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Poll: Who will win? (Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): WeMade FOX
Poll: Who are you rooting for? (Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): WeMade FOX
Poll: Will Flash hit 20 TvT wins? (Vote): Hell yes! (Vote): No. (Vote): Not if Mind has anything to say about it.
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Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the greatest Terran of all?
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I like mirror matchups, especially PvP. I don't think anyone is gonna watch this over LIM JIN ROK though.
Real men watch both simultaneously.
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Flash < Moon Glaive > Mind 16 game TvT streak sup?
Luxury < Outsider SE > RorO dude's on fire
HoeJJa < Fighting Spirit > Shine I dont like HoeJJa
Violet < Heartbreak Ridge > Pure Violet beat Bisu xD
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and violet beat pure last time they met on the same map too..
that game was awesome.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Interesting how KT put FlaSh first on their line up this time. They almost ALWAYS put him on 3rd.
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United States13143 Posts
On November 23 2009 07:55 SilverskY wrote: Interesting how KT put FlaSh first on their line up this time. They almost ALWAYS put him on 3rd. I would bet KT put Flash on Moon Glaive so he could take down another terran, considering how invincible he's been looking in TvT.
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I love Mind so much, I really wish he would win some more games (not against Flash though lol)
I hope he loses, but valiantly. I'm still shocked at Flash's comeback against RuBy, I don't see how he could lose to a slumping Mind.
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rational prediction would be KT 3-1 with HoeJJa dropping his game - Shine is just better. Violet vs Pure won't be an easy game too.
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mind's gonna bbs flash! CALLED IT RIGHT HERE!
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I keep telling myself that Flash has to lose a TvT one of these days, but to who? He just looks so damn invincible against any other Terran. Even when he looks like he's losing, he's actually winning. As soon as the opponent makes one tiny slipup, Flash just rolls over them and never loses momentum. His Proleague TvT streak will end eventually - not to an enemy Terran, but to a factory rally point.
Anyway, predicting 3-1 like the rest here, but I want 3-2 KT with Flash vs a WeMade Protoss on Match Point (a P favored map, but it's not like WeMade has a Stork/Bisu/Best on their team). Maybe Lucifer so we can have Lee Young Ho vs Lee Young Ho.
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On November 23 2009 09:24 Hinanawi wrote: I keep telling myself that Flash has to lose a TvT one of these days, but to who? He just looks so damn invincible against any other Terran. Even when he looks like he's losing, he's actually winning. As soon as the opponent makes one tiny slipup, Flash just rolls over them and never loses momentum. His Proleague TvT streak will end eventually - not to an enemy Terran, but to a factory rally point.
Yeah, I agree. Just look at his recent Flash v.s. Ruby. + Show Spoiler +Ruby managed to actually accumulate a considerable advantage with higher tank count and map control, then Ruby spread his army out for just a moment, Flash seized that opportunity right away and destroyed Ruby's spread out army faster than you can blink with his dropship play.
Fantasy was one of the last hope against Flash and looked what happened...
In fact, I think that the only person left who can take down Flash in a straight up TvT is Sea, judging from Sea's recent records. FBH can probably take at least one game off Flash out of a best of 3. Unless a Terran manage to pull off a Boxerish cheese with absolutely perfect execution and micro, Flash's streak isn't gonna end.
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Until they start playing NaDa, WeMade won't stand a chance in Proleague.
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United States10328 Posts
ALL MIRROR
flash vs mind, lux vs roro, violet vs pure look like good matchups
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Im starting to think theres enough mirrors this season.
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On November 23 2009 10:24 Triple7 wrote: Until they start playing NaDa, WeMade won't stand a chance in Proleague. Wemade is #2 in the standings now. They're doing much better after having stopped fielding him.
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On November 23 2009 10:44 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2009 10:24 Triple7 wrote: Until they start playing NaDa, WeMade won't stand a chance in Proleague. Wemade is #2 in the standings now. They're doing much better after having stopped fielding him. His post almost sounded serious.
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On November 23 2009 07:55 SilverskY wrote: Interesting how KT put FlaSh first on their line up this time. They almost ALWAYS put him on 3rd. Based on maps for sure hoping it gets to ace so flash can get 2 wins yay
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I remember reading something about where coaches think that the most important spot is #3, and the 2nd most important is #1.
I think the reason #3 is the most important is if you lost the first 2 games, you need someone with the most experience, and the one that can hold their nerve the best to steer you back on track.
If i'm not mistaken, I think bisu and jaedong were also sent out on #3 the most often for their respective teams last season as well.
#1 is the second most important cos the team needs to get off to a good start.
If anyone has a better explanation on why flash has been sent on on #3 nearly every single match, then please, let us know about it.
However, for this week, I think it was dictated by the map.
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Of all the matchups Mind gets, he has to face the absolute TvT monster that is Flash.
As much as I hate to say it, I could see a KT win here. Most likely, to me, going to be a 3-2 KT win with Flash going to ACE.
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Flash is fat. + Show Spoiler +As in he is well fed by teams throwing Terrans at him
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(T)Flash < Moon Glaive > (T)Mind It's almost to the point of FvT now. A matchup that is relatively forgiving of mistakes gives the better player all the more chances to win, Flash takes this one. (Z)Luxury < Outsider SE > (Z)RorO Lux has good ZvZ (just don't watch the game against Effort it was ugly). Roro has been okay lately but not as good as Lux. (Z)HoeJJa < Fighting Spirit > (Z)Shine To be honest I don't really even think Hoejja is at a disadvantage here but if anyone on KT is going to lose today he stands the best shot. I think it's about a 50/50 here so I'll go with Shine. (P)Violet < Heartbreak Ridge > (P)Pure Violet has been doing well, he's got this one. (T)Flash < Match Point> (Z)RorO If by chance it makes it this far I have no idea who fox will send to the ace match. Match Point is awful for Z and not great for P but I don't think they'll mess with Flash's vT.
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On November 23 2009 11:48 Tyxiquale wrote: I remember reading something about where coaches think that the most important spot is #3, and the 2nd most important is #1.
I think the reason #3 is the most important is if you lost the first 2 games, you need someone with the most experience, and the one that can hold their nerve the best to steer you back on track.
If i'm not mistaken, I think bisu and jaedong were also sent out on #3 the most often for their respective teams last season as well.
#1 is the second most important cos the team needs to get off to a good start.
If anyone has a better explanation on why flash has been sent on on #3 nearly every single match, then please, let us know about it.
However, for this week, I think it was dictated by the map.
I think it was Stats who said as much that's exactly how it works, in one of the KT winners' interviews. Whenever possible with the maps, KT's coach sends out Flash 3rd and Luxury 4th. Then he tells the first two people "Look, don't stress too much because Flash and Luxury can still save us if you lose your game, just try your best without being nervous."
Seems it's worked well so far for KT.
On November 23 2009 22:02 revy wrote: If by chance it makes it this far I have no idea who fox will send to the ace match. Match Point is awful for Z and not great for P but I don't think they'll mess with Flash's vT.
Match Point is a Protoss heaven, isn't it? Look at the map's stats, it has almost nothing but PvP mirrors played on it. Sure, the TvP stats are slanted towards T, but if you look at the games themselves, it's usually strong Ts stomping weak Ps.
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#3 is important because if tied 1-1, game 4 is an elimination game.
so obviously you want your big guns playing in the pivitol and high pressure situations.
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someone has to stop flash! and i hope it isnot mind!
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KTROLSTER HWAITING!!
Flash will have 30 game win streak (against T)
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Mind is a strong tvt'er
I believe!
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On November 24 2009 02:30 Horiz0n wrote:Mind is a strong tvt'er I believe!
As good a tvt'er Mind is, he's got 7 losses to 1 win vs Flash. No chance man... it's gonna be a one-sided rape as usual.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On November 23 2009 22:02 revy wrote:(T)Flash < Moon Glaive > (T) MindIt's almost to the point of FvT now. A matchup that is relatively forgiving of mistakes gives the better player all the more chances to win, Flash takes this one. (Z)Luxury < Outsider SE > (Z) RorOLux has good ZvZ (just don't watch the game against Effort it was ugly). Roro has been okay lately but not as good as Lux. (Z) HoeJJa < Fighting Spirit > (Z)ShineTo be honest I don't really even think Hoejja is at a disadvantage here but if anyone on KT is going to lose today he stands the best shot. I think it's about a 50/50 here so I'll go with Shine. (P)Violet < Heartbreak Ridge > (P) PureViolet has been doing well, he's got this one. (T)Flash < Match Point> (Z) RorOIf by chance it makes it this far I have no idea who fox will send to the ace match. Match Point is awful for Z and not great for P but I don't think they'll mess with Flash's vT.
Roro is 2-8 out of his last 10 games. "Roro has been okay lately" is quite the overstatement.
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2 out of 10's pretty good for Roro.
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I feel bad cheering for Rolster when I own a WeMade FOX jersey.
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United States13143 Posts
If WeMade manages to get it to ace(and I don't think they will) I think they have to send Pure, since the only race flash has shown any weakness against lately is protoss.
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On November 24 2009 02:33 meeple wrote:As good a tvt'er Mind is, he's got 7 losses to 1 win vs Flash. No chance man... it's gonna be a one-sided rape as usual.
I have hope, so don't you dare try to take that away fro me :>
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On November 24 2009 03:58 Elyvilon wrote: If WeMade manages to get it to ace(and I don't think they will) I think they have to send Pure, since the only race flash has shown any weakness against lately is protoss.
Match Point is a P map too, so yeah.
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There should be a law against mirrors!... oh, wait; Lee Young Ho is playing TvT... Flash hwaiting! Get that 20 TvT record and bask in its honor!
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(T)Flash > (T)Mind (Z)Luxury > (Z)RorO (Z)HoeJJa > (Z)Shine (P)Violet > (P)Pure
....Fox never had a chance
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Roro is 5-4 in PL, that's okay in my book. Sure he crashed out of leagues but for that matter so did Luxury. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lux, he's been lights out in PL so far.
As for Match point, yes there are lots of PvPs on it but recently I've been seeing a lot more variety, TvZ's and TvT's mostly. I guess you could send Pure against Flash but I don't know if that's much better.
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On November 23 2009 22:02 revy wrote:(T)Flash < Moon Glaive > (T) MindIt's almost to the point of FvT now. A matchup that is relatively forgiving of mistakes gives the better player all the more chances to win, Flash takes this one. (Z)Luxury < Outsider SE > (Z) RorOLux has good ZvZ (just don't watch the game against Effort it was ugly). Roro has been okay lately but not as good as Lux. (Z) HoeJJa < Fighting Spirit > (Z)ShineTo be honest I don't really even think Hoejja is at a disadvantage here but if anyone on KT is going to lose today he stands the best shot. I think it's about a 50/50 here so I'll go with Shine. (P)Violet < Heartbreak Ridge > (P) PureViolet has been doing well, he's got this one. (T)Flash < Match Point> (Z) RorOIf by chance it makes it this far I have no idea who fox will send to the ace match. Match Point is awful for Z and not great for P but I don't think they'll mess with Flash's vT.
How I see it going as well too. Although I can see The Ace Match(not that it will get that far being Midas(because he's Midas) or BaBy(only BaBy for the sheer cheese factor that 2 port wraith has and the fact BaBy loves Wraiths)
Although RorO can take it with some luck and so can Pure. But I think KT is just too strong. Also WeMade isn't very deep skill wise and they really haven't had much time at the top like KT either.
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i was gonna say ballsy pick..but when does hoejja rape anyone in zvz...Shine is heavily favored. Pure vs Violet is probably the closest match.
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On November 24 2009 13:19 mog87 wrote:i was gonna say ballsy pick..but when does hoejja rape anyone in zvz...Shine is heavily favored. Pure vs Violet is probably the closest match.
2-0'd Calm.
His stats are bad but his control is usually pretty good. Lots of potential, kind of like Hyuk a bit ago (good at ZvP, basically).
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Mirrors, plus who gives a shit when Boxer and Yellow is on the same day?
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On November 24 2009 14:52 Roffles wrote: Mirrors, plus who gives a shit when Boxer and Yellow is on the same day?
I'm only gonna watch the first match of SKT/ACE.
I like mirrors, especially TvT >:o. Besides, even if one match is more exciting, someones gotta make the thread :p
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On November 24 2009 16:53 Caller wrote:i <might> be streaming this at http://www.livestream.com/Challerathere is a chance i will pass out before then or I will have adhd and swap onto other people's streams
What source do you use for your streams btw?
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Thanks
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Flash and Luxuxy should win the first two games for KTR. And even if Lux somehow fails (it's not unlikely though), KTR can always rely on Violet to deliver another win to send Flash out on ACE to cruise his team to another win in R1.
FOX's only chance is to win all the non-vs-Flash games.
No matter how hyped up I am over Flash vs Mind, I do believe its gonna turn out to be another TvT rape fest for the Ultimate Weapon.
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i doubt many people are gonna be watching this
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flash at top in red mind at bottom left in brown moon glaive
prolly nobody is watching this though lol
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On November 24 2009 18:36 Crunchums wrote: flash at top in red mind at bottom left in brown moon glaive
prolly nobody is watching this though lol
Thats why we'll need LR.
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I'm watching both games. Flash two facted and killed alot of SCVs... not sure whos in the lead now. Probably mind
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colors are really messing me up for some reason. Not sure who is holding what bases or otherwise I would LR
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Mind is getting molested right now lol
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Wait does Flash hold 5 o clock!? O_O. This whole time I thought he was way behind lol
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Gotta say... I must be sick when I had both PL matches open but found myself paying more attention to this match than Yellow and Boxer.
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What is Flash's TvT winstreak at now?
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it's 16 wins lol, i agree with you vasoline i couldn't stop watching this one vs boxer and yellow match
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So does anyone know what the Kespa Refs said midgame?
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On November 24 2009 19:04 Crunchums wrote: What is Flash's TvT winstreak at now?
16
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You people watching this match should be ashamed.
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Nah Flash was never far behind, perhaps never even behind. I think his 2 fact got enough SCV kills to even them out. They both expanded once to gas expo's and then Flash started to take over the main at 5 staking out his 6 expos (5 gas) leaving mind with the other 6 (4 gas). Then Flash moved up a little denying mind one expo and starved him out.
(I was watching Boxer v Yellow too)
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Is there a less laggy stream for this match? se7en247's stream is kinda lagging and Challera's is low quality... don't want to sound like I'm complaining .
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On November 24 2009 19:07 Vasoline73 wrote:Is there a less laggy stream for this match? se7en247's stream is kinda lagging and Challera's is low quality... don't want to sound like I'm complaining .
http://ogn.ferron.pe/
Its working perfectly for me at least
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On November 24 2009 19:08 HopLight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:07 Vasoline73 wrote:Is there a less laggy stream for this match? se7en247's stream is kinda lagging and Challera's is low quality... don't want to sound like I'm complaining . http://ogn.ferron.pe/Its working perfectly for me at least Sweet :D. Usually that runs slow for me but today it's perfect yay
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I'm so sad, this is the first Flash game I have missed in ages. It was for a good reason though. Glad to hear he raped.
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haha so cholera's stream gets linked on YY now?o.O!
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Well there's no way I'm gonna watch Canata stretch out another tvt into next year, Go Luxury!!
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wow a few kt fans actually watched game 1?
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Luxury at bottom in teal Roro at top in orange Outsider
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Luxury overpool Roro 12pool
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Rofl, Flash vs Mind was a long and good game and just 4 sites, BoxeR vs YellOw has 20...^^
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16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ?
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count
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On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? I think its only PL or that the L is from a non sanctioned event so it doesn't count.
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Luxury manages to survive the pre-muta lings by throwing up a spore; he's made a 2nd hatchery in base (?). Roro meanwhile making spores. Luxury looks pretty fucked.
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On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count
So just proleague?
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Roro sees luxury has made a lot of lings so now he's not going to lose to them.
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On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? And starleagues I would imagine.
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This LR thread has so few comments. I'd rather watch this ZvZ than the TvT on the other channel though.
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The only important TvT Flash lost that doesn't get counted against him is the game in the GOM finals against Iris.
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On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague?
i think the loss came from his 3-1 win in the gom finals against iris. as gom isnt a kespa-sanctioned tournament, they dont count those games. i think its 16 wins in kespa-sanctioned games, ie pl, osl and msl.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? well koreans call it "Official"
Exclude GomTV and Event matches then yeah its 16
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Spire nearly done for Roro; luxury has a hatchery at his natural about halfway done Roro still hasn't taken his nat gas; has made a lot of lings Luxury's mutas are not in position to defend but he still has some lings so he's able to get a retreat out of Roro
Roro making more spores and has taken his nat gas and is making mutas.
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Luxury has his nat running (ie the gas) Muta battle, Roro has way more, Luxury attacking with lings and it's not going to work
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Aw Luxury . Nice try coming back from the BO disadvantage
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
God where did the days go where Luxury's ZvZ was second only to Jaedong... And now he loses to Roro. -_-;;;;
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On November 24 2009 19:22 darktreb wrote: The only important TvT Flash lost that doesn't get counted against him is the game in the GOM finals against Iris. What an awesome game that was nonetheless.
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On November 24 2009 19:21 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? And starleagues I would imagine.
Wasn't GOM a Starleague? :S Even if it was just 3 times..? Well I guess its an event then..
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On November 24 2009 19:25 SilverskY wrote: God where did the days go where Luxury's ZvZ was second only to Jaedong... And now he loses to Roro. -_-;;;;
Well to be fair, JD recently lost to Saint.....
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On November 24 2009 19:27 HopLight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:25 SilverskY wrote: God where did the days go where Luxury's ZvZ was second only to Jaedong... And now he loses to Roro. -_-;;;; Well to be fair, JD recently lost to Saint..... I consider Saint to be a pretty solid player, and much more skilled than Roro.
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On November 24 2009 19:26 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:21 Crunchums wrote:On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? And starleagues I would imagine. Wasn't GOM a Starleague? :S Even if it was just 3 times..? Well I guess its an event then.. Not Kespa sanctioned.
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On November 24 2009 19:25 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:22 darktreb wrote: The only important TvT Flash lost that doesn't get counted against him is the game in the GOM finals against Iris. What an awesome game that was nonetheless.
Yeah it was a great game by Iris. Rarely do you ever see somebody manage to control a TvT with THAT MUCH aggression.
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On November 24 2009 19:26 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:21 Crunchums wrote:On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? And starleagues I would imagine. Wasn't GOM a Starleague? :S Even if it was just 3 times..? Well I guess its an event then.. No, I think what might have you confused is that GOM used to sponsor the MSL Starleague for several seasons before founding his very own Gom Classic, that has lived this 3 seasons.
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Lux would ahve had that if he just made mutas
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On November 24 2009 19:29 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:26 G.s)NarutO wrote:On November 24 2009 19:21 Crunchums wrote:On November 24 2009 19:20 G.s)NarutO wrote:On November 24 2009 19:19 MrHoon wrote:On November 24 2009 19:18 G.s)NarutO wrote: 16 Wins? TLPD SAYS: W L W W W W W W W W So its 8.. ? Event matches dont count So just proleague? And starleagues I would imagine. Wasn't GOM a Starleague? :S Even if it was just 3 times..? Well I guess its an event then.. No, I think what might have you confused is that GOM used to sponsor the MSL Starleague for several seasons before founding his very own Gom Classic, that has lived this 3 seasons.
Nah, didn't confuse me. For me Gom Classics was a starleague, but well you are right, was not KeSpa sanctioned, thus, not counted. Thanks
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On November 24 2009 19:33 Scaramanga wrote: Lux would ahve had that if he just made mutas What was he supposed to do with them? Roro had lots of spores.
If there was one thing I think Luxury could have done it would be to put his 2nd hatch over a mineral wall but I guess that's not a good idea if he was trying to catch Roro off guard with lings.
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Shine top left in purple Firefist bottom right in white Fighting Spirit
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Man I've been playing so much Fighting Spirit on iccup recently... just weird to see it played. lol.
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Shine doing the Jaedong build! edit: or not? Lair? I have no idea what he's doing.
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Hoejja with build order advantage
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On November 24 2009 19:40 Crunchums wrote: Shine doing the Jaedong build! edit: or not? Lair? I have no idea what he's doing.
whats the JD build? o.o
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On November 24 2009 19:42 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:40 Crunchums wrote: Shine doing the Jaedong build! edit: or not? Lair? I have no idea what he's doing. whats the JD build? o.o g1 of osl finals vs yarnc it's like: extractor trick 10hatch 9pool 9ol 9gas get 100 gas for speed then take em off gas, mass lings
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Wow Firefist has Shine raped with this crazy build
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On November 24 2009 19:42 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:40 Crunchums wrote: Shine doing the Jaedong build! edit: or not? Lair? I have no idea what he's doing. whats the JD build? o.o Anything into gg?
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Shine's muta control is not good enough to save his natural hatchery in the face of 3 pairs of cloned scourge
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Hoejja in big trouble.. lost the nat to a bunch of lings... dude make another sunken you saw what was coming O_O
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On November 24 2009 19:43 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 19:42 SuperArc wrote:On November 24 2009 19:40 Crunchums wrote: Shine doing the Jaedong build! edit: or not? Lair? I have no idea what he's doing. whats the JD build? o.o g1 of osl finals vs yarnc it's like: extractor trick 10hatch 9pool 9ol 9gas get 100 gas for speed then take em off gas, mass lings
err Its not the JD build, this build has been used before its just not popular 10 or 9hat into pure speedling which can transition to effort spore style
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Firefist sporing up but his spores might not be in time; looks like they will though
both players with lings in eachothers' bases Shine with more mutas Firefist building a 3rd spore as lings nearly killed one of them
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whoops I have had the players backwards >__>
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also I have been calling Hoejja firefist
basically ignore me lol
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Hoejja with superior muta count but no spores; he just got his drones raped by mutas which should be gg
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Hoejja GG's I really want to see the playback on that one
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Man is anyone watching this other than me hahahaha
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gayness. Hoejja you saw the lings coming man! just lay two more sunks down or something seriously
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Please take this to ace, KT. I wanna see Flash.
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On November 24 2009 19:50 Vasoline73 wrote: gayness. Hoejja you saw the lings coming man! just lay two more sunks down or something seriously sunks don't actually do very much vs lings fwiw
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I'm not sure Hoejja could've done much at the point. His econ was constantly worse than Shine's so he couldn't really pump alot of lings/spare drones for sunnkens
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You don't think 2 more sunks (making it 3) in the back of Hoejja's nat along with the lings he already had would have held that attack?
I dunno. Either way he should have reacted a bit better since he saw them coming with his ovie.
Oh well hopefully Violet wins. I'll be sad if KT gets 1-3'ed Edit: I guess he was saving for mutas but you would figure the econ would be about the same.. the both 12 hatched... right?
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On November 24 2009 19:55 Vasoline73 wrote: You don't think 2 more sunks (making it 3) in the back of Hoejja's nat along with the lings he already had would have held that attack?
I dunno. Either way he should have reacted a bit better since he saw them coming with his ovie.
Oh well hopefully Violet wins. I'll be sad if KT gets 1-3'ed Edit: I guess he was saving for mutas but you would figure the econ would be about the same.. the both 12 hatched... right?
I dunno about their starting builds but Shine sniped a bunch of drones with lings/ mutas throughout the game... near the end I think he had 5 drones mining
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On November 24 2009 19:55 Vasoline73 wrote: You don't think 2 more sunks (making it 3) in the back of Hoejja's nat along with the lings he already had would have held that attack?
I dunno. Either way he should have reacted a bit better since he saw them coming with his ovie.
Oh well hopefully Violet wins. I'll be sad if KT gets 1-3'ed Edit: I guess he was saving for mutas but you would figure the econ would be about the same.. the both 12 hatched... right? 2 sunks is a fuckton of money
if there was one thing he could have done better in that attack it would have been his muta micro vs those scourge. he took forever to attack and once he did he didn't manage to save his mutas very much at all and meanwhile his nat hatch got raped. 3 muta vs 6 cloned scourge is definitely very hard though.
I am not sure if they both 12hatched. Hoejja definitely had muta superiority for a bit there; he could have used that time to pump drones and keep his mutas at home. That's a hard route to take as well; but dicking around with your mutas and letting your drones get raped in the process flat out loses you the game.
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REAVERRRR. Nice Violet!
Bad control from Pure though O_O
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Sick way to take it to ace Violet :D
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Violet takes that easy pz, time for flash to clean up
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Violet undefeated in proleague!!!!
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what happen in pure vs violet?:/
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Yay, ace game! Please send Flash!
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What? thats some scarce LR'ing... can anyone sum up what happened?
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United States23455 Posts
Hell yeah Violet.
Even when Luxury doesn't show up, Violet has become a good #1 Toss for Rolster. If he can continue this pace, I think they'll take #1 overall when the Proleague is all said and down. Now time for Flash to take down whoever Fox throws out and go 8-1.
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On November 24 2009 20:10 Itachii wrote: what happen in pure vs violet?:/
Lots of goon +2 reavers vs fewer goons + 1 reaver + nexus.
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Mirror builds... both go for reavers, Pure's reaver comes out a bit faster but he tries to break Violet's light contain outside his main and loses the shuttle + the reaver... Violet comes in 2 min later with 2 reavers + shuttle + goons and wins.
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On November 24 2009 20:11 meeple wrote: What? thats some scarce LR'ing... can anyone sum up what happened? Pure got pseudocontained, tried to break out with a reaver+shuttle except he totally failed because heartbreak ridge's choke is hard to break out of.
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Man I'm scared! Fox really gathering as a team for this. Hopefully Flash isn't taking this lightly
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On November 24 2009 20:12 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:11 meeple wrote: What? thats some scarce LR'ing... can anyone sum up what happened? Pure got pseudocontained, tried to break out with a reaver+shuttle except he totally failed because heartbreak ridge's choke is hard to break out of.
Thanks
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Mind for ace
KT sends out Violet
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VIOLET ACEEEEE NICE. I don't care if we lose now.
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51135 Posts
VIOLET FUCK YEH
confidence building exercise.
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Looks like Violet for Ace. Not a bad idea I think. KT needs to build another solid player and unlike the guys on Hwaseung Oz, Violet has a lot of potential and has actually been playing well in proleague.
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Mind vs Violet @ match point isn't match point t>p?
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Dude that is sick :D. This will hopefully keep Violet developing :D. Man I'm excited
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Violet vs Mind for ace.... not bad. Better than Flash vs Mind
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Damn, Violet's worst matchup is PvT.
I guess KT coaches thought WeMade wouldn't dare put up another T in the ace.
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On November 24 2009 20:15 Crunchums wrote: Mind vs Violet @ match point isn't match point t>p?
Not really its about even. However Violets PvT has never impressed me unfortunately...
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KTR kinda threw away the insta-win, though it's not like Violet can't deliver it.
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Oh snap. Flash would've been autowin vs Mind.
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Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak.
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Well at least TvP is Minds weakest matchup :/
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
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Would be huge for KT if Violet wins.
Then other teams will legitimately have to wonder about all three races (Flash/Luxury/Violet) in ace.
Also maybe Flash didn't feel like playing Match Point (which he has never played yet).
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On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak.
Yeah, I was just thinking they'd send Pure or some other P
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On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak.
No why, SKT1 also sent fantasy instead of Bisu.
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On November 24 2009 20:17 darktreb wrote: Would be huge for KT if Violet wins.
Was just thinking about this. Violet winning would really not only do him really well, but the team.
If he loses I'm still happy KTR puts enough faith into him to try him, but hopefully he wins :D
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On November 24 2009 20:16 Jakalo wrote: Well at least TvP is Minds weakest matchup :/ Only by the numbers, Mind can be a TvP beast.
As for match point, I hate playing PvT on it, I'm curious to see what has Violet planned for it. (carriers pls... but no, its going to be a 2base arb build.)
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wow violet for ace match. KT just earned some respect
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On November 24 2009 20:18 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak. No why, SKT1 also sent fantasy instead of Bisu. Of all the terrns other than Flash right now fantasy probably stood the best chance of beating flash tvt but he still didn't heh
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On November 24 2009 20:18 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak. No why, SKT1 also sent fantasy instead of Bisu. Different map. On Moon Glaive it was pretty much a given that it would be TvT. Stork v Hwasin being the exception I guess
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Wow, Violet raped Pure pretty hard.
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mind is 3-7 in last 10 tvp
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On November 24 2009 20:18 HopLight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak. Yeah, I was just thinking they'd send Pure or some other P Wait wemade has another protoss thats not pure?
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On November 24 2009 20:21 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:18 HopLight wrote:On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak. Yeah, I was just thinking they'd send Pure or some other P Wait wemade has another protoss thats not pure?
ROCK!!!!
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this map is sort of TvP imba. siegeable natural and shit
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why r they sending violet out especially on a map that statistically doesnt favor toss and darn its mind....flash would have loved to replay the 1st set
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United States23455 Posts
I like how when KT sends out someone who isn't Flash, people respect and think it's awesome. When OZ sends out anyone but Jaedong, they're idiotic.
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just calm down.
KT got this easy
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Honestly Flash vs Mind on Match Point isn't as autowin as it may seem.
Obviously Flash will win if it goes into end game in TvT but he has not played a televised match on Match Point (and presumably hasn't practiced as much TvT on it). Mind is arguably the scariest opponent when it comes to sick one time builds on new maps. If I was Flash I would have said "I'm worried enough about facing Mind on Moon Glaive, screw this I'm practicing for OSL" which is probably what ended up happening.
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well violet is actually a good choice because wemade wouldve expected flash. oz's choice to send killer for example is idiotc because he's the same race as jaedong.
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i became a violet fan after his game against hyuk, i hope he wins this one
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
why cant you guys understand this
TvT is FLash's least favorite MU He does not want to play TvT anymore
Let him be, he isn't slave labor terran anymore. Which is just good enough for me
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On November 24 2009 20:24 Fionn wrote: I like how when KT sends out someone who isn't Flash, people respect and think it's awesome. When OZ sends out anyone but Jaedong, they're idiotic.
Thread if KT sent out ForGG:
Person 1: OMG WTF LOL FORGG Person 2: KT coaches omfg -_- Person 3: lol Wemade 3-2 incoming -------------------------------------------------------- We respect Kt's choice because Violet is actually good.. and Killer and Lomo.. aren't. lol
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violet is the man tho, even though its gonna be a very even game imo (potentially anything can happen tho)
GO VIOLET
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On November 24 2009 20:26 MrHoon wrote: why cant you guys understand this
TvT is FLash's least favorite MU He does not want to play TvT anymore
Let him be, he isn't slave labor terran anymore. Which is just good enough for me
heh, no one likes playing TvT
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On November 24 2009 20:28 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:26 MrHoon wrote: why cant you guys understand this
TvT is FLash's least favorite MU He does not want to play TvT anymore
Let him be, he isn't slave labor terran anymore. Which is just good enough for me heh, no one likes playing TvT
playing many tvts prolly makes u age faster
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lol, flash will never lose in another tvt unless, mirror flash from another dimension plays regular flash then he might lose
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On November 24 2009 20:20 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 20:18 Jakalo wrote:On November 24 2009 20:16 PoP wrote: Pretty sure KT expected anyone but a Terran considering Flash's recent TvT streak. No why, SKT1 also sent fantasy instead of Bisu. Of all the terrns other than Flash right now fantasy probably stood the best chance of beating flash tvt but he still didn't heh Doubt that, even fantasy admitted that Flash has this huge big thing *shrug*
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On November 24 2009 20:30 noojOh wrote: lol, flash will never lose in another tvt unless, mirror flash from another dimension plays regular flash then he might lose lol Who would have though oov will ever lose a tvz after like... his 25th win in a row?:-p
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flash will lose an tvt after doing 14cc
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nah Upmagic is breaking Flash's streak for sure
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Very nice building placement from Violet but that drop still did a large amount of damage.
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On November 24 2009 20:34 Jackal03 wrote: flash will lose an tvt after doing 14cc I hope he never does 14 CC against T again. I mean, if he just gets to late game he's invincible no matter if he is at a disadvantage in the begining.
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Gah looking meh for Violet right now. Mind is gonna split the map
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Just as I say that niccccccccccccccce recall goes off!
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Brilliant suiciding the reaver to take out Mind's turrets to set up for a recall
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Violet keep him on his toes!
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Violet trying to take 2 more bases
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dude violet expanded like all over the map haha
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Mind hits both arbiters with an EMP
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CLUTCH EMP!!! Both vessels got hit
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fml are you serious Violet!? Spread your arbs . One EMP gets both of them, Violet deflected for now
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I think the commentators are talking about hos Mind could go emp+nuke to take out 6
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Man I think Violet is cracking under the pressure here
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Mind should try nuking that 7 o'clock base :D
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my god pls Violet don't win.
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What a terrible idea to insist going up that ramp. That area makes this map TvP imba.
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violet needs to recall if he wants to stay in this game
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Did his arbiter die to a turret??? WTF...
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NUKES?!?!
Mind destroying his comsat station at 11
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mind attacking his own comsat so he can go for nukes
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
MIND BUILDING NUCLEAR SILO? LOL
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On November 24 2009 20:48 meeple wrote: Did his arbiter die to a turret??? WTF... The funny thing is, it was a turret covering an other route, the arbiter couldnt even reach the turret defenses of his recall target
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VIOLET BREAKING COME ON DO ITTTTTTT
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Fuck you Mind. Nuking wtf. KTR FIGHTING!!
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Violet makes a pretty big miscalc, Mind had 2 tanks left and Violet pulls back
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violet is playing so badly, 0 game plan
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ah Violet loses a templar to mines carelessly. Nuke is ready, is the ghost? NUKE HAS BEEN LAUNCHED. EMP AND THE NEX GOES DOWN
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lol that was pretty pimp though I have to admit. With the EMP and all
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HAHAH YESSS... NUKES!!! THE NEXUS GOES DOWNN
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Wow, that is so imba. Terran can take out the expo from inside his base.
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thats a safe spot to nuke, it's almost impossible to avoid it (and it has been done before by fantasy)
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WeMade going to be #1 after round1? O.O
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fuck im gonna hate KTR coach so much for ruining my 6 LB streak =(
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wow nice storms, all the vessels are gone now
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wow this storm killed like endless vessels?
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this is what u get for not sending flash
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QUIT PLAYING WITH MY HEART VIOLET
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AWESOME stasis, got about 7 tanks
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Stasis fields on tanks allows Violet to push forward
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On November 24 2009 20:53 Vasoline73 wrote: Ugh it's GG soon -_- You were saying something? Violet just CRUSHED Mind's entire army
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Suicide high templar into tank! LOL
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lmao MINDS FACE omfg. Looks so surprised to be losing
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51135 Posts
ht walking bomb kills tank
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On November 24 2009 20:55 Chen wrote:You were saying something? Violet just CRUSHED Mind's entire army
It was fucking EPIC!
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What the hell is happening...
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On November 24 2009 20:44 Crunchums wrote: mind has this ez I stand corrected o.O
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On November 24 2009 20:55 Chen wrote:You were saying something? Violet just CRUSHED Mind's entire army Dude I admit that was insane. I'm sorry, I'm just an emotional Violet KT fan
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strange game, violet could have lost it twice already and now hes comming back
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Man intense game. Going back and forth so often.
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Violet taking out 6 o'clock expansion
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Dude this is a sick ass comeback. Mind only has 31 minerals!
Serves you right punk ass.
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Yesss, go Violet! Looks like Fantasy -> Violet was a good trade after all
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violet showing some awesome play
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On November 24 2009 20:58 cabarkapa wrote: NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED
did it not go off? :>
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FUCK YES :D, Violet you are the fucking man
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omfg Mind is pissed hahaha
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Mind so, so mad right now!!
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Mind GG's Violet and KTF take and EPIC game and match. Mind is not happy with himself.
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Man Mind is not happy with himself.
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51135 Posts
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On November 24 2009 20:59 Itachii wrote::> you saw nothing!
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VIOLETTTTTTTTTTTTTT. Sick comeback I'm sorry I doubted you!
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I'm usually happy for protoss wins, but this is just sad. Mind should have had this...
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GG Violet the comeback king!!
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you know, thats the difference between sending violet over flash to sending killer/lomo over jaedong:
violet actually is a good player and can win!
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That was epic push crush from Violet.
KT !
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LOL violet is still undefeated in pl.
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United States23455 Posts
And Violet picks up the victory.
KT Rolster now 8-1. Now they need to take down SPARKYZ and STX for the 10-1 round.
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Violet had no right winning that game :o
Mind was WTF at the end
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Gahhhh. I like Mind but serves him right for starting nukes before the game was even won.
As a terran player it's painful to see statsis turn around a game like that, but damn well played Violet
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On November 24 2009 20:59 Scaramanga wrote: FUCK YES :D, Violet you are the fucking man
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On November 24 2009 21:00 538 wrote: I'm usually happy for protoss wins, but this is just sad. Mind should have had this... Agreed.
I'm a KT fan but despite mistakes on both sides, it really seemed Mind played the superior game.
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Violet scores 10 points today. Nice.
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On November 24 2009 21:02 Vasoline73 wrote: Gahhhh. I like Mind but serves him right for starting nukes before the game was even one.
It's a pretty handy way to take down the 7 expansion.
I doubt Mind did it the cocky way.
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I was 100% sure that Mind was gonna win before that stasis
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Violet i love U so much!!!
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Most bullshit game of the year...please remove that shitty excuse for a map, violet had no excuse winning that.
And the nukes were just easy ways to kill expos without committing troops..duh. This match was terrible and utter nonsense.
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Violet is 6-0 now this PL.
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Mind has no one to blame but himself. Violet simply rolled Mind with stasis and storms. Let him pout all he wants. GG
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Haha I'm happy for Violet but how broken is P
Seriously I don't see how Terran can avoid getting their army stasised/stormed in the late game, the degree of difficulty is unbelievable.
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This game was pretty damn awesome.
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Yeah the map makes it ridiculously cost effective to get nukes. Total denial of the 7 o'clock base for almost no resources.
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On November 24 2009 21:02 Vasoline73 wrote: Gahhhh. I like Mind but serves him right for starting nukes before the game was even one.
As a terran player it's painful to see statsis turn around a game like that, but damn well played Violet What was wrong with starting nukes? Nukes are as you could see great on this map; he took out one of Violets expo's from inside his own base. The nukes did not cost him the game.
Great game. Recomended for sure.
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On November 24 2009 21:03 PoP wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 21:02 Vasoline73 wrote: Gahhhh. I like Mind but serves him right for starting nukes before the game was even won.
It's a pretty handy way to take down the 7 expansion. I doubt Mind did it the cocky way. I dunno >.>... <.<... honestly, I think that his overconfidence was exemplified by his reaction when losing. Nuking may not be as BM as I thought it was originally but you know.. makes you wonder.
And I don't know why people are blaming the map. Violet's clutch storms + statsis won the match and he deserved it. Mind got careless.
Credit where it's due. Violet GG :D. Happy for KT
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BTW Im sure Idra and artosis are somewhere banging their heads on cement.
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Mind wasnt even spreading his tanks, he was just pushmoving and expecting to win. He got arrogant in-game. (The nuke doesn't count because it surprisingly has a good use on this map).
Arrogance can be fatal late-game: just ask Savior after his MSL loss to FBH on Python.
Sidenote: One thing I like about Flash is that he NEVER gets arrogant in-game, no matter how far he's ahead.
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On November 24 2009 21:03 mog87 wrote: Most bullshit game of the year...please remove that shitty excuse for a map, violet had no excuse winning that. The map is actually imbalanced in the favor of terran in this matchup
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wow i am so sorry to all ktf fans and violet i turned the game off when violet was seemingly getting rolledf to go work on my essay now i come back and it seems like he won
I LOVE U VIOLET
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On November 24 2009 21:07 538 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 21:03 mog87 wrote: Most bullshit game of the year...please remove that shitty excuse for a map, violet had no excuse winning that. The map is actually imbalanced in the favor of terran in this matchup I think what he means is that Violet should have lost that game due to the imbaness, but somehow managed to pull some sexy sexy hair
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Yeah seriously Mind did not play a perfect late game at all... and the map late game favors T.. so :p
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pripple
Finland1714 Posts
i envy you KT fans, even if Flash doesn't get sent to the ACE someone else can seal the deal! can't be said about my beloved team ;< go Violet!
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even as a KT/violet fan, I dont understand how any one can be happy with the way he won, Violet was way too sloppy the entire game and loss so many battles before. But one good stasis/storm and its over for T.
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On November 24 2009 21:15 calvinL wrote: even as a KT/violet fan, I dont understand how any one can be happy with the way he won, Violet was way too sloppy the entire game and loss so many battles before. But one good stasis/storm and its over for T. I am, i dont really care how he won he just needed that confidence boost to push him into team ace, this is way better than another flash win in ace
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On November 24 2009 21:15 calvinL wrote: even as a KT/violet fan, I dont understand how any one can be happy with the way he won, Violet was way too sloppy the entire game and loss so many battles before. But one good stasis/storm and its over for T. Uh it was a cool comeback victory and we were excited that he pulled it through with clutch storms/statsis?
Violet obviously needs to work on his play (especially v T) but this is a good confidence booster for him so it's hard not to be excited for it's implications for KT as a team. (imo)
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flash vs mind would have been better ace imho... nevertheless, great last game
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Violet 13th in ELO, he'll be #2 in no time
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It was nice that they finished it all off with a non-mirror matchup, as I'm sure everybody was as fed up as me with mirrors.
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On November 24 2009 21:22 slimshady wrote: flash vs mind would have been better ace imho... nevertheless, great last game It would not have been better, it would've been a very one-sided rape. This game was exciting!
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Violet has been carving it up recently.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Flash now has 96 proleague wins!
He is currently 3rd in Proleague Wins, tied with Nada
in case you were wondering, Jaedong is 1st with 116 and Reach is 2nd with 103
Sauce
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On November 24 2009 21:06 t_co wrote: Mind wasnt even spreading his tanks, he was just pushmoving and expecting to win. He got arrogant in-game. (The nuke doesn't count because it surprisingly has a good use on this map).
Arrogance can be fatal late-game: just ask Savior after his MSL loss to FBH on Python.
Sidenote: One thing I like about Flash is that he NEVER gets arrogant in-game, no matter how far he's ahead.
he matrixed an overlord as a ceremony once
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Flash was arrogant after his OSL/Gom Invi win. Even he admits it himself. But lets be honest, all 4 Heavenly Kings were arrogant at one point of their career.
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Those who think using nuke is a sign of bm are simply ignorant. Especially on that map where the map editor should have put a label that reads "Beware of nuke, expand at your own risk" at that 7 o'clock base.
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<quick glance on violet's tlpd page> hmmm, hes a lot better player now
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To be totally sure that he wasnt being cocky/BM is willing ignorance imo. Mind had the game sealed around the time he started killing his scanner to add the silo and could have just slow push sweeped around the bottom of the map killing both of the expos down there. It's not like that terrain isn't buildable... just build turrents, mine the shit out of everything and move your tanks. Plus at that point I think Mind had a vessel for every arb Violet had.
I honestly think Mind's reaction at the end of the game is pretty telling that he knew he had a huge advantage at one point. Either way BM or not he definitely got overconfident and blew his lead.
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On November 24 2009 22:07 Vasoline73 wrote: To be totally sure that he wasnt being cocky/BM is willing ignorance imo. Mind had the game sealed around the time he started killing his scanner to add the silo and could have just slow push sweeped around the bottom of the map killing both of the expos down there. It's not like that terrain isn't buildable... just build turrents, mine the shit out of everything and move your tanks. Plus at that point I think Mind had a vessel for every arb Violet had.
I honestly think Mind's reaction at the end of the game is pretty telling that he knew he had a huge advantage at one point. Either way BM or not he definitely got overconfident and blew his lead. I don't think that's accurate. He was building a nuclear silo because it is actually extremely effective on this map. With it and an EMP, he singlehandedly knocked out that base. It wasn't BM.
Mind was ahead, but he was never that far ahead considering Violet was between 5-6 bases the entire second half of the game.
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Damn my new sleep schedule, I miss seeing these live...
Sounds like Flash won his TvT ezpz, and I'm thrilled to see that KT backhanded everyone who said KT is a one-man team by having Violet win the ace match.
Sounds like a lot of PvT imba complaining, and from the sounds of it, they're probably right...TvP is ridiculously hard for Terrans lately.
I doubt KT sent Violet out for PvT, though. They probably assumed Pure would be sent out, and sent Violet for his amazing PvP.
One more thing...Flash just needs 3 more TvT wins (or 2 if they're both against top-tier Terrans like Fantasy/Leta/Sea) to break 2300 ELO in TvT.
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Flash with 2354 ELO again, his peak before losing to Best! Hopefully he wins a couple more games against good players to oust Jaedong and Bisu as the highest elo.
His vT is obviously the best MU around right now, though.
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Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now).
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
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On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). Flash, Violet, Luxury ... and?
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On November 25 2009 01:11 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). Flash, Violet, Luxury ... and?
fOrGG
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On November 25 2009 01:11 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). Flash, Violet, Luxury ... and? I want to say forGG but I won't and say...Tempest instead! >_>
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What, no recommended games
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On November 25 2009 01:25 Tribulation wrote:What, no recommended games Game 5 (ace) was good =) Spectacular comeback by Violet.
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On November 25 2009 01:11 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). Flash, Violet, Luxury ... and?
SKT1-> Best Fantasy Bisu and Hyuk vs. any zerg.
Khan used to have 4 legit aces, but now has 2. Mostly Stork, sometimes great.
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On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now).
CJ kind of counts but, on paper atleast, their four man line up isn't as strong as KT's (Main ace, Flash is better than effort, Secondary, Lux is better than Skyhigh, and tertiary, Movie and Violet are close but I think Violet has become more consistent. Racewise Flash>Skyhigh, Effort>Lux, and Violet > or = Movie).
STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero.
I want to say SKT, but I honestly don't think Hyuk is ace material.
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I have to say, it is pretty disheartening to see a game like this (and SKT v. ACE spoilers + Show Spoiler +) from a T perspective. It's ridiculous how many armies toss can toss away once he gets up to 5-6 bases. I think terrans have to change the meta game and become more aggressive. Slow pushes just ain't working anymore.
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When your only viable unit vs Dragoons is siege tanks, you can't help but slow push. :>
I mean that's like saying Zerg shouldn't flank T armies anymore if TvZ suddenly became more statistically disparaged (Which it was the worst Matchup balance wise for years. Good ol T Bonjwas).
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On November 25 2009 02:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). CJ kind of counts but, on paper atleast, their four man line up isn't as strong as KT's (Main ace, Flash is better than effort, Secondary, Lux is better than Skyhigh, and tertiary, Movie and Violet are close but I think Violet has become more consistent. Racewise Flash>Skyhigh, Effort>Lux, and Violet > or = Movie). STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero. I want to say SKT, but I honestly don't think Hyuk is ace material.
I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.
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Norway1530 Posts
God damn Flash, stop owning so much >.<
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holy jesus violet is badass!
and of course flash is the master
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Violet's game wasn't that ridiculous, I went and watched it. It was a comeback, but not to the level T players are making it sound like. Violet was never really that far behind. Mind never had more than 3 mining bases, while Violet always had 4-5, normally having 5. Mind got way too aggressive with his final push and let all his tanks get stasised when he should probably have just defended his 4th, which shortly after died to a control group of goons and an archon.
Also, Violet almost never suicided his entire army, he just continually chipped away at the pushes while consistently making reinforcements. When he attacked right before the massive stasises, you could see on the minimap that it was only like 1/3 of his army, maybe even less. After Mind killed this, he unsieged, moved forward all clumptacularly, and got rolled by the waiting 100 supply of toss units and 3 stasis/massive storms.
edit : And Movie/Violet isn't really comparable. Violet has amazing PvP and very good PvZ, slightly above average PvT (which I actually think has gotten better recently, but not enough results to say yet - beating Skyhigh and Mind is pretty impressive though). while Movie has a very good PvZ and an average pvt. His PvP is way worse than Violet's weak matchup, and his pvz the only matchup he could be considered better at... the reason it isn't possible to compare them fairly though, is because it would be like comparing Sea to Hwasin .
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On November 25 2009 03:24 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 02:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). CJ kind of counts but, on paper atleast, their four man line up isn't as strong as KT's (Main ace, Flash is better than effort, Secondary, Lux is better than Skyhigh, and tertiary, Movie and Violet are close but I think Violet has become more consistent. Racewise Flash>Skyhigh, Effort>Lux, and Violet > or = Movie). STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero. I want to say SKT, but I honestly don't think Hyuk is ace material. I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.
Flash has beaten Effort the past 3 times they met this year, 2 times being a clinic on how to crush good zergs, and the other being an unassuming and kind of sad cheese.
Going back before Effort was amazing, Flash has a crushing 6-1 record over him.
Head to head, Flash is the CLEAR favorite, by a large margin. In the grand scheme of things as an ace/player overall, it might be closer given zerg maps etc, considering their current PL record for R1 is similar, with Flash being a bit ahead.
On November 25 2009 04:28 Nevuk wrote: edit : And Movie/Violet isn't really comparable. Violet has amazing PvP and very good PvZ, slightly above average PvT (which I actually think has gotten better recently, but not enough results to say yet - beating Skyhigh and Mind is pretty impressive though). while Movie has a very good PvZ and an average pvt. His PvP is way worse than Violet's weak matchup, and his pvz the only matchup he could be considered better at... the reason it isn't possible to compare them fairly though, is because it would be like comparing Sea to Hwasin .
Sea is a much better player than Hwasin (nothing against Hwasin, Sea's only problem is he chokes in leagues).
I just think both Movie and Violet have shown massive talent (so much so that I think the 6 dragons club needs some rearranging, honestly), but it's too early for us to say who's better. They both JUST recently started to come out of their shells in the 4th/5th round of last proleague. Violet seems to perform better in PL while Movie makes big splashes in SLs (heh sea vs hwasin analogy), so it's too early to say much.
I don't think it's a big leap to assume the differences of Flash and Luxury, two very tried and tested players, to anyone else, though.
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On November 25 2009 03:24 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 02:04 TwoToneTerran wrote:On November 25 2009 00:58 Nevuk wrote: Is KT now the only team with 4 legitimate ace options, and one from each race?
(I guess ACE counts too, but no one but Ruby should ever be their ace now). CJ kind of counts but, on paper atleast, their four man line up isn't as strong as KT's (Main ace, Flash is better than effort, Secondary, Lux is better than Skyhigh, and tertiary, Movie and Violet are close but I think Violet has become more consistent. Racewise Flash>Skyhigh, Effort>Lux, and Violet > or = Movie). STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero. I want to say SKT, but I honestly don't think Hyuk is ace material. I don't know, I'd rate Effort/Flash the same as Movie/Violet. It's damn close, but Flash has the tiny edge.
Tiny edge?
I love Effort, I really do...but the way Flash is playing TvZ right now lends to more than just a "tiny edge"
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I don’t understand why no one has commented on the fact that even though wemade guessed right, they still lost.
KT and Violet expected a non-terran
Fox and Mind expected a non-flash
To put it simply, the wemade coaches out-thought the KT coaches, and yet violet still managed to pull the win. I think that is commendable at the very least.
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
On November 24 2009 22:07 Vasoline73 wrote: To be totally sure that he wasnt being cocky/BM is willing ignorance imo. Mind had the game sealed around the time he started killing his scanner to add the silo and could have just slow push sweeped around the bottom of the map killing both of the expos down there. It's not like that terrain isn't buildable... just build turrents, mine the shit out of everything and move your tanks. Plus at that point I think Mind had a vessel for every arb Violet had.
I honestly think Mind's reaction at the end of the game is pretty telling that he knew he had a huge advantage at one point. Either way BM or not he definitely got overconfident and blew his lead. this would have been a good post if it didn't include 'BM'
seriously, the term 'BM' is being misused
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Yeah I guess it's not really BM, just overconfidence. I think I was just mad when it looked like Violet was going to lose so I was pissed at Mind.
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On November 25 2009 02:04 TwoToneTerran wrote: STX has Calm/Kal/Hwasin/By.Hero.
Don't forget about Modesty and July. STX Z lineup is pretty damn solid.
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Neither of them are legit aces, even if STX will put out Modesty the same way Oz puts out Killer.
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omfg, i just realized i had violet on my anti team. fmfpl... and roro... wow, my first fpl is such a failure
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GJ Violet. Can't wait to watch his games. The kid has lots of potential. He is now 4th highest ranked protoss according to TLPD. And half a year ago he had ELO of 1988 or sth like that. What a change...
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gj violet on the reaver break
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FLASH VIOLET!!!! Sucks Mind lost twice though... I always cheer for Wemade if it isn't vs KT
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
lol im rewatching game 1 and the referee said 요
wtf?
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
okay im watching the ace match
and im going, how the fuck did violet win (or mind lose) this?
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
OH WOW
that 1 battle
such sexy stasis
great storms
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Violet did two big sexy pushes that worked wonders. Specially the second where Mid was overconfident and got stasised and stormed to hell xd
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Yeah, Violet pulled off some amazing tank massacres. Not sure why OP hasn't recommended the ace match.
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well.. Flash on a TvT win streak that is ridic
and Violet looks to be the next big thing. nice
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