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Russian Federation3336 Posts
On April 10 2011 00:12 luckybeni2 wrote:
It was a rather boring finals in my opinion. I was kind of on the skt side but come on... 2 zvz to start off and s2 getting 3 kills, not exactly spectacular. And the Bisu-Flash game was far from good, too. I had hoped for a little more action and much better games. Anyway, looking forward to the start of next PL season and the TSL, of course.
wow.... what are you talking about man???? i can't comment on the s2 3 kill... but the s2 flash was intense for a while... and then Bisu vs Flash??? are you kidding me??? that was sooo intense!!!
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Russian Federation3336 Posts
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I forgot to mention Stats as well. Why the hell wouldn't he expect an all-in at this point? I don't see how you say it wasn't expected, s2 is probably an inferior player overall and he probably didn't practice ZvP heavily on the map. He's 2 wins up already, done his job, the exact sort of time for an all-in in a series. Even if it wasn't all-in why no scout. It looked like me playing PvZ it sucked.
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Russian Federation3336 Posts
On April 10 2011 03:04 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 02:55 ninini wrote:
Although I was rooting for SKT, and Bisu is my favorite player, I felt so sorry for Flash watching that game. I've never seen him so out of balance. Watching the VOD again, I think I see what you mean. Flash wasn't exactly giving us the game of his life.
I think flash had water/pocari cramps for almost draining that bottle in the beginning 
no.. flash played really good defense... but he started so down because of the early aggression which essentially crippled him the whole game  excellent on Bisu's part
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You're right about that, even with no scouting Stats should have thought an all-in was coming based on the circumstances. Like the previous two SKT WL matches the leading player probably didn't prepare a game 3 - along with all the other reasons you mentioned.
I guess what I meant was that particular all-in (handful of hydra + mass ling) wasn't expected. Certainly something I don't see very often anyway, I mostly remember mass hydra busts.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On April 10 2011 15:54 scrubtastic wrote:
Watched the VoD with Stats vs s2...why the *hell* did Stats:
a) go ovie hunting before scouting with his sair, and
b) stop sending scouting probes,
leaving him with no information until hydras were already at the front door?
Stats failing to scout s2 was KT's single biggest failing I think. Was there some other reason for him not scouting? Because what I see is a D level mistake that led Flash down to the world of Snipeland.
That was pretty sneaky by s2 though. No scouting just begs for an all-in, and a 10 hydra + mass ling all-in was pretty low on the "Expected Builds" list.
Lol at that fanboy blaming "everything wrong with the state of broodwar" for why s2 won that game though, hilarious.
I wouldn't be too harsh on stats.
a) and b) are both pretty much because he 'scouted' s2's lair with the scouting probe. It's pretty unexpected for zerg to cancel lair, as it doesn't give them that much of a timing boost even if they do. So stats was probably expecting normal 3 hatch spire into 5 hat hydra, which means you need to hurry up on the ovie kill before scourge get out, you can still scout them with the sair after scourge are out.
As for not sending out another scouting probe, it pretty much flows on from that, if the zerg had gone lair, the sair would get the ovie kill and have time to scout their base for mutts etc for you to not die from it.
Keep in mind that hydra and/or ling allins are not the only type of all ins that z can do vs the fe, there are also the tech based allins eg lurkling bust, mutt-scourge all in or mutt-ling all in. So after seeing the 'lair' stats played the percentages and assumed s2 was either playing standard, or doing a tech based all in.
S2 also did very well (if it was intentional) that his overlord position drew the sair into a path that did not fly close to the hydras that were massing up in the middle.
Overall it was a very subtly deceptive build and actually pretty hard for p to stop without leaving themselves open for something else. But such is the way of zvp, zerg always has the prerogative to turn the game into rock paper scissors if they really really insist, I mean look at shine's entire zvp career :D
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Russian Federation32 Posts
Death taste
![[image loading]](http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g395/zilav/Jaedong.gif)
Happy bunny
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/data/cheditor4/1104/BXVi1PzT.gif)
Poll: I prefer...Bisu's one (38) 64% Jaedong's one (21) 36% 59 total votes Your vote: I prefer... (Vote): Jaedong's one
(Vote): Bisu's one
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Stats screwed up big time....
It was smart of S2 to hide his lings and take out the gateway first before the cannons warped in.
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This is why kt needs a second terran. to snipe weak zvters ~~
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On April 10 2011 17:18 zilav wrote:Death taste Happy bunny Poll: I prefer...Bisu's one (38) 64% Jaedong's one (21) 36% 59 total votes Your vote: I prefer... (Vote): Jaedong's one
(Vote): Bisu's one
Bisu saying " OOOOOOh cheesed!" is obviously more awesum.
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Yeah i will cut Stats some slack, because PvZ is just a bitch and you never truly know what the Z has in mind till it's right in your face. On a map like that it could even be slow dropping right into your main or something similar. But still he prehaps did not play diligently enough considering the situation. That was the series on the line in that game, and a win could have turned things around. But it was just like a random standard PL PvZ loss. I just felt like it should have been more.
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On April 10 2011 15:55 Bisu-Fan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 00:12 luckybeni2 wrote:
It was a rather boring finals in my opinion. I was kind of on the skt side but come on... 2 zvz to start off and s2 getting 3 kills, not exactly spectacular. And the Bisu-Flash game was far from good, too. I had hoped for a little more action and much better games. Anyway, looking forward to the start of next PL season and the TSL, of course. wow.... what are you talking about man???? i can't comment on the s2 3 kill... but the s2 flash was intense for a while... and then Bisu vs Flash??? are you kidding me??? that was sooo intense!!!
It wasn't really intense. It was just a game with a slightly cheesey opening from Bisu and seeing whether Flash could micro against impossible odds to come back. He couldn't and then we just saw him do a desparate timing attack all-in where no timing existed.
The game was predictably over ever since the opening BOs were determined and Flash scouted the wrong way while Bisu scouted the right way.
I'm a little bitter about the luck involved in the spawn locations and scouting pattern, but I have to admit that the gamble was worth it from SKT. That build was a 66% auto win (only 33% chance to have far spawns, and it's pretty much 100% chance that Flash goes 1rax->CC). Good decision by the SKT coaching team, who I have to say, is a million billion trillion times better than the KT coaching team. Most of the time the KT coaches just rely on Flash and Stats to save their less-competent asses.
The finals were insanely bad quality though. Technical errors stopping play for a long time, 2 scrub-tier ZvZs, 1 Shine-eque all-in ZvP, 1 failed, horribly mismicroed ZvT, and lastly a cheesy PvT into failed all-in.
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Oh well, bad things happens sometimes. Just make up for it in SPL finals.
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Not my favorite finals unfortunately. Right after things started picking up (Flash vs s2) it ended. Blergh. Plus I was awake and watching for the s2 computer delay fiasco, so it was even more anticlimactic. I will say one thing: in my unbiased opinion Jaedong won that finals.
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So when Flash abused map/spawn against BeSt - he was awesome and when Bisu did same against him - cheeze. SC is about winning and as most peepz say Flash doesn't whine about maps etc etc.
If it was any other Protoss except Stork I am sure Flash would win easily.
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On April 10 2011 19:27 Zim23 wrote:
Not my favorite finals unfortunately. Right after things started picking up (Flash vs s2) it ended. Blergh. Plus I was awake and watching for the s2 computer delay fiasco, so it was even more anticlimactic. I will say one thing: in my unbiased opinion Jaedong won that finals.
I'm afraid Jaedong was a few dozen wasted scourge short of a victory in the finals.
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I was really disapointed with the Bisu / Flash game I have to say.
Although I have to say, it may stay as an important game since it seems that Bisu's strategy counters pretty well rax FE in TvP.
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Australia7069 Posts
walling off and building the CC in his main would've completely shut down bisu's strategy. I dont think its particuarly game changing or revolutionary. Not like its a new build either
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I just wish that KT did something unexpected like sending out flash first just to throw a spanner in SKT's plans.
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are those games available on some chinese site? on youtube im not able to watch them because of copyright. but i MUST watch Bisu as i do love him...
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EPT
