EPT[OSL] Grand Final - Page 203
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kdong90
United States281 Posts
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
Not that Fantasy isn't deserving, or extremely talented, I just felt Stork was on a roll. Kudos to Fantasy, 3-0 ovr Stork in a finals means a great deal. | ||
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
And fantasy is only good because ovv tells him what to do, despite the fact that SKT1 (oov coaches them all remember) only has one terran thats even somewhat decent or better and thats fantasy. I mean youd think oov could coach  Ssak to at least a ro16 after being the sole reason behind fantasy's OSL win right? Oh yeah and didn't fantasy also beat jaedong TWICE in the proleague finals 2 seasons ago when jaedong was the best player in the world to bring the title to T1 right? And hasn't he made 2 OSL finals before this one and played brilliantly (although losing 2-3) in both of them? And didn't he completely revolutionize mech tvz and make huge contributions to the current metagame in the matchup? Just like he just did in tvp against shuttle play in these finals? Oh yeah and weren't all of the maps he beat stork on protoss favored? And hasn't stork been playing absolutely brilliantly lately, winning 9 of his previous 10 pvts against some of the best terrans like Sea, HiyA, Mind, and Light, before the finals only to lose 0-3 to fantasy? But all that brilliance doesn't matter cause there might have been a girlfriend or something right that erased all that pvt brilliance.Ya fantasy hasn't proved himself after all that he sucks. he doesn't deserve any respect or credit for the win imo | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
But that does not mean that there was not factors that played a part in stork losing in such a way. A osl final is a tricky thing that is not just about who is the best player. I mean when Jaedong played Flash there was also alot of different factors that affected the outcome. Was Flash a deserving champion that played brilliant, of course he was, one thing does not exclude another. Now chill and lets move on. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:20 tedster wrote: Guys Stork should have made scouts he would totally have schooled Fantasy's quick anti-air in such a case in addition to crushing his timing pushes with the superior air power offered by this fantastic and highly-regarded Protoss unit Yeah completely ignore the argument with sarcasm and no follow up. You realize i'm talking about game 3 right? Not 1 or 2 in which going reaver was the mistake. In 3 you got a stargate doing NOTHING while arbiter tech is built and even getting killed by Fantasy; a scout would have definitely helped in the situation. Just like a scout or 2 would have helped BeSt during his arbiter transition against Flash on Fortress. Are you really arguing a unit that kills dropships/mines easily would not help him in that game? If you think it's bad just because it's not been done thats very limited and stupid thinking. It was an example of what he could of done. At the least he could have gone multiple shuttles knowing it's going to be a dropfest, we've seen the same done on Outsider near the end of its lifetime in PvT with both races going up to 4 dropships/shuttles. Even with multiple shuttles, the scout still compliments the shuttles because it takes away the turret fire allowing you to NOT GET THE SHUTTLE/OBSERVERS KILLED. He could have been zealot/goon dropping the left corner of his base with ease and stopped what was happening. But nah you're right he should have just played out he did, as if it was a regular PvT and trying to break a choke down the middle and constant elevator in his base with totally standard play. Stopping the dropship from giving aerial view over the wall in the first place would have been a good idea at the least. Kal has used a scout successfully in a different type of manner before to help break a no-goliath contain on his base. Think of it as a temporary alternative to a wraith in a TvT like situation except they do even more damage air to air. Also they can clear mines from inside your own base with zero risk. Think outside the box a little and maybe you'll play better SC yourself. Edit: Just watching the proleague game, even then it would have helped to have 1/2 scouts compared to the units/probes he lost to harass on both sides of the map. If it didnt kill or force the dropship away. it would at least, force the drop of goliaths with vulture/tank instead therefore making it less effective. And then you still got an easily mobile air minesweeper when paired with an obs. If you think resources are SO precious you can't afford to fit a couple of scouts anywhere in a build then you must cringe when seeing Stork run 5 zealots into mines or just constantly losing goons to mines. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On February 01 2011 18:03 infinity2k9 wrote: Yeah completely ignore the argument with sarcasm and no follow up. You realize i'm talking about game 3 right? Not 1 or 2 in which going reaver was the mistake. In 3 you got a stargate doing NOTHING while arbiter tech is built and even getting killed by Fantasy; a scout would have definitely helped in the situation. Just like a scout or 2 would have helped BeSt during his arbiter transition against Flash on Fortress. Are you really arguing a unit that kills dropships/mines easily would not help him in that game? If you think it's bad just because it's not been done thats very limited and stupid thinking. It was an example of what he could of done. At the least he could have gone multiple shuttles knowing it's going to be a dropfest, we've seen the same done on Outsider near the end of its lifetime in PvT with both races going up to 4 dropships/shuttles. Even with multiple shuttles, the scout still compliments the shuttles because it takes away the turret fire allowing you to NOT GET THE SHUTTLE/OBSERVERS KILLED. He could have been zealot/goon dropping the left corner of his base with ease and stopped what was happening. But nah you're right he should have just played out he did, as if it was a regular PvT and trying to break a choke down the middle and constant elevator in his base with totally standard play. Stopping the dropship from giving aerial view over the wall in the first place would have been a good idea at the least. Kal has used a scout successfully in a different type of manner before to help break a no-goliath contain on his base. Think of it as a temporary alternative to a wraith in a TvT like situation except they do even more damage air to air. Also they can clear mines from inside your own base with zero risk. Think outside the box a little and maybe you'll play better SC yourself. Edit: Just watching the proleague game, even then it would have helped to have 1/2 scouts compared to the units/probes he lost to harass on both sides of the map. If it didnt kill or force the dropship away. it would at least, force the drop of goliaths with vulture/tank instead therefore making it less effective. And then you still got an easily mobile air minesweeper when paired with an obs. If you think resources are SO precious you can't afford to fit a couple of scouts anywhere in a build then you must cringe when seeing Stork run 5 zealots into mines or just constantly losing goons to mines. SCOUTS DO NOT DO ANYTHING. They cost a ton, take a long time to build, take three hits to kill a single mine, and one upgraded goliath will counter two scouts. There's a reason why scouts are pretty much NEVER used. | ||
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Piste
6183 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
1. That is probably the coolest hype video i've ever seen in the OP. 2. Wow fantasy. Gratz on a long over-due OSL! Lucky JD wasn't there :D 3. Stork keeping the silver industry running. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On February 01 2011 18:03 infinity2k9 wrote: Yeah completely ignore the argument with sarcasm and no follow up. You realize i'm talking about game 3 right? Not 1 or 2 in which going reaver was the mistake. In 3 you got a stargate doing NOTHING while arbiter tech is built and even getting killed by Fantasy; a scout would have definitely helped in the situation. Just like a scout or 2 would have helped BeSt during his arbiter transition against Flash on Fortress. Are you really arguing a unit that kills dropships/mines easily would not help him in that game? If you think it's bad just because it's not been done thats very limited and stupid thinking. It was an example of what he could of done. At the least he could have gone multiple shuttles knowing it's going to be a dropfest, we've seen the same done on Outsider near the end of its lifetime in PvT with both races going up to 4 dropships/shuttles. Even with multiple shuttles, the scout still compliments the shuttles because it takes away the turret fire allowing you to NOT GET THE SHUTTLE/OBSERVERS KILLED. He could have been zealot/goon dropping the left corner of his base with ease and stopped what was happening. But nah you're right he should have just played out he did, as if it was a regular PvT and trying to break a choke down the middle and constant elevator in his base with totally standard play. Stopping the dropship from giving aerial view over the wall in the first place would have been a good idea at the least. Kal has used a scout successfully in a different type of manner before to help break a no-goliath contain on his base. Think of it as a temporary alternative to a wraith in a TvT like situation except they do even more damage air to air. Also they can clear mines from inside your own base with zero risk. Think outside the box a little and maybe you'll play better SC yourself. Edit: Just watching the proleague game, even then it would have helped to have 1/2 scouts compared to the units/probes he lost to harass on both sides of the map. If it didnt kill or force the dropship away. it would at least, force the drop of goliaths with vulture/tank instead therefore making it less effective. And then you still got an easily mobile air minesweeper when paired with an obs. If you think resources are SO precious you can't afford to fit a couple of scouts anywhere in a build then you must cringe when seeing Stork run 5 zealots into mines or just constantly losing goons to mines. Scouts are absolutely horrible and unused for a reason. They cost a shitton, they're slow, and just plain get killed with ease. Sniping dropships is a task more suitable for the corsair, if you really want to use an air unit for some reason. Quick, half the cost, and more effective in large numbers. Even the corsair costs more than the benefit it usually provides though. | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On February 01 2011 14:45 funnybananaman wrote: I wonder what other excuses we could possibly scavenge for stork, there's no way he legitimately lost and fantasy deserved to win right...? its not like fantasy is an excellent player that nearly beat flash in game 5 of the semi-finals last OSL in an amazing tvt series when flash was on top of the world an untouchable, and proceded to 3-0 jaedong after barely getting by fantasy.. right? Just a small correction: Flash won 3-2 against JD in the MSL where he beat Fantasy, not 3-0. | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
stork looked pretty solid game1 but he was just totally read by fantasy. when the armory and academy went up i was like holy shit no way. then he deflected the shuttle with gols and almost took it down with scan + range. stork's biggest mistake was going in with the shuttle again -__- game2 i was expecting stork to do something totally whack just to throw fantasy off a little seeing as how he got read game1, but he still did 1gate reaver which was quite lackluster. fantasy just read stork again deeming that his play is too rigid and stubborn and teched straight to wraiths and cleaned out the shuttle. game3 was just sad to look at. stork had lost it and fantasy was just in the zone, setting mine traps stork just walked into and using dropship flawlessly. i think stork needs to evolve as a player and stop doing the same thing over and over and over again. yes he's good at goon heavy play with reaver opening but fantasy has just proven that it can be beaten. fantasy really deserved the OSL. hope stork will recollect his thoughts and not take this too hard. hope his personal life didn't affect him too much, plenty of girls out there. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
I dunno why you'd be so against the idea when he lost a shitload more resources attempting to clean up the corner of his base. The scout or 2 would have at least forced goliaths in order to get the dropships into the base, which is good. | ||
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Evs
Philippines330 Posts
During the game however, he was banking on the faster arbiter to have a bigger impact on the game flow. Going for scouts would have delayed that forever. Obviously, this decision didn't pay out in the end but sticking with that build order seemed a more reasonable response than experimenting on the spot. PS: Fantasy had perfect scouting of Stork's economy and base at all times. The moment scouts come out he would know how little Stork's ground army would be due to the resources spent on those. Forget dropship play, Fantasy would just beeline his ground forces straight to the natural. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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tedster
984 Posts
On February 02 2011 23:57 infinity2k9 wrote: i'm not talking about large numbers i'm talking about 1 or 2 scouts on this particular map in this particular situation, it would of helped. Sairs suck against dropships in this particular situation while you can micro a scout back and forth above the wall on pathfinder to get the decent damage on them. The sair just chases the dropship away with its weak damage. When Fantasy was moving dropship back and forth for aerial view a scout would have been preferable to a corsair in the situation for sure. I dunno why you'd be so against the idea when he lost a shitload more resources attempting to clean up the corner of his base. The scout or 2 would have at least forced goliaths in order to get the dropships into the base, which is good. Oh my GOD i can't believe you are still going on about this | ||
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sCriv
United Kingdom90 Posts
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:14 ConSenT wrote: VODS anyone? http://www.youtube.com/user/moktira Enjoy | ||
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darklordjac
Canada2231 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:14 ConSenT wrote: VODS anyone? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50875¤tpage=377#7634 | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On February 03 2011 04:06 tedster wrote: Oh my GOD i can't believe you are still going on about this Oh my GOD i can't believe you don't contribute anything to the discussion at all. Have you actually got anything relevant to post? | ||
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