[SWL] Hwaseung OZ vs eSTRO - Page 37

On February 08 2010 04:56 moopie wrote:


This comes to a matter of definition (and thus the disagreement), but look at it this way: Some people consider the term 'outplayed' to mean the same (or similar) as 'outsmarted'. In SC, that would happen when a player sees what his opponent is doing and completely counters that build, thus dominating the match. JD vs Kal in MSL semi's was like that, and as a Kal fan it was quite sad to see, but he was outplayed on every level, his builds entirely countered, and was made to look like a noob.

Now in this match, both players played pretty standard zvz, and they both commited into an all-or-nothing ling runby. A few seconds later, JD changed his mind (for whatever reason) and turned his lings around, spire went down for him, hyvaa kept his base and the rest is history. Now, was hyvaa outsmarting him? I wouldn't say so, because it wasn't him 'reacting' to JD's build, he sent his lings to attack JD's main, and JD sent his lings to attack hyvaa's main. After that, it was JD himself that made the decision/mistake and lost the game.



The reason I don't consider the term 'outplayed' to simply mean 'played better' (which includes not making as many mistakes or as critical) is because that is already stated by who won the match. if player A wins over player B, he played better than him (either by outplaying him, or by player B making a blunder, by luck, etc etc). Simply stating that every match that a player wins he outplayed his opponent is redundant.

On February 08 2010 10:38 Ecrilon wrote:
In this scenario, what you're saying is that outplay means "to win without a great advantage in build order." Jaedong blundered in the game. Hyvaa took advantage of that enormous blunder and won. That's just an example of winning. Whenever a person wins without it being mostly luck, they certainly "outplayed" their opponent. But if to outplay is to mean something more, you can't simply take that route. People make mistakes in games all the time, large and small. These give corresponding disadvantages. Simply seeing an error and exploiting it is not enough to warrant the word "outplay." I propose that we take outplay to mean that you actively create opportunities for your opponent to make an error, that you force an error, or that you anticipate what error your opponent will make before he makes it. That way, you are presumably thinking one step ahead of your opponent, not simply responding to his mistakes.

By the way...outsmart and outplay are different words, yes. But outplaying occurs in games, outsmarting occurs everywhere. They could easily be the same in the context of Starcraft.

On February 08 2010 12:32 Lebesgue wrote:
People discussing whether a player got "outplayed" or "outsmarted" or just "defeated". It has to be the case that Jaedong lost a game...

Every freaking time the same stuff...

Anyway, good job estro. A bit surprised that hyvaa managed to take down Jaedong but that's ZvZ. Anything can happen.