EPT[OSL] Ever 2009 OSL - Ro16 - Day 1 - Page 52
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
Because he faked it? People with lurker openings often build a spire too because it forces t player to build lots of turrets. | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:02 Holgerius wrote: Jaedong once cancelled his Spire by accident, Flash once forgot rally points and never realized he had a million tanks less than he was supposed to etc. Shit happens. Seriously you guys, go rewatch the game and then try to claim Clam didn't play a horrible game. Stork forgot to research goon range in the final game of MSL final. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:26 zulu_nation8 wrote: tree.hugger plays at a level where losing two overlords puts him 50 supplies behind I actually PLAY on that level.  + Show Spoiler + I don't think on that level however. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:14 Holgerius wrote: Yes I have. Your BW knowledge must seriously be very limited if you think losing two Overlords will put you in the situation that Clam was in. As LetMeShine said; we're not arguing that Fantasy played bad, we're arguing that Clam played horribly. And ya, I'm sure Clam never practised vs standard Bio. Oh please. Nobody is arguing that fantasy played poorly. So why even bring that up? Obviously losing two overlords does not equal an auto-loss. But in this case, it gave  fantasy an advantage that he never relinquished. I'm perplexed as to what you think  Calm should have done when fantasy scouted his every move, and sniped his overlords and drones, and controlled his units nearly perfectly- against Calm's lurkers and defilers. On November 26 2009 11:26 zulu_nation8 wrote: tree.hugger plays at a level where losing two overlords puts him 50 supplies behind Dumb cheap shot. Calm down. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
1) Calm was a little nervous to start the game, or at least less than confident. 2) He opened up with an anti-mech hydra build 3) fantasy blocked scouting perfectly, never showing more than a "reasonable" number of marines to go with a mech build. Calm didn't figure out it was non-mech until about 6:00 (in the video) when he scouted a 1-rax expand instead of... well, vultures. 4) Calm lost it completely. He tried to switch tech to spire (probably a good idea, but late, AND the gas may have delayed lurker research), hidden expand (possibly a good idea, but it was scouted), and drop sunkens (over-reaction?) all at the same time. Keep in mind that he had just lost an OL and would lose another one while trying to do all this. At that point, Calm's "build" is completely gone and he's basically lost, especially against someone of fantasy's caliber. The lurker push might have saved him against a worse Terran (or at least bought time for swarm). If he had put his 3rd base at the min-only by his base and gone straight lurker-ling to stall till Hive, that might have worked too. 5) Then he loses 6 drones (I think just 6) trying to transfer to his expansion that he put down even though it was scouted (which really makes no sense at all). Really Calm was on the back foot as soon as he had committed to an anti-mech build against fantasy going bio. On the other hand, his decision-making was terrible too - I'm going to go with the option that fantasy won this one with mind-games, but Calm threw away whatever chances he did have pretty thoroughly. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:30 iloahz wrote: Stork forgot to research goon range in the final game of MSL final. Ya, and lets not forget Bisu's epic stormless High Templar drop against Flash on Blue Storm. XD On November 26 2009 11:32 tree.hugger wrote: Oh please. Nobody is arguing that fantasy played poorly. So why even bring that up? Obviously losing two overlords does not equal an auto-loss. But in this case, it gave fantasy an advantage that he never relinquished. I'm perplexed as to what you think Calm should have done when fantasy scouted his every move, and sniped his overlords and drones, and controlled his units nearly perfectly- against Calm's lurkers and defilers. Dumb cheap shot. Calm down. It actually isn't just a dumb cheap shot; that is actually what you are trying to say. Calm had around 40 food when Fantasy was at around 90 when there had been no battles whatsoever, and still you are saying things like ''Calm didn't necessarily do anything wrong''. That is why I'm arguing. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:34 zulu_nation8 wrote: yes losing two ovies put him 50 supplies behind without fighting any battles On November 26 2009 11:14 Holgerius wrote: It actually isn't just a dumb cheap shot; that is actually what you are trying to say. Calm had around 40 food when Fantasy was at around 90 when there had been no battles whatsoever, and still you are saying things like ''Calm didn't necessarily do anything wrong''. That is why I'm arguing. I feel like anything I write gets taken by somebody, shoved into a little black box and pops out as a strawman. Good grief. I can't do this anymore. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:26 zulu_nation8 wrote: tree.hugger plays at a level where losing two overlords puts him 50 supplies behind 50 may be exaggerated, but it's not hard to fathom if the terran reacts correctly. There is a snowball effect due to the zerg not being able to drone whore early on, and as a result constantly play uphill with a lesser economy, which in time could easily result in such a food differential. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:51 baubo wrote: 50 may be exaggerated, but it's not hard to fathom if the terran reacts correctly. There is a snowball effect due to the zerg not being able to drone whore early on, and as a result constantly play uphill with a lesser economy, which in time could easily result in such a food differential. that was not what happened though, calm's forgetting to research lurker is the main reason, above everything else, he fell so behind. | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 26 2009 11:58 zulu_nation8 wrote: that was not what happened though, calm's forgetting to research lurker is the main reason, above everything else, he fell so behind. Calm made a lot of mistakes in that game. A lot of it following losing the ovies. But even if he had played correctly, he would've still gotten behind more and more assuming Fantasy keeps up the pressure. What happened in the game doesn't detract from the fact that losing overlords that early in the game is detrimental. And probably the reason why Calm got so flustered he made a whole bunch of silly mistakes you'd normally never expect from a A or S class progamer. | ||
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DoX.)
Singapore6164 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 26 2009 12:21 baubo wrote: Calm made a lot of mistakes in that game. A lot of it following losing the ovies. But even if he had played correctly, he would've still gotten behind more and more assuming Fantasy keeps up the pressure. What happened in the game doesn't detract from the fact that losing overlords that early in the game is detrimental. And probably the reason why Calm got so flustered he made a whole bunch of silly mistakes you'd normally never expect from a A or S class progamer. ok so what was the bigger mistake, losing overlords or forgetting to research lurker | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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