[SWL] Winner League Finals KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 - P…

On April 10 2011 21:51 imperator-xy wrote:
are those games available on some chinese site? on youtube im not able to watch them because of copyright. but i MUST watch Bisu as i do love him...

On April 10 2011 10:29 ArvickHero wrote:

Gate-FE has been around for a while, you don't know what you are talking about lol. Had Bisu gone for the normal Range-Expand, Bisu would've been at a disadvantage against Flash's Rax-FE, wheras it would've been even if Flash went FD. Considering that the map is Aztec, Bisu probably correctly guessed that Flash would attempt to push every single advantage he could press to get his timing push out faster (even skipped turrets lol)

On April 10 2011 22:31 Kiante wrote:
In the same vein, flash was "gimmicky" with his rax expand, because it was open to being exploited how bisu did (or how stork did vs flash when he did a proxy 4 gate bust). Every build has its ups and downs, stop trying to villainise bisu for going gate-expo :S

On April 10 2011 22:25 ibreakurface wrote:
Bisu didn't rely on mechanics or micro, just a BO advantage.

On April 10 2011 22:31 Kiante wrote:
In the same vein, flash was "gimmicky" with his rax expand, because it was open to being exploited how bisu did (or how stork did vs flash when he did a proxy 4 gate bust). Every build has its ups and downs, stop trying to villainise bisu for going gate-expo :S

On April 10 2011 23:17 kuroshiroi wrote:

Some Flash fans believe that the only way Flash can lose is if the opponent cheeses or the map is imba etc., they can't accept that he can be outplayed or that he can make mistakes. They should really focus on his failings, not on Bisu's choices.

And besides, people should really do more early aggression against Flash, his macro is his strength and disrupting it early on is clearly the way to take him down. I think Jaedong was trying to do just that with his lurker runby on Benzene but it didn't work quite as well as Bisu's harass, mostly due to decision fails from Jaedong and excellent scans and micro from Flash. Incidentally, that was probably the best Flash game I've seen in months but I digress.

In this case, Flash did a risky eco build with a late scout, got successfully harassed, panicked and all-in'd when he really didn't need to. He should have gone turtleterran in his own territory and tried to secure the third base, max and then do stuff. He panicked because he knew he was behind and because he definitely considers the map to be imba. Maybe he was afraid of Carriers and wanted to end the game before they arrived, which is really dumb because lolBisuCarriers.

Flash is definitely showing some signs of weakness these days, all of which I believe are in his head. He panicked against Baby, he decided he had lost against Tyson due to the map and he panicked against Bisu. But then again, nobody can be expected to win 100% of the time, not even God. Maybe it's time Flash fans realise that.

On April 10 2011 22:25 ibreakurface wrote:


If you blindly do something hoping to get an advantage, and risk getting a disadvantage, it's gimmicky. Whether it's a 14cc or BBS. Bisu didn't rely on mechanics or micro, just a BO advantage.

On April 10 2011 23:08 okum wrote:
It was cheese. Of a very fine quality.

On April 10 2011 23:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Agree.

The only thing which can be said about Bisu's build, is that it's a one shot build. Won't ever work again. He used it in a very important game, and that's really SKT1 style (startegic builds well prepared for one precise game), so congratz to him.

Flash microed his marines absolutely amazingly too, which makes Bisu's performance even more impressive.

On April 10 2011 23:34 infinity2k9 wrote:


I cannot believe how one sided people manage to see this. Flash went for a BLIND Rax CC with no bunker in a series when they are 3-1 behind, instead of playing a safe FD. How is that not a risk exactly? Bisu was modest in the interview cause even against FD his build would have been still fine and go into a normal game, Flash was the one doing the risky eco build. And how did he not rely on micro when he took the scouted decision to continue aggressive zealot pressure?

And then there's people trying to stretch that Aztec is the worst TvP map ever somehow despite the fact Flash Rax CC's quite often and could have had the identical result elsewhere. Due to low ground mains getting up on the natural ridge for T when pushing is excellent, it definitely has it's upsides and if anything Flash got a favorable starting position to push from as opposed to straight down. Bisu going gate first on the top of the ramp is just a smart decision not some massive all-out risk like some are trying to suggest.

If Flash was seriously worried about the map as if it was Bloody Ridge why not 2fac then or something, is he not confident he can beat Bisu in a micro battle ala HBR again? The arguments here are like saying 'wow Outsider imba ZvT remove it!' after Flash gets crippled by early ling pressure due to 14CC and dies later to mutas.

And yes i agree with the person above that it was one of those typical games that often happens between Flash/Jaedong/Bisu where the eco advantage rolls into a win for certain. But Flash made the game losing decision in this case. 1gate Nex was not do or die.



No it just wasn't, simple as that. How you can think a gate then nex is cheese i have no idea. People don't have to allow Terran's to get the best eco build possible with no reaction.



Building a gate first at natural on a low ground main map is not one shot; And clearly not even a bad build regularly if Terrans are going to Rax CC in so many games. If it turns out to be FD just don't build more zealots and transition to normal play. How would he be 'miles' behind from having 1 zealot produced (cause the scout would see if it was worth continuing with the play) when the Nex is still up straight away.

On April 11 2011 00:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Streaming zealots in PvT isn't precisely the thing to do unless you really know what your opponent is doing.

Even building a couple of zealots, considering that Gate Nex is inferior economically to Rax FE would put him really far behind. Bisu said in an interview days ago he had a counter build. Flash has just been dumb to do exactly what he expected.

On April 11 2011 00:42 infinity2k9 wrote:
Here's what i see, unless i'm mistaken Bisu knows pretty quickly (at like 9:12) it's going to be Rax CC due to the Gas timing of Flash. The gateway had only just finished around then and a single zealot being produced, which isn't unreasonable to make a single one anyway in PvT, infact it may have been possible to even cancel the zealot very early and go nex or core. By the time the zealot pops he's well aware there's no Fac and it's worth producing a second one and going for it. If it was FD he could have stopped right there and gone for nex or whatever. So overall the 'loss' was a zealot which isn't always a bad thing anyway, or if he canceled literally no loss to minerals and just slight timing delay to progression of the standard build. Bisu was seemingly modest in interview about it because the disadvantage compared to a regular would have been very small if at all.

After that Flash didn't produce the usual bunker probably because of the placement would be weird and not helpful against goon follow up unless it was at the front. So there was no reason NOT to keep sending zealots. His build never forced him to do so though.

Past the early game though apart from the DT's, Bisu just played very smart and decisive, defended harass, sniped the vessel, went the smart path down the ramp. Just a good decision every step. I'm not sure Flash even needed to do the push he did when he went right past a gas base he could have tried to secure instead. The push wasn't even baring down on anything it was just wide and out in the open. You could blame the map but he didn't have to do that, he could have expo'd then moved along the top edge to where Bisu was expanding.

On April 11 2011 01:28 Nick_54 wrote:
If Bisu went 12 nex and Flash made a forward rax and was able to take out the nex with scvs and a bunker none of the KT fans would say it was cheese.

On April 11 2011 01:42 okum wrote:
Yes I would.