EPTAnd if he had only one expansion it would have been either 2 base carrier or fast arbiter (less likely with no dt opening). Against both those strategies, the early 4 fact push makes sense..
[OSL] Ever 2009 OSL - Ro16 - Day 3 - Page 54
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
And if he had only one expansion it would have been either 2 base carrier or fast arbiter (less likely with no dt opening). Against both those strategies, the early 4 fact push makes sense.. | ||
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Highways
Australia6124 Posts
Stork got abit lucky there. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:39 Chen wrote: How did Stork have control of the Center when flash was running Tanks and vultures at his natural?! after the push break. his expos were walled off. flash needed to commit all of his units to that push, not waste any doing what will more than likely be a failed harass attempt | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:39 okum wrote: When Flash does this, people complain that he isn't being aggressive. pfft Flash doesn't need to cater for stupid ADD people they can watch leta if they want flashy no result plays | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: after the push break. his expos were walled off. flash needed to commit all of his units to that push, not waste any doing what will more than likely be a failed harass attempt I was talking about before the push break -.- and if he got 1 unit in there he completely shuts down Storks base, meaning in all likelihood that Stork can't make enough units to break it. but meh, maybe i'm way underestimating time and money it takes to kill 1 cannon and 1 pylon | ||
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Emon_
3925 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:34 UGC4 wrote: did flash really play that well? - stork double-expanded and still fought off the push. it was a rather weak push. perhaps a bunker+rines would have made it stronger - flash scouted the hidden expo super late - flash did nothing about that hidden expo - flash let stork get up to 5 bases by the end of the game - flash did nothing to harass any of stork's bases i mean, yeah, he played well, but i wouldn't say he played all that great. i did like his game sense though, he expected the carriers even before he scanned them seeing that stork's ground army wasnt getting any bigger. but thats about all i can commend flash for this game sadly. and his decision to back off and defend at the elimination race moment was not good i dont think. i'd say he could have taken those carriers, and destroyed at least the natural and then gone back. oh well im happy stork won Pretty much sums it up. Flash being behind in the macro game is the biggest surprise to me, since he usually keeps his cool in situations like this. He tried to end it early with his push while Stork got a third up and running (LONG before Flash started his third) and defended against the aggression. Flash was taking his third while Stork was going for his forth. Once the 2 o'clock and 11 o'clock were up for Stork, that just sealed the deal. Good game by Stork. Hope Flash comes back to his macro-roots. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Some people can't handle the truth. I feel as if terran doesn't execute the only counter perfectly he loses while protoss have more options every game. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Flash's decision to push was excellent, the only reason his push was broken was due to Stork being intelligent enough to flank with the extra 3 goons that were at his third - that is the reason why Stork is such a good player. | ||
SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:40 MrHoon wrote: pfft Flash doesn't need to cater for stupid ADD people they can watch leta if they want flashy no result plays AMEN TO THAT MRHOON! | ||
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Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
but the legend of the fall delivers. | ||
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:40 G.s)NarutO wrote: Are you guys really thinking Flash didn't know about the 3rd expansion, really? He is an S-Class progamer and I'm pretty sure he knew about an expo anywhere on the map. Stork had too less units to just have expanded at his nat. And if he had only one expansion it would have been either 2 base carrier or fast arbiter (less likely with no dt opening). Against both those strategies, the early 4 fact push makes sense.. Flash didn't know about the 3rd until it was too late an FPVOD was seen during the game with him blind on 5 oclock it was until he scanned it that he found out about it | ||
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:41 Heimatloser wrote: sad sad sad... guess no medals again for flash... but the legend of the fall delivers. He's not out yet. He can still make it to Ro8 after he rolls Type-B. | ||
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sauc
Canada26 Posts
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gchan
United States654 Posts
Unfortunately for Flash, Stork wasn't going 2 base tech, but rather went for 2 quick expansions. This allowed him to get enough troops to break the push (that and a little bit of luck by having his 3 dragoons in the back...originally planned to be used to kill scouts). If Flash has geared his push towards taking the high position and wiping out the secret expo, Flash would have been ahead. See Stork's game versus Sea for an example of this. Stork tried to pull of the same thing, but Sea scouted his secret expo. Sea simply sieged up at a defensible position, rather than trying to push like Flash, and used his excess troops to wipe out the secret expo. The rest of the game was Sea simply outmacroing Stork. | ||
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zimp
Hungary959 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:31 Highways wrote: Those three dragoons that came from the back potentially cost Flash the game. They killed 3 tanks, so Flash had to stop pure vulture pump and wait for tanks to arrive again. i agree. flash went for the timing without scouting the 3rd which was risky but good decision. his timing was a little little bit late because of the turrets he had to put up due to not seeing the 1st nexus with his first scout. still the push would have worked if stork hadn't had so good micro at the first battle with those 3 sneaky goons. very close timing | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:41 MrHoon wrote: Flash didn't know about the 3rd until it was too late an FPVOD was seen during the game with him blind on 5 oclock it was until he scanned it that he found out about it He doesn't need to scout it to know it. Starsense. Why do you think he pushed? As I said, he either expected: - 2 base carrier - 2 base arbiter - 3rd expo on the map = Push Flash could not push the 3rd expansion because 1) didn't know where it is 2) Stork would counter. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:37 MrHoon wrote: Flash lost the minute he went 4 Fac Flash should've just sat in his base and 200/200 with 3/3 upgrades That was the only way for him to beat 3 Nexus turtle to 200/200 + 3/3 ups doesnt work against dragons They'll just outexpand you then. Why do you think Flash never does that when he plays them? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
SOOOOOOOO many people will hate him especially if it's cheese | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On December 02 2009 20:42 gchan wrote: Flash's push was directed at FE into DTs into arbibters. His push is supposed to hit the timing window right before arbs come out or can do anything effectively. I think one of his "new" ways of playing TvP is hitting this timing window as he tried to do against Best with his sneak-in EMP. Rather than doing it with an EMP like he did against Best, he did it with a timing push which probably works better for HBR. Unfortunately for Flash, Stork wasn't going 2 base tech, but rather went for 2 quick expansions. This allowed him to get enough troops to break the push (that and a little bit of luck by having his 3 dragoons in the back...originally planned to be used to kill scouts). If Flash has geared his push towards taking the high position and wiping out the secret expo, Flash would have been ahead. See Stork's game versus Sea for an example of this. Stork tried to pull of the same thing, but Sea scouted his secret expo. Sea simply sieged up at a defensible position, rather than trying to push like Flash, and used his excess troops to wipe out the secret expo. The rest of the game was Sea simply outmacroing Stork. I don't think he would have timing-counterd something he didn't know was coming. I think he knew about the third as soon as there was no reavers or anything in his base at a certain time or get a glance of storks army. The timing of his push was good, sure he could have gone for the third if he knew where it was and wouldn't be countered but still I don't think its as easy for terran to beat that style on HBR as it is for protoss to play it. | ||
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