Killer sending his units piecemeal to get eaten by the siege tanks... but he still will probably come out on top. Upmagic lost wayy too much in that failed attack
On February 07 2010 13:45 Megalisk wrote: Looks like Upmagic's gimmicky build didn't work
It would've worked if he had proper defence at his nat(i.e not a huge gaping hole where killer can attack from higher ground) and stopped losing a billion rines to every stop lurker attempt + the 4 wraiths I felt were useless.
Come to think of it, that's got to be the first ZvT I've seen in months that didn't have one single mutalisk in it... (excluding all the games of 4-pool, BBS, or Calm getting bunker rushed).
Opens with mutas this time. I think he should stick with lurkers seeing as how he just flew a bunch of mutas over a group of m&ms. They're damaged, but none died.
On February 07 2010 14:11 samachking wrote: LOL No hive no lings 4hat only GJ killer
#2 so lol 3 drones mining at his third lol he made so many lings and just wasted them with his lurks didnt even take his muts to support the attack oh god
wow, really with not nearly enough vultures in front of his tanks for a huge attack, clumps his tanks and attacks uphill, and still slaughters everything.
On February 07 2010 14:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote: God, I always feel really bad for Oz fans. Hite toss, Woongjin terrans, and even Luxury are far more useful than Oz toss... + Show Spoiler +
Love you, Lux!
I like how you mentioned Luxury as if he's his own race.
On February 07 2010 14:46 GTR wrote: they should start using mell or sky[kal].
I actually heard Mell was kind of good (second-hand info). But I think I heard the same thing about PerfectMan before they started using him all the time...
On February 07 2010 14:47 Garnet wrote: TvP revolutionist?
To be fair, although he has looked incredibly dominant, Really has mostly been winning against scrub protosses. I'd love to see him play a Bo5 against Stork.
On February 07 2010 14:47 Garnet wrote: TvP revolutionist?
To be fair, although he has looked incredibly dominant, Really has mostly been winning against scrub protosses. I'd love to see him play a Bo5 against Stork.
Well the thing about this build that it need TONS of detections tools, you might run out of Scans in the early stage but later on, you can simply place a turret to detect the OBs, later on the Science Vessel. I would love it for Really to try it on a non-matchpoint map.
lul, nvrm first 6 lings b line for it. First vulture kills all 6, buys time for sunk. Two vultures try and run into JD's main, donglings block and the sunken shuts it down
On February 07 2010 15:10 Cpadolf wrote: lol, Really did a great job at being gay, but fortunately Jaedong is only homo for lomo and thus resisted beautifully.
On February 07 2010 15:16 Mortality wrote: THIS JUST IN: Jaedong cheats at this game! His ling automatically come with adrenal glands upgrade. It's the only explanation.
On February 07 2010 15:16 Mortality wrote: THIS JUST IN: Jaedong cheats at this game! His ling automatically come with adrenal glands upgrade. It's the only explanation.
On February 07 2010 15:16 Mortality wrote: THIS JUST IN: Jaedong cheats at this game! His ling automatically come with adrenal glands upgrade. It's the only explanation.
On February 07 2010 15:12 JIJIyO wrote: Really should have just rushed in with those 4 vults instead of getting the drone at the nat. 3 vults would have been in JD's main instead of 2.
This would have made a HUGE difference. And leaving that group of marines without medics outisde was =/.
On February 07 2010 15:17 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On February 07 2010 15:16 Mortality wrote: THIS JUST IN: Jaedong cheats at this game! His ling automatically come with adrenal glands upgrade. It's the only explanation.
I hear his scourge do splash damage too. o.O
and his muta's glaive bounces 5 times
I heard it was seven, and the damage never decreases. Jaedong's Ultralisks also have the Cleave ability. Blizzard decided this was too imbalanced to give to him alone and therefore gave all Ultralisks the ability in Starcraft 2.
I was so nervous after JD chose a pool first build against a delayed rush build and Really got crossed positions so JD scouted the fact as late as possible. Yeah, I'm just plugging JD ^ ^ Wheeee.
Wow........ This series is really gonna go on to show how monstrous Really AND Jaedong are. Really was just a step above Killer and Hiya. And then Really comes up with an amazing cheese, that seems to bring JD to his heels quite a few times, but JD's micro and decision making was just sublime.
Wasn't paying attention to exact bo, but it's they're both just going fast lair, both pumping lings, no one taking natural yet or making second hatch in base yet.
On February 07 2010 15:17 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
On February 07 2010 15:16 Mortality wrote: THIS JUST IN: Jaedong cheats at this game! His ling automatically come with adrenal glands upgrade. It's the only explanation.
I hear his scourge do splash damage too. o.O
and his muta's glaive bounces 5 times
I heard it was seven, and the damage never decreases. Jaedong's Ultralisks also have the Cleave ability. Blizzard decided this was too imbalanced to give to him alone and therefore gave all Ultralisks the ability in Starcraft 2.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
you saying jaedong was wrong? wat
hyvaa had 2 lings guarding his ramp and jd's lings were like right by hyvaa's nat
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
you're completely right if only jaedong won then he would've won what an insightful observation!
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
so what you're trying to say is
hyvaa didn't outplay jaedong because hyvaa outplayed jaedong?
WOWOWOWOWOW TOTALLY intense games today... upmagic vs hiya was mehhh but all the other ones had either all in builds or some other awesomeness to it :D
On February 07 2010 15:39 QuakerOats wrote: How does JD display such amazing decision making and reaction against Really but make such a noob mistake against hyvaa.
jd dosen't have that aura of invincibility anymore. his AT field has been broken by calm in msl
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
so what you're trying to say is
hyvaa didn't outplay jaedong because hyvaa outplayed jaedong?
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
so what you're trying to say is
hyvaa didn't outplay jaedong because hyvaa outplayed jaedong?
Hyvaa didn't outplay Jaedong, he just played better than Jaedong and beat him. Apparently if you're a fanboy there's a difference?... + Show Spoiler +
I really hate your recommended game system. The other thread's one too sucks.
It says spoiler free but it isn't, and doesn't really recommend games so much as give a short blurb - maybe people wanna know which one is recommended without actually knowing why/what happens cos it spoils the moment when you're waiting for it to come.
On February 07 2010 15:42 iCCup.deL wrote: I really hate your recommended game system. The other thread's one too sucks.
It says spoiler free but it isn't, and doesn't really recommend games so much as give a short blurb - maybe people wanna know which one is recommended without actually knowing why/what happens cos it spoils the moment when you're waiting for it to come.
should i just list which games are recommended without giving any brief description?
i just do what other ppl do so i don't know which one ppl prefer
On February 07 2010 15:42 iCCup.deL wrote: I really hate your recommended game system. The other thread's one too sucks.
It says spoiler free but it isn't, and doesn't really recommend games so much as give a short blurb - maybe people wanna know which one is recommended without actually knowing why/what happens cos it spoils the moment when you're waiting for it to come.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't like this version recommended games system. All I really want is what games should be watched (for example: 2, 5, 6). I never got the point of nesting spoilers when I have to look through all of them to find out what games to watch.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
On February 07 2010 15:42 iCCup.deL wrote: I really hate your recommended game system. The other thread's one too sucks.
It says spoiler free but it isn't, and doesn't really recommend games so much as give a short blurb - maybe people wanna know which one is recommended without actually knowing why/what happens cos it spoils the moment when you're waiting for it to come.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't like this version recommended games system. All I really want is what games should be watched (for example: 2, 5, 6). I never got the point of nesting spoilers when I have to look through all of them to find out what games to watch.
Yeah I agree... I've been watching more live so it doesn't really matter too much but it is slightly annoying to have to just be spoiled about anything other than how many games the sets go.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
lol
anyone else rofl? it's just so fkin obvious when someone else does it.
you know what, really outplayed himself cus he went for the runby instead of the bust. jaedong won but he totally did not outplayed really, nope
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
That banner does JD more justice now. Being a Flash Fangirl, I even think its sad how many KT fans flock to OZ games just to see JD lose and post how badly he fails. It's so sad.. yet It feels so good wahahaha. xD oh well its sad fun for us -_-
On February 07 2010 16:29 OpticalShot wrote: I don't know whether to cheer for hyvaa or not. This guy is so consistently inconsistent that I just don't know to expect...
hyvaa can do some really cool/sick plays a lot, but yea he's just so bad a lot of the time. Remember how about a year ago it looked like for a little bit that he was going to be THE next big Zerg over zero/effort/calm? why the fuck cant this guy do good in normal matches lol
LOL. Cannot believe that JD got sniped by Hyvaa after taking out Really. Oz fans must've been thinking 3-kill with both of Estro's Terrans out of the way.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
Thats how i see it too. Hyvaa's play was nothing special, jd made a huge mistake (that is generally unlike his regular zvz) that cost him the game. hyvaa won, fair and square, but i wouldn't say he was outplayed. now an example would be the msl finals match 1 and 2, where jd and flash outsmarted each other's builds.
Guemchi, Jaehoon and FBH distrubted the skill level of the universe, SC makes no sense anymore, the massive number of upsets is to be blamed on those three.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
On February 07 2010 20:38 FirstBorn wrote: I'm really liking eSTRO's performance as of late, they've always had players with so much potential but other teams used to simply walk them over.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
well i see it like... 3 levels of 'playing'
suckplaying playing outplaying
so jaedong playing in the 2nd state of simply "playing" would be like jaedong level of ownage play which should usually own hyvaa
but if for some reason hyvaa plays like a god then he would be outplaying jaedong.
so in today's game hyvaa was simply playing (being normal hyvaa) while jaedong was suckplaying
i know hyvaa still owned jaedong but in this case he really didn't do anything exceptional it was just a mistake on jaedongs part right.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
well i see it like... 3 levels of 'playing'
suckplaying playing outplaying
so jaedong playing in the 2nd state of simply "playing" would be like jaedong level of ownage play which should usually own hyvaa
but if for some reason hyvaa plays like a god then he would be outplaying jaedong.
so in today's game hyvaa was simply playing (being normal hyvaa) while jaedong was suckplaying
i know hyvaa still owned jaedong but in this case he really didn't do anything exceptional it was just a mistake on jaedongs part right.
The player that made fewer mistakes outplayed the one that made more of them. Is it that hard to comprehend?
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
well i see it like... 3 levels of 'playing'
suckplaying playing outplaying
so jaedong playing in the 2nd state of simply "playing" would be like jaedong level of ownage play which should usually own hyvaa
but if for some reason hyvaa plays like a god then he would be outplaying jaedong.
so in today's game hyvaa was simply playing (being normal hyvaa) while jaedong was suckplaying
i know hyvaa still owned jaedong but in this case he really didn't do anything exceptional it was just a mistake on jaedongs part right.
The player that made fewer mistakes outplayed the one that made more of them. Is it that hard to comprehend?
JD seemed unstoppable against Really, then fell apart against Hyvaa shortly after =/. Gah, I hate how Hwaseung OZ's performance is directly proportional to the Dong's. Well actually that could be a good thing at times... but not this time TT.
From my stream topic: I'm not exactly sure what happened to the stream earlier, when I was streaming WL from MBC... This is because it was about 7am and my body decided it was time to sleep. I'm sorry if this caused an inconvenient blackout or mass spam in the chat.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
This comes to a matter of definition (and thus the disagreement), but look at it this way: Some people consider the term 'outplayed' to mean the same (or similar) as 'outsmarted'. In SC, that would happen when a player sees what his opponent is doing and completely counters that build, thus dominating the match. JD vs Kal in MSL semi's was like that, and as a Kal fan it was quite sad to see, but he was outplayed on every level, his builds entirely countered, and was made to look like a noob.
Now in this match, both players played pretty standard zvz, and they both commited into an all-or-nothing ling runby. A few seconds later, JD changed his mind (for whatever reason) and turned his lings around, spire went down for him, hyvaa kept his base and the rest is history. Now, was hyvaa outsmarting him? I wouldn't say so, because it wasn't him 'reacting' to JD's build, he sent his lings to attack JD's main, and JD sent his lings to attack hyvaa's main. After that, it was JD himself that made the decision/mistake and lost the game.
The reason I don't consider the term 'outplayed' to simply mean 'played better' (which includes not making as many mistakes or as critical) is because that is already stated by who won the match. if player A wins over player B, he played better than him (either by outplaying him, or by player B making a blunder, by luck, etc etc). Simply stating that every match that a player wins he outplayed his opponent is redundant.
On February 07 2010 15:33 Holgerius wrote: Hyvaa outplayed JD, holy fuck. :O
outplay my ass, jd passed his lings and could easily enter main with all of them, hyvva would be forced to move back.but instead jd decidecs to chase his lings -_-
Decision making is a part of playing SC you know?
Yes, and hyvaa did win, but he didn't "outplay" jd. jd outplayed himself. :/
This. Jaedong's bad decision killed him, not any brilliant play on hyvaa's part.
JD can't get outplayed by others, he always outplays himself. When people make bad choices it's not called outplayed /sarcasm. Look what im trying to say is even if Hyvaa didn't do anything stellar, he still made better choices than JD as simple as it is, thus outplayed (not stellar outplayed but outplayed none the less)
We just have different definitions of outplayed. Yes, hyvaa deserved the win because he played more solidly than JD, but I don't consider it outplaying unless he was actively outsmarting JD. It's just a matter of opinion on what constitutes "outplaying". There's really no point in arguing anymore, I just would rather this not be called "fanboyism", because I would use the same standard with any other player...
You do realize how stupid this sounds Hyvaa played more solid than jaedong but didn't out play him...
so according to this logic a player who wins a game using great mechanics and standard gameplay didn't outplay his opponent just because he didn't use anything clever or "Outsmart" his opponent don't get me wrong I love jaedong as much as the next Oz (Jaedong) fanboy but this just sounds so contradicting that its rediculous t.t
This comes to a matter of definition (and thus the disagreement), but look at it this way: Some people consider the term 'outplayed' to mean the same (or similar) as 'outsmarted'. In SC, that would happen when a player sees what his opponent is doing and completely counters that build, thus dominating the match. JD vs Kal in MSL semi's was like that, and as a Kal fan it was quite sad to see, but he was outplayed on every level, his builds entirely countered, and was made to look like a noob.
Now in this match, both players played pretty standard zvz, and they both commited into an all-or-nothing ling runby. A few seconds later, JD changed his mind (for whatever reason) and turned his lings around, spire went down for him, hyvaa kept his base and the rest is history. Now, was hyvaa outsmarting him? I wouldn't say so, because it wasn't him 'reacting' to JD's build, he sent his lings to attack JD's main, and JD sent his lings to attack hyvaa's main. After that, it was JD himself that made the decision/mistake and lost the game.
The reason I don't consider the term 'outplayed' to simply mean 'played better' (which includes not making as many mistakes or as critical) is because that is already stated by who won the match. if player A wins over player B, he played better than him (either by outplaying him, or by player B making a blunder, by luck, etc etc). Simply stating that every match that a player wins he outplayed his opponent is redundant.
Personally I think that this would make more sense if someone said hyvaa had outclassed jaedong because redundant or not jaedong made a mistake and hyvaa played more solidly than jaedong and won either way and outplayed them I just don't understand how someone can say hyvaa played more soldily but didn't outplay him. Outsmart and Outplay are two different words and should stay that way imo otherwise we wouldn't need to use them both...
In this scenario, what you're saying is that outplay means "to win without a great advantage in build order." Jaedong blundered in the game. Hyvaa took advantage of that enormous blunder and won. That's just an example of winning. Whenever a person wins without it being mostly luck, they certainly "outplayed" their opponent. But if to outplay is to mean something more, you can't simply take that route. People make mistakes in games all the time, large and small. These give corresponding disadvantages. Simply seeing an error and exploiting it is not enough to warrant the word "outplay." I propose that we take outplay to mean that you actively create opportunities for your opponent to make an error, that you force an error, or that you anticipate what error your opponent will make before he makes it. That way, you are presumably thinking one step ahead of your opponent, not simply responding to his mistakes.
By the way...outsmart and outplay are different words, yes. But outplaying occurs in games, outsmarting occurs everywhere. They could easily be the same in the context of Starcraft.
On February 08 2010 10:38 Ecrilon wrote: In this scenario, what you're saying is that outplay means "to win without a great advantage in build order." Jaedong blundered in the game. Hyvaa took advantage of that enormous blunder and won. That's just an example of winning. Whenever a person wins without it being mostly luck, they certainly "outplayed" their opponent. But if to outplay is to mean something more, you can't simply take that route. People make mistakes in games all the time, large and small. These give corresponding disadvantages. Simply seeing an error and exploiting it is not enough to warrant the word "outplay." I propose that we take outplay to mean that you actively create opportunities for your opponent to make an error, that you force an error, or that you anticipate what error your opponent will make before he makes it. That way, you are presumably thinking one step ahead of your opponent, not simply responding to his mistakes.
By the way...outsmart and outplay are different words, yes. But outplaying occurs in games, outsmarting occurs everywhere. They could easily be the same in the context of Starcraft.
Well explained this way it makes more sense what your trying to get across I just don't agree with you when you say that seeing a blunder and exploiting it isn't enough to be outplayed but that's all personal opinion thanks for clearing it up a little bit ^^; I just interpretted what they were saying as outsmarting someone is essentially outplaying them
Edit: and yes I know outplayed and outsmarted can go hand in hand or be used simultaneously in starcraft I didn't say anything about that because I figured that was inferred or assumed I just wanted to get the point across that outsmarting and outplaying are 2 different ideals
On February 08 2010 12:32 Lebesgue wrote: People discussing whether a player got "outplayed" or "outsmarted" or just "defeated". It has to be the case that Jaedong lost a game...
Every freaking time the same stuff...
Anyway, good job estro. A bit surprised that hyvaa managed to take down Jaedong but that's ZvZ. Anything can happen.
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