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On August 17 2010 13:39 SimonB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 13:38 Ace wrote:On August 17 2010 13:34 n.DieJokes wrote:
Also, I would like everyone to take note on how good and valuable ultras are vs. mech they are still terrible. The difference is that a player like Light uses his initial MM force to get map control, mines the shit out of the map and gets his expansions up. Fantasy didn't. When you're facing 30 tanks backed up by mines Ultras are fucking terrible. Fantasy mined it up pretty well. Zero made it a priority to sweep them up though. Plus, it's much easier said than done to make some kind of unbreakable defense like Flash did against Zero when dark swarm and 'lings are involved..
Fantasy started mining up way after the game was pretty much out of hand. His MM force never even left his base. Vastly different levels of skill displayed but it does show that the mech switch isn't as "ez win" as some people made it out to be.
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On August 17 2010 13:31 n.DieJokes wrote:
I don't think Fantasy has the mechanical skill to beat ZerO the way FlaSh did
True, but we also have to mention a couple things that Zero did in this game that he didn't do good against FlaSh.
First, his mutas survived a long time, providing him secure his double gas expo and giving him high mobility to avoid vulture harass on mid game, and also delaying Fantasy to take a 3rd gas. Then he started making ultralisk quite soon, no gas or money wasted on lurkers. Better choices against bio-> mech i think.
I also think that fantasy didn't make the right choices. Instead of defending the area that could give him 9 oclock expansion and min only (like flash did), he decided to move to the right hoping to take the corner expansion and double gas soon and securing the 12 min only expansion very soon. This way he couldn't defend properly from Zero push on the highest ground between his corner expansion and min only.
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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United States11393 Posts
On August 17 2010 13:36 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 13:34 Harem wrote:On August 17 2010 13:31 n.DieJokes wrote:
I don't think Fantasy has the mechanical skill to beat ZerO the way FlaSh did It's more like this is why you don't expand upwards on this map and instead should expand toward 3 or 9. Z can't flank and turrets stop drops etc so easily. eh I think it could have worked, theoretically it's a much easier four gas and from there he could have crawled down towards the main. It doesn't pressure ZerO at all though and fantasy did not do a good enough or quick enough job setting up his turtle
Zerg can abuse the terran's lack of mobility etc much easier though as there are way more potential places to poke at that can be vulnerable. (for example, see how easily zero dropped on tanks at high ground by double gas due to lack of turrets)
When T takes 9, they are much more constricted and areas of vulnerability are much smaller.
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On August 17 2010 13:38 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 13:33 n.DieJokes wrote:On August 17 2010 13:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Why would you split your forces against Terran mech? Zero could've easily overwhelmed Fantasy's 3rd if he didn't waste so many units on the drop. Because if all your stuff is one place so is his... The more fronts you can attack on the stronger your play A "fake" drop would've been much more effective (something I wish more zergs would try) forcing Terran to pull some tanks to his main, followed by an allout attack on Fantasy 3rd. Fantasy really didn't have many units at his 3rd base, Zero could've easily overwhelmed him and ended the game right there.
Did you see all his mines and turrets and jank. Fantasy would at very least have waited to see how much of any drop survived before pulling any of his forces back. I don't think it would have been very effective in this instance but I do like fake drops and would like to see them more often
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On August 17 2010 13:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Also, I don't think that game proves anything regarding the lategame mech imbalance. Zero had the advantage of being able to skip lurkers and tech straight to ultras (a unit that works against both bio and mech). One of the big problems with the lategame mech transition is that by then, zerg has invested a lot in lurkers.
Zero suffered for it by losing like a gajillion drones? What does that count for? He still came back and won.
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Zero's in trouble, early pool vs 2 rax 
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10387 Posts
Whoa, nice mindgaming by Fantasy
nvm, I thought he'd go for a 2 rax push since Zero only saw 1 rax
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On August 17 2010 13:42 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 13:36 n.DieJokes wrote:On August 17 2010 13:34 Harem wrote:On August 17 2010 13:31 n.DieJokes wrote:
I don't think Fantasy has the mechanical skill to beat ZerO the way FlaSh did It's more like this is why you don't expand upwards on this map and instead should expand toward 3 or 9. Z can't flank and turrets stop drops etc so easily. eh I think it could have worked, theoretically it's a much easier four gas and from there he could have crawled down towards the main. It doesn't pressure ZerO at all though and fantasy did not do a good enough or quick enough job setting up his turtle Zerg can abuse the terran's lack of mobility etc much easier though as there are way more potential places to poke at that can be vulnerable. (for example, see how easily zero dropped on tanks at high ground by double gas due to lack of turrets) When T takes 9, they are much more constricted and areas of vulnerability are much smaller.
Wait, is that high ground pod unbuildable? That would make me and Fantasy very wrong >,<
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If oov was in the crowd now, we all know what his expression would be.
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On August 17 2010 13:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 13:34 n.DieJokes wrote:
Also, I would like everyone to take note on how good and valuable ultras are vs. mech they are still terrible. The difference is that a player like Light uses his initial MM force to get map control, mines the shit out of the map and gets his expansions up. Fantasy didn't. When you're facing 30 tanks backed up by mines Ultras are fucking terrible.
Terrible? Have you been watching any of the games where the zerg beats lategame mech? Ultras have always been the key. They may not be cost-effective, but the strategy seems to be to have a strong enough economy that you can just keep throwing ultras at the Terran and wear him down. Ultras seem to be the only way to break the Terran's defense.
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10387 Posts
LOL mass ling for the win
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Canada8032 Posts
lolwut. Fantasy's screwed.
Spire morphing for zero.
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Firebats, they will roast your shit. Gogogo Fantasy - need you to win
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EPT
