This is an interesting match because both of these players have been fairly fail in proleague as of late. Hydra was supposed to stand up and take the reigns of Hite entus with effort gone but never really took the initiative and snow tried to stand in that spot instead. Kwanro initially looked promising as part of skt but his last few games have been dissapointing, despite skt crushing through the competition. As a result, i'll base this prediction off past form and say that Hydra is gonna get Kwanrolled 2-0.
Unforntunately poor zero hits zvz in the Ro36 . We all know its zero's weakest matchup, and has often been his downfall in starleagues. However, his form in zvz has been fairly good as of late, going 9-2 in his last 11 zvz's, including wins over jaedong, action and hyuk, all quite strong zvzers. Hogils zvz form has been terrible. Really hoping that Zero quells his zvz heebie jeebies and crushes hogil! ZerO 2 - 0 HoGiL.
Finally! The revolutionist can take his revenge! We all remember the depths of bisu's slump, with his loss to shine (who then went on to take out stork as well ) but all stories have a happy ending. Bisu will CRUSH shine. This series wont even be close. Expect BM scouts, hillarious mass zealot/sair play and just generally seeing a total scrub getting cleaned out by the risen again bonjwa! Bisu 2-0 Shine
Predictions are up ^_^ I'll try and stream this if i can get a solid stream from gom tonight. As far as i'm concered this is the coming of the age of bisu
On November 26 2010 18:47 moopie wrote: First match should be over fast. Zero vZ can be pretty cool sometimes, moreso than the usual zvz.
Bisu vs Shine should be good for a laugh or two.
first match will be over fast, 100% true i would say zero vZ can be cool, but his opponent is an incompetent... so i don't expect any Zero vs Great or Zero vs Jaedongs
On November 26 2010 18:47 moopie wrote: First match should be over fast. Zero vZ can be pretty cool sometimes, moreso than the usual zvz.
Bisu vs Shine should be good for a laugh or two.
first match will be over fast, 100% true i would say zero vZ can be cool, but his opponent is an incompetent... so i don't expect any Zero vs Great or Zero vs Jaedongs
Well yes, assuming the match can get past the starting ling->muta, Zero could provide some good stuff. If not, at least it will be fast as well.
Two matches of ZvZ goodness Bisu vs Shine is going to be interesting. While I don't necessarily agree with OP's predictions with regards to match 3, it could certainly go that way - Bisu is in a rennaisance, but Shine has been showing some decent non-allinish play recently. It could possibly go in Shine's favour as well. It's going to be really interesting to see how this match plays out. Going to be slapping my slappy-sticks all the way through.
I wouldn't underestimate Shine for this one - he's on a nice win streak and has learned more than just hydra busting. Bisu has been looking good but some of his PvZ wins were very close to losses.
Rooting for Bisu, because a healthy Bisu is good for BW (he's still the closest thing to a top protoss representative)
Kwanro attacks into the nat of hydra, sees the sunken and backs out! also sees lack of gas for hydra while kwanro has his natural gas up and running already
There comes hydras nat gas already. Spire finished for hydra, kwanro's almost done
scourge in place by hydra to snipe hatching mutas! kwanro takes 1 hit, looks like its stabailised! Kwnanro loses all his lings at the natral, hydra coming with lings and mutas!
Sunken finishes for Kwanro! lings take it out tho, mutas fighting mutas, kwanro losesing drones everywhere! looking bad, but kwanro fights it off, hydra has a TON of scourge tho! Not sure wh's ahead, supply wise kwanro is 3 behind
HUGE MUTA ENGAGTEMENT, KWANRO HAS SCOURGE REMAINING, LOOKS LIKE KWANRO TAKES IT!
kwanro trying to pressure with lings but hjydra is keeping his ling count up, kwanro engages! bad arc and kwanro loses most of his lings but even casualties from hydra!, spirie timings are similar! looks like we're heading into midgame
Kwanros spire finishes slightly gast, attacks with lings again but is denied,thiss time with heaps of losses. Sneaks 3 lings into the main but hydra is countering with 5 lings of his own, but kwanro has mutas out! loses no drones!
kwanro attacking with mutas/scourghhe, corners hydras mutas but scourge come in just in time and hydra cleans up! 3 hurt mutas left, meanwhile kwanro gets some lings in and kills a couple of drones mining gas
Zero comes in with lings! takes out all hogils lings and has about 6 leftover, mutas out for hogil but scourge get a coiuple of muta kills, drones dying for hogil! the lings die Zero ahead in supply!
I must say that this game was tense, sick and awesome. Now it's either draw or Hogil's win; it will all depend on his Drone management. It's sad that either side has to be knocked out; they both deliver in terms of entertaniment.
On November 26 2010 21:21 Askalaphos wrote: Can anybody explain to me the difference between 'pp' and 'ppp'?
It has to be "ppp" if it's from the players. "pp" loses you the game. This was changed because "pp" looks too similar to "gg". But the rule change caused quite a bit of confusion, and several games were lost due to players mistyping when requesting a pause.
Neither player had any economy. Hogil couldn't move out because he had less mutalisks than zero and Zero couldn't finish the game since Hogil had two spore colonies.
No one was going to do anything and it wouldn't finish.
neither player could get more drones... zero had more mutas, and arguably better muta micro, but hogil had 2 spires protecting his main... I think zero could have taken each spire down with A LOOOT of time and got micro, but meh... no time to wait for either player to decide to take the risk and attack the other when status quo was advantageous for both of them...
On November 26 2010 21:39 ShadeR wrote: LOLgil Does calling it game 4 spoil game 3?
i put them in the game 3 spoiler so asa not to spoil people, not sure how else to do it, suggestions welcome
I'd make four spoiler tags, one for each game. Sure you give away something, but a) it's funnier that way, and b) I think people are already being way too paranoid with the spoiler tags; if someone clicks on "Results", I'm guessing he doesn't just want to see the results of _one_ of the games.
Edit: Sorry, point b) makes no sense, I got confused.
The results of todays matches allready suck. So i guess Shine will complete this miserable OSL-day with another lame 3-base-allin as he usually does. Then we have three players in Ro16 who really dont deserve to be there
actually the problem is in the recommended games section. What i ended up doing was putting a spoiler in the game 3 spoiler thats unmarked, i guess people can find it if they dig, in which case they deserve to be spoiled!
On November 26 2010 21:46 Don_Julio wrote: The results of todays matches allready suck. So i guess Shine will complete this miserable OSL-day with another lame 3-base-allin as he usually does. Then we have three players in Ro16 who really dont deserve to be there
Maybe you haven't been paying attention. I'm a bit surprised that Hogil moved on but he has been doing much better lately. And Hydra was the one with the seed. He has beaten some guys who have been overhyped to the moon in the past.
On November 26 2010 21:46 Kiante wrote: actually the problem is in the recommended games section. What i ended up doing was putting a spoiler in the game 3 spoiler thats unmarked, i guess people can find it if they dig, in which case they deserve to be spoiled!
You're not really spoiling anything, even with 4 spoiler tags. It will be clear that there was a draw, and thus you can't deduce the result of any of the games from the number of games played. It's only a problem if you put less tags than there were games.
On November 26 2010 22:11 Manit0u wrote: Told you, corsairs are bad. At the time you get your stargate you could already have like 6 goons, and that's a force to be reckoned with.
Except that it's significantly less mobile, and doesn't do any pressure because the Zerg can get Lings/Sunkens.
On November 26 2010 21:58 Manit0u wrote: I want to stop seeing corsairs in PvZ...
Me too Unless Dweb is involved somehow
Do you think the oldschool goon range obs + reaver would still work?
Probably not (but I don't know, given if it's bisu with his godly multi tasking and micro), you'd need to look after that shuttle and reaver really well because once that falls I think the goons will go shortly to almost anything. And although I don't like seeing corsairs in every PvZ matchup they're really good for killing ovies.
On November 26 2010 21:58 Manit0u wrote: I want to stop seeing corsairs in PvZ...
Me too Unless Dweb is involved somehow
Do you think the oldschool goon range obs + reaver would still work?
Probably not (but I don't know, given if it's bisu with his godly multi tasking and micro), you'd need to look after that shuttle and reaver really well because once that falls I think the goons will go shortly to almost anything. And although I don't like seeing corsairs in every PvZ matchup they're really good for killing ovies.
I think it was in game 3 of Stork v Jaedong in their most recent Bo5. Stork went for a goon reaver all in.
On November 26 2010 21:58 Manit0u wrote: I want to stop seeing corsairs in PvZ...
Me too Unless Dweb is involved somehow
Do you think the oldschool goon range obs + reaver would still work?
Probably not (but I don't know, given if it's bisu with his godly multi tasking and micro), you'd need to look after that shuttle and reaver really well because once that falls I think the goons will go shortly to almost anything. And although I don't like seeing corsairs in every PvZ matchup they're really good for killing ovies.
I think it was in game 3 of Stork v Jaedong in their most recent Bo5. Stork went for a goon reaver all in.
I don't remember that game, I'll look it up. Did stork win? using that strategy?
On November 26 2010 21:58 Manit0u wrote: I want to stop seeing corsairs in PvZ...
Me too Unless Dweb is involved somehow
Do you think the oldschool goon range obs + reaver would still work?
Probably not (but I don't know, given if it's bisu with his godly multi tasking and micro), you'd need to look after that shuttle and reaver really well because once that falls I think the goons will go shortly to almost anything. And although I don't like seeing corsairs in every PvZ matchup they're really good for killing ovies.
I think it was in game 3 of Stork v Jaedong in their most recent Bo5. Stork went for a goon reaver all in.
I don't remember that game, I'll look it up. Did stork win? using that strategy?
I've been somewhat of a Shine hater ever since he 2-1'd Stork a couple OSL's ago (I believe that was the one that Flash > Movie in the finals) but honestly, he knows how to beat a protoss - screw 3rd base and macro and shit, JUST PUMP UNITS LOL
On November 26 2010 21:58 Manit0u wrote: I want to stop seeing corsairs in PvZ...
Me too Unless Dweb is involved somehow
Do you think the oldschool goon range obs + reaver would still work?
Probably not (but I don't know, given if it's bisu with his godly multi tasking and micro), you'd need to look after that shuttle and reaver really well because once that falls I think the goons will go shortly to almost anything. And although I don't like seeing corsairs in every PvZ matchup they're really good for killing ovies.
I think it was in game 3 of Stork v Jaedong in their most recent Bo5. Stork went for a goon reaver all in.
I don't remember that game, I'll look it up. Did stork win? using that strategy?
He lost. gg'd when he couldn't break mass sunkens at Dong's nat and muta's entered his undefended main.
LOL Bisu disappoints again. Season after season, Protoss tragically clings their hope upon him only to have him dumped by mid-tier players early in the tournament.
Even I know that mass hydra beats mass dragoon. Why doesnt Bisu? So annoying whenever I start putting some faith in Bisu, he always lets you down. Unlike Flash <3
Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
As much as this is probably filled with rage, this is exactly what you do against Shine.
Go for safe openings, take a disadvantage, then roll Shine in the late game because the guy has the worst late game macro of any zerg playing right now.
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
Yeah, yeah. Fo sho.
Bisu just got outplayed - a phenomenon that in the last 2 years only the SKT fans dont seem to notice.
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
Shine is so good because he is so bad. Look at his game against Fantasy in EVER 2009.
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
As much as this is probably filled with rage, this is exactly what you do against Shine.
Go for safe openings, take a disadvantage, then roll Shine in the late game because the guy has the worst late game macro of any zerg playing right now.
Hmm... I'm not a Bisu fanboy but I would have liked to see him in the OSL, just cos it's been awhile since anyone's challenged Flash/JD and let's face it, Shine isn't going to. Other than that, Hydra and Hogil deserved their wins today.
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
As much as this is probably filled with rage, this is exactly what you do against Shine.
Go for safe openings, take a disadvantage, then roll Shine in the late game because the guy has the worst late game macro of any zerg playing right now.
...worse than Kwanro? I think that's arguable
Definitely worse, Kwanro's late game macro is not bad, he just can't use the tech benefits of hive tech very well. He can spit out a good amount of ultralisks and zerglings and have them all die to mines and tanks but that's having a bad late game and not having bad macro.
Shine can't manage a large economy. There are plenty of games proving this, the majority being late game TvZ slugfests where you just wonder why Shine's army is so small despite playing completely normal.
Yeah, I'm not a Bisu fan, but its sad when a talented toss loses like that, what happened Bisu? couldn't u put your chit together and win the scrub? Anyway its Shine, not Jaedong, and u know how he plays god damn it, its so silly Bisu, u earned it today, take it and walk away
on the upshot we have the afrotoss, baby. and bisu will win the MSL, where the maps are familiar and played on, unlike the typical shit OGN pull out for each OSL
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
0-3 again on Liquibet, from know on I'm going to bet against the players I want to win, no Zero or Bisu in the OSL, more Flash vs Jaedong, can't see Sea, Kal, Stork or Fantasy beating either of them, I'm losing faith in BW....
On November 26 2010 22:43 moktira wrote: 0-3 again on Liquibet, from know on I'm going to bet against the players I want to win, no Zero or Bisu in the OSL, more Flash vs Jaedong, can't see Sea, Kal, Stork or Fantasy beating either of them, I'm losing faith in BW....
moktira please don't upload the Bisu vs Shine VODs, I don't want anyone to see them.
Not really, the first game was mostly mutas and in the second game he made both hydras and lings. So he needed at least three functioning keys this series
On November 26 2010 22:30 disciple wrote: Bisu failed because he is trying so hard to get into the zergs head, to design his own pvz strategy and plan. Thats just the wrong approach vs Shine - you dont think of timings and harass, you dont think where are the holes of Shine's defense. You just sit back, build up stuff, and survive when Shine decides to throw his shit on you - simple as that.
As much as this is probably filled with rage, this is exactly what you do against Shine.
Go for safe openings, take a disadvantage, then roll Shine in the late game because the guy has the worst late game macro of any zerg playing right now.
I was raging after game one, because I knew shine will just hydra burst in the next 2 games and hope for the best. Its all bisu's fault - instead of preparing for PvZ he should've prepared for Shine.
On November 26 2010 22:33 Craton wrote: I'm thoroughly angry that so many bad players with zero chance of doing anything significant in this tournament managed to advance.
They only have zero chance , because they can't beat Flash or Jaedong . Against anyone else it's still anyone's game . Bisu has higher chances of beating Flash or Jaedong , but he is 50 - 50 % against players like Stork Free Kal and even other good zergs or terrans .
On November 26 2010 22:33 Craton wrote: I'm thoroughly angry that so many bad players with zero chance of doing anything significant in this tournament managed to advance.
They only have zero chance , because they can't beat Flash or Jaedong . Against anyone else it's still anyone's game . Bisu has higher chances of beating Flash or Jaedong , but he is 50 - 50 % against players like Stork Free Kal and even other good zergs or terrans .
at least stork is also kinda "good" against flash and jd... although flash has kinda dominated him lately...
On November 26 2010 22:33 Craton wrote: I'm thoroughly angry that so many bad players with zero chance of doing anything significant in this tournament managed to advance.
They only have zero chance , because they can't beat Flash or Jaedong . Against anyone else it's still anyone's game . Bisu has higher chances of beating Flash or Jaedong , but he is 50 - 50 % against players like Stork Free Kal and even other good zergs or terrans .
at least stork is also kinda "good" against flash and jd... although flash has kinda dominated him lately...
Recently Stork has expressed confidence in his ability to match Jaedong but not Flash.
On November 26 2010 22:43 moktira wrote: 0-3 again on Liquibet, from know on I'm going to bet against the players I want to win, no Zero or Bisu in the OSL, more Flash vs Jaedong, can't see Sea, Kal, Stork or Fantasy beating either of them, I'm losing faith in BW....
moktira please don't upload the Bisu vs Shine VODs, I don't want anyone to see them.
I'll upload it in an hour or so anyway so just avoid my channel for a while....
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
Disappointing as a Bisu fan, but life goes on.
Yeah, the better player in those games won, pretty disappointed at the people who are threatening to leave BW because Bisu lost. I mean look at it this way, if he had played like this he would have gotten stomped by Jaedong anyway.
I agree that it's tragic that Zero and Bisu are out of Ro16 but there's still Stork and free... and afrostyle ><, shit happens in tournaments, I was pretty sad when Flash > JD this year too.
But there's no doubt though, tonight's games were pretty entertaining. Zero/Hogil draw blew my mind.
Although it's kinda disappointing as a Protoss/SKT/Bisu fan, I didn't really feel like Bisu was truly "back" yet. Some of his wins during proleague were really shaky. As long as he keeps going and doesn't let a few losses get to him he should be fine, though.
Wtb a Protoss winning a starleague. I don't care if it's fucking Horang2 at this point. Somebody just get that shit done.
On November 26 2010 23:01 Vortok wrote: Although it's kinda disappointing as a Protoss/SKT/Bisu fan, I didn't really feel like Bisu was truly "back" yet. Some of his wins during proleague were really shaky. As long as he keeps going and doesn't let a few losses get to him he should be fine, though.
Wtb a Protoss winning a starleague. I don't care if it's fucking Horang2 at this point. Somebody just get that shit done.
On November 26 2010 22:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
Disappointing as a Bisu fan, but life goes on.
Yeah, the better player in those games won, pretty disappointed at the people who are threatening to leave BW because Bisu lost. I mean look at it this way, if he had played like this he would have gotten stomped by Jaedong anyway.
I agree that it's tragic that Zero and Bisu are out of Ro16 but there's still Stork and free... and afrostyle ><, shit happens in tournaments, I was pretty sad when Flash > JD this year too.
But there's no doubt though, tonight's games were pretty entertaining. Zero/Hogil draw blew my mind.
They (the guys who say they quit BW) will all be back; we're just all a bit frustrated because of the way he lost...
Honestly, I want to hate Shine for eliminating Bisu, but it's really that Bisu didn't play like he should've vs. Shine. I thought that Bisu would've learned how to deal with Shine by now. >.< Now that Bisu is gone, I'm rooting for Afrotoss man!
On November 26 2010 23:12 blahman3344 wrote: Honestly, I want to hate Shine for eliminating Bisu, but it's really that Bisu didn't play like he should've vs. Shine. I thought that Bisu would've learned how to deal with Shine by now. >.< Now that Bisu is gone, I'm rooting for Afrotoss man!
Hear hear! Afrotoss for the next OSL champion. SKT fans still have one of their Toss players to root for, and a new face at that!
On November 26 2010 22:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
Disappointing as a Bisu fan, but life goes on.
Yeah, the better player in those games won, pretty disappointed at the people who are threatening to leave BW because Bisu lost. I mean look at it this way, if he had played like this he would have gotten stomped by Jaedong anyway.
I agree that it's tragic that Zero and Bisu are out of Ro16 but there's still Stork and free... and afrostyle ><, shit happens in tournaments, I was pretty sad when Flash > JD this year too.
But there's no doubt though, tonight's games were pretty entertaining. Zero/Hogil draw blew my mind.
The better player won? Are you seriously calling Shine a better player than Bisu? Bisu had that first game by the balls, if it were not for his terrifyingly stupid decision to NOT morph an Archon, that game would've been almost a complete rape (somehow I attribute this to Bisu trying to put on a show by killing the Mutas with storm.. normally he actually does make an archon in those situations -___-). Second game was a simple BO win for Shine, but I question Bisu's choice in strategy when there was (what I thought) a high chance of a hydra bust happening in game 2..
Bisu simply got incredibly unlucky this series, disregarding the colossal fuckup at the end of game 1, his play was subliminal. At this point I'm really just hoping for someone to drop out and a wildcard tourney to happen.. ><
On November 26 2010 22:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
Disappointing as a Bisu fan, but life goes on.
Yeah, the better player in those games won, pretty disappointed at the people who are threatening to leave BW because Bisu lost. I mean look at it this way, if he had played like this he would have gotten stomped by Jaedong anyway.
I agree that it's tragic that Zero and Bisu are out of Ro16 but there's still Stork and free... and afrostyle ><, shit happens in tournaments, I was pretty sad when Flash > JD this year too.
But there's no doubt though, tonight's games were pretty entertaining. Zero/Hogil draw blew my mind.
The better player won? Are you seriously calling Shine a better player than Bisu? Bisu had that first game by the balls, if it were not for his terrifyingly stupid decision to NOT morph an Archon, that game would've been almost a complete rape (somehow I attribute this to Bisu trying to put on a show by killing the Mutas with storm.. normally he actually does make an archon in those situations -___-). Second game was a simple BO win for Shine, but I question Bisu's choice in strategy when there was (what I thought) a high chance of a hydra bust happening in game 2..
Bisu simply got incredibly unlucky this series, disregarding the colossal fuckup at the end of game 1, his play was subliminal. At this point I'm really just hoping for someone to drop out and a wildcard tourney to happen.. ><
He's 5-3 vs Bisu with these games today. Results speak for themselves, can't deny that Bisu fanboys.
On November 26 2010 22:35 GTR wrote: bisu fan tears are the best tears. good work shine.
I can't help but agree. I haven't seen the game yet, but seriously, bisu fans, man the fuck up. People lose games. They win games. You aren't a real fan of BW anyway if you can't handle your favorite player losing from time to time. Try to put yourself into the shoes of a Jangbi fan for instance, and then we can talk about being heartbroken.
On November 26 2010 22:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:
On November 26 2010 22:35 SkelA wrote: LoL at all ppl with SKT tags that are crying "im done with BW boo hoo " .
Meh, they're just frustrated. BW > Bisu.
I'm disappointed that Bisu is out of the OSL, but mostly b/c I'd like to see somebody, anybody, challenge Flash and JD.
The worst thing about tonight's losses for me was the poor decision making by Bisu. He was bossing set 1 and then got lax with preserving his Sairs and protecting his Main (which would've been protected by the Sairs, tho preferably in combination with Archons). I've also got nfi why he thought he could counter Hydras (+ Lings) with Goons (and the odd Zealot) in set 2.
Disappointing as a Bisu fan, but life goes on.
Yeah, the better player in those games won, pretty disappointed at the people who are threatening to leave BW because Bisu lost. I mean look at it this way, if he had played like this he would have gotten stomped by Jaedong anyway.
I agree that it's tragic that Zero and Bisu are out of Ro16 but there's still Stork and free... and afrostyle ><, shit happens in tournaments, I was pretty sad when Flash > JD this year too.
But there's no doubt though, tonight's games were pretty entertaining. Zero/Hogil draw blew my mind.
The better player won? Are you seriously calling Shine a better player than Bisu? Bisu had that first game by the balls, if it were not for his terrifyingly stupid decision to NOT morph an Archon, that game would've been almost a complete rape (somehow I attribute this to Bisu trying to put on a show by killing the Mutas with storm.. normally he actually does make an archon in those situations -___-). Second game was a simple BO win for Shine, but I question Bisu's choice in strategy when there was (what I thought) a high chance of a hydra bust happening in game 2..
Bisu simply got incredibly unlucky this series, disregarding the colossal fuckup at the end of game 1, his play was subliminal. At this point I'm really just hoping for someone to drop out and a wildcard tourney to happen.. ><
Never said Shine was a better player than Bisu, I did add "in those games". And it seems that you somewhat agree in your post as well, just clarifying. I'm sorry that Bisu lost, hope he continues to do well in PL/MSL, 20-0 maybe? If he can dodge certain people D:
Also, the Bisu haters are becoming more vocal nowadays. In all honesty, it makes me kinda sad to see people hate Bisu. He is the one protoss in the entire history of BW that actually take titles(Stork=King of Silver T_T). It's pretty painful to see people bashing the only one that has a chance, and he's the only champion of his race that isn't consistent until the end of time. It's understandable if you like someone else more, but it pains me to see people hate the only chance a protoss player has at winning leagues. That being said, I really hope Stork makes me proud somehow. Maybe he can play Thailand Emulator on his cellphone before the finals.
On November 26 2010 22:35 GTR wrote: bisu fan tears are the best tears. good work shine.
I can't help but agree. I haven't seen the game yet, but seriously, bisu fans, man the fuck up. People lose games. They win games. You aren't a real fan of BW anyway if you can't handle your favorite player losing from time to time. Try to put yourself into the shoes of a Jangbi fan for instance, and then we can talk about being heartbroken.
I totally agree with this, be a fucking man ffs, so glad Shine won!
That's what the Bisu fangirls get for their annoying bs talking all the time.
The other Hwaseung House that must be quoted here http://i31.tinypic.com/2qckmjd.jpg Could not see the game, but it seems Shine played quite well... And I'm pretty happy with the result, because now Bisu/SKT fanboys will be a bit less annoying than they have been for the past months, and Bisu is still in the MSL, so he has a chance to reedeem himself. PS : to those who complain about Bisu haters, if you fans were a bit less... vocal... maybe there would not be so many "Delicious fanboys tears"-kind of posts... I'm not particularly a Bisu fan, because I like some of his rivals better, but I don't hate him, and I don't think many people do after this last year... While Shine haters seem to be pretty common... Edit : BTW Hydra is a pretty good player, and from today's game, Hogil really deserve his qualification. His decision making in the rematch game was really good.
Hey uh, im kinda wondering here... whats the point of hating a player? I mean i can understand when you know someone well and he is a douchebag but hating on someone you only see on your computer screen every once in a while and know absolutely NOTHING about him? In my opinion all the pro BW players are at least partly awesome because they are amazingly good at the game I love. I dont see ANY reason at all to say stuff like "fuck you shine you fucking dick" or "im so glad bisu lost" It seems like people who say that kind of stuff have some nasty mental conditions or just really low IQ's. It's a tournament - players probably play to win, no?
On November 27 2010 00:08 Lightwip wrote: Also, the Bisu haters are becoming more vocal nowadays. In all honesty, it makes me kinda sad to see people hate Bisu. He is the one protoss in the entire history of BW that actually take titles(Stork=King of Silver T_T). It's pretty painful to see people bashing the only one that has a chance, and he's the only champion of his race that isn't consistent until the end of time. It's understandable if you like someone else more, but it pains me to see people hate the only chance a protoss player has at winning leagues. That being said, I really hope Stork makes me proud somehow. Maybe he can play Thailand Emulator on his cellphone before the finals.
Most of us aren't Starcraft racists or massive fanboys of any player. We just want to see good games. Yeah its actually really sad that Bisu got knocked out before he could play Flash, Jaedong or Stork and show some amazing games since his play has improved greatly.
That said...Bisu haters are there because of the fanboys. Basically the last thread was filled with fanboys telling Shine to prepare his ass because Bisu was going to rape him hard (people literally posted this shit). Despite knowing Shine will never show really amazing games, the schadenfreude I felt seeing the amount of fanboy rage after Bisu lost 2-0 was enough to comfort me.
On November 27 2010 00:25 KasPra wrote: Hey uh, im kinda wondering here... whats the point of hating a player? I mean i can understand when you know someone well and he is a douchebag but hating on someone you only see on your computer screen every once in a while and know absolutely NOTHING about him? In my opinion all the pro BW players are at least partly awesome because they are amazingly good at the game I love. I dont see ANY reason at all to say stuff like "fuck you shine you fucking dick" or "im so glad bisu lost" It seems like people who say that kind of stuff have some nasty mental conditions or just really low IQ's. It's a tournament - players probably play to win, no?
Fanboys will be fanboys. Why do hate on other game consoles like the Wii or why to computer enthusiasts literally explode with rage the minute they see people supporting Apple? Its all irrational.
On November 27 2010 00:25 KasPra wrote: Hey uh, im kinda wondering here... whats the point of hating a player?
Not really the same kind of hate, mostly just anti-fanboyism. The reason is usually beating someone you like, especially with cheese. Only player I really 'hate' is by.hero(to a lesser extent Flash, but less so than before), and that's because most of his fans will say he's good(and I agree), but I just can't stand his inclination towards the cheesy.
Also, game 3 of Zero vs Hogil was awesomesauce.
On November 27 2010 00:28 Womwomwom wrote:That said...Bisu haters are there because of the fanboys. Basically the last thread was filled with fanboys telling Shine to prepare his ass because Bisu was going to rape him hard (people literally posted this shit). Despite knowing Shine will never show really amazing games, schadenfreude I felt seeing the amount of fanboy rage after Bisu lost 2-0 was enough to comfort me.
Hmm, that's fair. Although I think Jaedong fanboyism is just as bad, but I guess the fact that he wins more gives the anti-fans have less chance to be vocal.
On November 27 2010 00:33 BlackMagister wrote: Omg must see Hogil's game, wtf how do you get a draw in ZvZ? Has that ever even been done in a pro game?
This is nothing compared to the "hatred" between some clubs in football. Sports/e-sports is just like that. People get emotionally invested. Irrational but understandable.
Yeah, Hogil's game was really exciting, a must-see.
On November 27 2010 00:33 BlackMagister wrote: Omg must see Hogil's game, wtf how do you get a draw in ZvZ? Has that ever even been done in a pro game?
First two sets are on my channel on youtube, the rest will be up within about fifteen minutes
I like Bisu. However, I'm happy to see him lose, not because I like Shine better (I would always root against Shine in any other situation), but because it's fun to see so many others pissed off. It's schadenfreude!
I hope Bisu doesnt go back into a hole after this. Maybe he can tackle the next individual leagues in a better shape. Im certain his skill is up to it, i just think he's developed after time a mental barrier when playing, that's why he always chokes.
On November 27 2010 00:33 BlackMagister wrote: Omg must see Hogil's game, wtf how do you get a draw in ZvZ? Has that ever even been done in a pro game?
First two sets are on my channel on youtube, the rest will be up within about fifteen minutes
Wow Bisu bad time to not play as well, quite depressing actually. Oh well, he is more of an MSL guy anyway. And for all the people hating on him, this is just the nature of pvz he can and has happened to everyone.
The Flash and Jaedong fanboys are just as bad or worse than the Bisu. Its just that Bisu has not been quite at the caliber of them lately and Flash and Jaedong have been doing really well since whenever you guys jumped on the bandwagon.
Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
Fantasy definitely had a chance last MSL to beat flash, but Flash was too good and/or Fantasy choked.
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
Both Stork and Fantasy have both proved that they can take Flash/Jaedong to their limits, so it wouldn't be as shocking as you would think.
On November 27 2010 02:08 Nick_54 wrote: The Flash and Jaedong fanboys are just as bad or worse than the Bisu. Its just that Bisu has not been quite at the caliber of them lately and Flash and Jaedong have been doing really well since whenever you guys jumped on the bandwagon.
No I don't think so, Bisu has a ton of fans. I think he is the most popular of the three, and Flash is probably the least popular. But it has been a while since the last poll here on TL.
For the record, I'm very disapointed that Bisu didn't make it because he is the best protoss in the world on a good day. And I admire people who owns in the 'hard march ups'.
As a Wemade Fan, I'm happy about that, but in terms of potential "name-brand games," Bisu's loss hurts.
Zero being knocked out is also a shocker. Zero does have a tendency though to be remarkably inconsistent, especially in ZvZ so I guess I can't say it was too shocking.
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
dude are you kidding me? on a good day stork or fantasy can def beat jaedong or flash in bo5.
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
dude are you kidding me? on a good day stork or fantasy can def beat jaedong or flash in bo5.
To be fair, on a good day, Flash and Jaedong crush anyone who isn't Flash and Jaedong.
On November 27 2010 02:08 Nick_54 wrote: The Flash and Jaedong fanboys are just as bad or worse than the Bisu. Its just that Bisu has not been quite at the caliber of them lately and Flash and Jaedong have been doing really well since whenever you guys jumped on the bandwagon.
as a wemade/stx fanboy, the bisu fans are the worst fanboys by a large margin.
and that's what makes there fanboy tears so great, good job shine. Also, all of you saying "same cheesy shit every game" he's actually been showing some impressive turtle zerg vs p recently, maybe you should watch some teams other than skt
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
Both Stork and Fantasy have both proved that they can take Flash/Jaedong to their limits, so it wouldn't be as shocking as you would think.
Fantasy certainly has, but Stork? I don't think so. When Jaedong was clearly not having a good day at all in that Bo5, Stork lost, and we all know what happened in the 2 finals that Stork played against Flash/JD(he got raped). Fantasy certainly didn't beat either of them, but I'd favor Fantasy over Stork against both Flash and JD(not that I expect him to win, just more likely than Stork).
By the way, to be honest, if Bisu can't stop the cheese against a player that is well known for being cheesy, he clearly wasn't cheated out of a victory. Who didn't expect Shine to all-in?
On November 26 2010 22:38 POWEROUTAGE wrote: 7 Zergs 5 Terrans 4 Protoss
do not want ZvZ bo5s
hey, the zero/hogil bo4 was pretty funny, just stick on one more game. but yeah, i don't want that either, mainly because:
- watching any of hogil, calm, hyuk, hydra, modesty or shine isn't on my things to do list - watching jaedong roflstomp any of these isn't either
i'm basically just rooting for any protoss at this point. flash/jaedong winning all the time, although deserved, gets boring and any protoss left in winning would be awesome. well, maybe not kal
Fantasy certainly has, but Stork? I don't think so. When Jaedong was clearly not having a good day at all in that Bo5, Stork lost, and we all know what happened in the 2 finals that Stork played against Flash/JD(he got raped). Fantasy certainly didn't beat either of them, but I'd favor Fantasy over Stork against both Flash and JD(not that I expect him to win, just more likely than Stork).
in that horrible jd > yarnc osl, fantasy had jd by his balls in their semifinal and then fails to block the lings. stork had jd by his balls in their semifinal and then fails to defend the lings. they are pretty much the same caliber of chokers. but still they both got it in them to beat flash or jd.
By the way, to be honest, if Bisu can't stop the cheese against a player that is well known for being cheesy, he clearly wasn't cheated out of a victory. Who didn't expect Shine to all-in?
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
dude are you kidding me? on a good day stork or fantasy can def beat jaedong or flash in bo5.
your "good day" is assuming that Leessang are simultaneously having a "horrible day"
you cannot beat leessang if you're just having a "good day". You need an "absolutely unbelievable holy shit I don't need power overwhelming" day... and leessang needs to have less than an "average day".
strangely enough, he has a winning record against jaedong it seems shine and the OSL are bisu's natural enemies after all >_>
today... instead of seeing bisu, zero, and kwanro in the OSL, we're seeing shine, hogil, and hydra
does anybody besides me feel extremely cheated? at least with jaehoon and perfectman over in the msl we might get entertainment, but over here we get a lot of scrubbery
also lol @ all the "fuck this I'm done with BW" temper tantrums a few pages back. Wish I didn't have to work today so I could have stayed up all the way through.
On November 27 2010 03:30 setzer wrote: Looks like another Flash vs Jaedong final. I seriously don't expect horrible players like Hogil and Shine to do much of anything. I guess their is Stork or Fantasy, but neither of them can win against Flash or Jaedong in a bo5.
dude are you kidding me? on a good day stork or fantasy can def beat jaedong or flash in bo5.
Stork and Fantasy DID have good days when they played last season and Jaedong played like trash in those games, yet both of those players crumbled in in the 5th match.
Let's just face the facts: if anyone is going to beat Flash or Jaedong in a bo5 it is likely going to have to come from those two making game-losing mistakes throughout the entire series. Leesang is unbeatable for anyone else, and they have shown it over the last three seasons.
On November 26 2010 22:26 Womwomwom wrote: There we go, as I predicted last thread Shine won because of his grandma and everyone who went "Bisu going to rape" is looking mighty silly right now.
Gotta love Shine's grandma, always cheering for him!
GO SHINE!! Since he declared he is a fan of July, I support him in every game ('cept vs STX).
EDIT: I believe Archons wouldn't be a wise choice against the mutas in set one, all those buildings in Bisu's base would block their paths.
bisu losing isn't a surprise. the strat that he used for his vZ streak was getting countered with mid-game mutas, which means he has to take care of the sairs. he didn't make the necessary adjustment and this made his strat rather risky.
Haha Bisu... I was hoping he'd advance (for the sake of OSL quality) but it's great to see his fans cry
Some Bisu fans (not all, I know there are some reasonable ones out there but you get drowned out by the masses) showing their true colors, crying "I'm done with BW". Flash went through a similar stretch of Starleague fail and his true fans kept watching and waiting. Hell, Savior never came back but his fans waited too.
Bisu fans have on average (again, the masses drown out the good ones) been the least knowledgeable, least faithful, most judgmental ("I hate <player> because he's ugly"), and most obnoxious (you'll get 10x the "Bisu is going to rape <player> in the ass" from a Bisu game thread). And you guys wonder why people are happy to see him lose....
These results feel sooo wrong... Best case scenario: We get to see Flash showcasing his awesome TvZ against mediocre opponents till JD and him meet in the finals yet again. Worst case: We get to see tons of mediocre ZvZs...
Fuck yeah, Shine! He's disturbingly one of the top 5 zergs in the game you know (Jaedong, Roro, Zero, Shine, Soulkey) , and knows how to handle Bisu, so don't shit your pants; applaud the man!
Huuuuge disappointment is Zero, losing a ZvZ series to Hogil, possibly the worst ZvZer in the game.
Also, Hydra is back. I think the kid is a waste of space, but considering Kwanro himself has never made it past the OSL Ro16, I guess it doesn't really matter that much.
After watching the VODs, you have to be impressed with Shine's muta micro. He basically won the game with what, just those 9 mutalisks? Was it even that many? Bisu's corsairs that had been killing all things air all evaporated in about ten seconds. Quite the turnaround. Also, still loving how Shine is catching flack for going hydra-bust game three, yet Bisu was going for a goon-bust at the same time. *smacks forehead* For God's sake, man, you don't try to out all-in Shine, that makes no sense at all. It's like trying to go late-game terran vs SoulKey, or trying to make an angrier face than Jaedong.
HAHA omg Bisu lost to Shine once AGAIN! Jesus, I think he got way cocky in game 1 and then game 2, he should've just went to this normal build lol. This is WAAAY too funny. The Zerg player in me is laughing pretty hard knowing that a simple executed 3 Hatch Hydra break can beat the best PvZer!
PvP Yes Chalrenge vs Rock PvT Yes Flash vs JangBi TvT I'm guessing yes but can't cite a game, maybe Canata has had one. PvZ Not sure, Stork vs GGPlay was close to a draw with even kespa pausing the game but wasn't a tie TvZ I doubt it, but don't know
On November 27 2010 11:36 BlackMagister wrote: So what matches have we not seen a draw in now?
PvP Yes Chalrenge vs Rock PvT Yes Flash vs JangBi TvT I'm guessing yes but can't cite a game, maybe Canata has had one. PvZ Not sure, Stork vs GGPlay was close to a draw with even kespa pausing the game but wasn't a tie TvZ I doubt it, but don't know
Wow, Kwanro and Zero getting eliminated through ZvZs sucks. Hogil getting into the round of 16 is a complete waste of time too. Hydra has some promise although I don't think he's good enough against the top players.
Bisu could have won the first game if he had pulled back after taking out Shine's third so I don't think anyone can blame Shine for that.
Zero is always an interesting player and always makes the Ro8 just like Hwasin used to do in the MSL , but when you fail to reach the semis 3 seasons in a row i don't feel bad for him . Not counting the loss against Jaedong , but losing to Free and Movie back then was really bad for the level of player he is . So i don't mind seeing some other decent zergs like Hogil in the leagues . The guy can play a pretty mean ZvP and ZvT if he brings his best , and seeing that he beat Zero he is probably right below Jaedong as the rest of the zergs in ZvZ .
On November 28 2010 00:35 raga4ka wrote: Zero is always an interesting player and always makes the Ro8 just like Hwasin used to do in the MSL , but when you fail to reach the semis 3 seasons in a row i don't feel bad for him . Not counting the loss against Jaedong , but losing to Free and Movie back then was really bad for the level of player he is . So i don't mind seeing some other decent zergs like Hogil in the leagues . The guy can play a pretty mean ZvP and ZvT if he brings his best , and seeing that he beat Zero he is probably right below Jaedong as the rest of the zergs in ZvZ .
On November 28 2010 00:35 raga4ka wrote: Zero is always an interesting player and always makes the Ro8 just like Hwasin used to do in the MSL , but when you fail to reach the semis 3 seasons in a row i don't feel bad for him . Not counting the loss against Jaedong , but losing to Free and Movie back then was really bad for the level of player he is . So i don't mind seeing some other decent zergs like Hogil in the leagues . The guy can play a pretty mean ZvP and ZvT if he brings his best , and seeing that he beat Zero he is probably right below Jaedong as the rest of the zergs in ZvZ .
I'd see ZerO ZvP and ZvT over Hogil ANY day.
You know, you should watch some of Hogils zvp from the... avalon msl? I think, it was on byzantium vs free atleast.
And about his zvt. Go look up his game vs mind (and flash) from the ever osl (on eye of the storm and el nino respectively).
i want to see that guy come back to his good form alot, iirc he had 70% zvp winrate once and people talked about his zvp like we talk about shuttle pvp now actually. (he peaked 2170 elo zvp, just looked it up on TLPD)
On November 27 2010 09:23 jalstar wrote: I saw the OP was temp banned and immediately suspected that Shine won. Shine's caused so many temp bans on this forum it's getting silly.
On November 27 2010 09:23 jalstar wrote: I saw the OP was temp banned and immediately suspected that Shine won. Shine's caused so many temp bans on this forum it's getting silly.
On November 26 2010 22:43 moktira wrote: 0-3 again on Liquibet, from know on I'm going to bet against the players I want to win, no Zero or Bisu in the OSL, more Flash vs Jaedong, can't see Sea, Kal, Stork or Fantasy beating either of them, I'm losing faith in BW....
They still doesnt pass Ro16, 1 mini slump for any of them and everything may happen.
On November 27 2010 09:23 jalstar wrote: I saw the OP was temp banned and immediately suspected that Shine won. Shine's caused so many temp bans on this forum it's getting silly.
Do Korean netizens rage just as hard about this?
hahah ohh i am super curious about this now
Stork has stated in an interview that he respects Shine's play, but Bisu fans everywhere have a habit of going off the handle.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0N2Dv.png)
Hydra is gonna get 
. We all know its zero's weakest matchup, and has often been his downfall in starleagues. However, his form in zvz has been fairly good as of late, going 9-2 in his last 11 zvz's, including wins over jaedong, action and hyuk, all quite strong zvzers. Hogils zvz form has been terrible. Really hoping that Zero quells his zvz heebie jeebies and crushes hogil! 
Bisu 2-0 ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WE5Ww.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/trLFx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CKPz0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UnhqZ.jpg)
Bisu vs Shine is going to be interesting. While I don't necessarily agree with OP's predictions with regards to match 3, it could certainly go that way - Bisu is in a rennaisance, but Shine has been showing some decent non-allinish play recently. It could possibly go in Shine's favour as well. It's going to be really interesting to see how this match plays out. Going to be slapping my slappy-sticks all the way through.
![[image loading]](http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID9194/images/350px-Zero10_Kopie.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i35.tinypic.com/w9ih5d.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8194/hogilface.jpg)
