Crappy banner I made in 10 seconds until someone cool makes a cool one for R5!
2010 Shinhan Bank Proleague Round 5 Week 2 (OGN) vs. Air Force ACE vs. KT Rolster Monday, Jun 07 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Lineups will be announced before each match.
Not too long ago, during around the beginning of R4, I thought that Air Force ACE would start doing a little better... but they have pretty much haven't moved. RuBy isn't as good as I thought he was, Reach, Much... Ahh I don't know I guess I got my hopes up. While they aren't TERRIBLE... they aren't exactly a team to be scared of either.
KT is a really strong team. As their record shows. They are kinda like a OZ v2.0, new and improved. They have a player who is dominating the entire scene, except his backups are actually pretty strong and dependable. Flash will win his game, and if Stats, Violet, or fOrGG don't end it, one of them will win their match and send it to Flash ace match, which he will win. They are still the team to beat, for sure.
This map hasn't been out long, so strategies are definitely still developing, but Zerg's seem to like this map. Unfortunately, Air Force ACE doesn't have a Zerg to play, except for... ggaemo... YellOw? Nahh... they definitely won't send out a Protoss here, so they have to send a Terran. Could be any Terran, I just chose RuBy randomly.
On June 07 2010 16:47 StylishVODs wrote: Great! why is KT and Oz always playing on the same day?
The teams are paired for schedule-making purposes. You can actually tell which teams are paired because they face each other first each round (also you can figure it out just by following the patterns...)
So, KT and Oz always play on the same day, same goes for Stars and ACE, CJ and Estro, SKT1 and Khan, Hite and MBC, and STX and Wemade.
Edit: Note that this may be part of the reason why the Flash/JD potential rematch has happened right after their finals each time. Since the league schedules have been coinciding with 2 rounds of PL, it just worked out that way.
Violet with tons of cannons and probes blocking up his nat, going to be perfectly fine. Yellow not even trying to break him, instead opting for lair tech off 2base.
Solid defense from Violet... it looks beautiful. Three cannons and two lots with some good building placement. YellOw not trying to do anything, instead teching on two bases. Hydralisks are out, maybe a 2hatch hydra bust incoming?
Brilliant build for this map, taking advantage of the really thin wall there and the hydras ability to protect the slow overlords while they dropped in the main.
A+ build this game. Infinite mindgames. Hydra den timed like 2hat lurker, memories of lurker drops against Leta and Bisu, but for Violet, Kong only needs hydra/ling. Amazing.
Ouch, Violet careless with one of his few remaining units (corsair) flying it into three hydras trying to kill an overlord. YellOw using hydras to attack nat! Probes pulled from gas since cannons can't cover! FAST DROP BEHIND MINERAL LINE! GG from Violet! LOL YellOw.
Stranger: Just munchies anyways? Stranger: Oh it's 2:22 Stranger: Am I supposed to make a wish Stranger: or is that reserved for 11:11 You: No. You: Quick. You: Make a wish for Hong Jin Ho. You: Before it gets to 2:23. You: This is really important. Stranger: Okay You: Did you make the wish? Stranger: Yeah You: Okay. You: I just hope it works.
We'll have Protosses from ACE next to deal with KT Terrans.
Another manner pylon!!! This one traps 3+ probes. Stats failing in freeing them from the prison for a while, now has it down to just 1 but lost a good bit of mining time.
Stats takes down the Nexus with ease while expanding himself, and now has Much contained in his main. Shouldn't be too hard for Stats to take this from here.
On June 07 2010 18:34 QuothTheRaven wrote: Violet takes down the Nexus with ease while expanding himself, and now has Much contained in his main. Shouldn't be too hard for Violet to take this from here.
It's Stats :p
Stats with maphack, scouts out Much's ferrying attempt.
Rofl GoRush snipes two drones with some intrepid lings. Lol GoRush leaving Overlord alive. Lol GoRush attacking natural hatch with more zerglings, then losing them to FireFist's zerglings. Lol GoRush sniping another drone. Lol GoRush sniping yet another drone!
Last time they played on this map Flash absolutely WRECKED Ruby in one of the hardest TvT slaughters I've ever seen. Expecting Ruby to try to pull some funny stuff.
Flash's vults find Ruby's, and force them to retreat.
Dropship heading down the bottom of the map, but Flash already has turrets in position and an ebay floating for sight, AND he has units there to clean it up.
Maphack star sense. Or maybe he just saw the control tower and no wraith cloak and figured a drop was incoming.
Ruby manages to secure his 3rd base--for now. Flash pushing it at the moment.
1/0 ups finished for Flash, who is still sitting comfortably on 3 bases and is now sieged in a position to deny mineral mining from Ruby's 3rd--no, wait, Ruby's tanks manage to hold the position!
Flash taking his 3rd gas at top left now, and pushing in again on the center of the map--going to break the tank line this time around. No, wait, Ruby targets Flash's tanks and takes them out!!
Ruby forced to lift his cc from his min only, floating it towards 12.
Now ruby sending 2 dropships to flash's 4th. 1 gets sniped by goliaths on the way. the secod drops a tank which is attacked instantly and is lifted back.
Flash's goliaths snipe a loaded dropship as it heads toward top-left. Other dropship isn't able to do any damage as Flash has the multitasking to be tracking it with units while pushing with his own forces against Ruby's line in the center. Amazing multitasking.
Other dropship tries to drop top left, but is driven off by vultures. Flash breaks tank line in the middle with vults and mines! And tanks and gols, yes.
On June 07 2010 19:28 darktreb wrote: Reading the LR alone you might think this is actually a sort of close game, when really Flash won about 10 minutes ago.
Shhh let us live in the moment, it's quite fun and we have nothing else to do.
On June 07 2010 19:30 QuothTheRaven wrote: Ruby's really in trouble now. Down a base, down army, down in position.
The lead of getting off an unharassed 14CC and a faster 3rd has finally been worn down and overtaken by Flash's superior control.
Flash took a faster third.
Oh, did he? I thought Ruby's was up earlier but Flash managed to push and deny Ruby's 3rd a lot, making up for the difference. I guess I just didn't see Flash's 3rd timing properly.
Ugh, I really hope KT doesn't send ForGG and lose this proleague match to ACE. They don't have as large of a lead over 2nd place as they used to; can't afford to risk throwing away matches like that.
Does Ruby have something special planned for once? He has literally gotten destroyed 3 times in a row by Flash now (in the last month and a half). There's no way he wins straight up.
On June 07 2010 19:35 teamsolid wrote: Lol... another rematch yawn... Flash gonna rape this kid easy. Gonna go sleep
Man I remember the last time Flash was supposed to win and people went to sleep...
its a tvt, time to sleep anyway
except its like 8.30pm here, so its study time instead :C
You never know, Flash might try to cheese and lose in 5-10 minutes like he did in the ace match vs. Fantasy. Or, more likely, Ruby might try to cheese and lose quickly.
On June 07 2010 19:35 teamsolid wrote: Lol... another rematch yawn... Flash gonna rape this kid easy. Gonna go sleep
Man I remember the last time Flash was supposed to win and people went to sleep...
its a tvt, time to sleep anyway
except its like 8.30pm here, so its study time instead :C
You never know, Flash might try to cheese and lose in 5-10 minutes like he did in the ace match vs. Fantasy. Or, more likely, Ruby might try to cheese and lose quickly.
Flash wasn't cheesing, it was a forward rax... which he was going to use to scout since he was doing 1rax FE I believe.
On June 07 2010 19:35 teamsolid wrote: Lol... another rematch yawn... Flash gonna rape this kid easy. Gonna go sleep
Man I remember the last time Flash was supposed to win and people went to sleep...
its a tvt, time to sleep anyway
except its like 8.30pm here, so its study time instead :C
You never know, Flash might try to cheese and lose in 5-10 minutes like he did in the ace match vs. Fantasy. Or, more likely, Ruby might try to cheese and lose quickly.
You mean the game that flash went forward rax and fantasy went double proxy fac?
Oh my god wait is RuBy winning? Two dropships out for RuBy with more making, I believe. Tank defense saves all tanks from Flash's mines! Flash loses his own!
On June 07 2010 19:56 alffla wrote: oh shit is ruby acutalyl winning?!?!?
I love your typos alffla :3 WRAITHS for RuBy.
They get the dropship! But the four vults are down! FLASH'S MAIN BEING DROPPED AGAIN. Expo evacuated as tanks are able to hit SCVs from the cliff! This drop doesn't do too much, though it did waste some mining time :3
Vultures dropped at 9! This is going to cost RuBy all his SCVs there :O RuBy going for 6 with dropships! Backs off due to turrets, mines, and Flash's forces.
Seeing Flash get sniped in ace all the time is amazingly annoying. KT should persist with sending out one of violet forgg and stats to make them viable aces so as to prevent snipes like these.
Well played by Ruby. Taking the grand line is so incredibly important on this map, as seen in games like these and forgg vs. skyhigh. Maybe Flash can get an insight into this after this loss?
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
On June 07 2010 20:10 Zona wrote: Flash has been letting his opponents mass far more dropships in a lot of his recent games - or at least the ones I've watched.
Either that or it gets to BCs and he loses. Rofl I'm glad we didn't b-word Flash.
You know you guys who are saying "inb4 flash fanboys blah blah blah". Do you realize youre as bad as those fanboys who whine and whine? You couldve not post and not start a flamewar? Seriously this is what makes LR threads so shitty.
On June 07 2010 20:12 Shatter wrote: Ruby doesn't have a good record but he always plays strong players/has to play ace match so it's not entirely his fault.
That's one way of looking at things. Instead of wondering "Why is Ruby always sent for ACE when his record sucks" one looks at it as "Ruby's record sucks because he is always chosen for ACE matches against other teams' top players".
On June 07 2010 20:10 Zona wrote: Flash has been letting his opponents mass far more dropships in a lot of his recent games - or at least the ones I've watched.
It was partly a byproduct of the game situations. Against both Hiya and Ruby he was at a disadvantage early game which caused him to want to produce as many units as possible (thus not spending on Dropships).
Against Hiya, he ended up deciding to just transition straight into BCs with an advantage (which Flash had slowly pulled back), which isn't a bad idea but Hiya made one really smart surgical strike and managed to take the game.
However, against Ruby he was just so strapped for cash the whole game that he never had the chance to get any Dropship presence, which isn't going to help on a huge 4 player map like Grand Line. Flash probably figured he couldn't hold his island expo and never tried for it, but man could he have used a 3rd gas in this game (which he didn't get until the very end!).
The common theme is that Flash has been getting a huge TvT disadvantage early for a variety of reasons (Fantasy cheesed him out directly, Hiya had a really good timing, and Ruby 14cc'd followed by holding his own in every micro battle). This has prevented him from playing his standard Dropship heavy map control style that he's so good at. Regardless, when you're as good as Flash (literally the best vT player of all time by far) there's no excuse for losing 3 straight TvT ace matches. People are going to take chances to beat him ... he's gotta figure out how to keep this from happening so much.
On June 07 2010 20:13 iLoveKT wrote: You know you guys who are saying "inb4 flash fanboys blah blah blah". Do you realize youre as bad as those fanboys who whine and whine? You couldve not post and not start a flamewar? Seriously this is what makes LR threads so shitty.
On June 07 2010 20:13 iLoveKT wrote: You know you guys who are saying "inb4 flash fanboys blah blah blah". Do you realize youre as bad as those fanboys who whine and whine? You couldve not post and not start a flamewar? Seriously this is what makes LR threads so shitty.
Speak for yourself.
oh yeah I forgot. how else can everyone get to 10k posts.
On June 07 2010 20:12 Shatter wrote: Ruby doesn't have a good record but he always plays strong players/has to play ace match so it's not entirely his fault.
That's one way of looking at things. Instead of wondering "Why is Ruby always sent for ACE when his record sucks" one looks at it as "Ruby's record sucks because he is always chosen for ACE matches against other teams' top players".
Well Ruby is still the best player in ACE in my opinion. They wouldn't send him constantly if he wasn't doing well in practices.
On June 07 2010 20:10 Zona wrote: Flash has been letting his opponents mass far more dropships in a lot of his recent games - or at least the ones I've watched.
Either that or it gets to BCs and he loses. Rofl I'm glad we didn't b-word Flash.
Yeah, because Savior's ZvZ was so impeccable when he was bonjwa.
Oh wait.
Flash isn't bonjwa, but stuff like this isn't really why. Is that cute enough for you?
Flash must practice his TvT some more! it has been looking abit questionable the last 10 games or so.. anyway GG's. everyone goes 14 cc against him except when they bbs
On June 07 2010 20:17 StylishVODs wrote: Flash must practice his TvT some more! it has been looking abit questionable the last 10 games or so.. anyway GG's. everyone goes 14 cc against him except when they bbs
Yeah it's pretty tough when people are either going to try to cheese you out directly or scout for proxy Barracks and 14cc. Not sure what the best way to handle this is but he needs to figure it out.
meh, predictability is the reason for flash's losses. Ruby knew that he couldn't 14cc because of the bbs thread and abused that.
It also doesn't help that they were able to predict with 100% certainty that flash would be the ace. They need to send violet out sometimes to throw them off.
Didn't the last KT vs Ace game also go with ACE almost winning but losing the ACE game to flash? They totally redeemed themselves from that. Hopefully more practice time for ace to show what they can do.
On June 07 2010 20:10 POWEROUTAGE wrote: Seeing Flash get sniped in ace all the time is amazingly annoying. KT should persist with sending out one of violet forgg and stats to make them viable aces so as to prevent snipes like these.
When that happens, people complain that Flash wasn't sent out.
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
I'm confused. If Ruby can get away with 14cc'ing just by scouting the centre for proxies, why can't Flash?
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
Big issue with Flash is that he's completely predictable but a lot of the time still manages to win because he macros better than you and generally makes better decisions most of the time. Its a common theme in nearly all of his TvTs this year; opponent takes massive risk, Flash nearly loses the game but just plays a lot better and then manages to win.
On June 07 2010 20:17 StylishVODs wrote: Flash must practice his TvT some more! it has been looking abit questionable the last 10 games or so.. anyway GG's. everyone goes 14 cc against him except when they bbs
Practice isn't going to help Flash. He's very good, probably the very best, at the matchup but he's fallen into the same ditch his TvP was once in. He's just too predictable and the opponent knows if he sees Flash do so and so, he can do whatever and get away with it.
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
I'm confused. If Ruby can get away with 14cc'ing just by scouting the centre for proxies, why can't Flash?
Because Ruby can just assume Flash will do the exact same two opening builds over and over if there isn't a proxy.
On June 07 2010 20:10 POWEROUTAGE wrote: Seeing Flash get sniped in ace all the time is amazingly annoying. KT should persist with sending out one of violet forgg and stats to make them viable aces so as to prevent snipes like these.
When that happens, people complain that Flash wasn't sent out.
you shouldve realized by now that those who rages everytime flash isnt send for ace is not fans of KT since they are just watching the games for entertainment value. ask every die hard KT fan and you'll here the same answer: MORE CHINTOSS!
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
I'm confused. If Ruby can get away with 14cc'ing just by scouting the centre for proxies, why can't Flash?
Well scouting the center isn't foolproof, especially on a big map like Grand Line with lots of buildable proxy spots. But Ruby is willing to take a chance that if there's a proxy it's at the center, whereas Flash isn't (and shouldn't) be willing to simply take that chance. If players have a brilliant proxy cheese planned, they're saving it for him, and he knows it.
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
On June 07 2010 20:22 Subwoofermate wrote: Big issue with Flash is that he's completely predictable but a lot of the time still manages to win because he macros better than you and generally makes better decisions most of the time. Its a common theme in nearly all of his TvTs this year.
Honestly Flash isn't THAT predictable in TvT. If you've watched all his games he's played a lot of different styles this year (such as his last game on MP against Ruby in round 4, not the one today, where he Vulture-drop Wraithed Ruby to death immediately). The MVP series is another example where he mixed it up.
But yeah, he's fairly predictable. You know he's not going to BBS for sure. You know he's probably going to play for his late game strengths. And the thing is, you're not preparing to beat Flash in a bo99, just a bo1. So you can take a chance and assume he'll play the expected style on a map and if he doesn't you get owned but who cares everyone expected it (Snow on FS was another good example of this ... had Flash played a different style that game it probably would have been very different, and Flash does indeed have several FS styles but one most common one which Snow guessed correctly for). On the other hand, if you're right you beat Flash and it's a big deal!
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
Well actually. I think this issue of losing more then you should in your mirror matchup is because of playing too many mirror games. That way opponents have so many resources for studying your game. I think this is also what happened with jd when he was struggling with his zvz after the zvz finalfest season.
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
I'm confused. If Ruby can get away with 14cc'ing just by scouting the centre for proxies, why can't Flash?
Well scouting the center isn't foolproof, especially on a big map like Grand Line with lots of buildable proxy spots. But Ruby is willing to take a chance that if there's a proxy it's at the center, whereas Flash isn't (and shouldn't) be willing to simply take that chance. If players have a brilliant proxy cheese planned, they're saving it for him, and he knows it.
On June 07 2010 20:10 POWEROUTAGE wrote: Seeing Flash get sniped in ace all the time is amazingly annoying. KT should persist with sending out one of violet forgg and stats to make them viable aces so as to prevent snipes like these.
When that happens, people complain that Flash wasn't sent out.
True that, but a team's obligation is to win first above appeasing the fans. Sending Flash out every single time is very predictable and we can all see how this arrangement has worked out. Especially this game where it is clear that Flash lost to the better prepared player who seemingly only practiced on this map to snipe Flash. Ruby wasn't even 10% as good on match point. Sending stats/forgg/violet out occasionally would remedy this a little IMO.
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
Dumbest post yet.
why? the results speak for themselves
He's a poor bo5 player? Since 2008 he's lost bo5's to the following players:
- Jaedong - forGG - Effort
Each time he lost a bo5, his opponent was the league winner.
And how can you say a guy is "incapable of playing critical matches" when he's won leagues the last two seasons? Simply retarded.
On June 07 2010 20:28 iLoveKT wrote: Well actually. I think this issue of losing more then you should in your mirror matchup is because of playing too many mirror games. That way opponents have so many resources for studying your game. I think this is also what happened with jd when he was struggling with his zvz after the zvz finalfest season.
yes i think it can be the reason too, I remember that after so many wins vs Z, Jae also started to lose a lot
On June 07 2010 20:22 Subwoofermate wrote: Big issue with Flash is that he's completely predictable but a lot of the time still manages to win because he macros better than you and generally makes better decisions most of the time. Its a common theme in nearly all of his TvTs this year.
Honestly Flash isn't THAT predictable in TvT. If you've watched all his games he's played a lot of different styles this year (such as his last game on MP against Ruby in round 4, not the one today, where he Vulture-drop Wraithed Ruby to death immediately). The MVP series is another example where he mixed it up.
But yeah, he's fairly predictable. You know he's not going to BBS for sure. You know he's probably going to play for his late game strengths. And the thing is, you're not preparing to beat Flash in a bo99, just a bo1. So you can take a chance and assume he'll play the expected style on a map and if he doesn't you get owned but who cares everyone expected it (Snow on FS was another good example of this ... had Flash played a different style that game it probably would have been very different, and Flash does indeed have several FS styles but one most common one which Snow guessed correctly for). On the other hand, if you're right you beat Flash and it's a big deal!
Series matches are a lot different to proleague matches. There's so many games and Flash basically has to prepare for all for them.
Flash knows his late game is miles better than everyone else so he'll do whatever macro orientated build to get into this position (there are only so few macro orientated builds to choose from however). I think I can count on a single hand the amount of times he's attempted some sort of two factory build or tried some Forgg-like build order.
The person saying Flash is a bad series player is dumb as hell since a Bo1 is no way comparable to a series match: Flash actually mixes it up in a series match.
1. You roll a dice and guess what Flash is gonna do. 2. You either: 2.1 Get it right -> you beat Flash -> You feel like God. 2.2 Get it wrong -> you get owned -> You walk to your teammates and everyone shrugs because it was motherfucking Flash.
Rofl you guys are making too much of this. Ruby 14cc'd and got an army advantage. He used that to secure the only accessible third gas on the map with a ground army. With a third gas you get dropships, and with that Flash had literally no reasonable way to expand to a gas location.
Combination of Bo advantage compounded on map architecture on Ruby playing moderately well results in a win. No one in the world was coming back from that.
Amusingly, Flash probably would've won if he spawned at either of the bottom locations.
On June 07 2010 20:34 nayumi wrote: 1. You roll a dice and guess what Flash is gonna do. 2. You either: 2.1 Get it right -> you beat Flash -> You feel like God. 2.2 Get it wrong -> you get owned -> You walk to your teammates and everyone shrugs because it was motherfucking Flash.
This applies for non-Jaedong only though.
Thats kinda harsh on Ruby though, and the other people who beat him recently. 14CC gave an advantage yes but he still had the mechanics to hold the advantage (especially early game taking the line) and take it to a win. Snow and Hiya both outplayed him too. Fantasy was the only real pure roll of the dice.
On June 07 2010 20:34 nayumi wrote: 1. You roll a dice and guess what Flash is gonna do. 2. You either: 2.1 Get it right -> you beat Flash -> You feel like God. 2.2 Get it wrong -> you get owned -> You walk to your teammates and everyone shrugs because it was motherfucking Flash.
This applies for non-Jaedong only though.
Honestly while I don't like seeing Flash lose, I love that players are embracing this philosophy. It's really ridiculous when someone tries to beat him straight up and fails. It's like, are you even trying?
Taking chances the way his opponents have been is exactly the right way to attack the problem of beating a superior (to everyone but Jaedong) player like Flash.
It's cool to see that people are doing this, because it also puts a lot of stress on Flash's game, as the whole "I can't 14cc but if I proxy rax and it gets scouted I lose (see Fantasy game)" dilemma has shown. It's always fun to see the best players tested like this.
On June 07 2010 20:22 Subwoofermate wrote: Big issue with Flash is that he's completely predictable but a lot of the time still manages to win because he macros better than you and generally makes better decisions most of the time. Its a common theme in nearly all of his TvTs this year; opponent takes massive risk, Flash nearly loses the game but just plays a lot better and then manages to win.
On June 07 2010 20:17 StylishVODs wrote: Flash must practice his TvT some more! it has been looking abit questionable the last 10 games or so.. anyway GG's. everyone goes 14 cc against him except when they bbs
Practice isn't going to help Flash. He's very good, probably the very best, at the matchup but he's fallen into the same ditch his TvP was once in. He's just too predictable and the opponent knows if he sees Flash do so and so, he can do whatever and get away with it.
On June 07 2010 20:09 J1.au wrote: Flash should've expected the 14cc. Disappointed.
What should he have done differently? Ruby even checked the center for proxies, so unless you're going to go all-in on a map like Grand Line TvT to counter 14cc, there's not much to do other than 14cc yourself (and there's no way he could live down losing to a BBS by doing that).
I'm confused. If Ruby can get away with 14cc'ing just by scouting the centre for proxies, why can't Flash?
Because Ruby can just assume Flash will do the exact same two opening builds over and over if there isn't a proxy.
"Practice isn't going to help Flash" Not true. This game we saw that Ruby had a better understanding of the map than Flash did and abused it. Ruby took the grandline and took positional advantage and won with superior dropship count; if Flash knew the importance of the grandline he wouldn't have ceded control of it that easily and allowed ruby the easy 3rd gas. In fact, this insight isn't new, Skyhigh has also used the same strategy(against forgg) and won. If Flash knew, this would've been preventable. Not the first time Flash didn't understand the map enough, as seen from Midas vs Flash in msl qualifiers where midas said the same thing.
And I wouldn't say Flash is predictable, he cheeses just the right amount of times to throw opponents off.
On June 07 2010 20:34 nayumi wrote: 1. You roll a dice and guess what Flash is gonna do. 2. You either: 2.1 Get it right -> you beat Flash -> You feel like God. 2.2 Get it wrong -> you get owned -> You walk to your teammates and everyone shrugs because it was motherfucking Flash.
This applies for non-Jaedong only though.
Thats kinda harsh on Ruby though, and the other people who beat him recently. 14CC gave an advantage yes but he still had the mechanics to hold the advantage (especially early game taking the line) and take it to a win. Snow and Hiya both outplayed him too. Fantasy was the only real pure roll of the dice.
Not saying that Snow didn't play well, but he started off from a huge BO advantage too. Hiya is the only player to beat Flash from an even start recently in Proleague.
KT has become too predictable. Every team knows Flash will bet sent out for ace, and they prepare accordingly. Even though Flash probably wants to play every ace, I really feel KT has to start sending other players. It will be better for the team in the long run.
On June 07 2010 20:36 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rofl you guys are making too much of this. Ruby 14cc'd and got an army advantage. He used that to secure the only accessible third gas on the map with a ground army. With a third gas you get dropships, and with that Flash had literally no reasonable way to expand to a gas location.
Combination of Bo advantage compounded on map architecture on Ruby playing moderately well results in a win. No one in the world was coming back from that.
Amusingly, Flash probably would've won if he spawned at either of the bottom locations.
I agree that it isn't a huge deal. Part of Flash's mega streaks lately have been his good luck (obviously skill matters the most but he's had some pretty good luck over the past 8 months), and lately he's gotten some bad draws.
However, I think he definitely could have played this game better, even with the disadvantage. Seemed like he had no plan for what to do in the given spawn position situation if he loses out on the middle third gas. I mean, he had a plan (expand downward) but it wasn't exactly a great plan.
Personally my theory is that forGG has been playing the bulk of the games on this map (as he's been sent out a lot) but now that Flash has no individual leagues for a month KT has moved him onto all the maps. Yeah I know Flash has played some Grand Line games before but not many TvT's, and a map like Grand Line is so heavily dependent on positions (literally a completely different game based on any of the three possible position combinations) that every bit of experience helps.
On June 07 2010 20:36 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rofl you guys are making too much of this. Ruby 14cc'd and got an army advantage. He used that to secure the only accessible third gas on the map with a ground army. With a third gas you get dropships, and with that Flash had literally no reasonable way to expand to a gas location.
Combination of Bo advantage compounded on map architecture on Ruby playing moderately well results in a win. No one in the world was coming back from that.
Amusingly, Flash probably would've won if he spawned at either of the bottom locations.
I agree that it isn't a huge deal. Part of Flash's mega streaks lately have been his good luck (obviously skill matters the most but he's had some pretty good luck over the past 8 months), and lately he's gotten some bad draws.
However, I think he definitely could have played this game better, even with the disadvantage. Seemed like he had no plan for what to do in the given spawn position situation if he loses out on the middle third gas. I mean, he had a plan (expand downward) but it wasn't exactly a great plan.
Personally my theory is that forGG has been playing the bulk of the games on this map (as he's been sent out a lot) but now that Flash has no individual leagues for a month KT has moved him onto all the maps. Yeah I know Flash has played some Grand Line games before but not many TvT's, and a map like Grand Line is so heavily dependent on positions (literally a completely different game based on any of the three possible position combinations) that every bit of experience helps.
I can say with confidence that your theory is correct. ForGG has been sent out on this map A LOT.
If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
And I fail to see how Ruby was there to "snipe" Flash, when they had just played the game before and Flash beat him.
Flash knew exactly what he had to do. He kept engaging to try to carve out a niche where he could expand to the bottom areas and take a gas -- he was almost successful but it happened too late in the game, where Ruby had 1-2 gases more than him for 10 minutes. The problem with that is Ruby wasn't retarded. He put units on the enormous and endless high ground position (this was part of my map architecture comment). Flash did nothing particularly wrong -- hell his crisis management on Ruby's drops was impeccable. You just can't win a TvT on 2 gases.
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
And I fail to see how Ruby was there to "snipe" Flash, when they had just played the game before and Flash beat him.
You are really clueless about TvT.
"hey guys 14cc doesn't get more units than fac CC"
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
And I fail to see how Ruby was there to "snipe" Flash, when they had just played the game before and Flash beat him.
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
Ruby didn't get his second gas for a while and built more factories early on. He had quite a bit more vultures than Flash, or at least was able to reinforce with vultures faster. I think this is why Flash felt that he had to back down closer to his base instead of taking the grand line.
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
I agree that Ruby wasn't THAT ahead from the 14cc. But I don't think too many excuses are being made (yeah there are a few, but that's natural, for the most part it's been pretty levelheaded discussion) - Flash was definitely outplayed/outplanned this game and losing 4 straight aces (3 straight TvT) is hard to excuse no matter what. He needs to step up but at the same time I don't think anyone's that worried about him overall.
Funny thing is Flash absolutely CRUSHED Ruby a month ago on the MP/Grand Line combination and they just met on them again. This time was a very different story though. Impressive stuff by Ruby.
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
And I fail to see how Ruby was there to "snipe" Flash, when they had just played the game before and Flash beat him.
You are really clueless about TvT.
You're a blind fanboy.
You think 14cc gets equal production to fac CC. I make no qualms about Flash's losses -- I never have and never will. I did not disparage Effort for winning, or Jaedong for Nate, or even Fantasy for the amusing cheese win.
But you're absolutely clueless if you think 14cc doesn't get more vults and tanks than fac cc.
On June 07 2010 20:42 J1.au wrote: KT has become too predictable. Every team knows Flash will bet sent out for ace, and they prepare accordingly. Even though Flash probably wants to play every ace, I really feel KT has to start sending other players. It will be better for the team in the long run.
This sort of predictability isn't that bad though, basically because it's Flash. The other team needs either someone who can beat him straight up (can probably count on one hand the number of players that can do that with any sort of decent winrate), or have some awesome cheese or other gimmick build planned, and you'd still have a large number of games where it's scouted, Flash defends correctly, or the other player doesn't execute. Wins from that have got to be higher than what you'd get from occasionally sending out Stats etc
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
Dumbest post yet.
why? the results speak for themselves
He's a poor bo5 player? Since 2008 he's lost bo5's to the following players:
- Jaedong - forGG - Effort
Each time he lost a bo5, his opponent was the league winner.
And how can you say a guy is "incapable of playing critical matches" when he's won leagues the last two seasons? Simply retarded.
ok, well maybe i am way too harsh on him, (dont like him), but still this is what i read in teamliquid article before OSL and MSL , the article is somewhere , but i wasn't able to find it to support my idea, sorry
On June 07 2010 20:45 foxmeep wrote: If any of you actually watched the game Ruby was hardly at an advantage from his 14cc. Flash had more tanks out and close to an equal number of vultures. Ruby just got the better of Flash in several encounters. THAT is how Ruby got map control, not from his 14 cc.
People need to stop making excuses for their heroes. JD is my fav player, and he simply got owned in the MSL finals, no excuses there... just a combination of his poor play and Flash's great play.
And I fail to see how Ruby was there to "snipe" Flash, when they had just played the game before and Flash beat him.
Nobody is saying Ruby got map control from the 14cc. And neither can you deny than 14cc vs rax-cc puts Ruby at an advantage.
Nobody here is making an excuse for FlaSh's loss either. And you can tell Ruby practiced to snipe FlaSh on this map. If anything, his poor performance in the previous map shows this. His play was far more polished, purposeful and just all round better in the last game.
On June 07 2010 20:47 TwoToneTerran wrote: Flash knew exactly what he had to do. He kept engaging to try to carve out a niche where he could expand to the bottom areas and take a gas -- he was almost successful but it happened too late in the game, where Ruby had 1-2 gases more than him for 10 minutes. The problem with that is Ruby wasn't retarded. He put units on the enormous and endless high ground position (this was part of my map architecture comment). Flash did nothing particularly wrong -- hell his crisis management on Ruby's drops was impeccable. You just can't win a TvT on 2 gases.
Flash ceding 12oclock that easily was what cost him. 3rd gas is incredibly important on this map like you mentioned, and letting Ruby secure it and mine it with relatively little interference is a mistake in itself.
It was partly due to the BO loss true, but IMO with greater dropship count and drops into 12 to harrass could have worked better. Flash let it run for large periods of time without doing anything to harrass it. Better turreting in his main could've helped him too.
Coming back from a massive disadvantage is not to make turrets in your main (from drops that did practically nothing but hurt Ruby) and suiciding to try to harass. There's a reason the only time Flash really harassed Ruby's 12 was when he had his dropship: Tanks on highground. Can't do shit to em.
On June 07 2010 20:07 Zona wrote: KT bows without even grabbing flash from the booth. and no one goes into the booth to fetch him like other teams do when their player stays inside...
On June 07 2010 21:05 TwoToneTerran wrote: Coming back from a massive disadvantage is not to make turrets in your main (from drops that did practically nothing but hurt Ruby) and suiciding to try to harass. There's a reason the only time Flash really harassed Ruby's 12 was when he had his dropship: Tanks on highground. Can't do shit to em.
Hence my point about Flash not making enough dropships to make drops @ 12. Also, Ruby's drops at surface level did nothing much, however these drops were not futile as the threat of the drops were almost as effective as the actual drops. Flash actually had to follow those dropships with significant numbers of forces; better turreting would decrease the amount units needed for such a task and those forces would have been better used in the said drops. Flash simply didn't use dropships well enough.
On June 07 2010 21:52 nozaro33 wrote: omg wtf is happening? 2 ACE MATCH LOSSES IN A ROW????
This is his fourth ace match loss in a row actually.
omg... I was just referring to this season... NOOO!!!!
Fantasy, Snow, now Ruby. Whos the 4th?
Hiya... Well I think it's okay that Flash loses these matches instead of winning everything and losing when it really matters. Don' t worry Flash I'll always cheer for you! <3
I wanted to see how badly ACE lost, because I assume they just lose to everyone but the 2nd to last team maybe, but now my jaw is hanging open in amazement. I need to see this match.
On June 07 2010 20:07 Zona wrote: KT bows without even grabbing flash from the booth. and no one goes into the booth to fetch him like other teams do when their player stays inside...
wow...
Yeah i didnt understand that either, it was the same when he lost to snow... Maybe his teammates know him better, and after such a loss he is so angry, that they dont dare enter his booth?
I woke up this morning, checked the results, screamed "WHAT"! Woke up roommates.
On June 07 2010 20:07 Megalisk wrote: inb4 flash fans complain about 14cc
Inb4 flash fans complain about 14 CC then some other people complain about MSL finals as a retort, then flash fans say that was mind games and not cheese.
On June 07 2010 21:52 nozaro33 wrote: omg wtf is happening? 2 ACE MATCH LOSSES IN A ROW????
This is his fourth ace match loss in a row actually.
omg... I was just referring to this season... NOOO!!!!
Fantasy, Snow, now Ruby. Whos the 4th?
Hiya... Well I think it's okay that Flash loses these matches instead of winning everything and losing when it really matters. Don' t worry Flash I'll always cheer for you! <3
On June 07 2010 23:39 Ikonn wrote: Still two wins up on STX, no worries
It's not an issue of making the playoffs. It's an issue of Flash doing terribly in Ace Matches and your players continuing to lose games they shouldn't.
Lol @ all the broodwar analysts claiming Flash is too predictable etc...Come on theres no need to try to extrapolate some kind of nonsense from your collective asses. Flash cant win every game and he lost to 2 strong Terrans boohoo. Theres nothing more to derive from the situation, Ruby had a bo adv and played strong through out the entire game either building or maintaining on that advantage and thus won. Ruby's televised record may not be that good, but he certainly is a a good player with a chance to beat pretty much anyone on a good day. I mean he was on the team with Light and Sea for years..puttiing a good game out isnt terribly shocking, he is a progamer after all just as much as Flash is a fallible human.
On June 08 2010 00:17 mog87 wrote: Lol @ all the broodwar analysts claiming Flash is too predictable etc...Come on theres no need to try to extrapolate some kind of nonsense from your collective asses. Flash cant win every game and he lost to 2 strong Terrans boohoo. Theres nothing more to derive from the situation, Ruby had a bo adv and played strong through out the entire game either building or maintaining on that advantage and thus won. Ruby's televised record may not be that good, but he certainly is a a good player with a chance to beat pretty much anyone on a good day. I mean he was on the team with Light and Sea for years..puttiing a good game out isnt terribly shocking, he is a progamer after all just as much as Flash is a fallible human.
Strong terran? You know that ruby had the 3:d lowest vT ELO in TLPD before this game (something like 1913). Though I must say, it looked like he played up alot in that game.
On June 08 2010 00:17 mog87 wrote: Lol @ all the broodwar analysts claiming Flash is too predictable etc...Come on theres no need to try to extrapolate some kind of nonsense from your collective asses. Flash cant win every game and he lost to 2 strong Terrans boohoo. Theres nothing more to derive from the situation, Ruby had a bo adv and played strong through out the entire game either building or maintaining on that advantage and thus won. Ruby's televised record may not be that good, but he certainly is a a good player with a chance to beat pretty much anyone on a good day. I mean he was on the team with Light and Sea for years..puttiing a good game out isnt terribly shocking, he is a progamer after all just as much as Flash is a fallible human.
Strong terran? You know that ruby had the 3:d lowest vT ELO in TLPD before this game (something like 1913). Though I must say, it looked like he played up alot in that game.
Pretty much anyone is capable of playing an incredibly great game. Scrubs like Yellow win games all the times these days, and even ChRh was able to take a game off Bisu when he was in his prime. It happens. Flash lost to Hyun when we all thought he was unstoppable, and everyone knows Hyun is lol.
And gogogo flash fanboys, create an alternate universe in which he won!
Elroi Sweden. June 07 2010 23:30. Posts 347 PM Profile Quote # Darn it, im refreshing every 10 mins for the interview XD Also lol at all the flash fans complaining about 14cc cheese, hilarious.
Seems like we have some underaged poster here. Really man, just relax, you hate is so pointless and obvious that it make my eyes hurt. Your Flash-hate feels pathetic as he even doesn't acknowledged about your existence, try to be more positive and mature.
On June 07 2010 23:39 Ikonn wrote: Still two wins up on STX, no worries
It's not an issue of making the playoffs. It's an issue of Flash doing terribly in Ace Matches and your players continuing to lose games they shouldn't.
I wouldn't say he's doing terribly, but 4 ace losses in row is worrying, yes. That's why I want KT to get that first place in regular season because then we'd only have to worry about one opponent in the playoffs
It's not technically 4 consecutive ace losses, because Flash did win once between Fantasy and Snow. But that was against ACE so it doesn't really count
On June 07 2010 20:36 TwoToneTerran wrote: Combination of Bo advantage compounded on map architecture on Ruby playing moderately well results in a win. No one in the world was coming back from that.
LOL... it's funny, if you swap Jaedong and Flash on the past few pages you get this forum a few months ago.
On June 07 2010 20:36 TwoToneTerran wrote: Combination of Bo advantage compounded on map architecture on Ruby playing moderately well results in a win. No one in the world was coming back from that.
LOL... it's funny, if you swap Jaedong and Flash on the past few pages you get this forum a few months ago.
ZvZ usually gives no shit about map architecture, atleast not to the extent TvT does.
Hahaha, oh god. There are several times during the game when the camera goes to Flash and he just looks like "Are you ****ing kidding me? Is this really happening?" Then in his booth afterwards he definitely takes his time on the way out.
On June 07 2010 20:13 iLoveKT wrote: You know you guys who are saying "inb4 flash fanboys blah blah blah". Do you realize youre as bad as those fanboys who whine and whine? You couldve not post and not start a flamewar? Seriously this is what makes LR threads so shitty.
The Flash anti-fans wouldn't exist if it wasn't for annoying Flash fanboys. It's not like they are people who hate flash. They are people who hate his simpering fanboys, the ones all with KT icons despite only caring about one player. The ones who claim to like starcraft but extract no personality or context out of the scene and just suck the cock of whoever is playing the best right now.
You must be completely unfamiliar with sports. It's those kinds of people that keeps any entertainment industry thriving. You may find it annoying but two wrongs don't make a right, and it's hypocritical for people to respond thusly.
That said, I'm a huge KT and Flash fan and it saddens me that KT has the worst zergs in PL now. =(
On June 08 2010 09:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: You must be completely unfamiliar with sports. It's those kinds of people that keeps any entertainment industry thriving. You may find it annoying but two wrongs don't make a right, and it's hypocritical for people to respond thusly.
That said, I'm a huge KT and Flash fan and it saddens me that KT has the worst zergs in PL now. =(
SKT passed the torch. Now KT just needs to find someone else to infect.
On June 08 2010 09:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: You must be completely unfamiliar with sports. It's those kinds of people that keeps any entertainment industry thriving. You may find it annoying but two wrongs don't make a right, and it's hypocritical for people to respond thusly.
That said, I'm a huge KT and Flash fan and it saddens me that KT has the worst zergs in PL now. =(
I think Flash must have crushed all the spirit out of the KTzergs in his practice games.
On June 07 2010 20:13 iLoveKT wrote: You know you guys who are saying "inb4 flash fanboys blah blah blah". Do you realize youre as bad as those fanboys who whine and whine? You couldve not post and not start a flamewar? Seriously this is what makes LR threads so shitty.
The Flash anti-fans wouldn't exist if it wasn't for annoying Flash fanboys. It's not like they are people who hate flash. They are people who hate his simpering fanboys, the ones all with KT icons despite only caring about one player. The ones who claim to like starcraft but extract no personality or context out of the scene and just suck the cock of whoever is playing the best right now.
I think it's the pressure that kills Flash in the ace matches. He's still young and playing in the ace match means the WHOLE TEAM depends on you.
I've been on a team before and being the person that decides whether or not the team goes forward in the playoffs is tough. There's just so much pressure on you.
That's why I think even Flash lost to Ruby, even though he's not that good. He's also been losing the past few ace matches, (last 3 iirc besides this one) so it'll really affect him mentally. Keep in mind, he's still young, so he's kinda prone to these things.
On June 08 2010 12:47 K3Nyy wrote: I think it's the pressure that kills Flash in the ace matches. He's still young and playing in the ace match means the WHOLE TEAM depends on you.
I've been on a team before and being the person that decides whether or not the team goes forward in the playoffs is tough. There's just so much pressure on you.
That's why I think even Flash lost to Ruby, even though he's not that good. He's also been losing the past few ace matches, (last 3 iirc besides this one) so it'll really affect him mentally. Keep in mind, he's still young, so he's kinda prone to these things.
Did you watch the match/follow progaming? This "kid" has been carrying the team for 3 years. He's not new to high pressure situations, and he even had a psychological insight regarding his state of mind recently (lolol enlightenment). That said, he's not totally immune, but this isn't a good point to bring up. He knows what is expected of him and he's THE veteran of the team in spite of his age. The team wouldn't have sent him out for ace if he didn't have a proper mental state for it. And Ruby DID play well in the match contrary to what others may have been saying.
On June 07 2010 20:10 POWEROUTAGE wrote: Seeing Flash get sniped in ace all the time is amazingly annoying. KT should persist with sending out one of violet forgg and stats to make them viable aces so as to prevent snipes like these.
All the other players on KT are garbage. KT should always send out Flash, even if other players from the opposing teams have prepared for him. Flash win % for Ace match will always be higher than sending out KT scrubs, even if other teams have prepared for Flash.
On June 08 2010 15:08 jalstar wrote: thing is, you can do the exact same thing with jaedong, hope this helps
I love Jaedong. Imo he is a clear bonjwa, wtf look at his titles. Only thing is his prime was abit shadowed by bisu/flash/stork but still...
The point I'm trying to prove is past bonjwas did lose games here and there. So that statement is reaaaaly stupid, thus the video.
On June 08 2010 09:14 Stratos_speAr wrote:Are you saying that Ruby can compare to July, Chojja, Nada, Oov, etc... In terms of level of opponent faced?
no... i'd more compare him to yooi, saint, control, cloud etc. point is: Ruby started of with 14cc, played a solid game and won. That doesn't merrit such absurd comments this thread has gotten.
Some people can't get it out of their head that Flash's winratio is actually better than any of the bonjwas so if you are going to say he got no shot at bonjwa atleast don't say it's because he lost a game.
On June 08 2010 09:33 TwoToneTerran wrote: You must be completely unfamiliar with sports. It's those kinds of people that keeps any entertainment industry thriving. You may find it annoying but two wrongs don't make a right, and it's hypocritical for people to respond thusly.
That said, I'm a huge KT and Flash fan and it saddens me that KT has the worst zergs in PL now. =(
Excluding Luxury, KT zergs have won 13 games and lost 25 this season. Miraculously, until now, fOrGG, Violet, Stats and Tempest have scraped together just enough wins to make up for that.
On June 08 2010 12:47 K3Nyy wrote: I think it's the pressure that kills Flash in the ace matches. He's still young and playing in the ace match means the WHOLE TEAM depends on you.
I've been on a team before and being the person that decides whether or not the team goes forward in the playoffs is tough. There's just so much pressure on you.
That's why I think even Flash lost to Ruby, even though he's not that good. He's also been losing the past few ace matches, (last 3 iirc besides this one) so it'll really affect him mentally. Keep in mind, he's still young, so he's kinda prone to these things.
I dont believe you sry. He has played 1000^1000 ace matches, and have like 1000^1000^1000 games played... I think he is over-confident, not nervous.... winning 90% of your games in the past x months, and ure nervous cause ure playing a guy with 14-34 tvt stats?? Naaay not going to happen. He deserved the slap in his face, hopefully he will wake up!
On June 08 2010 12:47 K3Nyy wrote: I think it's the pressure that kills Flash in the ace matches. He's still young and playing in the ace match means the WHOLE TEAM depends on you.
I've been on a team before and being the person that decides whether or not the team goes forward in the playoffs is tough. There's just so much pressure on you.
That's why I think even Flash lost to Ruby, even though he's not that good. He's also been losing the past few ace matches, (last 3 iirc besides this one) so it'll really affect him mentally. Keep in mind, he's still young, so he's kinda prone to these things.
On June 09 2010 00:49 Emon_ wrote: In the Violet vs. Yellow game - How do you deal with such an early drop?
Make more cannons in the main and stop teching?
Building cannons in your main doesn't sound good. You should scout it in time, put down some gateways, and build a whole bunch of units. If you don't scout it... well, both Bisu and Violet can attest that you're very likely to be screwed, no matter how well you try to defend it without units.
You can see Flash superiority all over the game the new move that we seen in here is after Flash won the battle in 6 o clock posision Ruby didn't follow by a drop in there to take that posision back (he 'left' the expo there to Flash) he did a center push in the up middle that was the only time we seen Flash forces outplayed running back to his base, Ruby could take a defending posision and hold that advantage a really nice move worth to focus. Ruby didn't managged to hold that posision but Also the 6 o clock expo 'saved' that way from this move.
Bonus tip : The running back was telling us that Flash didn't hade enough forces to hold these posisions and maybe not the time to build more (exposed) there was that we seen the gg If ruby also was "washed up" couse he lost many battles from Flash exellent play we will never know but that move 'won' the game, 10nx Ruby.
Ps: A Flash vod boring ? your jumps to conclusion are boring. Think again, i never seen a better player my judgment on that is based: Flash managged to move his forces from 6 o clock to 12 o clock lost posision by running and recapture this posision!! He also was playing with less expos!! Spear me the details Point is cya in the next Flash game.
On June 07 2010 20:21 letian wrote: This is why some say Flash is a poor bo5 player incapable of playing critical matches even when he's on the top, I'm happy for Ruby!)))
Dumbest post yet.
why? the results speak for themselves
yes, they do. This wasn't a bo5, that much is pretty clear to me loll
On June 08 2010 09:14 Stratos_speAr wrote:Are you saying that Ruby can compare to July, Chojja, Nada, Oov, etc... In terms of level of opponent faced?
no... i'd more compare him to yooi, saint, control, cloud etc. point is: Ruby started of with 14cc, played a solid game and won. That doesn't merrit such absurd comments this thread has gotten.
Some people can't get it out of their head that Flash's winratio is actually better than any of the bonjwas so if you are going to say he got no shot at bonjwa atleast don't say it's because he lost a game.
He's not a Bonjwa because of the controversy. Even if he does do better than previous Bonjwas, it's expected now. Being a Bonjwa isn't about the stats - it's about the atmosphere, and the previous ones brought that feeling of "This guy WILL win, he is THE best" whereas Jaedong, Flash, etc... still have chances to lose here and there and they aren't seen by everyone as completely and utterly dominant.
It's more about the perception and less about the statistics.
On June 09 2010 07:37 CROrens wrote: oh man oh man... at jon747's video of the ace match.... 12:10 - 12:20 thats probably the sickest shit i ever saw in SC
I'd like to see FPV of Ruby, I wonder if he controlled that or just fluked it, lol.
And to the "BO win" people, watch 8:20 of that same video. Flash has the greater army and concedes control of the centre. At 9:00 mins they clash in the middle, 3 tanks each and Flash has 8 vults to Ruby's 7. Outproduced by 14CC you say?
Rewatching that game, Ruby played completely flawlessly. There are several times where he does something really small, like patroll attack an uninjured tank with a small group of vultures as they ran by, that let his own tanks win the tank battle with minimal shots etc. The ridiculous mine-targetting at 12:10 is obviously the flashiest bit of micro from this game, but the overall play was absolutely brilliant.
I find it interesting that even Jaedong has said that Ruby has some of the absolute best micro in the game - it's just that Ruby has nerve issues and has never been able to consistently play to his full potential. I'd love to see him fully overcome his fears and play as well as he occasionally demonstrates, because a Ruby occasionally puts out completely S-tier games like this one.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/PLR5.jpg?t=1275900644)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/12.jpg)
vs.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/Maps/th_Fortress.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/Maps/th_PolarisRhapsody.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/Maps/th_JudgmentDay.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/Maps/th_MatchPoint.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/Maps/th_GrandLineSE.jpg)
)
RuBy isn't as good as I thought he was, 
Reach, 
HoeJJa![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/326.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/611.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/8.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/424.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/112.jpg)
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)
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![[image loading]](http://www.deadbored.net/qt3/omg_cat.gif)
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![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/photo/1275911279_1.jpg)
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