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On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory
No sir you are wrong, the point of the timing push was to get into the nat as fast as possible, he didn't siege IMMEDIATELY, but he did siege, hardly a mistake. (there was a point where it was like 10 vultures vs 2 goons and bisu had to transfer all his probes from the nat after he ALREADY LOST probes) After that, he continued to be aggressive attacking 3oclock because Bisu didn't fully stabilize at that point to macro freely. The push @ 12 that followed up after the failed attempts was decent, but Bisu uncharacteristically made hts and did some really good defense(Hiya played well, I don't see why you say otherwise - his macro was good his micro was good, its not like he had idle afk units.)
Until Bisu did the second reaver drop he was still behind, so I don't see what you're talking about 3base T vs 3 base P is incredibly hard especially in the positions they were in.
Stop hating, the game WAS GOOD -> lots of action, wasn't just a sit back a move into 1 push PvT gg, and Bisu came from behind to win. If you had any credentials in skill maybe we could take your rants more seriously, but until then just appreciate a good game when you see one.
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On June 27 2011 13:12 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 08:23 Muirhead wrote:On June 27 2011 08:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 07:53 erin[go]bragh wrote:On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory No offense, but what the hell do you consider a good game then? It was full of aggressive rushes, timing pushes, harassment... if that's a "shit" game of BW, then I don't understand why you would even watch. Every win is the result of an opponent's mistakes. Should we not cheer when a scarab goes off in a mineral line, and instead scoff and say "shitty game, he didn't pull his scvs in time."? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but seriously, when you reach a point where you suck the fun out of a game by nitpicking, you should reconsider why you watch StarCraft in the first place. P.S, this isn't directed solely at you, but to anyone who can't just shut up and appreciate an exciting StarCraft game because of bias or some perfectionist agenda, I don't even know. And, for the record, Bisu fans are famous for this. Then again, so are his anti-fans.  i think a game is good if it goes back and forth, has some funny cheese/all-in, or showcases some insane micro skills a game which gets decided after a failed push isnt a good game I have a question. Since you can understand the commentators were they saying that Hiya was behind after the failed push? It was my impression while watching that the push did enough damage to put him slightly ahead. I thought Bisu only started leading after the speed reaver harass. yes they were saying he was behind. he hadnt had a third up and his scv saturation would have been lower than it could have been...because he invested so much into facs. and 6 tanks + 15? vultures isnt cheap so hiya had to destroy bisus 3rd/nat. which he didnt. Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 08:21 renzy wrote:
Uh, no, after that 4 fac push, Hiya was ahead. Yes, Hiya had poor saturation, but that push killed pretty much half of Bisu's probes while Hiya actually got a 3rd up. Hiya was in a GREAT position after that attack, because he essentially left Bisu with 2 bases when he's on 3. Bisu managed to claw his way back with harassments with the speed shuttle, he would've been done for if it wasn't for that. wrong. he was behind economically already since his push didnt do enough dmg. killed half the probes? they killed like 2 before they were maynarded back the reaver harrass sealed the game, not bring bisu back into it
The commentators could be wrong though. There were several times they missed something quite visible for the viewers. You can see in the write ups of OSL, MSL or PL, TL writers have been seeing the things that commentators missed since the writers watched the games several times not like the commentators, they were watching the game live and had to make the call immediately. That's why sometimes they seems unsure and makes some ambiguous comments. Especially in the big fight, the commentators have to make the game exciting by focusing on the fighting unit, not on the probes that are being killed. It's true if they have all the information they can make far better comments and judgement than most of us here on TL, even the writers (maybe), but it's not the case sometimes.
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On June 27 2011 09:53 zobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 07:53 erin[go]bragh wrote:On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory No offense, but what the hell do you consider a good game then? It was full of aggressive rushes, timing pushes, harassment... if that's a "shit" game of BW, then I don't understand why you would even watch. Every win is the result of an opponent's mistakes. Should we not cheer when a scarab goes off in a mineral line, and instead scoff and say "shitty game, he didn't pull his scvs in time."? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but seriously, when you reach a point where you suck the fun out of a game by nitpicking, you should reconsider why you watch StarCraft in the first place. P.S, this isn't directed solely at you, but to anyone who can't just shut up and appreciate an exciting StarCraft game because of bias or some perfectionist agenda, I don't even know. And, for the record, Bisu fans are famous for this. Then again, so are his anti-fans. I consider there to be much more merit in watching a competitive sport to analyze the play and critique it and expect to actually be inspired by how skilled the players are, than to just be in it for "simple fun" like watching lots of explosions and lots of stuff dying at the same time, and fast paced action for its own sake regardless of what exactly it is that's happening so quickly. Besides that if you watch sports just to follow the players and hope for them to be successful, for that to be meaningful you of course need the players to be worth watching for some quantifiable reason and for them to be successful at something which actually deserves any credit. I understand that you're just trying to put people down for criticizing this game undeservingly, but you're coming off as if you think they should not be critical of the players' skill at all, which is both shallow and absurd.
The fuck? He said it was a shit game of starcraft. I asked why. Criticizing play is one thing. But the most impressive of plays are those which are won from a disadvantageous position, which is where Bisu was during that timing push. If you're at a disadvantage, you're pretty much by definition shit out of luck unless you're opponent makes mistakes, which Hiya did, no doubt. But that doesn't discount Bisu's achievement. And to discount any play that doesn't involve test book perfect play is shallow and absurd.
Edit: For the record, I'm pretty damn drunk right now, so apologies if I totally missed the point of your post. Yes, we should be critical of people's skill. That's why I have my love/hate relationship with by.hero. I was referring only to this game, which IMO was damn exciting to watch, which, when push comes to shove, is the driving reason behind watching any SC game.
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On June 27 2011 11:43 Muirhead wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 11:16 prototype. wrote:On June 27 2011 08:22 Kipsate wrote:
Hiya was too aggresive in my opinion, he could have made a contain with his siege tanks and a turret, instead he opted to push with siege tanks unsieged, perhaps Bisu would have broken it, but Hiya could have taken out the third by then.
Then again its all an if game, Bisu played well and actually used Hts in PvT(How come he never does that). Did the replay show hiya already researched siege? I know he sieged after several tanks died but it's possible his research just wasn't done during the attack. He had siege. He used it to deflect the ranged goons that were hitting the bunker outside his natural several minutes before his push.
Ah okay... i must have missed that
Very dumb move by hiya then... he had so many tanks too 
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Aw...we were denied a Bisu vs. Jaedong? Oh darn.
And Fantasy vs. Jaedong was so...anticlimactic? Sigh...
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JD vs Fanta was LOL.
2 scv vs 3 hatch
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On June 27 2011 15:59 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 13:12 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 08:23 Muirhead wrote:On June 27 2011 08:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 07:53 erin[go]bragh wrote:On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory No offense, but what the hell do you consider a good game then? It was full of aggressive rushes, timing pushes, harassment... if that's a "shit" game of BW, then I don't understand why you would even watch. Every win is the result of an opponent's mistakes. Should we not cheer when a scarab goes off in a mineral line, and instead scoff and say "shitty game, he didn't pull his scvs in time."? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but seriously, when you reach a point where you suck the fun out of a game by nitpicking, you should reconsider why you watch StarCraft in the first place. P.S, this isn't directed solely at you, but to anyone who can't just shut up and appreciate an exciting StarCraft game because of bias or some perfectionist agenda, I don't even know. And, for the record, Bisu fans are famous for this. Then again, so are his anti-fans. i think a game is good if it goes back and forth, has some funny cheese/all-in, or showcases some insane micro skills a game which gets decided after a failed push isnt a good game I have a question. Since you can understand the commentators were they saying that Hiya was behind after the failed push? It was my impression while watching that the push did enough damage to put him slightly ahead. I thought Bisu only started leading after the speed reaver harass. yes they were saying he was behind. he hadnt had a third up and his scv saturation would have been lower than it could have been...because he invested so much into facs. and 6 tanks + 15? vultures isnt cheap so hiya had to destroy bisus 3rd/nat. which he didnt. On June 27 2011 08:21 renzy wrote:
Uh, no, after that 4 fac push, Hiya was ahead. Yes, Hiya had poor saturation, but that push killed pretty much half of Bisu's probes while Hiya actually got a 3rd up. Hiya was in a GREAT position after that attack, because he essentially left Bisu with 2 bases when he's on 3. Bisu managed to claw his way back with harassments with the speed shuttle, he would've been doneto for if it wasn't for that. wrong. he was behind economically already since his push didnt do enough dmg. killed half the probes? they killed like 2 before they were maynarded back the reaver harrass sealed the game, not bring bisu back into it The commentators could be wrong though. There were several times they missed something quite visible for the viewers. You can see in the write ups of OSL, MSL or PL, TL writers have been seeing the things that commentators missed since the writers watched the games several times not like the commentators, they were watching the game live and had to make the call immediately. That's why sometimes they seems unsure and makes some ambiguous comments. Especially in the big fight, the commentators have to make the game exciting by focusing on the fighting unit, not on the probes that are being killed. It's true if they have all the information they can make far better comments and judgement than most of us here on TL, even the writers (maybe), but it's not the case sometimes.
possible but i highly doubt it
and if i had to choose who to believe id definitely go with shark and themarine's interpretation of the situation than the tlers here anyday
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On June 27 2011 19:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 15:59 chisuri wrote:On June 27 2011 13:12 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 08:23 Muirhead wrote:On June 27 2011 08:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 07:53 erin[go]bragh wrote:On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory No offense, but what the hell do you consider a good game then? It was full of aggressive rushes, timing pushes, harassment... if that's a "shit" game of BW, then I don't understand why you would even watch. Every win is the result of an opponent's mistakes. Should we not cheer when a scarab goes off in a mineral line, and instead scoff and say "shitty game, he didn't pull his scvs in time."? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but seriously, when you reach a point where you suck the fun out of a game by nitpicking, you should reconsider why you watch StarCraft in the first place. P.S, this isn't directed solely at you, but to anyone who can't just shut up and appreciate an exciting StarCraft game because of bias or some perfectionist agenda, I don't even know. And, for the record, Bisu fans are famous for this. Then again, so are his anti-fans. i think a game is good if it goes back and forth, has some funny cheese/all-in, or showcases some insane micro skills a game which gets decided after a failed push isnt a good game I have a question. Since you can understand the commentators were they saying that Hiya was behind after the failed push? It was my impression while watching that the push did enough damage to put him slightly ahead. I thought Bisu only started leading after the speed reaver harass. yes they were saying he was behind. he hadnt had a third up and his scv saturation would have been lower than it could have been...because he invested so much into facs. and 6 tanks + 15? vultures isnt cheap so hiya had to destroy bisus 3rd/nat. which he didnt. On June 27 2011 08:21 renzy wrote:
Uh, no, after that 4 fac push, Hiya was ahead. Yes, Hiya had poor saturation, but that push killed pretty much half of Bisu's probes while Hiya actually got a 3rd up. Hiya was in a GREAT position after that attack, because he essentially left Bisu with 2 bases when he's on 3. Bisu managed to claw his way back with harassments with the speed shuttle, he would've been doneto for if it wasn't for that. wrong. he was behind economically already since his push didnt do enough dmg. killed half the probes? they killed like 2 before they were maynarded back the reaver harrass sealed the game, not bring bisu back into it The commentators could be wrong though. There were several times they missed something quite visible for the viewers. You can see in the write ups of OSL, MSL or PL, TL writers have been seeing the things that commentators missed since the writers watched the games several times not like the commentators, they were watching the game live and had to make the call immediately. That's why sometimes they seems unsure and makes some ambiguous comments. Especially in the big fight, the commentators have to make the game exciting by focusing on the fighting unit, not on the probes that are being killed. It's true if they have all the information they can make far better comments and judgement than most of us here on TL, even the writers (maybe), but it's not the case sometimes. possible but i highly doubt it and if i had to choose who to believe id definitely go with shark and themarine's interpretation of the situation than the tlers here anyday
Why don't you watch the game and interpret it yourself?
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i have
my interpretation of the game is what i have been arguing. ive merely been referring to the commentators as support for my interpretation
On June 27 2011 14:01 dRaW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 07:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 27 2011 03:02 BisuDagger wrote:On June 27 2011 00:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
what the hell....i watched game 1 because everyone was saying how well bisu played and all i have to say is
the game was crap.
i dont get why people hyped it up so much...bisu didnt do anything spectacular....hiya did
he failed spectacularly cause he got cocky with his push and didnt siege units and concentrate.
after that all bisu had to do was harrass hiya a couple times and he had the game in the bag Not sure if you understand brood war or if u have two of hydra's bad eye. explanation: + Show Spoiler +1. The game was amazing because of Bisu's perfect timing in taking down the first bunker with just two zealots and bringing in probes just in time. Then he micros perfectly while producing more units to take down the second bunker while just barely sniping the last marine with a dragoon.
2. Bisu then takes a third which over extends any lesser player while Hiya has a perfect timing push with a five fact build. With just a single control group of dragoons bisu was able to dodge dozens of mines laid out while continuing to snipe tanks. Backed up into his nat he cleverly used a shuttle to do goon drops while just finally having an observer out to help detect mines. Even with minedrag working against him he was able to prevent an even number of tanks to his dragoons +countless vultures.
3. Bisu managed to keep tech up regardless of the harrass and had some amazing late game storms and at one point stasised hiyas whole army in the middle of the map.
4. Bisu played like the god of protoss. Any lesser player would have lost which is why the game was so amazing. no. thats your fanboyism exaggerating bisus play. i am a bisu fan myself and theres nothing i like seeing more than bisu showcasing some god skill but this game wasnt an example of god skill. 1. perfect timing? he could have waited for 2 more dragoons and it would have produced the same result. even the commentators were saying that he didnt have to destroy the bunker then. i agree that the 2 dragoons vs 6 marines was very good. but thats the best thing we saw all game 2. like i said earlier, bisu won because of hiyas fail. it was FAR from a perfect push: hiya a clicked 6 tanks and only focused on his vultures. even after taking out 2 or 3 goons with mines and reaching the nat, hiya refuses to siege up and lay mines out in front. he walks INTO the natural meaning his tanks are now pretty much over his own mines. bisu holds his ramp and kills the remaining vultures while goon bombing one or 2 tanks. hiya has 3 tanks left and virtually no vultures. he sieges 1 tank whos on red hp which dies to goons after landing one hit. he then sieges the other 2 which are also killed. AFTER all the tanks are dead he comes with 10 vultures or so which he should have brought earlier because they were just sitting at his base and they dont do much damage 3. what harrass? after the 6tank push there was no harrass from hiya all game. he tried but bisu was so far ahead all bisu had to do was wall and cannon up. storms were good to see from bisu and statising the whole army was pretty much the ceremony 4. bisu played well. he defended the bunker rushes decently and he capitalised well on hiyas blunders. after that he rode his advantage to victory No sir you are wrong, the point of the timing push was to get into the nat as fast as possible, he didn't siege IMMEDIATELY, but he did siege, hardly a mistake. (there was a point where it was like 10 vultures vs 2 goons and bisu had to transfer all his probes from the nat after he ALREADY LOST probes) After that, he continued to be aggressive attacking 3oclock because Bisu didn't fully stabilize at that point to macro freely. The push @ 12 that followed up after the failed attempts was decent, but Bisu uncharacteristically made hts and did some really good defense(Hiya played well, I don't see why you say otherwise - his macro was good his micro was good, its not like he had idle afk units.) Until Bisu did the second reaver drop he was still behind, so I don't see what you're talking about 3base T vs 3 base P is incredibly hard especially in the positions they were in. Stop hating, the game WAS GOOD -> lots of action, wasn't just a sit back a move into 1 push PvT gg, and Bisu came from behind to win. If you had any credentials in skill maybe we could take your rants more seriously, but until then just appreciate a good game when you see one.
hiyas play was good until the push. i dont know if you noticed. but 10 vultures arrived AFTER the tanks died. he had 4 facs producing vultures only and they stacked up to 10 before he decided to bring them. that means idle afk units
and it wasnt 3base vs 3base right after the push. when the push was fully defended the 3rd cc just went up, and even then the scv saturation was horrible. all bisu had to do was tech up and play standard because hiya wouldnt be able to push out again. hiyas only option was to make another timing push at 1-1 upgrades before arbiter tech kicks in but bisu had ht so the game was over.
maybe when i said the game was shit i was being a little hard. but it wasnt deserving of this much hype. i guess most tlers here enjoy lots of explosions and lots of magic skill usage rather than trying to observe the play and learn from it
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O shut up you clueless newbies.
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On June 27 2011 19:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:
maybe when i said the game was shit i was being a little hard. but it wasnt deserving of this much hype. i guess most tlers here enjoy lots of explosions and lots of magic skill usage rather than trying to observe the play and learn from it
wow that is very arrogant, i would love to ask why u r a try hard like this in bw forums? your point is not just rude towards to majority of the TRUE fanbase of a player and game, but also you are being rude to other watchers. plus your points and reasoning are terribly wrong.
you are trying to claim that watching christiano ronaldo or messi do few tricks during a football game is not amusing at all? or not just tricks but the whole team succesfully executing some attack but doesnt matter if it makes them score or not, and you dont find any of those amusing?
you are very wrong about some stuff bro.
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On June 28 2011 00:38 Reyis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 19:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:
maybe when i said the game was shit i was being a little hard. but it wasnt deserving of this much hype. i guess most tlers here enjoy lots of explosions and lots of magic skill usage rather than trying to observe the play and learn from it wow that is very arrogant, i would love to ask why u r a try hard like this in bw forums? your point is not just rude towards to majority of the TRUE fanbase of a player and game, but also you are being rude to other watchers. plus your points and reasoning are terribly wrong. you are trying to claim that watching christiano ronaldo or messi do few tricks during a football game is not amusing at all? or not just tricks but the whole team succesfully executing some attack but doesnt matter if it makes them score or not, and you dont find any of those amusing? you are very wrong about some stuff bro.
theres nothing try hard about stating the reasons for why i believe it wasnt a game people hyped it to be. and what exactly are the characteristics of being a "true" fan? a blind bisu/flash fanboy who have ragewars every time skt vs kt is on? a fanboy who cant accept that their favourite player lost and makes up excuses instead? "jd must be tired" "flash's wrist must have been in bad condition"
tbh if my comments seem rude to them i dont care, cause quite frankly theyre just pathetic fanboys. of course not every fanboy is like that, im merely pointing out the ones who are sore losers.
where have i made the claim that ronaldo/messi's tricks arent fun to watch? do you read? i have already said i enjoy watching players show some brilliant skill, but thats got nothing to do with what im arguing here. im saying the game wasnt as close as people make it out to be
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On June 28 2011 00:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 00:38 Reyis wrote:On June 27 2011 19:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:
maybe when i said the game was shit i was being a little hard. but it wasnt deserving of this much hype. i guess most tlers here enjoy lots of explosions and lots of magic skill usage rather than trying to observe the play and learn from it wow that is very arrogant, i would love to ask why u r a try hard like this in bw forums? your point is not just rude towards to majority of the TRUE fanbase of a player and game, but also you are being rude to other watchers. plus your points and reasoning are terribly wrong. you are trying to claim that watching christiano ronaldo or messi do few tricks during a football game is not amusing at all? or not just tricks but the whole team succesfully executing some attack but doesnt matter if it makes them score or not, and you dont find any of those amusing? you are very wrong about some stuff bro. theres nothing try hard about stating the reasons for why i believe it wasnt a game people hyped it to be. and what exactly are the characteristics of being a "true" fan? a blind bisu/flash fanboy who have ragewars every time skt vs kt is on? a fanboy who cant accept that their favourite player lost and makes up excuses instead? "jd must be tired" "flash's wrist must have been in bad condition" tbh if my comments seem rude to them i dont care, cause quite frankly theyre just pathetic fanboys. of course not every fanboy is like that, im merely pointing out the ones who are sore losers. where have i made the claim that ronaldo/messi's tricks arent fun to watch? do you read? i have already said i enjoy watching players show some brilliant skill, but thats got nothing to do with what im arguing here. im saying the game wasnt as close as people make it out to be
well apperantly u and 1-2 more people didnt liked the game while rest of the posters here liked it. so i still dont see what are you trying to prove at here. just enjoy the game please instead of hating on everything.
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On June 28 2011 01:00 Reyis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 00:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:On June 28 2011 00:38 Reyis wrote:On June 27 2011 19:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:
maybe when i said the game was shit i was being a little hard. but it wasnt deserving of this much hype. i guess most tlers here enjoy lots of explosions and lots of magic skill usage rather than trying to observe the play and learn from it wow that is very arrogant, i would love to ask why u r a try hard like this in bw forums? your point is not just rude towards to majority of the TRUE fanbase of a player and game, but also you are being rude to other watchers. plus your points and reasoning are terribly wrong. you are trying to claim that watching christiano ronaldo or messi do few tricks during a football game is not amusing at all? or not just tricks but the whole team succesfully executing some attack but doesnt matter if it makes them score or not, and you dont find any of those amusing? you are very wrong about some stuff bro. theres nothing try hard about stating the reasons for why i believe it wasnt a game people hyped it to be. and what exactly are the characteristics of being a "true" fan? a blind bisu/flash fanboy who have ragewars every time skt vs kt is on? a fanboy who cant accept that their favourite player lost and makes up excuses instead? "jd must be tired" "flash's wrist must have been in bad condition" tbh if my comments seem rude to them i dont care, cause quite frankly theyre just pathetic fanboys. of course not every fanboy is like that, im merely pointing out the ones who are sore losers. where have i made the claim that ronaldo/messi's tricks arent fun to watch? do you read? i have already said i enjoy watching players show some brilliant skill, but thats got nothing to do with what im arguing here. im saying the game wasnt as close as people make it out to be well apperantly u and 1-2 more people didnt liked the game while rest of the posters here liked it. so i still dont see what are you trying to prove at here. just enjoy the game please instead of hating on everything.
i dont know where everyone got the idea that i was raging about how the game was unenjoyable. im trying to argue that it just wasnt that good of a game as everyone was saying
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I can't exactly turn it to words right now, but I hope that someday these LR threads would turn to a little more object point of view on the games.
This is just so unnecessary for one guy to defend his supposed "hate" for the life of him against a bunch of guys saying that he supposedly is "wrong" and "hating everything" and the other way around. I'd love to read the more critizised analyzes of even the most amazing or hyped gameplays more, since I don't have yet the gamesense or knowledge to instantly see those things. This would help everyone here as a player to improve since it would also give the insight on what not to do.
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I'd like to take the time to thank iccup for leading me to teamliquid, and thank teamliquid for opening the window to proleague, something I thought was dead since I quit playing brood war around 2002 or 3. Bisu vs Hiya was the most fuck off amazing game I have ever seen in all of e-sports.. it was das Scheisse as my old friend Bugs who doesn't speak german illogically used to say when he meant something was awesome It was the godly multitasking, the REVO REVO REVOO, the look on that Terrans face when his imba tank push and sneaky vulture back-stab got denied. That cute korean girls face full of joy and anticipation for the catharsis gg to follow. and Bisu so fucking calm when his bridge got invaded. All that and a bag of chips + the hater tears made this so sweat. Recognize!
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Sanya12364 Posts
On June 28 2011 03:24 FourFace wrote:
I'd like to take the time to thank iccup for leading me to teamliquid, and thank teamliquid for opening the window to proleague, something I thought was dead since I quit playing brood war around 2002 or 3. Bisu vs Hiya was the most fuck off amazing game I have ever seen in all of e-sports.. it was das Scheisse as my old friend Bugs who doesn't speak german illogically used to say when he meant something was awesome It was the godly multitasking, the REVO REVO REVOO, the look on that Terrans face when his imba tank push and sneaky vulture back-stab got denied. That cute korean girls face full of joy and anticipation for the catharsis gg to follow. and Bisu so fucking calm when his bridge got invaded. All that and a bag of chips + the hater tears made this so sweat. Recognize!
Some of these games rated as watch are certainly "you had to be there, live" sort of moments. If you knew the results or had any sort of high expectations, the game would lose much of its appeal. It'd be nice to have one of as the choices especially when a player pulls out one of those mind-boggling defenses.
It's never going to be perfect play but it is going to be a reversal of fortune or a glimmer of hope that comes out of a single misstep by the opponent or a stroke of genius by the player.
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What did T1 do to our beloved Bunkie?
edit: And Perfectman failed hard.
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On June 27 2011 10:23 disciple wrote:
I cant believe ppl are so doubtful towards Bisu's PvT. He is undefeated against terran in regular PL format this year. His only losses to terran came in WL.
Ya, it's definitely time to give up the ''Bisu has weak PvT''-thingy. He has definitely proven it's sick good.
+ Show Spoiler +Still not better than Flash's TvP though. 
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On June 28 2011 04:57 Disregard wrote:
What did T1 do to our beloved Bunkie?
edit: And Perfectman failed hard.
Bunkie was on break. That was his sister!
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EPT
