lololol if this was last year jaedong would be playing :X but since he's not....i predict each OZ player's mouth will be open at some point ggaemo and hiya are already given, now it's up to killer and super chin
After Jangbi's goons went a bit retarded in that small attack, when the screen showed Stork, the commentator said, "Stork must be thinking, "Why are the commentators scolding the dragoons? They work fine for me!"
*Tank runs away from scarab and takes less than 100% damage*
Nal_ra: Great move from Hiya, if you get hit in the ass, you take less damage! MC Yongjun: I know from my youth in school, getting smacked in the butt does hurt less. Kingdom: If you stick something in your pants for padding, it hurts even less.
Jangbi attacking 11 again - CC lifts - tank/vulture cover the path away - nice reaver use kills a few more tanks, but Jangbi loses virtually all his units.
Really don't understand why Jangbi stuck with one gas. I mean, I didn't even see all that many zealots. Where did the minerals go? Arbiters would have been nice.
Very good micro from Jangbi. He made good use out of smaller armies. But Hiya was pretty damn good as well.
It's like that Best v.s. Lomo match. Best simply refused to take his gas and stuck with a templar-less army.
Jangbi was under constant pressure that entire game. His decision to forgo tech in favor of more units was not stupid at all. A few less dragoons and zealots, and Hiya may have crushed him much earlier.
On January 16 2010 13:59 NeoOmega wrote: Jangbi was under constant pressure that entire game. His decision to forgo tech in favor of more units was not stupid at all. A few less dragoons and zealots, and Hiya may have crushed him much earlier.
Nah, he had plenty of time when attacking hiya's third.
Great Scott, I hate ZvZ. The exact mirror builds every single game, the inane Zergling battles that consist of five minute of positioning and then one-and-a-half seconds of fighting, the fact that every single match is decided after ten minutes by roughly seven seconds of pitched Mutalisk combat...
Oh, well. Stork's next up. Go Stork! Go Samsung KHAN!
On January 16 2010 14:18 Captain Peabody wrote: Great Scott, I hate ZvZ. The exact mirror builds every single game, the inane Zergling battles that consist of five minute of positioning and then one-and-a-half seconds of fighting, the fact that every single match is decided after ten minutes by roughly seven seconds of pitched Mutalisk combat...
Oh, well. Stork's next up. Go Stork! Go Samsung KHAN!
yeah me too. hope SC2 doesn't have a match up that can't use even half of the tech tree
On January 16 2010 14:18 Captain Peabody wrote: Great Scott, I hate ZvZ. The exact mirror builds every single game, the inane Zergling battles that consist of five minute of positioning and then one-and-a-half seconds of fighting, the fact that every single match is decided after ten minutes by roughly seven seconds of pitched Mutalisk combat...
I think the saddest part is how cool (theoretically) ZvZ would be if it ever got past the first ten minutes- Imagine the epic hive tech battles that would ensue
You could see the confidence oozing out of winner. He undestands the match up so well. I thought that those storms on his natural were really hurting him ... seems not o_O
Perfectman really pulling the stops in that game. I think he's improved a lot since the last time I saw him play. He had nice harass but Stork's macro is just so beastly
Watching the replay of Stork vs PM is jawdropping. PM's units were literally coming from every direction but Stork still won with both of his reavers and most of his army still alive.
How'd you get to be so S-Rank Stork? Daaaaammmmmn.
On January 16 2010 14:55 Shikyo wrote: Gyarados > Dragonite, or at least it's really close depending on PKMN version. But Magikarp... Hiya, you need to evolve.
gyarados is a lot more useful than dragonite fo sho
On January 16 2010 14:55 Shikyo wrote: Gyarados > Dragonite, or at least it's really close depending on PKMN version. But Magikarp... Hiya, you need to evolve.
gyarados is a lot more useful than dragonite fo sho
Dragonite can learn the best elemental attacks. Not sure about Gyarados. :/
On January 16 2010 14:45 Womwomwom wrote: Perfectman, you had this...
When? -_-
When he had 4 more gates and killed like 15 probes.
Yeah, but despite that, it still never felt like Stork was really vulnerable.
whether or not stork was actually in immediate danger, perfectman had a very solid advantage and it was his to lose
He had a definite advantage, but I never got the "he has this game" vibe. T_T
Maybe Stork is just that many levels ahead of him.
Well, Stork was ahead in terms of map control/positioning after he sniped that reaver. PM was content to sit behind the bridge and just cannon to his third. He knew he was ahead economically after he contained Stork's nat long enough to get his up at least a minute faster. Then he got a good storm drop off and put his third up a good bit before Stork.
He was also slightly ahead in tech, his archives was up while Stork's was just warping in. So solid eco advantage, tiny tech advantage, and positioning disadvantage.
The reason it always felt on edge was because it was hard to judge who had the upper hand in army strength once the third bases went up. There were little windows several times that game when Stork could have gone for some kind of timing attack. When he broke the contain, after he sniped the reaver, when PM put his third up. So it always felt tense, rather than "oh shit, how is stork possibly going to come back?"
On January 16 2010 14:51 Shikyo wrote: No you can't be serious... At least send Killer please.
Oh well, thumbs up for Hwaseung for learning their lesson with overplaying JD. At least that is respectable.
I dont think they "learned thier lesson" considering they didnt have a choice. unless JD is not preparing for his MSL semi at all.
Before, they used to play JD no matter what.
EDIT: pro double post evade!
I mean it isnt possible to play him since hes not physically there. i might be mistaken but im pretty sure hes at teh MSL semi location since that game starts in a couple of hours.
Khan should have thrown out Firebathero. You know Oz would throw out either Hiya or Killer with Jaedong MIA, and Firebathero would be favored in both those matchups. Now Hiya gets to play his best matchup again, and Khan could legitimately lose to a Jaedong-less Oz
On January 16 2010 14:51 Shikyo wrote: No you can't be serious... At least send Killer please.
Oh well, thumbs up for Hwaseung for learning their lesson with overplaying JD. At least that is respectable.
I dont think they "learned thier lesson" considering they didnt have a choice. unless JD is not preparing for his MSL semi at all.
Before, they used to play JD no matter what.
EDIT: pro double post evade!
I mean it isnt possible to play him since hes not physically there. i might be mistaken but im pretty sure hes at teh MSL semi location since that game starts in a couple of hours.
Well that's a good point! I didn't consider that the MSL finals venue might be quite far away.
On January 16 2010 14:55 Shikyo wrote: Gyarados > Dragonite, or at least it's really close depending on PKMN version. But Magikarp... Hiya, you need to evolve.
gyarados is a lot more useful than dragonite fo sho
Dragonite can learn the best elemental attacks. Not sure about Gyarados. :/
dragonite doesn't have the speed/SA to use 'em. he's not bad but not top-tier like gyara
On January 16 2010 14:55 Shikyo wrote: Gyarados > Dragonite, or at least it's really close depending on PKMN version. But Magikarp... Hiya, you need to evolve.
gyarados is a lot more useful than dragonite fo sho
Dragonite can learn the best elemental attacks. Not sure about Gyarados. :/
dragonite doesn't have the speed/SA to use 'em. he's not bad but not top-tier like gyara
They're both in the OU tier, can't say which is better since they fill different roles.
lol - nice vulture placement allows Hiya to pick off a few more probes. Stork finally mineral-walks a goon through and finishes off the threat. Still, 5 kills, not bad.
LOL at people thinking Stork didn't lose much, a well-timed bunker rush like what Hiya did never hurts Terran all that much so even if T loses mining time it's efficient as hell.
On January 16 2010 14:55 Shikyo wrote: Gyarados > Dragonite, or at least it's really close depending on PKMN version. But Magikarp... Hiya, you need to evolve.
gyarados is a lot more useful than dragonite fo sho
Dragonite can learn the best elemental attacks. Not sure about Gyarados. :/
dragonite doesn't have the speed/SA to use 'em. he's not bad but not top-tier like gyara
They're both in the OU tier, can't say which is better since they fill different roles.
really? i haven't checked since RSE lol but i thought dragonite was BL in that
Yep. That's how far ahead a good bunker rush puts T vs 2 Nexus. Doesn't matter if they lose mining time, if it's done right and takes down the Nexus P is pretty screwed.
I really need to know what is the expected gains from using such a build. It has a 90% failure rate i'm sure. And if anyone can pull off a build its Stork, but he still loses.
On January 16 2010 15:14 tedster wrote: Yep. That's how far ahead a good bunker rush puts T vs 2 Nexus. Doesn't matter if they lose mining time, if it's done right and takes down the Nexus P is pretty screwed.
Flawless play by Hiya
i beg to differ...its more of stork getting greedy and expanding too much VS hiya's 5 facts push.. the bunker rush didnt really made much of a difference
On January 16 2010 15:14 tedster wrote: Yep. That's how far ahead a good bunker rush puts T vs 2 Nexus. Doesn't matter if they lose mining time, if it's done right and takes down the Nexus P is pretty screwed.
Flawless play by Hiya
This is beyond wrong lol. Losing the nexus when T has to pull mass SCVs to do the bunker rush does not put the P behind. Stork and several other toss players have said this in interviews before.
Stork lost because he wasn't expecting a 5 fac hanbang and pulled his goons back pretty late, allowing vults to flank him, along with several other small errors. The icing on the cake was when his goons were all busy shooting an ebay while his zealots streamed in to die.
On January 16 2010 15:14 tedster wrote: Yep. That's how far ahead a good bunker rush puts T vs 2 Nexus. Doesn't matter if they lose mining time, if it's done right and takes down the Nexus P is pretty screwed.
Flawless play by Hiya
i beg to differ...its more of stork getting greedy and expanding too much VS hiya's 5 facts push.. the bunker rush didnt really made much of a difference
After the bunker rush he was behind on tech and slightly behind on bases - P can't win vs. a decent T in that situation, it's not remotely possible. He needed a miracle and the only place he could try to catch up was economy. Stork prayed that Hiya would go expand some instead of pushing and did what he could to stay alive if that was the case.
On January 16 2010 15:17 StorkHwaiting wrote: This is beyond wrong lol. Losing the nexus when T has to pull mass SCVs to do the bunker rush does not put the P behind. Stork and several other toss players have said this in interviews before. .
It's so ridiculous that this is true. It should be gg like it is for zerg or terran.
Well the 5-fac attack worked very well because Stork had one of the back expos, AND had immediately retaken his nat (and Hiya knew of both), and thus his money was invested in his economy and he would have a lot fewer units for the immediate future.
Hiya really didn't have to pull that many of his SCVs is the thing. He was still mining with a decent amount back home and was able to quickly get the bunker up and head back. His natural was up and running before Stork's so he obviously had a slightly better eco at that point.
If he had to pull more SCVs then yeah, he would have been behind still, or at least even, but they showed both bases at that point and hiya was clearly up.
On January 16 2010 15:14 tedster wrote: Yep. That's how far ahead a good bunker rush puts T vs 2 Nexus. Doesn't matter if they lose mining time, if it's done right and takes down the Nexus P is pretty screwed.
Flawless play by Hiya
i beg to differ...its more of stork getting greedy and expanding too much VS hiya's 5 facts push.. the bunker rush didnt really made much of a difference
After the bunker rush he was behind on tech and slightly behind on bases - P can't win vs. a decent T in that situation, it's not remotely possible. He needed a miracle and the only place he could try to catch up was economy. Stork prayed that Hiya would go expand some instead of pushing and did what he could to stay alive if that was the case.
Because it was 14 nex not 13 nex, so destroying it will put terran ahead. Furthermore he is cheeky to put the nex infront, if he do 13 nex behind i am sure hiya will expand instead. Stork played super greedy even knowing that hiya stopped to expand, had the chance to play off 2 base and early 8 gates against the push which will always come anyway. Every player knows only chance to beat stork is to avoid the macro game.
Hiya's always had killer TvP, though today he just showed excellence in defending cheese and executing cheese. Both excellent traits, but a bit lacking in standard TvP play.
I do find it funny that he has a better record vs Stork and Jangbi than Flash, but a worse record against Free, Bisu, and Kal.
Same with Best.
Shame Hiya hasn't had to play any series vs top toss like LYH, though. He's got the potential but so far it's exclusively in Bo1s.
On January 17 2010 01:02 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hiya's always had killer TvP, though today he just showed excellence in defending cheese and executing cheese. Both excellent traits, but a bit lacking in standard TvP play.
I do find it funny that he has a better record vs Stork and Jangbi than Flash, but a worse record against Free, Bisu, and Kal.
Same with Best.
Shame Hiya hasn't had to play any series vs top toss like LYH, though. He's got the potential but so far it's exclusively in Bo1s.
Excuse me, but where did Hiya cheese?
Or are timing pushes cheese nowadays when terrans other than Flash do it?
I mean that aside there was still little standard TvP played today. That doesn't discredit Hiya's wins, but it does fail to dispell doubt that his tvp management may not be up to snuff.
On January 17 2010 01:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: SCV rushing a 14 nex is cheese.
If Flash does it it's cheese.
Don't know what you're on about. :>
Hiya went completely standard with rax after depot. 8rax vs 12 Nex might be cheese (I'd call it double cheese). But all Hiya did was a timing push with marines and scvs. I doubt he ever intended to sacrifice them, he just needed them to block the probes.
On January 17 2010 01:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: It is cheese, man. I'm not dissing cheese or anything -- I mean, + Show Spoiler +
my favorite player just 14cc'd and bunker rushed his way to a final,
, and Hiya pulled off a cheese as well.
its not really a cheese, if you do it properly theres no risk involved. you're going to kill the nexus, and you're going to end up a little bit behind, but not as much as if you had let the nexus stand. its an aggressive response to a cheese, but i dont think you can call it it a cheese in itself when theres no risk and no ability to do serious damage to your opponent.
I never thought Stork would lose on Outsider against T. He has shown great confidence on Outsider and January always sends Stork when Outsider comes to play.
As many already mentioned he lost because being greedy but I think overall Stork didn't acknowledge he was playing Hiya that always been know for good timing pushes in TvP for a very very long time on the scene. You don't really see Hiyas management lacking until lategame and that is his weakness.
Stork should have gone for a safer BO from the beginning when he saw it was Hiya who was sent out. Once again another lesson for Stork to learn, the good thing Stork will only get better .
On January 17 2010 02:51 InDaHouse wrote: I never thought Stork would lose on Outsider against T. He has shown great confidence on Outsider and January always sends Stork when Outsider comes to play.
As many already mentioned he lost because being greedy but I think overall Stork didn't acknowledge he was playing Hiya that always been know for good timing pushes in TvP for a very very long time on the scene. You don't really see Hiyas management lacking until lategame and that is his weakness.
Stork should have gone for a safer BO from the beginning when he saw it was Hiya who was sent out. Once again another lesson for Stork to learn, the good thing Stork will only get better .
Well then Odin will be a monster soon with all his lessons.
On January 17 2010 01:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: It is cheese, man. I'm not dissing cheese or anything -- I mean, + Show Spoiler +
my favorite player just 14cc'd and bunker rushed his way to a final,
, and Hiya pulled off a cheese as well.
its not really a cheese, if you do it properly theres no risk involved. you're going to kill the nexus, and you're going to end up a little bit behind, but not as much as if you had let the nexus stand. its an aggressive response to a cheese, but i dont think you can call it it a cheese in itself when theres no risk and no ability to do serious damage to your opponent.
So, it falls in that miscellaneous category between cheese and standard the same way 9pool speed, 8rax rush, and 2 gate does?
On January 17 2010 02:51 InDaHouse wrote: I never thought Stork would lose on Outsider against T. He has shown great confidence on Outsider and January always sends Stork when Outsider comes to play.
As many already mentioned he lost because being greedy but I think overall Stork didn't acknowledge he was playing Hiya that always been know for good timing pushes in TvP for a very very long time on the scene. You don't really see Hiyas management lacking until lategame and that is his weakness.
Stork should have gone for a safer BO from the beginning when he saw it was Hiya who was sent out. Once again another lesson for Stork to learn, the good thing Stork will only get better .
Well then Odin will be a monster soon with all his lessons.
On January 17 2010 02:51 InDaHouse wrote: I never thought Stork would lose on Outsider against T. He has shown great confidence on Outsider and January always sends Stork when Outsider comes to play.
As many already mentioned he lost because being greedy but I think overall Stork didn't acknowledge he was playing Hiya that always been know for good timing pushes in TvP for a very very long time on the scene. You don't really see Hiyas management lacking until lategame and that is his weakness.
Stork should have gone for a safer BO from the beginning when he saw it was Hiya who was sent out. Once again another lesson for Stork to learn, the good thing Stork will only get better .
Well then Odin will be a monster soon with all his lessons.
Wow u are so funny, ha ha. You just compared oDin and Stork.
On January 17 2010 01:02 TwoToneTerran wrote: Shame Hiya hasn't had to play any series vs top toss like LYH, though. He's got the potential but so far it's exclusively in Bo1s.
My theory is: SL's are elimination style, and players are bound to face all three races en route to the grand prize, so favor tends to shine on those with no weak matchups. Hiya can take on any P (except Spinach Toss) and is improving vs Z, but he is an underdog against any T. If Oz hires a decent Terran (not Lomo) for KSH to practice TvT with, I think he'll be more likely to do well in the SL's.
By the way, very snazzy blue shirts on Oz. I hadn't noticed that before.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/Proleague0910.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/10.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/43.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4270138554_9d0f968feb_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/216.jpg)
firebathero < New Tornado > 
ggaemo![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/63.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4270138564_1e218895fc_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/205.jpg)
JangBi < Neo Moon Glaive > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/57.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2680/4276248604_849e323a14.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/558.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/59.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4270138498_267ee50737_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/599.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/noimage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4270138512_2c0c751908_m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imagehost.org/0121/fbh.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imagehost.org/0769/ggaEMO.png)
![[image loading]](http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv165/jdaifuku/Untitled.png)
