Game 1: Don't bother Game 2: Winner played it nice, but the game is not really worth watching Game 3: Great game, recommended Game 4: Not a really good, but quite an amusing game. Check it out if have some spare time Game 5: Great game, recommended
On June 12 2011 01:46 dukethegold wrote: Don't mods usually ban the thread if it has no content? :p
It seems as if disciple's name is red though. I remember he was a bit annoyed when he asked me not to make an LR and then someone else took it, so I doubt he wants that again.
On June 12 2011 06:00 Ermac wrote: Why are you SKT1 guys so bitter? =(
who's bitter?
Those guys who so desperately want Flash to lose not only once but twice just because their favourite players cannot match his accomplishments. =/
Rofl the guy who posted that is not a SKT fan, and his his favorite player is not even in the SKT team lol. Also if you read it carefully the number of random non-KT guys who desperately want Bisu and BeSt to lose here is even bigger lol. The bitter guys are not SKT or KT fans this time ^^.
On June 12 2011 06:00 Ermac wrote: Why are you SKT1 guys so bitter? =(
who's bitter?
Those guys who so desperately want Flash to lose not only once but twice just because their favourite players cannot match his accomplishments. =/
Rofl the guy who posted that is not a SKT fan, and his his favorite player is not even in the SKT team lol. Also if you read it carefully the number of random non-KT guys who desperately want Bisu and BeSt to lose here is even bigger lol. The bitter guys are not SKT or KT fans this time ^^.
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
nah it's fine, we need a bit boiling blood in these threads, where is the fun otherwise ;D espececially for SKTvKT this is far too tame so far, but there's still a lot of time
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
nah it's fine, we need a bit boiling blood in these threads, where is the fun otherwise ;D espececially for SKTvKT this is far too tame so far, but there's still a lot of time
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
nah it's fine, we need a bit boiling blood in these threads, where is the fun otherwise ;D espececially for SKTvKT this is far too tame so far, but there's still a lot of time
YEAH YEAH MOTHERFUCKIN' BEST
^ Is gonna happen again yeeeahhhhh
i tried to gentry overlook the getting naked part and was just referring to the Miss A and 4Minute moves but damn
you had to go and post it
(of course that was the first thing that came to mind, Nada's Body thread be damned)
This is going to be wierd, but it looks like i'm going to cheer for skt this time and hope flash gets owned twice... gogo BeSt, i wana see 30 gates this time!
On June 12 2011 08:35 AppleTart wrote: Why do people hate Flash even more just because he stomped Zero... Do you people really think Zero deserved to win?
On June 12 2011 08:35 AppleTart wrote: Why do people hate Flash even more just because he stomped Zero... Do you people really think Zero deserved to win?
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
nah it's fine, we need a bit boiling blood in these threads, where is the fun otherwise ;D espececially for SKTvKT this is far too tame so far, but there's still a lot of time
YEAH YEAH MOTHERFUCKIN' BEST
^ Is gonna happen again yeeeahhhhh
So tacky. Flash shows his Alpha maleness in the game.
On June 12 2011 08:35 AppleTart wrote: Why do people hate Flash even more just because he stomped Zero... Do you people really think Zero deserved to win?
Hate Flash? No, but seeing him lose a game would be satisfying.
Did ZerO "deserve to win"? No - he lost. (Dude seriously needs to win a title at some point though.) But it's not like he got completely stomped in any one game... we've seen way worse finals recently including at least some of the FvJ games.
It's not about hate.
It's about revenge.
(All that said, SKT beat us last week, so an ideal result would be Flash loses, KT wins. Although I think in the playoff scenario KT losing is more beneficial than SKT losing. Net result: I actually don't care, but would kinda like to see BeSt run the Ultimate Weapon over with many many units. Because that's always good.)
I meant Lightwip, who wholeheartedly agreed with him and even said that losing twice "won't nearly be enough".
Anways, let's not derail further. Sorry to have started this, my comment was rather meant as some friendly banter =)
nah it's fine, we need a bit boiling blood in these threads, where is the fun otherwise ;D espececially for SKTvKT this is far too tame so far, but there's still a lot of time
YEAH YEAH MOTHERFUCKIN' BEST
^ Is gonna happen again yeeeahhhhh
Best: rips shirt off after winning a single match Flash: Wins 6 starleagues and keeps his shirt on
KT Fans have the cutest "insults", the hair, golly gee ;D
somehow i have a feeling that me staying up for this is gonna influence SKT's chances pretty badly >_> then again mustaju kinda jinxed it for KT with his prediction so...hope
I'm going out drinking with friends tonight... But I'd really rather be here watching this surely-to-be-epic match.
But alas, BW has forced me to be anti-social too many times this month, so I have to give in on this one. I'll be rooting for my boy Kim Taek Yong as I'm taking shots though!
I really wonder who SKT will send to face Flash. They have 3 players that could "possibly" take him on (fantasy, bisu, best). or they could just send cannon fodder towards Flash and hope the rest of the team can clean up...
On June 12 2011 10:28 Shurayuki wrote: KT Fans have the cutest "insults", the hair, golly gee ;D
somehow i have a feeling that me staying up for this is gonna influence SKT's chances pretty badly >_> then again mustaju kinda jinxed it for KT with his prediction so...hope
On June 12 2011 12:50 pinkranger15 wrote: awesome thread. i wonder how he did it. :O
This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!
On June 12 2011 13:08 VGhost wrote: This is like the least hype-matching way possible to start this match. :/
Well the MSL final was the day before and this thread was made just 1 day before unlike other SKT vs KT thread.
I meant the matchup, not the thread. Okay player vs bad player, the worst mirror (although I kind of like all the mirrors tbh). Was hoping for Bisu or Flash early to get things really heated.
On June 12 2011 13:27 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Poor s2 - anything but ZvT Ah well, could've been worse, could've been Flash lol.
look at the bright side this is a chance for him to beat up a lesser terran and start gaining confidence
sheesh, one fangirl braiding another's hair, with their backs to the camera, and they still try to duck away
12hatch at the nat
Well, there is that, tho I think Barracks has a lot of talent.
What amazed me with the hair-braiding was how the girl whose hair was being braided, managed to avoid the camera without displacing any of the previous work!
On June 12 2011 13:39 mustaju wrote: s2 sucks. No surprise.
You know he's actually your 2nd favorite player after Bisu. That's why you're trying so hard to deny it. .
Nope, that would, according to you, still be Fantasy.
Well you play Zerg and s2 is zerg. The only reason you like Bisu more is because he's perfect in every way. You said it yourself, he is far above the bonjwas and a being of absolute good.
On June 12 2011 13:47 SimonB wrote: I like how SKT fans have set up Best as if he's a rival to Flash.
Yeah, if he's really that worthy then he should try to qualify for the Bo5 elimination stage of a starleague. To meet Flash and become the receiving end of a 3-0.
On June 12 2011 13:52 Vasoline73 wrote: The only time Flash and BeSt met where it mattered BeSt choked horribly and lost 0-3. What is there to talk about?
zealot dropped to take sunken attention, another reaver drop finally bisu sees the other hatcheries with his sairs still gets more ovie kills near action's nat
sairs check out action's nat again, fewer hydra there now, but mutas are out, sairs flee, 1 picked off 2 picked off now muta/hydra gathering near bisu's nat choke
I'm watching this and thinking if you could somehow combine Action with Kwanro you'd have the ultimate (proleague) Zerg: cheesy as hell, excellent early-mid game, scary late game.
bisu on 6 gates now, reaver clears out the ling at 1.5action in pretty good shape
shuttle heading out again towards action's main 4 hydra are there, 1 zealot takes their attention another zealot drop, reaver gets one drone as the rest burrow
1 reaver surrounded by lings and lost, action loses his nat bisu's army pretty small now after rolling through so many units but aciton concedes as the shuttle heads into his main
Action has drop tech researched! Bisu's main is mined out, zealots spot the OL's 3 OL's worth dropped into the main Womanball of death moving down the nat choke Drop in the womans main getting cleaned up Defiler barley surviving, gets taken out Womanstorms on the drones I bet Bisu is applying make up Action's hatchery goes down in the nat
I think Bisu wasn't expecting the gg quite there. Certainly I think that was premature, Action should have had better econ despite storms, more bases, only tech he lost was spire, etc.
On June 12 2011 14:11 Zona wrote: bisu still looks tense
action played a great game today
yeah definitely, he did well holding off bisu's ht/reaver/goon/zealot/archon army, I mean that mix up must be a nightmare to deal with. But that harass with the shuttle had a large impact :D BISU!
On June 12 2011 14:11 Lightwip wrote: One of Bisu's greatest strengths that few people on here seem to note is his ability to destroy drops with little more than spawn units.
agreed. cleaned up the doom drop in his main, god knows how and still pushed into action's natural with some great storms and reaver placement. How bisu does it i do not know
On June 12 2011 14:11 VGhost wrote: I think Bisu wasn't expecting the gg quite there. Certainly I think that was premature, Action should have had better econ despite storms, more bases, only tech he lost was spire, etc.
And his nat. Bisu was going to win anyway, Action could just do some defense but his drop on Bisu's main was a bit useless IMO.
it was definitely a snipe build that studied bisu's play very well on that map. if bisu opened sair/dt instead of his usual sair reaver, action was dead right away
On June 12 2011 14:20 Zona wrote: bisu's sair/reaver is "usual" now? he's only just started to use it
iirc third game in a row where he's opened sair reaver. but you're right. up until now bisu has been opening with a forge expand core fast legs zeal pressure build
On June 12 2011 14:11 VGhost wrote: I think Bisu wasn't expecting the gg quite there. Certainly I think that was premature, Action should have had better econ despite storms, more bases, only tech he lost was spire, etc.
and how would you propose to fence off that army marching into the main?
Stats with a goon zealot force at Soo's nat Soo gets a sair with some scourge Core is spinning, as is the forge 4, maybe 5 gates from Stats Soo with some nice surrounds on goons with his lings Stats taking out I think 4 or 5 OL's thus far as I've been watching Queens nest is complete, hive is morphing
Another sair goes down, 5? left 2 more OL's go down A sair gets killed by a spore colony +1 for toss weapons Goons focusing down a hatchery at the nat Lings coming in from both sides, but Soo decides to pull them back Soo loses the hatchery
Lings finihs off the zealots, but Stats is microing well with his goons Stats loses 4 sairs to scourge and spores Tons of OL's dying though Soo remorphing the hatchry he lost in his main Archives is complete for Stats, as is robo, shuttle lifts 2 goons above the nat,
Shuttle ALMOST gets picked off by scourge Lings chasing back goons, but 4 DT's loaded into a shuttle Stats losing another sair geez All 4 DT's are in the main, spore goes down, Sairs go down, 3 sairs left Sairs trying to kill fof the OL's Only one DT left OL just pop +1 armor complete for toss Drop managed to kill a little
Stats with an expo at his inner expo 7 gateways for stats I believe Stats trying to get an expo at 2 oclock Tongs of lings outside the sim city, gets repelled by speedlots Mass lings from soo Defiler mound up
Tons of lings trying to atke out the inner expo Archon goes down HT do no have storm, but zealots reinforce Soo what are you doing, make THERE we go Hydras Robotics support warping in
Shield battery at the inner expo Stats losing what little sairs he has left, one left I think Stats getting his inner expo attacked by cracklings Playyguu on the zealot archon HT's Crackling drop into the main of Stats, one OL's worth
Tons of lurkers, nicley spread out Storms on the hydras coming to reinforce GG from Stats?! Oh man, must have lost his army YES SOO Now Hyuk must win one Reach scolding Stats, "YOU MUST BE MORE MANLY" Probe rush, or all in manlots
On June 12 2011 14:40 PBC wrote: wait.. soo won that? i dont get how but i am pleased.
very gg
Soo switched over to hydra lurker ling on 8 hatcheries I think, while Stats lost his entire ground force. Soo can take out the third any time he wants, however he wants.
On June 12 2011 14:40 Vasoline73 wrote: Man leave the game stats wtf are you doing. BG. Seriously such an unclutch moment to go from a possible 2-2 to a 3-1
commentators said stats probably expected a ultra switch, hence the lots of lots, reavers and archons. but soo went lurkers, thus his unit combination wasnt very good (against lurkers, more dragoons and HTs are better)
Stats was looking okay until that attack. That has to be considered a major decision blunder. There was no way that was a good idea.
He was looking terrible either way. Getting his third delayed forever like that, half-assed harass that fails and then he just gives up. Bad unit composition as well. Terrible play. Not the Stats I know. ((
On June 12 2011 14:40 PBC wrote: wait.. soo won that? i dont get how but i am pleased.
very gg
Soo switched over to hydra lurker ling on 8 hatcheries I think, while Stats lost his entire ground force. Soo can take out the third any time he wants, however he wants.
Lurkers were only for defense, hydras were barely there till the very end. I think pure ling-defiler would have won that with the econ difference (though Stats suiciding into the lurker field helped I guess).
I think his thought process went something like this.
Ooh, my one dragoon can shoot at his hatchery! So I'm going to build mass dragoons for five minutes just to snipe that hatchery while he builds all zerglings.
Hmm... my dragoons aren't working. So I'll get mass zealots instead. Also, I'll keep trading them against zerglings to keep both our armies small -- much better than teching to splash-dealing units.
I should be taking two bases now. Guess I'll take just one, the more vulnerable one, and not secure it properly.
Stats was looking okay until that attack. That has to be considered a major decision blunder. There was no way that was a good idea.
lol he had already lost he got a rediculously late third and it was a very exposed place
He had a good army against lings though. He could've held on and gotten a fourth.
Moving up a ramp against a dozen spread lurkers is really dumb.
that map made it kinda difficult to defend both 3rd and 4th with such army size, let alone potential doom drop into main ... i think stats made a correct decision to push and end the game right there, but his execution was just plain awful ...
Stats was looking okay until that attack. That has to be considered a major decision blunder. There was no way that was a good idea.
He was looking terrible either way. Getting his third delayed forever like that, half-assed harass that fails and then he just gives up. Bad unit composition as well. Terrible play. Not the Stats I know. ((
On June 12 2011 14:50 mnesthes wrote: Flash out. vs P
Best is a pretty mediocre P.
So is Stats? Pretty big mouths here from you two guys.. KT is about to get aborted big time again.. doesn't even matter who wins here, Fantasy rolling your last guy anyway..
From that shot of Flash in the intro, I wonder if part of the reason his wrist is messed up is the way he sits - it looks like he's not holding/supporting his arm properly for keyboarding (from the shoulder: self-support rather than relying on the desk. Compare BeSt's posture) and during a game he's going to be moving (scraping) his wrist back and forth on the edge of the desk at 300 APM, ugh.
Or possibly I've got things backwards and he's doing things awkwardly because he's hurt.
Flash going to scout out Best first Flash has his nat on the way One probe on gas for Best, and he starts his nexus warp 2nd gateway on the way Factory just starting
Seige mode is complete Pushes the goons back Best expoing to 3 oclock, has a 3rd gate and obs coming aswell Flash going to scout the 3 oclock expo CC in base for Flash Citadel for Best
Armory building Vultures try to run by the mass of goons, one gets killed and the rest pull back Flash scans to kill off the observer? I think so 3rd fact and ebay are constructing Stargate, archives and 4th gate getting warped in
What excites me the most about this isn't that it is Best vs Flash, but that SO many people are actually watching, which means a bunch of sc2 only people must have come over to check it out (not having any sc2 stuff going on helps).
best adding forge, his 5th and 6th gates vultures mine the area west of 3, observer out to help the goons clear it though but the goons hold position ah now they move
2 more factories 5 are complete for Flash Flash has his CC landed at the mineral only Best is starting wtih the gateways! Stargate flashing I didn't see arbiter tech but I bet its there
On June 12 2011 15:01 On_Slaught wrote: What excites me the most about this isn't that it is Best vs Flash, but that SO many people are actually watching, which means a bunch of sc2 only people must have come over to check it out (not having any sc2 stuff going on helps).
Not really, we had more viewers even before SC2 was here(PL match during the weekend, that is).
Best has 6? 7? gateways total I think Expo to 5 nat and 5 Flash has his starport building 2 more gateways Flash landing CC at 12 oclock 2 more factories, 7
On June 12 2011 15:02 Vasoline73 wrote: Flash always plays so passively in PL v Best... minus that Fortress game which was asking for dropship play given the positions
If I was Flash I would want to prove I can outmacro Best. Outmultitasking him isn't exactly special.
On June 12 2011 15:01 On_Slaught wrote: What excites me the most about this isn't that it is Best vs Flash, but that SO many people are actually watching, which means a bunch of sc2 only people must have come over to check it out (not having any sc2 stuff going on helps).
Not really, we had more viewers even before SC2 was here(PL match during the weekend, that is).
Tbh i've completely forgotten how many viewers we used to get during PL for the last few years. All I can see now is "if it isn't 10k+ it is failing" from the SC2 mentality. Shame on me
6 more gateways at 5 oclock getting warped in 16? Vultures spot the arbiter Soo many gateways at 5 Tons of vultures running in 12 in total at the 5 oclock? I think not too to sure Arbiter going for a recall? Recall recall recall Nope Vultures getting into 5, taking out tons of probes +1 weapons for both players is out Vessel tech complete
Vultures just destroying the probes over and over Flash expanding to 7 oclock Arbiter still hanging by 9 oclock, 2 more are out Probe is going to spot 7 oclock Scvs maynarding in the middle of the Toss army
On June 12 2011 15:01 On_Slaught wrote: What excites me the most about this isn't that it is Best vs Flash, but that SO many people are actually watching, which means a bunch of sc2 only people must have come over to check it out (not having any sc2 stuff going on helps).
Not really, we had more viewers even before SC2 was here(PL match during the weekend, that is).
Tbh i've completely forgotten how many viewers we used to get during PL for the last few years. All I can see now is "if it isn't 10k+ it is failing" from the SC2 mentality. Shame on me
Best with cannons and gateways at 7 oclock force Flash to lift So many tanks and goons 1-2 for Mech STASIS on tons of tanks A vessel too Storms on the tankline IDLE GOONS 1-0-2 for toss Idle goons cost Best that. I'm no pro but as a E toss player
Storm on the tanks, 2-3 for Flash Flash building a CC at 9 oclock Tanks pressing down into 5 oclock Vessel goes down DT at 9 oclock Tanks try to take down the wall at 3 oclock, arbiter adn a few goons take it out Flash forced to use scan after scan Nexus getting focused at 7, by 2 vultures and a tank dropped, Fresh troops kill them off Flash lands at the 7 oclock mineral only Stasis on a vessel and a couple tanks Mines getting ran in everywhere!
On June 12 2011 15:13 lyAsakura wrote: I don't understand why even though Best has plenty of time to stasis better, he's still stasising the front tanks.
because making gateways/macroing out of them is more fun?
best actually loses a ton of units in that attack and has to back off rushing tanks/mines not a great idea but best's next round of units already on their way
Ohh man Final push right here Nothing is producing GEE GEE FROM FLASH 2/2 LB <3 Ohh and whomever called Best some mediocre protoss, I don't like him, but hes not mediocre (I think) o.o
Going to go ahead and blame KT coaching for continuing to be incompetent. "OK Stats, you're going to play super-aggressive on probably the easiest map in the pool for Zerg to turtle on, and Flash, you're going to let Best take 5 bases before pushing out."
On June 12 2011 15:15 Crunchums wrote: i hope flash can learn from this, lol
Lesson: Don't let BeSt get to four bases unharrassed.
to be honest Flash did a really good job giving them probertos @ Best 4th and 5th nightmare ... but the moment Flash stopped harassing and went back to his macro mode, Best made use of it and went super macro mode ...
Props to Flash trying to beat Best at his best game anyway, still MSL champion so that one lose won't be much for him. Doesn't look like KT can get #1 lol, probably not even #2
On June 12 2011 15:15 Crunchums wrote: i hope flash can learn from this, lol
Lesson: Don't let BeSt get to four bases unharrassed.
to be honest Flash did a really good job giving them probertos @ Best 4th and 5th nightmare ... but the moment Flash stopped harassing and went back to his macro mode, Best made use of it and went super macro mode ...
that's the thing - I don't think best cared - best was willing to trade those vultures for his probes his only response to the repeated raids was to add more cannons
On June 12 2011 15:15 Crunchums wrote: i hope flash can learn from this, lol
Lesson: Don't let BeSt get to four bases unharrassed.
to be honest Flash did a really good job giving them probertos @ Best 4th and 5th nightmare ... but the moment Flash stopped harassing and went back to his macro mode, Best made use of it and went super macro mode ...
y so best made for following 5 min only expo, probe and gateways?
I don't blame Flash for this game. He has been busy with the MSL for the last week or so. He'll probably get some rest and come back stronger as usual. Gratz to SKT for the win.
On June 12 2011 15:19 gngfn wrote: Going to go ahead and blame KT coaching for continuing to be incompetent. "OK Stats, you're going to play super-aggressive on probably the easiest map in the pool for Zerg to turtle on, and Flash, you're going to let Best take 5 bases before pushing out."
Actually, Stats's strategy only works against turtle-play Zergs, its just that he didn't execute it very well lol. And Flash was looking REALLY good until his push got wiped out without doing any damage at all, which led to a very easily broken tank-line at the fifth
On June 12 2011 15:22 disciple wrote: nothing surprising about the results. KT chobos. I'm not expecting them to show up in Shanghai but if they do it will be same story.
CJ is looking really scary, i'm pretty sure SKT would take it over KT if they met,
but CJ man
even though in the important matches they choke pretty hard, i see them beating SuperiorKT
On June 12 2011 15:22 disciple wrote: nothing surprising about the results. KT chobos. I'm not expecting them to show up in Shanghai but if they do it will be same story.
CJ is looking really scary, i'm pretty sure SKT would take it over KT if they met,
but CJ man
even though in the important matches they choke pretty hard, i see them beating SuperiorKT
Don't worry, I will make the thread. SKT cant possibly lose
On June 12 2011 15:22 disciple wrote: nothing surprising about the results. KT chobos. I'm not expecting them to show up in Shanghai but if they do it will be same story.
CJ is looking really scary, i'm pretty sure SKT would take it over KT if they met,
but CJ man
even though in the important matches they choke pretty hard, i see them beating SuperiorKT
I too am worried about CJ atm, they're looking pretty strong and I feel they're more of a threat than KT But no worries, we'll be prepared I also love the SuperiorKT haha
On June 12 2011 15:22 disciple wrote: nothing surprising about the results. KT chobos. I'm not expecting them to show up in Shanghai but if they do it will be same story.
CJ is looking really scary, i'm pretty sure SKT would take it over KT if they met,
but CJ man
even though in the important matches they choke pretty hard, i see them beating SuperiorKT
Don't worry, I will make the thread. SKT cant possibly lose
On June 12 2011 15:19 gngfn wrote: Going to go ahead and blame KT coaching for continuing to be incompetent. "OK Stats, you're going to play super-aggressive on probably the easiest map in the pool for Zerg to turtle on, and Flash, you're going to let Best take 5 bases before pushing out."
Actually, Stats's strategy only works against turtle-play Zergs, its just that he didn't execute it very well lol. And Flash was looking REALLY good until his push got wiped out without doing any damage at all, which led to a very easily broken tank-line at the fifth
That's like saying "Flash was looking really good until his 2fac failed to do any damage and he lost." Flash didn't look good in any part of the game that was contentious. He staked the game on being able to roll over everything with his 200/200 army, failed miserably at it, then autolost because Best had infinite units. That game wasn't even close. In any case, regardless of how "good" he looked until he lost, you are never going to convince me that it's a good idea for someone who hasn't practiced for TvP in a while to engage Best in a macro game on Circuit Breaker.
On June 12 2011 15:24 shinjin wrote: im starting to really hate how often best beats flash : / he had like 5 bases in 11 min wat rofl
The losses itself don't really bother me that much. What makes them annoying is that Flash could crush BeSt anytime he desires but refuses to play aggressively out of pride.
I don't know what it is about BeSt that makes him do it though.. he certainly doesn't seem to behave like that when it comes to other one trick ponies.
On June 12 2011 15:22 disciple wrote: nothing surprising about the results. KT chobos. I'm not expecting them to show up in Shanghai but if they do it will be same story.
CJ is looking really scary, i'm pretty sure SKT would take it over KT if they met,
but CJ man
even though in the important matches they choke pretty hard, i see them beating SuperiorKT
Don't worry, I will make the thread. SKT cant possibly lose
lol, I hate when you say that. I'll be in Shanghai, so if SKT wins, I'll make a shoutout "Thanks disciple for making the OP" :D
Really nice OP disciple and crew. Thanks to everyone who streamed.
TBH, I don't think the vulture harass did much of anything to Best, it barely did any damage. I think if you count all the cannons and the few probes Best lost, you could maybe muster up enough reason to send like 6-8 vultures, but Flash sac'd quiet a few vultures to do close to no damage.
I think Flash really started to fall apart after his push got widdled away slowly. Flash was expanding to risky locations without proper protection, and just seemed to have lost focus (you can really tell when you see two elevated command centers high fiving each other). I can't really blame Flash for getting obliterated in a macro game, as he just finished playing the MSL finals.
On June 12 2011 15:22 Hellwitch wrote: I don't blame Flash for this game. He has been busy with the MSL for the last week or so. He'll probably get some rest and come back stronger as usual. Gratz to SKT for the win.
The thing is, Flash could have done so many different builds rather than letting Best play the way he likes to, yet he chose to attempt the hardest route for him to victory.
I think Flash lost at least twice as many vultures as he got probes with his harass. It really didn't look effective. I think Best just didn't want to build a pylon wall so Flash would keep throwing ineffective harass his way.
On June 12 2011 15:22 cascades wrote: Flash Quote: My teammates are practicing like crazy right now; they didn’t even come to cheer for me.
Flash paying back his teammates for the slight.
Flash: Even though my MSL finals is less than 24 hours before pr-- rest of KT: Oh snap, you made another finals? Damn. Well we got Proleague to practice for. Come join us in practice ASAP after you're done pwning what's-his-face.
I can't help but like Best - he's got this macro club, and he just bludgeons people to death with it. Best's play is anything but refined - but *it still works anyway*
it makes me envious to watch a P break a mega tank ball then stream infinite units for the win
Stats on the other hand is making me lose faith. The execution needed to be alot better.
On June 12 2011 15:19 gngfn wrote: Going to go ahead and blame KT coaching for continuing to be incompetent. "OK Stats, you're going to play super-aggressive on probably the easiest map in the pool for Zerg to turtle on, and Flash, you're going to let Best take 5 bases before pushing out."
Actually, Stats's strategy only works against turtle-play Zergs, its just that he didn't execute it very well lol. And Flash was looking REALLY good until his push got wiped out without doing any damage at all, which led to a very easily broken tank-line at the fifth
That's like saying "Flash was looking really good until his 2fac failed to do any damage and he lost." Flash didn't look good in any part of the game that was contentious. He staked the game on being able to roll over everything with his 200/200 army, failed miserably at it, then autolost because Best had infinite units. That game wasn't even close. In any case, regardless of how "good" he looked until he lost, you are never going to convince me that it's a good idea for someone who hasn't practiced for TvP in a while to engage Best in a macro game on Circuit Breaker.
When Best engaged Flash's army in front of the bridges and traded almost all of his army for a pretty small amount of Tanks/Vulture, I'd say Best was in trouble and the situation was good for Flash, until Best was able to break the push later through a combination of patience and luck from Flash's errors. To say the game wasn't even close is a serious judgment error..
also Flash wanted a higher tank count for his push, which is why he found it acceptable to simply throw away vultures without much benefit. Makes sense, considering how having too many vultures in your push is kind of a bad thing anyways, so might as well use them to stall the macro machine in anyway possible while making room for more tanks.
On June 12 2011 15:34 Lightwip wrote: I think Flash lost at least twice as many vultures as he got probes with his harass. It really didn't look effective. I think Best just didn't want to build a pylon wall so Flash would keep throwing ineffective harass his way.
while he lost vultures, best had to throw up cannons, and he threw up quite a number and he had to rebuild his probes so that's a lot of money. But yeah, his vulture harass didn't seem to phase Best or his rhythm though.
On June 12 2011 15:37 scrubtastic wrote: I can't help but like Best - he's got this macro club, and he just bludgeons people to death with it. Best's play is anything but refined - but *it still works anyway*
While not always refined, there are a lot of times where he runs his army into a deep deep tank line, his zealots get very far in and they surround all the tanks, it looks really elegant (if you can even say that about zealots fighting tanks haha). There's certainly some finese to his play.
On June 12 2011 15:38 disciple wrote: too bad we are denied from the latest updates on the wrist situation thou
Looks like nothing will stop you from making this annoying joke though
Everyone else moved on, it wasn't witty or funny in the first place, you keep reviving it yourself like someone who makes a mediocre joke, gets a couple chuckles and then tells it 10 days in a row after that while laughing like crazy to himself each time
On June 12 2011 15:38 disciple wrote: too bad we are denied from the latest updates on the wrist situation thou
Looks like nothing will stop you from making this annoying joke though
Everyone else moved on, it wasn't witty or funny in the first place, you keep reviving it yourself like someone who makes a mediocre joke, gets a couple chuckles and then tells it 10 days in a row after that while laughing like crazy to himself each time
perhaps Im not making it to amuse anyone, its quite the opposite tbh
Flash just likes being stubborn knowing that he keeps losing macro games against best even though all he needs to do is just put on some pressure and see best flop.
Didn't you have an estro tag yesterday? You swinger you
Also, yay Best
It's not possible to switch from estro to sparkyz tags. moopie has been using sparkyz for a while and can't switch or he will never be able to get the sparkyz tag again since it no longer exists.
On June 12 2011 15:24 shinjin wrote: im starting to really hate how often best beats flash : / he had like 5 bases in 11 min wat rofl
The losses itself don't really bother me that much. What makes them annoying is that Flash could crush BeSt anytime he desires but refuses to play aggressively out of pride.
I don't know what it is about BeSt that makes him do it though.. he certainly doesn't seem to behave like that when it comes to other one trick ponies.
I think people are overreacting - Flash always plays this style when he hasn't had much time to prepare for a possible TvP. His default strategy is still to be very macro heavy and that happens to play into Best's hands. Flash only plays timing pushes when he has had time to prepare a lot presumably because he's big on understanding the possible variations on the timing or something. He'll have something prepared next time for best like he did in msl and on fortress, this was just the worst possible timing for him and skt did a great job getting the matchup they wanted.
Didn't you have an estro tag yesterday? You swinger you
Also, yay Best
It's not possible to switch from estro to sparkyz tags. moopie has been using sparkyz for a while and can't switch or he will never be able to get the sparkyz tag again since it no longer exists.
It might be the forum playing tricks then? I don't know because sometimes I notcie him switching between the two tags as well. I don't know how but it happens. I thought it was just me as well seeing this haha
On June 12 2011 15:38 disciple wrote: too bad we are denied from the latest updates on the wrist situation thou
Looks like nothing will stop you from making this annoying joke though
Everyone else moved on, it wasn't witty or funny in the first place, you keep reviving it yourself like someone who makes a mediocre joke, gets a couple chuckles and then tells it 10 days in a row after that while laughing like crazy to himself each time
perhaps Im not making it to amuse anyone, its quite the opposite tbh
It's like someone going into every skt thread and talking about how bisu blows at individual leagues unprompted - really obnoxious. Keep doing it to make your point if that makes you happy, but you could convey your overall point in a much less douchey way. Ironically I'm a flash fan and think the wrist thing has been way overblown so I actually agree with you overall, yet it's impossible to ignore the way you go about doing it and it's essentially trolling at this point as you know what response you're trying to elicit and it's not a productive one.
Didn't you have an estro tag yesterday? You swinger you
Also, yay Best
It's not possible to switch from estro to sparkyz tags. moopie has been using sparkyz for a while and can't switch or he will never be able to get the sparkyz tag again since it no longer exists.
It might be the forum playing tricks then? I don't know because sometimes I notcie him switching between the two tags as well. I don't know how but it happens. I thought it was just me as well seeing this haha
Didn't you have an estro tag yesterday? You swinger you
Also, yay Best
It's not possible to switch from estro to sparkyz tags. moopie has been using sparkyz for a while and can't switch or he will never be able to get the sparkyz tag again since it no longer exists.
It might be the forum playing tricks then? I don't know because sometimes I notcie him switching between the two tags as well. I don't know how but it happens. I thought it was just me as well seeing this haha
Didn't you have an estro tag yesterday? You swinger you
Also, yay Best
It's not possible to switch from estro to sparkyz tags. moopie has been using sparkyz for a while and can't switch or he will never be able to get the sparkyz tag again since it no longer exists.
It might be the forum playing tricks then? I don't know because sometimes I notcie him switching between the two tags as well. I don't know how but it happens. I thought it was just me as well seeing this haha
On June 12 2011 15:34 Lightwip wrote: I think Flash lost at least twice as many vultures as he got probes with his harass. It really didn't look effective. I think Best just didn't want to build a pylon wall so Flash would keep throwing ineffective harass his way.
while he lost vultures, best had to throw up cannons, and he threw up quite a number and he had to rebuild his probes so that's a lot of money. But yeah, his vulture harass didn't seem to phase Best or his rhythm though.
On June 12 2011 15:37 scrubtastic wrote: I can't help but like Best - he's got this macro club, and he just bludgeons people to death with it. Best's play is anything but refined - but *it still works anyway*
While not always refined, there are a lot of times where he runs his army into a deep deep tank line, his zealots get very far in and they surround all the tanks, it looks really elegant (if you can even say that about zealots fighting tanks haha). There's certainly some finese to his play.
Yeah that's true - Best seems to be really good at breaking a terran tank ball and it's definitely not just 1a2a etc.
I guess I just wish he'd micro his goons more or focus on better stases but I suppose that's the price you have to pay for being the 30 gate macro toss.
Btw, does anyone know who this fellow TLer who showed up at the match today is? If you're lurking around here, please post a comment! We saw you live on stream!
On June 12 2011 16:30 Spica wrote: Btw, does anyone know who this fellow TLer who showed up at the match today is? If you're lurking around here, please post a comment! We saw you live on stream!
Also, your sign was hilarious, LMFAO.
Is that Thorin maybe? I know he said he was going to Korea.
Good job by SKT - sniping Action and soO plays good but wtf is up with s2 loosing all the time and getting games instead of Paralyze or some new Terrans or heck Fantasy!!!!!!!! BeSt is not slumping anymore and by.Sun looks getting better with his finishing attack timings (that was non-existing when this season started). Bisu has best PvZ, BeSt has PvT and by.Sun said he wants best PvP to complete SKT's Protoss line Wanna see Hyuk instead of s2 to snipe some toss or Zerg or even autoloss to Terran - doesn't matter cuz Hyuk is much better than s2.
On June 12 2011 16:30 Spica wrote: Btw, does anyone know who this fellow TLer who showed up at the match today is? If you're lurking around here, please post a comment! We saw you live on stream!
Also, your sign was hilarious, LMFAO.
Is that Thorin maybe? I know he said he was going to Korea.
nice score skt. i started to see no difference between flash and fantasy anymore, winning an individual league and still failing at pl, i guess kt shouldnt have sent flash like skt did with fantasy.
oh well, bisu delivered another great game atleast!
All the complaining about Flash playing into Best's hand is wrong, that strategy is also the best for Flash too. In fact it's his ultimate overpowered strategy that make his TvP imba. Best just played his best trick and Flash did the same, there's no reason to play lesser strategies when your opponent uses his best strategy.
On June 12 2011 19:42 kamikami wrote: All the complaining about Flash playing into Best's hand is wrong, that strategy is also the best for Flash too. In fact it's his ultimate overpowered strategy that make his TvP imba. Best just played his best trick and Flash did the same, there's no reason to play lesser strategies when your opponent uses his best strategy.
No, you are wrong. Flash can masterfully execute many different styles and they are all equally effective, given the right circumstances. BeSt however is only good at one style of PvT and if he is denied to play that style he usually loses - at least against a player of Flash's caliber.
Flash wanted to show that he can beat BeSt at his own game, and not only that, but without any real practice or preparation too and after an exhausting MSL Finals not even 24hours before. Imho that was just a tad bit too much. It might have worked if BeSt had had a bad day, but alas he brought his A-game.
On June 12 2011 19:42 kamikami wrote: All the complaining about Flash playing into Best's hand is wrong, that strategy is also the best for Flash too. In fact it's his ultimate overpowered strategy that make his TvP imba. Best just played his best trick and Flash did the same, there's no reason to play lesser strategies when your opponent uses his best strategy.
No, you are wrong. Flash can masterfully execute many different styles and they are all equally effective, given the right circumstances. BeSt however is only good at one style of PvT and if he is denied to play that style he usually loses - at least against a player of Flash's caliber.
Flash wanted to show that he can beat BeSt at his own game, and not only that, but without any real practice or preparation too and after an exhausting MSL Finals not even 24hours before. Imho that was just a tad bit too much. It might have worked if BeSt had had a bad day, but alas he brought his A-game.
Without preparation he must play the style he is best at, and that style is his "by default" style. Flash was playing his own game too, any other Protoss will just get crushed by that overpowered push. He has no other choice because any other style will require prepration, especially those "timing push" or "drop" strategies. So to sum it up Flash was playing his own game and Best did the same. I am right yeah i'm not wrong hahaha.
Edit : And also you are wrong when you said that Best is only good at one PvT style, it's because you didn't watch enough of his games. He has 2 other ways of playing PvT which he is very good at : hidden templar tech to DT rush and a very agressive reaver opening that denies the Terran's third. Of course he has no other tricks but those are enough to deal with Terran.
Why are teams still throwing Z's on Bisu? Yea, every one is motivated to break his dominance, but why not let him his strength and use his weaknesses? Throwing PvP gamers or TvP, but stop wasting Zergs. Without a doubt, it was a really intresting match anyway.
And honestly, what the hell Flash vs Best, first of all everyone knows this matchup will come and second of all everyone knows what Best is going to do, expand like hell and build 50 Gateways. While yourself are getting economy probs, he reinforces so quickly, that your not even able to snipe his force that quickly.
Nevertheless, good game by SKT1, and a wasted chance for KT to beat SKT1.
In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
For everyone who missed the action vs Bisu and think KTY had a field day, it was absolutely not the case. Bisu had to work really really hard for that one
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
carrier switch pwns turtle terran
And how is the P supposed to hold against the inevitable 200/200 3/3 upgraded push with constant reinforcement (because T has enough time to build many facs) while he is switching to Carrier (and thus doesn't have the 200/200 army).
Even after switching to carriers, how to counter infinite numbers of turret with goliaths support (all the gols are defending since T want to force a rematch ?)
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
carrier switch pwns turtle terran
And how is the P supposed to hold against the inevitable 200/200 3/3 upgraded push with constant reinforcement (because T has enough time to build many facs) while he is switching to Carrier (and thus doesn't have the 200/200 army).
Even after switching to carriers, how to counter infinite numbers of turret with goliaths support (all the gols are defending since T want to force a rematch ?)
You take the rest of expansions and build a ton of gateway units. The amount of resources you will have will probably allow you to keep send wave after wave reinforcing and recalling on his base until he runs out of income.
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
one hallucinated arbiter to recall a part of the army with another arbiter to double recall and then triple and more, you can transport your whole army into the main base or one base of Terran, there is no way Terran can cover all his 4 bases against hallucinated arbiter, turret and gols won't work, only Vessels but you can't cover all 4 bases , it's too much.
Bisu reminds me Flash in the year of 2009 (except better) with huge success in Team league and failing in Indies. I have hope that he will bounce back and win an OSL sometime soon.
On June 12 2011 19:42 kamikami wrote: All the complaining about Flash playing into Best's hand is wrong, that strategy is also the best for Flash too. In fact it's his ultimate overpowered strategy that make his TvP imba. Best just played his best trick and Flash did the same, there's no reason to play lesser strategies when your opponent uses his best strategy.
No, you are wrong. Flash can masterfully execute many different styles and they are all equally effective, given the right circumstances. BeSt however is only good at one style of PvT and if he is denied to play that style he usually loses - at least against a player of Flash's caliber.
Flash wanted to show that he can beat BeSt at his own game, and not only that, but without any real practice or preparation too and after an exhausting MSL Finals not even 24hours before. Imho that was just a tad bit too much. It might have worked if BeSt had had a bad day, but alas he brought his A-game.
Without preparation he must play the style he is best at, and that style is his "by default" style. Flash was playing his own game too, any other Protoss will just get crushed by that overpowered push. He has no other choice because any other style will require prepration, especially those "timing push" or "drop" strategies. So to sum it up Flash was playing his own game and Best did the same. I am right yeah i'm not wrong hahaha.
Edit : And also you are wrong when you said that Best is only good at one PvT style, it's because you didn't watch enough of his games. He has 2 other ways of playing PvT which he is very good at : hidden templar tech to DT rush and a very agressive reaver opening that denies the Terran's third. Of course he has no other tricks but those are enough to deal with Terran.
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
This shows how much you know about broodwar strategy. I won't even bother arguing with you anymore. Have fun playing 3-4 base turtle terran vs 9 base protoss =)
Oh no! The long term tactic employed by Bisu and Best - getting eliminated from individual leagues early on, so Flash won't see the need to practice against you - has worked another day.
Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
So sick play from Best!!!! Game of the weekend for sure. Where other Protosses hesitate, Best is confident with letting Flash turtle while he macros all over the place. Well played Best!
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
Lol, 9 base protoss is scary. Assuming each base has an average of 8 mineral patches, multiply that by 9, and then 1500 for each mineral patch. Thats around 10k of minerals alone....lool. xD Protoss can rape u with scouts from 10k of minerals. =.=
Edit: More than 10k of minerals per base. Times 9. lol
I agree with the sentiment that when Flash doesnt have time to prepare for a match (like today), he tends to default to 3-4 base 200/200 (2/1 or 3/3) push.
I dont think he was stubborn with his gameplan, more like that is the style that fairs best w/o preparation for him, imo.
On June 12 2011 21:06 disciple wrote: For everyone who missed the action vs Bisu and think KTY had a field day, it was absolutely not the case. Bisu had to work really really hard for that one
Ya. I was surprised that actually Action gave Bisu so much trouble. Even Bisu was surprised lol
On June 12 2011 20:57 kamikami wrote: In fact i wonder what happens if in a TvP, the Terran turtles in 3-4 base and NEVER ever pushes out, only care about defending (knowing that he is in a disadvantage for example), in that case the P cannot attack him too (even with 9 base this is futile because T can make 3 times an 200/200 army on 3 base, and 4 times on 4 bases).
So the Terran can force a rematch because no one can win ? This can be a valide strategy imo.
Lol, 9 base protoss is scary. Assuming each base has an average of 8 mineral patches, multiply that by 9, and then 1500 for each mineral patch. Thats around 10k of minerals alone....lool. xD Protoss can rape u with scouts from 10k of minerals. =.=
Edit: More than 10k of minerals per base. Times 9. lol
On June 12 2011 21:06 disciple wrote: For everyone who missed the action vs Bisu and think KTY had a field day, it was absolutely not the case. Bisu had to work really really hard for that one
Ya. I was surprised that actually Action gave Bisu so much trouble. Even Bisu was surprised lol
I got the feeling Bisu underestimated action, and though he could just run over him even with sair-reaver. I think he was either he was just messing around, or trying to show he can beat zergs without a mid game zealot timing attack.
On June 12 2011 21:06 disciple wrote: For everyone who missed the action vs Bisu and think KTY had a field day, it was absolutely not the case. Bisu had to work really really hard for that one
Ya. I was surprised that actually Action gave Bisu so much trouble. Even Bisu was surprised lol
I got the feeling Bisu underestimated action, and though he could just run over him even with sair-reaver. I think he was either he was just messing around, or trying to show he can beat zergs without a mid game zealot timing attack.
Actually i personally think Bisu got comfortable w Sair Reaver on this map due to the (earlier) free 3rd, Action kinda just capitalised on this.
Action beat Bisu the last time they met (before today ), i dont think he ll be underestimating Action just yet.
i rewatched Bisu vs Action and it really wasn't that close.. sure Action managed to barely hold off Bisu's first midgame army attack, but Action's economy was pretty bad (pretty poor drone saturation throughout the game) whereas Bisu was at a very comfortable 3-4 base economy, which led to Bisu's army simply steamrolling Action in the end.
Bisu certainly didn't look close to losing because of his booming economy, but it didn't seem like a particularly easy game to play either. His bases were safe but Action kept deflecting the harass and sniping sairs pretty well save for that time when Bisu reaver-stormed his main.
Just rewatched as well.. Didnt feel at any point that Bisu was in real danger.. There was this time when lings met his HTs, but that was minor and only a few templars were traded for a fair number of lings anw.
Action on the other hand lost 5 drones to the 1st Reaver Harassed, a good amount of OVs all game (Bisu lost quite a number of Sairs too, but i feel that they more than pay for themselves with the constant scouting and OV-bursting), then there was that Reaver-Temp harass shortly before the big engagement as well..
Bisu still have the force that cleared out his main (from drop) + another production round.. Action already have trouble holding the force marching into his main, so i dont think he had a chance there, really.. Was exciting live though, nonetheless.
Hmm, I haven't seen too many of best's games, but what exactly is entailed by his "macro mode" anyway? I do see massive numbers of units materialize out of nowhere, but what exactly is best doing differently from other Ps that enables him to be such a macro monster?
On June 13 2011 06:22 Z3kk wrote: Hmm, I haven't seen too many of best's games, but what exactly is entailed by his "macro mode" anyway? I do see massive numbers of units materialize out of nowhere, but what exactly is best doing differently from other Ps that enables him to be such a macro monster?
Select gateways n press Z 1000 times faster?
I dont see how else one can macro (i dont play BW, and only a trivial amount of SC2 3v3, months ago.. so i might be wrong? :p)
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
Who are the good rookie/new Zergs and Terran?
The only ones that come to mind are KHAN's TurN and Reality - Reality may be the real deal but TurN seems like a Terran Kwanro. BarrackS has floated around for a while without much result. SSak is wildly unpredictable.
CJ probably has some random rookie Zerg who will roll off the production line in another couple years, but I can't think of any new Zergs who are making waves. Hydra's the closest and he's been playing 2-3 years now.
Protoss has Grape and maybe Brave (KHAN's got real potential for next season, actually, when the four newbies are better seasoned, especially if Jangbi really is getting his act together again). Horang2 is in Hydra's "generation" I think, and is continuing to improve. Sun/Rain/Weather is decent-to-good.
I don't know, it seems to me that in terms of newcomers Protoss is even-to-ahead right now. How the potential plays out I don't know yet, obviously.
BeSt is just very good at knowing how much he can expand and drop gateways before he has to worry about terran timing pushes and then he just floods units off gateways from multiple expos as the first big push hits him.
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
Who are the good rookie/new Zergs and Terran?
The only ones that come to mind are KHAN's TurN and Reality - Reality may be the real deal but TurN seems like a Terran Kwanro. BarrackS has floated around for a while without much result. SSak is wildly unpredictable.
CJ probably has some random rookie Zerg who will roll off the production line in another couple years, but I can't think of any new Zergs who are making waves. Hydra's the closest and he's been playing 2-3 years now.
Protoss has Grape and maybe Brave (KHAN's got real potential for next season, actually, when the four newbies are better seasoned, especially if Jangbi really is getting his act together again). Horang2 is in Hydra's "generation" I think, and is continuing to improve. Sun/Rain/Weather is decent-to-good.
I don't know, it seems to me that in terms of newcomers Protoss is even-to-ahead right now. How the potential plays out I don't know yet, obviously.
In term of potentials, I can see Protoss reign supreme (see what I did thar? lol) in the OSL. Zerg players really atm is Jaedong, Hydra and ZerO and.....no rookies. Terran.....Flash of course, then Sea, Light (they probably wont get far unfortunately), same with Leta. Terran have old stars but no young stars except for Reality. Protoss have HUGE pool of talents: Horang2, Movie, TaekBang, Grape, BravE and Stats.
On June 13 2011 06:22 Z3kk wrote: Hmm, I haven't seen too many of best's games, but what exactly is entailed by his "macro mode" anyway? I do see massive numbers of units materialize out of nowhere, but what exactly is best doing differently from other Ps that enables him to be such a macro monster?
Select gateways n press Z 1000 times faster?
I dont see how else one can macro (i dont play BW, and only a trivial amount of SC2 3v3, months ago.. so i might be wrong? :p)
You mean manually select each individual gateway and press Z after each select... no MBS in SC:BW.
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
Who are the good rookie/new Zergs and Terran?
The only ones that come to mind are KHAN's TurN and Reality - Reality may be the real deal but TurN seems like a Terran Kwanro. BarrackS has floated around for a while without much result. SSak is wildly unpredictable.
CJ probably has some random rookie Zerg who will roll off the production line in another couple years, but I can't think of any new Zergs who are making waves. Hydra's the closest and he's been playing 2-3 years now.
Protoss has Grape and maybe Brave (KHAN's got real potential for next season, actually, when the four newbies are better seasoned, especially if Jangbi really is getting his act together again). Horang2 is in Hydra's "generation" I think, and is continuing to improve. Sun/Rain/Weather is decent-to-good.
I don't know, it seems to me that in terms of newcomers Protoss is even-to-ahead right now. How the potential plays out I don't know yet, obviously.
In term of potentials, I can see Protoss reign supreme (see what I did thar? lol) in the OSL. Zerg players really atm is Jaedong, Hydra and ZerO and.....no rookies. Terran.....Flash of course, then Sea, Light (they probably wont get far unfortunately), same with Leta. Terran have old stars but no young stars except for Reality. Protoss have HUGE pool of talents: Horang2, Movie, TaekBang, Grape, BravE and Stats.
In the OSL, for Protoss, its now or never.
Flash is younger than all of those players except for Grape.
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
Who are the good rookie/new Zergs and Terran?
The only ones that come to mind are KHAN's TurN and Reality - Reality may be the real deal but TurN seems like a Terran Kwanro. BarrackS has floated around for a while without much result. SSak is wildly unpredictable.
CJ probably has some random rookie Zerg who will roll off the production line in another couple years, but I can't think of any new Zergs who are making waves. Hydra's the closest and he's been playing 2-3 years now.
Protoss has Grape and maybe Brave (KHAN's got real potential for next season, actually, when the four newbies are better seasoned, especially if Jangbi really is getting his act together again). Horang2 is in Hydra's "generation" I think, and is continuing to improve. Sun/Rain/Weather is decent-to-good.
I don't know, it seems to me that in terms of newcomers Protoss is even-to-ahead right now. How the potential plays out I don't know yet, obviously.
In term of potentials, I can see Protoss reign supreme (see what I did thar? lol) in the OSL. Zerg players really atm is Jaedong, Hydra and ZerO and.....no rookies. Terran.....Flash of course, then Sea, Light (they probably wont get far unfortunately), same with Leta. Terran have old stars but no young stars except for Reality. Protoss have HUGE pool of talents: Horang2, Movie, TaekBang, Grape, BravE and Stats.
In the OSL, for Protoss, its now or never.
Flash is younger than all of those players except for Grape.
On June 12 2011 15:24 shinjin wrote: im starting to really hate how often best beats flash : / he had like 5 bases in 11 min wat rofl
The losses itself don't really bother me that much. What makes them annoying is that Flash could crush BeSt anytime he desires but refuses to play aggressively out of pride.
I don't know what it is about BeSt that makes him do it though.. he certainly doesn't seem to behave like that when it comes to other one trick ponies.
I think people are overreacting - Flash always plays this style when he hasn't had much time to prepare for a possible TvP. His default strategy is still to be very macro heavy and that happens to play into Best's hands. Flash only plays timing pushes when he has had time to prepare a lot presumably because he's big on understanding the possible variations on the timing or something. He'll have something prepared next time for best like he did in msl and on fortress, this was just the worst possible timing for him and skt did a great job getting the matchup they wanted.
what flash is doing is a stupid strategy. he has done the same turtle style for several tvps now. and it isnt good. a typical 3 base timing push works much better
You guys are forgetting the BIGGEST WOOKI OF THE YEAR!: Sea.Wuk, P7GAB[KaL] from FOX. This guy so good, even Bisu has mentioned him in an interview (The door bell! interview). Also Last from STX has been having some decent games (who is also a terran).
On June 13 2011 06:22 Z3kk wrote: Hmm, I haven't seen too many of best's games, but what exactly is entailed by his "macro mode" anyway? I do see massive numbers of units materialize out of nowhere, but what exactly is best doing differently from other Ps that enables him to be such a macro monster?
Select gateways n press Z 1000 times faster?
I dont see how else one can macro (i dont play BW, and only a trivial amount of SC2 3v3, months ago.. so i might be wrong? :p)
Yeah this isn't SC2... you have to hand select each building and build a unit. Flash or BeSt macro does look like SC2 though, but that's a testament to how good they are.
On June 13 2011 06:22 Z3kk wrote: Hmm, I haven't seen too many of best's games, but what exactly is entailed by his "macro mode" anyway? I do see massive numbers of units materialize out of nowhere, but what exactly is best doing differently from other Ps that enables him to be such a macro monster?
Select gateways n press Z 1000 times faster?
I dont see how else one can macro (i dont play BW, and only a trivial amount of SC2 3v3, months ago.. so i might be wrong? :p)
Yeah this isn't SC2... you have to hand select each building and build a unit. Flash or BeSt macro does look like SC2 though, but that's a testament to how good they are.
No yea i am aware of that.. I post exclusively on the BW section of the site, and have watched my share of games, i think :p..
But every1 macro the same way rite? I mean select gateway (1 by 1, since i didnt say it clearly), and Z, or T, or whatever..
On June 13 2011 08:52 dRaW wrote: You guys are forgetting the BIGGEST WOOKI OF THE YEAR!: Sea.Wuk, P7GAB[KaL] from FOX. This guy so good, even Bisu has mentioned him in an interview (The door bell! interview). Also Last from STX has been having some decent games (who is also a terran).
I was so gonna bring up Wuk! Would easily be the best value 1 pointer in FPL right now.
And Last is absolutely destroying Dream League, would be good for STX if he could come through.
On June 13 2011 00:37 revy wrote: Flash needs to have a TvP BO5 come up. It always seems like Flash has 2 MUs which are nigh unbeatable (S++ class) and 1 MU which is merely S class. It always rotates around depending on what the last BO5's he has played.
gonna have to tell them tosses to stop losing in the RO16.
Even most of the good up and coming rookies/newcomers are either terran or zerg.
Who are the good rookie/new Zergs and Terran?
The only ones that come to mind are KHAN's TurN and Reality - Reality may be the real deal but TurN seems like a Terran Kwanro. BarrackS has floated around for a while without much result. SSak is wildly unpredictable.
CJ probably has some random rookie Zerg who will roll off the production line in another couple years, but I can't think of any new Zergs who are making waves. Hydra's the closest and he's been playing 2-3 years now.
Protoss has Grape and maybe Brave (KHAN's got real potential for next season, actually, when the four newbies are better seasoned, especially if Jangbi really is getting his act together again). Horang2 is in Hydra's "generation" I think, and is continuing to improve. Sun/Rain/Weather is decent-to-good.
I don't know, it seems to me that in terms of newcomers Protoss is even-to-ahead right now. How the potential plays out I don't know yet, obviously.
In term of potentials, I can see Protoss reign supreme (see what I did thar? lol) in the OSL. Zerg players really atm is Jaedong, Hydra and ZerO and.....no rookies. Terran.....Flash of course, then Sea, Light (they probably wont get far unfortunately), same with Leta. Terran have old stars but no young stars except for Reality. Protoss have HUGE pool of talents: Horang2, Movie, TaekBang, Grape, BravE and Stats.
In the OSL, for Protoss, its now or never.
I feel like KilleR for OZ has great potential as a JD understudy!
the best vs flash game was just amazing to see. I've never seen flash so overwhelmed by his opponent's macro before
action vs bisu was a good game as well. I thought bisu was going to lose after losing so many sairs in the beginning. I guess all the overlord kills paid off.
Everyone forgetting bogus? he is a really solid t right now and I can see him becoming a reliable ace for STX. Also hyvaa is owning up DL and has definitely potential. Also KHAN rookies are the best man, grape brave turn reality... SKT not so much (maybe rain/sun) KT not much either, maybe barracks (he shows promise) and roo can pick it up but they are still green so stats will probably be more reliable. FOX has p7gab or w/e and hes good, also wuk and mbc has check maybe? Don't see him becoming a solid z though. Stars have flying, whos really inconsistent and honsin who showd real promise back in 2010 but now isnt really fielded that often. also ace lol and ye, I think the future players who are the rookies of now have to pove themself to show how strong they are
At least FlaSh is young, but he has his wrist... I hope he recovers from that (Violet anybody?) and still owns the BW sene the next few years :D
EPT
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