|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win.
Except that  EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage.
But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans.
|
Lomo's abilities only activate in revenge of the fall of his manlover Jaedong. It is a beautiful and powerful relationship -- should someone beat Jaedong, Lomo is granted super powers directly afterwards and has a 99% chance to win.
|
On February 11 2010 01:33 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win. Except that EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage. But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans.
????
Do you even play ZvZ? I am not giving excuses or anything, but if you ever played ZvZ you would know that hat at nat>>>hat at main once both are up, especially at cross spots. No you dont get mutas out faster, that depends on pool/gas timing and not on hatch timing. How in the world is a nat hatch with 2gas worse than a 2hat in main once both hatches are up. Just try playing overgas/hat in main vs 12hat or 12pool expo and see how difficult it is.
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On February 11 2010 01:33 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win. Except that EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage. But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans.
This is incorrect.
If you hatch in base and opponent hatches at natural + hatch timings are the same, if you don't end the game in the next 1-2 minutes after your mutas hatch, it's GG.
Zerg that hatch in main is essentially FORCED to attack and fight at opponent's base which is a HUGE disadvantage.
I'm not sure why Jaedong is being massochistic lately and going in base 2nd hatch.... He had the lings necessary to fight off Effort and claim a natural hatchery.
Jaedong was able to win vs Crazy Hydra in the same exact situation, but Crazy Hydra isn't that good.
Good zergs like Effort on the other hand will make you pay dearly for it.
|
On February 11 2010 01:48 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 01:33 tree.hugger wrote:On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win. Except that EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage. But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans. This is incorrect. If you hatch in base and opponent hatches at natural + hatch timings are the same, if you don't end the game in the next 1-2 minutes after your mutas hatch, it's GG. Zerg that hatch in main is essentially FORCED to attack and fight at opponent's base which is a HUGE disadvantage. I'm not sure why Jaedong is being massochistic lately and going in base 2nd hatch.... He had the lings necessary to fight off Effort and claim a natural hatchery. Jaedong was able to win vs Crazy Hydra in the same exact situation, but Crazy Hydra isn't that good. Good zergs like Effort on the other hand will make you pay dearly for it.
actually this is incorrect as well
crazy hydra is a very godd zvz'er, probably top 5-10 in the scene
|
On February 11 2010 02:55 lyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 01:48 Tien wrote:On February 11 2010 01:33 tree.hugger wrote:On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win. Except that EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage. But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans. This is incorrect. If you hatch in base and opponent hatches at natural + hatch timings are the same, if you don't end the game in the next 1-2 minutes after your mutas hatch, it's GG. Zerg that hatch in main is essentially FORCED to attack and fight at opponent's base which is a HUGE disadvantage. I'm not sure why Jaedong is being massochistic lately and going in base 2nd hatch.... He had the lings necessary to fight off Effort and claim a natural hatchery. Jaedong was able to win vs Crazy Hydra in the same exact situation, but Crazy Hydra isn't that good. Good zergs like Effort on the other hand will make you pay dearly for it. actually this is incorrect as well crazy hydra is a very godd zvz'er, probably top 5-10 in the scene
Jaedong,Lux,Kwanro,Calm,Effort,Yarnc,Zero,Shine,Hyuk andd..... lets put crazy hydra arbitrarily as no10? Where did you get that from? The only impressive game I've seen from him was his game vs JD in the MST qualifiers and a 2-6 record is not impressive at all.
What Tien said is definitely correct, if both players place their hatches at relatively the same time the guy that puts his hat at the nat is definitely at a huge advantage and will win except if the other guy kills him straight up with mutas or lings(which is really hard on cross maps because timings give you even less of advantage in zvz). Oh and CH would've probably won that game if he actually managed to pop 6 mutas right away but he built a couple of scourge due to mineral lack and JD microd like a god and CH's nat mutas/drones kept dying instantly, if CH got 6 mutas even JD would be fighting a insanely tough uphill battle even though his mutas were slightly faster. I am just asking you guys to play overgas/hat at main vs 12hat at nat and see how hard it is to play that out vs a guy who is near your skill level.
|
CH isn't close to top 5 zvz wtf
His game against Jaedong in the MSL had me impressed though, I will admit.
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Effort dissected that game vs Jaedong like a professional surgeon.
Forced Jaedong to attack him with even strength mutas. Having defender's advantage it's hard to lose.
Immediately engaging Jaedong less than 30 seconds after Jaedong retreats. Effort knows his gas advantage has already kicked in.
Being a Jaedong fan it was hard to watch. But being a zerg player it was beautiful textbook ZvZ.
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
I watched the game over again. WTF was Jaedong thinking with that 2nd hatch in main build.
He had zero pressure from Effort. Effort instead of building lings built a sunken.
With zero effort lings outside his base, Jaedong goes for hatch in main, every single other Jaedong game he would go hatch at natural.
JAEDONG!! ARGH THERE IS A REASON WHY 2 HATCH IN MAIN IS AN EXTINCT ZvZ BUILD.
|
|
|
man effort should have all-killed
really disappointed by his loss vs Lomo
1. effort didn't move lings into mnm before a-moving, so lings attacked foremost marines first
2. effort chased mnm with lings to a ramp that could be blocked by medics, losing too many lings to mnm
as much as i wanted CJ to win, i admit effort's play was unimpressive and he deserved that loss for playing so terribly
|
On February 11 2010 08:15 Nal_rAwr wrote:
man effort should have all-killed
really disappointed by his loss vs Lomo
1. effort didn't move lings into mnm before a-moving, so lings attacked foremost marines first
2. effort chased mnm with lings to a ramp that could be blocked by medics, losing too many lings to mnm
as much as i wanted CJ to win, i admit effort's play was unimpressive and he deserved that loss for playing so terribly
This is just a bad season for CJ, I'm sure they will recover next season, they have the players to do it!
|
On February 11 2010 01:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Lomo's abilities only activate in revenge of the fall of his manlover Jaedong. It is a beautiful and powerful relationship -- should someone beat Jaedong, Lomo is granted super powers directly afterwards and has a 99% chance to win.
lol
|
On February 11 2010 01:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Lomo's abilities only activate in revenge of the fall of his manlover Jaedong. It is a beautiful and powerful relationship -- should someone beat Jaedong, Lomo is granted super powers directly afterwards and has a 99% chance to win.
That you Flash?? You really wish Jaedong was a homo for you as he was for Lomo don't you? 
|
On February 11 2010 01:48 Tien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 01:33 tree.hugger wrote:On February 10 2010 16:16 QuakerOats wrote:
Effort also got a BO win vs JD, and Hydra vs Lomo was kind of a cheesy BO win too. If you look at it that way everything is a BO win. Except that EffOrt expanded to his nat, while Jaedong expanded inbase, which is technically a BO advantage for JD, he'll get more mutas, and he'll get them out faster. If, of course, that first attack is somehow blocked, then EffOrt does have an advantage. But seriously, EffOrt needs to stop losing to protoss, and needs to stop losing to bad terrans. This is incorrect. If you hatch in base and opponent hatches at natural + hatch timings are the same, if you don't end the game in the next 1-2 minutes after your mutas hatch, it's GG. Zerg that hatch in main is essentially FORCED to attack and fight at opponent's base which is a HUGE disadvantage. I'm not sure why Jaedong is being massochistic lately and going in base 2nd hatch.... He had the lings necessary to fight off Effort and claim a natural hatchery. Jaedong was able to win vs Crazy Hydra in the same exact situation, but Crazy Hydra isn't that good. Good zergs like Effort on the other hand will make you pay dearly for it.
He did claim in his interview that he got the timings wrong. And he blamed lack of practice for it. I am sure he's figured a powerful hat in base build that beats expanding to nat every time, but this time just failed to execute it.
|
so... effort sniped jaedong only to be sniped by lomo?
|
Man, are you people retarded? overgas HAS to build the second hatchery inside the base. Anyone who thinks overwise are completely clueless, especially the guy that thought Jaedong's build is outdated. ROFL have you people not been watching ZvZ at all the past year?
And Jaedong started off in a build ADVANTAGE. Overgas > overpool. If Effort went 12pool expo then yeah, he would have had a build advantage except he went fucking overpool into lair first with a sunk for no reason. Did you people even watch the game?
My god.
|
People seem to of forgotten that Oz won this series...
and that no matter how great a win vs JD is, losing to Lomo takes away all of that glory plus some. Ffs, that guy hasn't won a public game in forever. I thought he quit! At least JD beat his scrub terran <3.
|
On February 11 2010 00:48 AlwaysGG wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 17:07 Vasoline73 wrote:
Can't believe CJ lost after taking Jaedong out without him even 2 killing. :/ totally agree - - effort skyhigh movie need bring out more wins
yes, movie need to bring out more wins, but wait -
movie didn't even play one game?!/>!!
why didn't CJ put movie in at one of the four games, wasn't there ever a good chance to do so?
seriously, WTF!
|
On February 13 2010 07:02 eci wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 00:48 AlwaysGG wrote:On February 10 2010 17:07 Vasoline73 wrote:
Can't believe CJ lost after taking Jaedong out without him even 2 killing. :/ totally agree - - effort skyhigh movie need bring out more wins yes, movie need to bring out more wins, but wait - movie didn't even play one game?!/>!! why didn't CJ put movie in at one of the four games, wasn't there ever a good chance to do so? seriously, WTF!
Jaedong
5-3 vs movie
68% ZvP
15 game win streak
Killer
2-0 vs movie
71% ZvP
Hiya
1-0 vs movie
65% ZvP
Who do you throw Movie out against? Lomo? Movie is an average TvPer so even a game against Lomo is a toss up.
OZ RAPES PROTOSS
and Ironically all their protosses are shit
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
