killer like a bug. He doesn't have much leeway in this group given Calm's bizarre ability to beat better players in individual leagues and Jangbi's return to form.
Guardians own, they only suck when the terran scouts them are prepares for them adequately, which is whenever they went pure mech or went proper SK terran. Baby was utterly unprepared for them and the map is good for long ranged air units.
baby could have easily dealt with the guardians with an eraser rather than irradiating them individually. killer had like no scourge for a good 2 mins after he revealed the guardians
but the swarm push was sick and i don't think baby could have stopped that. not right in the middle of a mech switch
is the mech switch really that good? light seems to own tvz way harder and he just goes bio.
Edit: Aerial combat occurring above Modesty's base, poor drones are getting massacred. Modesty air force counters to Jaedong's base, Jaedong now pillaging natural.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
No Jaedong was better when it mattered. He got sloppy when the game was already won.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
No Jaedong was better when it mattered. He got sloppy when the game was already won.
Yeah, Jaedong didn't play perfectly but he was in control the whole time and never looked like he was gonna lose.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
No Jaedong was better when it mattered. He got sloppy when the game was already won.
Yes, that was when he was controlling his mutas poorly, hence my statement, that runby killed Modesty, what came after was a moot point.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
No Jaedong was better when it mattered. He got sloppy when the game was already won.
Exactly, at some point it didn't even matter for JD. He had an undamaged economy vs. no drones in Modesty's main. It's like when Flash played Really and sacrificed a handful of BCs. At some point it doesn't matter.
On July 15 2011 21:55 hellbound wrote: What a sloppy game
No kidding. Although I guess JD didn't have to try very hard after those ling runbys + BO advantage did most of the work for him.
Don't forget scouting advantage, Modesty really had his work cut out for him. As far as muta control went I'd say Modesty was better, still sloppy though.
No Jaedong was better when it mattered. He got sloppy when the game was already won.
Yes, that was when he was controlling his mutas poorly, hence my statement, that runby killed Modesty, what came after was a moot point.
I think the first air battle was decisive too -> JD sniped 4 Scourges with his mutas without taking a single hit.
Pak Chun O (mini dong) beating reasonably convincingly the best opponent in his group in his worst match up, Fighting. I can't believe Baby let his CC die (just needed one click of his emense APM to lift it.) That was madness. I thought Baby was gonna win when the Guardians where scouted. But a brutal attack on the front and the slip form Baby just left him in.
Jaedong always seems to look comfortable against Modesty. Very disappointed by Stork who failed miserably against Shine who wasn't all that impressive himself.
lol @ shine beating stork again today but falling to the bad protoss just a few days ago. shine definitely is better against stork/bisu than vs mediocre p. doesn't make a whole lot of sense tho xD
On July 15 2011 23:45 iNfeRnaL wrote: lol @ shine beating stork again today but falling to the bad protoss just a few days ago. shine definitely is better against stork/bisu than vs mediocre p. doesn't make a whole lot of sense tho xD
Stork played a horrible game today. Goons and Zealots fighting bravely to the end with everything they have where left wondering where the hell their scarab based heavy support was. Communications must have been down because the revaers that hadn't been lost in unfortunate shuttle accidents where blissfully unaware that any battle was even taking place. When finally pulled into action to defend Storks third from a small lurker attack the reaver on duty here once again failed. Forgetting his training that he did in fact out range his foe he wonder into the firing line and the lurkers made short work of the reavers carcas.
Well, looks like the chances of having a Protoss as a champion of individual leagues just dropped...again. Of the 2 protoss left in the OSL, both of them lost to zergs...ATLEAST MAKE THE MAPS MORE PROTOSS FAVORABLE!! D=
I don't even want to try to remember how many years has it been since the last time a protoss won an individual league.
On July 16 2011 02:56 renzy wrote: Well, looks like the chances of having a Protoss as a champion of individual leagues just dropped...again. Of the 2 protoss left in the OSL, both of them lost to zergs...ATLEAST MAKE THE MAPS MORE PROTOSS FAVORABLE!! D=
I don't even want to try to remember how many years has it been since the last time a protoss won an individual league.
Last time maps were protoss favored, aztec, bloody ridge, etc, protoss went on an absolute tear in proleague. Stork won like 90% of his games. Tyson beat Flash.
The maps are fine. Protoss need to focus on SL more than PL more.
On July 16 2011 02:56 renzy wrote: Well, looks like the chances of having a Protoss as a champion of individual leagues just dropped...again. Of the 2 protoss left in the OSL, both of them lost to zergs...ATLEAST MAKE THE MAPS MORE PROTOSS FAVORABLE!! D=
I don't even want to try to remember how many years has it been since the last time a protoss won an individual league.
Last time maps were protoss favored, aztec, bloody ridge, etc, protoss went on an absolute tear in proleague. Stork won like 90% of his games. Tyson beat Flash.
The maps are fine. Protoss need to focus on SL more than PL more.
Umm..no.
Dante's Peak and Dante's Peak SE was a zerg fest. Pathfinder is just brutal for Protoss. La mancha like the only map that's O.K for toss this OSL...
Edit: New bloody ridge is now terran favored against Protoss...=.= come on.
On July 15 2011 23:45 iNfeRnaL wrote: lol @ shine beating stork again today but falling to the bad protoss just a few days ago. shine definitely is better against stork/bisu than vs mediocre p. doesn't make a whole lot of sense tho xD
Stork played a horrible game today. Goons and Zealots fighting bravely to the end with everything they have where left wondering where the hell their scarab based heavy support was. Communications must have been down because the revaers that hadn't been lost in unfortunate shuttle accidents where blissfully unaware that any battle was even taking place. When finally pulled into action to defend Storks third from a small lurker attack the reaver on duty here once again failed. Forgetting his training that he did in fact out range his foe he wonder into the firing line and the lurkers made short work of the reavers carcas.
Such a poetic description... You should write some battle reports. I mean I would surely like it.
On July 15 2011 23:45 iNfeRnaL wrote: lol @ shine beating stork again today but falling to the bad protoss just a few days ago. shine definitely is better against stork/bisu than vs mediocre p. doesn't make a whole lot of sense tho xD
Stork played a horrible game today. Goons and Zealots fighting bravely to the end with everything they have where left wondering where the hell their scarab based heavy support was. Communications must have been down because the revaers that hadn't been lost in unfortunate shuttle accidents where blissfully unaware that any battle was even taking place. When finally pulled into action to defend Storks third from a small lurker attack the reaver on duty here once again failed. Forgetting his training that he did in fact out range his foe he wonder into the firing line and the lurkers made short work of the reavers carcas.
lol, someone needs to bump that photoshop thread where they make fun of Stork not being able to PvZ; the one that is similar to terrans complaining about queens, cant' seem to find it...
On July 16 2011 02:56 renzy wrote: Well, looks like the chances of having a Protoss as a champion of individual leagues just dropped...again. Of the 2 protoss left in the OSL, both of them lost to zergs...ATLEAST MAKE THE MAPS MORE PROTOSS FAVORABLE!! D=
I don't even want to try to remember how many years has it been since the last time a protoss won an individual league.
Last time maps were protoss favored, aztec, bloody ridge, etc, protoss went on an absolute tear in proleague. Stork won like 90% of his games. Tyson beat Flash.
The maps are fine. Protoss need to focus on SL more than PL more.
Umm..no.
Dante's Peak and Dante's Peak SE was a zerg fest. Pathfinder is just brutal for Protoss. La mancha like the only map that's O.K for toss this OSL...
Edit: New bloody ridge is now terran favored against Protoss...=.= come on.
This day just got awesome: A) Killer wins. B) Jaedong wins. C) Jaedong has his twitter back up. D) FUCK YEAH OZ, they might be out of playoffs but let's see them dominate starleagues.
Although I'm kinda sad about Hiya, but what can you do against Sea.
Just read through the whole LR, seems like exciting games all around. Can't wait till work is over so I can go home and watch them. Seems like Killer's game went from " oh no he just lost 4 mutas carelessly" to "wtf CC down" in no time at all.
And on a side note, we need to delay temp banning Toss fanboys whenever Stork or Bisu play, especially against shine, the moment you see that guy get banned, I knew Stork had lost lol.
and yay for Hwaseung Zergs, Hiya needs to get back in form, but I'm still rooting for Sea.
On July 15 2011 21:43 pinkranger15 wrote: wtf O_O i just came! anybody pls give a gif of that badass move by jaedong!
Meh, missed that. I hope it will be in the VOD :/
Watched it now( <3 moktira). The hidden smile after the thumb down was sooo good :3
Where does it actually happen? I watched it live but didn't see anything :O?
Player entrances, after the replay of the previous game. I normally do something in between the games, so I quit the stream and always miss those and all the other stuff(statistics).
First game was an excellent though outmoded TvT with lots of drop play from both players. Stroing showing from Hiya but he couldn't capitalize the advantages obtained in the engagements and Sea's solid macro won him the game.
It is sad to see Stork in such a deep slump, i'm starting to think he's going to leave Khan to Ace. but Shine played really well. Specially, he shut down all harass from Stork.
Didn't saw the third game
Fourth game was just sloppy from both players. Jaedong always 12hatch... this time, he got a BO advantage. Damn, i hate ZvZ.
On July 16 2011 07:23 legaton wrote: First game was an excellent though outmoded TvT with lots of drop play from both players. Stroing showing from Hiya but he couldn't capitalize the advantages obtained in the engagements and Sea's solid macro won him the game.
It is sad to see Stork in such a deep slump, i'm starting to think he's going to leave Khan to Ace. but Shine played really well. Specially, he shut down all harass from Stork.
Didn't saw the third game
Fourth game was just sloppy from both players. Jaedong always 12hatch... this time, he got a BO advantage. Damn, i hate ZvZ.
I don't think Stork can go to Ace considering he has poor vision (glasses and all.)
Also, JD wasn't sloppy until the end. 12 hatch was smart considering his early scout. He saw the creep, noticed no spawn on bottom, threw down the 12 hatch, scouted the late pool (12 pool) and then it was just low-ling count from there. His runby was also quite clean. Then, the first couple of mutas were very cleanly microed and gave JD a decisive advantage with the runby. After that, he could afford to be sloppy and therefore was. :/ Nothing wrong with it. He played well until the end IMO.
WTF guys, Stork just came from a 4 gaming winning streak....is only 6-4 in the last games...if anyone could have 60% of win rate consistently, he would be considered as their ace!
On July 16 2011 08:12 Xiphos wrote: WTF guys, Stork just came from a 4 gaming winning streak....is only 6-4 in the last games...if anyone could have 60% of win rate consistently, he would be considered as their ace!
That's shine. OSL time, and he kill Stork and/or Bisu. Generates hate, but becomes a legend doing it.
I don't think Stork has to panic yet. He just needs to practice his versus Z for Hydra and hope the other matches go in his favour. If things play out right, Stork needs only beat Hydra for the time being.
This leads to a 3-way tiebreaker between everyone except Flash, and Stork only has to practice one matchup. Assuming Stork beats Hydra, the other 3 matches are the most likely scenario. Stork is better off focusing on the Hydra match because if Stork beats Flash but loses to Hydra, then he needs Shine to beat both Flash and Hydra to force a tiebreaker, which is ludicrous.