Game started slow and boring, but once the action started it didn't stop till the end. Winner displayed awesome patience and multitasking ability in this.
I don't like fantasy, but he gives tournaments a needed spiciness, so we need him to advance. Screw Firefist... uhh, I don't know Grape... let Snow or Grape advance, I guess.
On June 10 2010 16:21 KizZBG wrote: Poor Grape. Hope he puts up a fight tho.
Seems like the best hope for Grape would be a winners' match between Fantasy and FireFist. The winners' and losers' matches will both take place on Match Point. If you go by the statistics then Match Point favours zerg over protoss, so it would be an uphill battle if he had to face FireFist then. Meanwhile Snow isn't very good at PvP. It could happen.
Edit: Haha, I guess Grape beat both Chavi and Shine on Match Point though. Oh well, we'll see.
I think it all depends on Snow's ability to defeat Firefist at the beginning. If he can, he is likely to beat Fantasy in the winners match and advance 2-0. Otherwise, Firefist will advance for sure. And since Snow has a terrible PvZ ( Lambs into Lions 2 article is great haha), I made predictions posted on top of this page.
Firefists economy is really lacking, which is compounded by the drone losses he suffered due to runby zealots..he needs some REALLY REALLY damn good play to win now.
On June 10 2010 17:40 Lann555 wrote: Would be kind of a disaster if this group doesn't end with Fantasy/Snow advancing. The other two are really just shrubs
Seriously, Fantasy is inconsistent ranging from awesome to fail and Snow is basically a one matchup wonder but Firefist and Grape are pretty much the bottom of the pack when it comes to progamers.
On June 10 2010 17:40 Ota Solgryn wrote: Wow.. Snow is still evolving as a player. He seems more and more likely to be the next toss front figure.
Not really, Firefist played so awful that it made Snow look like prime Bisu against some scrub. Its easy to get massive storms off when you park hydralisks and mutalisks.
Fantasy definitly messed up a little this game (not scouting 6, kinda just hanging around in th emiddle all game, bad recall defense). But Snow shows his PvT is by far the best in the game right now
On June 10 2010 18:10 PoP wrote: Snow is indeed really good at this matchup, but Fantasy's scouting was horrendous. Seriously.
I agree. I can't help but think Flash would have sensed a hidden expo about 10 minutes earlier than Fantasy did.
I mean, just because you found your opponent's proxy robo doesn't mean you've won. Fantasy got too comfortable thinking he was matching Snow base for base.
I'm surprised whenever a hidden expansion wins a game at this high of a level of play. Fantasy has time to micro 4 vultures vs. a reaver to kill a pylon but not enough time to scout the game-winning hidden expansion.
On June 10 2010 18:13 NovaTheFeared wrote: I'm surprised whenever a hidden expansion wins a game at this high of a level of play. Fantasy has time to micro 4 vultures vs. a reaver to kill a pylon but not enough time to scout the game-winning hidden expansion.
So true. That FPV, seemed to be excessive Mirco for sure. He must have been really into it.
Don't be excited too much about Snow's play in this game. Fantasy had no Mines at his main and he waited like 2 minutes before clearing second Recall. Sure, Snow is pretty good overall, but this time, he won with a single Recall (and a hidden expo that Fantasy missed somehow).
On June 10 2010 18:14 Corrupt wrote: Kk Snow won a PvT.. cut the bonjwa crap ._. It was a mistake by fanta not to put a single mine in his main.. those recalls became badass cuz f that.
I think Snow did that really pathetic recall first to clear the mines for his next massive one. A pretty smart move but still, as I said before I think Fantasy really dropped the ball in more ways than one.
I can understand Snow's hidden expansion working vs. Flash on FS because Flash had no map presence in the early game. But Fantasy had vultures flying around the map denying Snow's "3rd" at the mineral only.
Snow's PvT is excellent in all respects though, he just needs to round out his game.
Great game to watch, wonder if the outcome would be different without the recall.
On June 10 2010 18:17 agen wrote: Anyone else feel that Fantasy had the advantage at points, even after the hidden expansion? I really didn't think Snow was dictating play throughout that whole game. It looked like he was often on his back foot rather than the other way around. Awesome game though.
Anyone else feel that Fantasy had the advantage at points, even after the hidden expansion? I really didn't think Snow was dictating play throughout that whole game. It looked like he was often on his back foot rather than the other way around. Awesome game though.
I think Flash has had everyone really scared of Terran for a while now. It's nice to see something look like it "should". I'm really going to be pulling for Toss for a good while to come in BW.
On June 10 2010 18:17 agen wrote: Anyone else feel that Fantasy had the advantage at points, even after the hidden expansion? I really didn't think Snow was dictating play throughout that whole game. It looked like he was often on his back foot rather than the other way around. Awesome game though.
Fantasy had a timing from when he killed the shuttle to when the first arbiter came out. But he missed it and never got vessel.
On June 10 2010 18:17 agen wrote: Anyone else feel that Fantasy had the advantage at points, even after the hidden expansion? I really didn't think Snow was dictating play throughout that whole game. It looked like he was often on his back foot rather than the other way around. Awesome game though.
Ye, that recall sealed the deal as Fantasy was just too busy running around after that and once the carriers showed up he couldn't muster a solid defense anymore.
Hmm the lack of mines in the main makes me curious; I was really surprised when snow sent pure zealots to fantasy's fourth, as obviously that wasn't going to end up well for snow. But, around that time, that really should have been when fantasy was using his vultures to mine his base. That would be some really high level stuff if you could bait your opponent from being able to mine his base at the proper time.
i just feel that snow was all over the map that game, doing a little bit here and there, keeping fantasy busy until his carriers came out. even without the carriers, snow was really putting fantasy on the backfoot
Grape is back for more. I wonder if somewhere there is a big board with "English Nouns not yet used for ProGamers" that they just throw a dart at. + Show Spoiler +
I disagree on rating Grape bad in this game. Surely he did some glaring mistakes (losing that first shuttle, etc,), but he played very well during most portions of the game. Very clean Reaver-micro, good handling of the scourge-muta attack, constant harassment with quite a bit of damage done. He used storms sparingly and to good effect.
On June 10 2010 18:43 Aesop wrote: I disagree on rating Grape bad in this game. Surely he did some glaring mistakes (losing that first shuttle, etc,), but he played very well during most portions of the game. Very clean Reaver-micro, good handling of the scourge-muta attack, constant harassment with quite a bit of damage done. He used storms sparingly and to good effect.
Ya, the harassment let him get his expos set up which was nice.
Plus, the harassment killed twenty million drones.
On June 10 2010 18:43 Aesop wrote: I disagree on rating Grape bad in this game. Surely he did some glaring mistakes (losing that first shuttle, etc,), but he played very well during most portions of the game. Very clean Reaver-micro, good handling of the scourge-muta attack, constant harassment with quite a bit of damage done. He used storms sparingly and to good effect.
He lost 4 naked shuttles while his sairs sat on his nexus.
On June 10 2010 18:45 Alaric wrote: Wasn't fantasy prevented from emerging victorious of tiebreakers by an in base proxy gates last time ? Movie, Match Point.
On June 10 2010 18:41 arbiter_md wrote: That was a strange game, grape lost like 3 shuttles with reavers, and still was at advantage. I think we just saw a revolution here!
On June 10 2010 18:43 Aesop wrote: I disagree on rating Grape bad in this game. Surely he did some glaring mistakes (losing that first shuttle, etc,), but he played very well during most portions of the game. Very clean Reaver-micro, good handling of the scourge-muta attack, constant harassment with quite a bit of damage done. He used storms sparingly and to good effect.
He lost 4 naked shuttles while his sairs sat on his nexus.
This is exactly what I mean. People look at Shuttles that get shot down and go "oh damn, that was bad". However, you do not factor in that a) the Shuttles would have been used in an even worse fashion if they survived and did NOTHING AT ALL. b) That it forces the Zerg to multitask and defend and c) that the damage had been done.
I'd like to see the Grape's sick macro. I hear that these kids are just macro monkeys. I hope Fantasy will chill and let him mass up. I bet you he can get to 200/200 in like 15 minutes.
On June 10 2010 19:01 De4ngus wrote: Another recall. This one is mildly effective as well....
This game is weird.
It's like having your 6 year old sister have a painting-duel with Pablo Picasso, you can't really tell whose is better even though one 'paints' like garbage and has absolutely no idea what they are doing.
On June 10 2010 19:01 De4ngus wrote: Another recall. This one is mildly effective as well....
This game is weird.
It's like having your 6 year old sister have a painting-duel with Pablo Picasso, you can't really tell whose is better even though one 'paints' like garbage and has absolutely no idea what they are doing.
Even though OP got himself banned for 2 weeks in the meantime, I think we should still do these, and some mod could edit them in later, so please vote guys:
Pretty good showing from Grape I think. This entire group went sort of backwards compared to what I thought would happen but I was fairly sure it would be Fantasy and Snow. It was just a weird way to get there.
Meh, grapes pvt looks weak. Trying a dt drop when the other person already knows you have dts, combined with the fact you know he has a starport, but you don't put a goon in your shuttle is just really bad decision making. He just doesn't seem like an A team player.
I see the results have been edited into the OP by someone, so if some mod is reading this, could you please edit the polls #10153 and #10154 respectively into the last two recommended games spoilers?
On June 10 2010 19:21 machinehead.. wrote: Meh, grapes pvt looks weak. Trying a dt drop when the other person already knows you have dts, combined with the fact you know he has a starport, but you don't put a goon in your shuttle is just really bad decision making. He just doesn't seem like an A team player.
Well, he only just joined the A team. His games against zerg opponents have been ending up in his favour recently, but yeah, not much success with terrans in online matches yet. There have only been three though. Not everyone can have the kind of immediate success that Classic is enjoying.
Fantasy is lacking the 2%? When I watch him play, I can feel something is lacking...
Example, erm.,... Snow vs Fantasy. I just got a feeling he is very lost, do not know what to do. So he keep sending vulture destroy pylon al the while Snow just dragging time and waiting for decisive victory.
Snow probably thinking ah, give u pylon. I have hidden expansion that you didn't know.
When recall onto base. It seems easy recall, and fantasy handling the situation is...very lost? Very simple action? The way he moves his army to defend. Center tank waiting for orders for 2 minute before got send to base to defend? Ah...
I'm just saying that potential wise he seems pretty mediocre. Nothing like, say, best who glowed potential, due to amazing macro and style. Besides weird decision making... nothing really stands out about Grape.
On June 10 2010 19:31 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Fantasy is lacking the 2%? When I watch him play, I can feel something is lacking...
Example, erm.,... Snow vs Fantasy. I just got a feeling he is very lost, do not know what to do. So he keep sending vulture destroy pylon al the while Snow just dragging time and waiting for decisive victory.
Snow probably thinking ah, give u pylon. I have hidden expansion that you didn't know.
When recall onto base. It seems easy recall, and fantasy handling the situation is...very lost? Very simple action? The way he moves his army to defend. Center tank waiting for orders for 2 minute before got send to base to defend? Ah...
i know what you mean. When i was watching fantasy during his greatness in 2009, he was just like hurricane leveling top players with S-class strategy, A+ game controll and extreme immagination. He was in 10 winning streak, and even in his weakest matchup once he had 58% of wins.
Today he was lacking most of his traits. Ironically, IMO he played even worse in 2nd game against Grape. He played lazy style that I hate, and that style almoust killed him.
Early reavers are need it in any PvZ senario to secure your base for any kind of zerg russ an 'early' reaver dropship play need it to take out fast mineral mining units. 5 Corsair (750 minerals, 500 gass buid time 2 minuts) can take out any number of Scourges with 1 single hit, you need them anyway to secure your base from mutalisks. Later on high templars with psionic storm can be used to dropship play with some dark templars just to 'force' the other player to bring detectors for the Corsairs to kill them out.
Bonus tip: an 'early' reaver can 'force' zerg to go for Hydralisk and lurkers this move combined with the above gameplay creats a Time Window for the protoss players get advandage building more units, in this time window an attack can be deadly also (look mom no hands).
To PvT the priorities changed to High templars first.
Snow plays really good just to concetrate in the game it self only and nothig else. I hade only Flash in my mind now i have and Snow is not good even for me to put so many things in my mind.
On June 10 2010 19:31 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Fantasy is lacking the 2%? When I watch him play, I can feel something is lacking...
Example, erm.,... Snow vs Fantasy. I just got a feeling he is very lost, do not know what to do. So he keep sending vulture destroy pylon al the while Snow just dragging time and waiting for decisive victory.
Snow probably thinking ah, give u pylon. I have hidden expansion that you didn't know.
When recall onto base. It seems easy recall, and fantasy handling the situation is...very lost? Very simple action? The way he moves his army to defend. Center tank waiting for orders for 2 minute before got send to base to defend? Ah...
i know what you mean. When i was watching fantasy during his greatness in 2009, he was just like hurricane leveling top players with S-class strategy, A+ game controll and extreme immagination. Even in his weakest matchup he was in 10 winning streak, and once had 58% of wins.
Today he was lacking most of his traits. Ironically, IMO he played even worse in 2nd game against Grape. He played lazy style that I hate, and that style almoust killed him.
Yea! I remember when I just started watching starcraft progaming scene, I think he is in a final against Jaedong. Jaedong on #1 on power rank and Fantasy is top SKT T1 Terran player on power rank. So I root for him.
I remember 1 game Jaedong went very early spawning pool. Then Fantasy built bunker straight away and his scv formation is so nice >.< I am ...awe @ his micro. I am not sure what happened next, he lost Even though bunker is built but I think it got surrounded by Zergling and could not repair.
Another game he lost because marine spawn outside of wall-in .. ahh... bummer .... It is okay he lose, I still find him awesone! But now, the feeling starting to dissappear..
I am starting to see alot of ??? spawning right above his head whenever he play. So confused guy.
I think Fantasy just expected to 2-0 this group. He's really good in a PvT MU and the only zerg was Firefist... not really a powerhouse zerg. I think he's focusing more on PL right now TBH. SKT is the defending champ and if they don't make the PL playoffs, that would be a huge disappointment.
He is very cleaver makes me lol, MIND gamer, but then again we are not the ones he need to impress, i mean sometimes a 'drain' mindless tactic can win over a match. I love Snow anyway
Ps: Yo Snow I want you listen the song "Break Me Shake Me" Savage Garden hehehehe
I never thought I’d change my opinion again But you moved me in a way that I’ve never known You moved me in a way that I’ve never known
But straight away you just moved into position again You abused me in a way that I’ve never known You abused me in a way that I’ve never known
So break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone Just break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone
So you’re the kind that deals with the games in the mind Well you confuse me in a way that I’ve never known You confuse me in a way that I’ve never known
So break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone So won’t you break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone
She says, " I can help you, but what do you say?" 'Cause it's not free baby, you'll have to pay You just keep me contemplating, that your soul is slowly fading
God, don't you know that I live with a ton of regret? 'Cause I used to move you in a way that you've never known But then I accused you in a way that you've never known But you've hurt me in a way that I've never known...
Break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone So won't you break me shake me hate me take me over When the madness stops then you will be alone
Listen, baby You'll be, you'll be alone
Break me shake me hate me take me make me Fake me break me shake me hate me take me Break me
EPT![[image loading]](http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6752/flashcelebmsl.jpg)
fantasy Fighting Spirit 
Grape
FireFist![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/2a8romg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/2dvsjvc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://kontraband.se/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/clapping.gif)
It is okay he lose, I still find him awesone! But now, the feeling starting to dissappear..
