Thats not even blind fanboyism... EffOrt and Movie have both been dominating recently... and fbh has been sucking so bad I don't even remember what its like to picture him winning.
Game 1: Really intense low/no - econ zvz Game 2: Must watch... I Just gotta say DAs. Game 3: Long tvt... but ... almost nukes? You can basically Just skip to the End for this one. It doesn't Really matter how it got there. Game 4: I loved this zvz play for some reason... so much muta+ling cooperative play by the winner. Closer: Epic... Everyone basically missed a really crucial part since every stream went down. However, I saw the end... and it was fantastic.
On November 10 2009 09:25 On_Slaught wrote: Skyhigh v FBH... battle of the scrubs.
Why does jan absolutely refuse to play Stork/Jangbi?
Same reason Oz plays Killer for Ace. Jan knows the reason Khan used to be such a powerhouse is because they are or were a extremely well rounded and flexible team and that she could usually always send out the best possible player to match the situation. She doesn't want to be depending on 1 or 2 players because that will horribly cut down on her ability to send out the right person in the right time.
Besides, this is still round 1. She knows Stork still got it but she needs to test if the other starters still got it or if any of the new players got a shot. So please, please FBH, don't get depromoted to B-team T-T.
P.S. It seems a lot of zergs are Khan fans... interesting.
I think KHAN will win this easy. They are just on fire right now and coming into the match with a great deal of momentum. Great has been more than living up to his name with creative plays like pool sniping, FBH has nearly surpassed hero level and entered FBL (FirebatLegend) status due to how he comes back from early game disadvantages to take the win again and again, and M18M, well, who can bet against a guy that has convincingly beaten powerhouses like Britney and pepe?
I don't know who Juni is but I'm sure if he plays for a team as prestigious and talented as Samsung KHAN he can't be any worse than an A-rank player.
FBH CAN WIN!!! PLEASE MY FANTASY TEAM IS DYING LOL
either way, 3-0 or 3-1 CJ. If it goes to ace match, 3-2 Khan
On November 10 2009 10:30 StorkHwaiting wrote: I think KHAN will win this easy. They are just on fire right now and coming into the match with a great deal of momentum. Great has been more than living up to his name with creative plays like pool sniping, FBH has nearly surpassed hero level and entered FBL (FirebatLegend) status due to how he comes back from early game disadvantages to take the win again and again, and M18M, well, who can bet against a guy that has convincingly beaten powerhouses like Britney and pepe?
I don't know who Juni is but I'm sure if he plays for a team as prestigious and talented as Samsung KHAN he can't be any worse than an A-rank player.
My hopes that have no chance of success: great>EffOrt (gonna be EffOrt) Movie>M18M (Movie's on my FPL, and this prediction might be right) firebathero>sKyHigh (Isn't TvT FBH's only somewhat decent matchup now? Still gonna be sKyHigh) Hydra>Juni (Might be right since Hydra isn't on KHAN; I wanna see Stork) ACE: Stork>anyone (Not gonna get here)
On November 10 2009 10:30 StorkHwaiting wrote: I think KHAN will win this easy. They are just on fire right now and coming into the match with a great deal of momentum. Great has been more than living up to his name with creative plays like pool sniping, FBH has nearly surpassed hero level and entered FBL (FirebatLegend) status due to how he comes back from early game disadvantages to take the win again and again, and M18M, well, who can bet against a guy that has convincingly beaten powerhouses like Britney and pepe?
I don't know who Juni is but I'm sure if he plays for a team as prestigious and talented as Samsung KHAN he can't be any worse than an A-rank player.
On November 10 2009 10:40 wok wrote: I'm getting tired of not seeing the dino-toss or the J-Dong being played for their respective teams. Round 2 come already ffs.
On November 10 2009 10:40 wok wrote: I'm getting tired of not seeing the dino-toss or the J-Dong being played for their respective teams. Round 2 come already ffs.
Jaedong gets played every single time. Sometimes not for ace, but still.
Maybe Stork is already practising for WCG? Bisu has already played this week, and JD needs only to practice his vP, while Stork needs vP and vZ. I know it's not very probable, but who knows.
On November 10 2009 09:19 iamho wrote: EffOrt>great anyone remember that game Where great went 9p speed against EffOrt's 12h and still lost? Movie<M18M Movie is Only good at SaiR/reaver and pvz timing pushes sKyHigh<firebathero sKyHigh has been awful lately, fbh's tvt is still Okay Hydra<Juni terrible game, tossup
Movie >M18M Movie's PvP is hard to gauge, it can be solid one week, and abysmal the next. M18M is in a similar boat, what he's displayed so far has been solid, but he's a little bit more of an unknown commodity. Essentially a toss-up on this one, but Movie's been playing more recently, and his confidence has got to be high.
sKyHigh >firebathero I'd say that the only match-up of FBH that hasn't slipped would be his TvT, and that's partially true- he always gives great games against Flash. But he also has failed against everyone else recently, and it's just hard to pick someone who's been slumping as long as FBh has as the favorite. Especially against sKyHigh. Now sKyHigh's signature match-up is TvT, but it hasn't looked that way recently, with agonizing losses to Mind, RuBy, and Sea. The funny thing is that sKyHigh has not played poorly in these games, but he hasn't played brilliantly either. This is his best chance to turn things around. If it gets that far... Hydra >Juni I'd be very surprised if EffOrt somehow drops set #1, but I could easily see Movie or sKyHigh falling to slightly worse, yet capable opponents in the second and third sets. But Juni is on a five match losing strea in ZvZ, while Hydra - overshadowed by Movie yet one of CJ's brightest prospects - has two ZvZ wins this PL season. I'd take Hydra here.
CJ is essentially the favorite in all four match-ups, albeit a slight favorite in three of them. They should beat the struggling KHAN.
EDIT: I'd be so down for a EffOrt v. Stork ACE match though, their last match-up was a fantastic game.
On November 10 2009 11:30 lone_hydra wrote: I don't know man, Stork has been beasting zergs lately. He beat JD 2-0 the last time they played and he's been pretty solid as of late.
A thousand times this.
his PvZ is beastly.
I await to see how his PvP fairs, although not a lot of other protosses are performing that strongly.
On November 10 2009 10:30 StorkHwaiting wrote: I think KHAN will win this easy. They are just on fire right now and coming into the match with a great deal of momentum. Great has been more than living up to his name with creative plays like pool sniping, FBH has nearly surpassed hero level and entered FBL (FirebatLegend) status due to how he comes back from early game disadvantages to take the win again and again, and M18M, well, who can bet against a guy that has convincingly beaten powerhouses like Britney and pepe?
I don't know who Juni is but I'm sure if he plays for a team as prestigious and talented as Samsung KHAN he can't be any worse than an A-rank player.
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
Yawn, its not like cj is doing so hot right now. Only effort is playing consistently. Movie is winning his games then losing his games, skyhigh is losing a lot lately, and who the fuck is hydra?
On November 10 2009 12:31 Gann1 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Khan manages to win this by taking it to ace, and then sending Stork (please, not Miracle again)
my fingers are crossed
effort would prob beat stork, again. :\ m18m will beat movie, his pvp has looked pretty solid so far in pl.
On November 10 2009 12:31 Gann1 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Khan manages to win this by taking it to ace, and then sending Stork (please, not Miracle again)
my fingers are crossed
effort would prob beat stork, again. :\ m18m will beat movie, his pvp has looked pretty solid so far in pl.
I think Stork would fair much better on Fighting Spirit than he did on Outsider. Just look at the map layout, completely different.
Anyway this looks heavily favorable for CJ so I'm going to predict Samsung to win 3-0.
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
I can make an argument that FirebatHero beats Skyhigh. Skyhigh sucks balls right now. he's 1-7 with his only win coming against firefist. Yeah Firebathero's also shitting it up, so we're going to see a match of heavily slumping players who used to be godly at TvT. Its not like Skyhigh is the beastly 70% TvTer of old vs slumptastic FBH like you make it seem
On November 10 2009 12:59 NeverGG wrote: That banner makes me happy I think CJ will win tonight.
I'm glad it makes you happy. I even found a use for one of the kitty pics.
Thanks for all the compliments guys, it really makes the time spent worth it.
Yeah, I must say, meeple, it took me a second to understand FBH was in the mirror. Then I realized what you did and started smiling. Very clever banner and pretty as well .
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
I can make an argument that FirebatHero beats Skyhigh. Skyhigh sucks balls right now. he's 1-7 with his only win coming against firefist. Yeah Firebathero's also shitting it up, so we're going to see a match of heavily slumping players who used to be godly at TvT. Its not like Skyhigh is the beastly 70% TvTer of old vs slumptastic FBH like you make it seem
that "of old" was like a month ago people lose games. it doesnt mean anything has fundamentally changed.
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
I can make an argument that FirebatHero beats Skyhigh. Skyhigh sucks balls right now. he's 1-7 with his only win coming against firefist. Yeah Firebathero's also shitting it up, so we're going to see a match of heavily slumping players who used to be godly at TvT. Its not like Skyhigh is the beastly 70% TvTer of old vs slumptastic FBH like you make it seem
that "of old" was like a month ago people lose games. it doesnt mean anything has fundamentally changed.
great > EffOrt Great has been doing fine, just hope he BO owns or has better mechanics. M18M > Movie Movie is not that great pvp mirror, when M18M has...should be interesting, ill give it to M18 firebathero > sKyHigh FBH will end up breaking out of his slump..i can feel it now...only a matter of time, hope this is it.
I think the problem with KHAN right now is that there are not enough flexibility in the Terran lineup. January keeps sending FBH to lose, but KHAN really has no other good T to offer (seriously, Frozean would have been good).
It is only Round 1, but January really can't let KHAN fall this far back in the standings. They've only beaten ACE so far, and they could easily finish Round 1 with a record of 2-9/3-8, which really isn't a good star. Jangbi, and especially Stork, are good, but I don't even think they can carry this team if they fall all the way back. Their best hope is go into Winner's League and hope for Stork to smash everyone in 2010.
On November 10 2009 10:06 Nevuk wrote: Movie has the worst pvp of any commonly played protoss. It's really, really bad. Worse than Perfectman or backho.
Backho I can believe, but how can you say Movie's PvP is worse than a player whose sole victory in recent televised games is against HakSoo?
Movie's PvP is inconsistent. That's not the same thing as being bad. In a match between an inconsistent player and a bad player, I'd bet on the inconsistent player.
In regards to Skyhigh vs FBH, it's closer that people are making it out. The "players lose games" argument works both ways. Both are capable of top-tier TvT, and both have been playing like trash recently (though FBH arguably trashier). We'll see.
Effort > Great Movie > M18M Skyhigh < Firebathero Hydra > Juni
On November 10 2009 18:47 Chen wrote: Effort with clearly better micro during the entire game, yet loses the game. great saving soo many more drones during base trade was huge i guess
Effort with better micro great with better brains. Brains > micro.
On November 10 2009 18:47 Chen wrote: Effort with clearly better micro during the entire game, yet loses the game. great saving soo many more drones during base trade was huge i guess
What? I didnt see that superior micro. Great was on par with him in air battles, and Effort maybe even took more scourge hits! The only thing that Effort was better in this game is positioning, he distracted the mutas 3-4 times to go in for some succesful drone snipes. Too bad he chickened out at the base trade, and moved back, so great could restart earlier.
Effort fanboys must have been blinded by tears if they think he had better micro, Effort had more mutas before they got raped by nicely microed scourge when he went back to save his base.
the real problem was after killing the drones, he stoped the mutas for a brief moment. Great flew with his mutas and managed to hit effort mutas without being retaliated (because of his scourges) and killed all of them without any losses
M18M adds 4 HT before even considering DT. Scouting probe sees the single reaver defending Movie's expansion. With this kind of setup (faster expo, faster templars), M18M is in a good spot, unless he gets heavy harassment.
Shuttle moving in for Movie, but a cannons spots it right away. Now both macroing off2 bases, I think movie might still have slightly more supply. Observer dies in M18M's base and he looks like expanding once more.
Battle breaks out at the ramp. No major losses yet, most temps still up for M18M. he has his min only fully running now, Movie is setting up his. Battle breaks out. Feedback kills 2 templars, one storm goes off.
Movie crushing M18M's army here, he has more stuff.
M18M forsakening his expansion, but Movie does not pursue once he destroys it. Now movie is pushing towards the natural with his large blob. I think he is almost through.
Da snipes another temp before it gets chased and taken out. DT chopping at Movie's army, obs approaching and DT is taken out.
M18M setting up his min only again. But He is going for a counter with Zealots and some DT. Movie attacking into that base, loses both reavers to good storms. But still Movie has lots more.
The DT cut down the Min only, but Movie has taken top left instead. DT heading there, but there is a cannon set up. M18M going for an attack towards that base, probably his last all-in, but Movie will have more units in any case.
Movie stops M18M at the narrow ramp. Some zeals snuck into top left and destroy cannons and some probes. Good move overall by M18M, but the base is defended. Minonly being set up for the Samsung player once more. Movie also rebuilt his min only nexus. Movie attacking towards M18M's high ground again. Storms raining down, Reaver dropped.
Crazy game. FBH tries to overrun Skyhigh's sieged tanks with unsieged tanks, but doesn't realize how much depth Skyhigh has and his force gets severely mauled.
WHAT?! agree with effort killing great. ok lets assume ur right and movie loses. FBH is not gonna beat anybody, especially not skyhigh. theres no argument to be made against this then the other CJ guy loses.
then ACE MATCH, where effort jumps on and rips to pieces the Khan ace.
so the WORST case scenario is Entus 3-2, not khan 3-1. i appreciate ur optimism and stork is still my fav toss of all time, but khan sucks too badly right now, my friend.
I can make an argument that FirebatHero beats Skyhigh. Skyhigh sucks balls right now. he's 1-7 with his only win coming against firefist. Yeah Firebathero's also shitting it up, so we're going to see a match of heavily slumping players who used to be godly at TvT. Its not like Skyhigh is the beastly 70% TvTer of old vs slumptastic FBH like you make it seem
On November 10 2009 20:13 Holgerius wrote: Skyhigh on a 4 game loss streak in TvT. And he's supposed to be as good as Flash? :D Flash has never lost 4 TvT's in a row during his entire career...
it's first time to skyhigh losing this much, he never lost 2 in a row and now he lost 4
On November 10 2009 20:13 Holgerius wrote: Skyhigh on a 4 game loss streak in TvT. And he's supposed to be as good as Flash? :D Flash has never lost 4 TvT's in a row during his entire career...
"Hey guys, watch me kick someone more when he is down."
I was late to the game. Can anyone tell me if EffOrt and sKyHigh lost in a I-lost-this-one-but-rebound-back way or man-im-sinking-into-an-endless-slump way?
On November 10 2009 20:34 538 wrote: i thought juni had this at a certain point :o
lol when?
Hydra had spores at his bases all the time
Short after his attack oh hydra's nat, when he got his 3rd hatch up with the 2nd gas successfully, and won a muta fight shortly after. Meh, I dont know much about zvz.
On November 10 2009 20:37 alffla wrote: Race Stats (non-mirrors): TvZ: 5-0 (100%) [ Games ] ZvP: 2-3 (40%) [ Games ] PvT: 3-5 (37.5%) [ Games ]
wtf lol ..hmm who will they send
LOL CONGRATS KONA!!
To be fair, most of the Terran wins over Zerg had the better Terran winning. Leta, Midas, Skyhigh and Flash are better than Hyvaa, Killer, Firefist, and Kwanroll respectively. The only one that was kind of a close matchup than Leta vs. Zero.
No clue why Khan didn't send FBH. He isn't in the best of form, but he won today, so he has momentum. CJ isn't likely to send a Protoss. The map favours Terran over Zerg.
On November 10 2009 20:47 Syntax Lost wrote: No clue why Khan didn't send FBH. He isn't in the best of form, but he won today, so he has momentum. CJ isn't likely to send a Protoss. The map favours Terran over Zerg.
FBH has nothing when hes facing z, not to mention p Jangbi is a good choice, he was benching for some time now and hopefuly for Khan he got his PvZ timings back becouse last time he played it, it was just horrible.
You have to remember, a lot of the coaches decisions are based on what they see in practice and what their players tell them about how they feel on certain maps. What they look at specifically when they make their Ace Match calls, I don't know, but the coaches make their calls based on information TLPD doesn't have.
On November 10 2009 21:04 nebffa wrote: haha dont think effort expected all that. he had to use a LOT of gas on scourge to get rid of the corsairs, nice harass by jangbi
Unfortunately for Jangbi, that wasn't harassment. He took out a handful of drones and lings and sniped a spawning pool. Now Effort is up to 4 base hive tech and Jangbi is lost most of his army.
On November 10 2009 21:06 meeple wrote: Ultras coming out... I love this old style of zvp
Fixed :D.
It's either - Mass hydra with mutas/lurks (Aggressive midgame, aim to kill army) or - Fast Lurker (Or Mass sunk -> a view lurks on 4 player maps) -> Skip any hydras or large amounts of lurks -> Hive techuu :D.
WHAT ? jangbi didnt even have a 3rd left. where would he get his minerals from? plenty of time for effort to get his top left full defence and produce enough units to take out jangbis army
Effort just had too many bases... Jangbi would have to shut down the upper bases, or else ultras will just keep popping. Effort can afford to lose ultras. Jangbi can't affort losing archons, or rvrs(2 rvrs dead = gg)
On November 10 2009 21:16 Scaramanga wrote: there was a blackout at ogn, the computers all crashed hence all the streams are down, their gonna have to re
I'll bet Effort won that, thinking about it. If he could just take out that one force of Jangbi's, no matter how much damage he took, he would be way ahead.
jangbi mistake was his drop, should have get +1 and snipe every air. This map allows zerg to skip hydras and use 3 lurkers on the choke and teching to hive
Damn... JangBi could have won that. Why are protosses (not just JangBi) so bad at handling ling raids on their expansions? They *have* to know that they're coming. JangBi was constantly moving his units away from the action.
Phew those were some tense moment when the stream died. Glad CJ pulled this one, but they better start to get a grip, they can´t just rely on Movie and EffOrt with the occasional help of one of the rookies. sKyHigh, Savior and Iris need to step it up.
I like this style of zerg play, but i always feel like there's a big chance that the zerg will die to the protoss hanbang army (like how effort almost did).
Jangbi wouldve had the game if he didnt let the zerglings do so much damage.
He shouldve spilt his army to protect expansions and expand even more. But instead was wondering his army around the map while letting zerglings deny his expansions.
maybe P should change to sair/reaver on such maps and using reavers+cannons to guard each expo, very similar to HBR where 12 lings to each expo is enough even if toss get 6 bases
does effort really play like this: i thought mutaling--> ultraling was an outdated strat that zerg players had collectively given up for 5 hatch hydra since about march (or when bisu got crushed by his 3 zerg group at lost saga msl)
This was by far the best series I've seen from Khan this season, I hope they keep it up. Even if they lost, it was by a very small amount and some of their players are looking to come out of their slumps. Times of looking up.
I'm happy for Effort, he played well and deserved that win. I hope he can improve and refine his build even further. That was some excellent ling harass he had there.
Twas a GG. I'm thinking Jangbi might have been able to pull that out if he went top left instead of bottom left. I mean, with the size of Jangbi's force + upgrades, ultras were the only thing that could stop him... Plus Effort's main was already mined out and such. Then again, there was no way Jangbi could've known the cavern was a top left. Thoughts?
I wake up and see another Khan loss and this time in ACE. Gotta check the vods to see if JangBi straighten up his play.
Pros: Firebathero finally won, great won a ZvZ, JangBi showed up. Khan is better than Oz Cons: Juni still sucks, Stork is only focusing on OSL. Samsung FPL team has -2 points (must be fist time in history a team has given you minus points)
On November 10 2009 23:02 InDaHouse wrote: I wake up and see another Khan loss and this time in ACE. Gotta check the vods to see if JangBi straighten up his play.
Pros: Firebathero finally won, great won a ZvZ, JangBi showed up. Khan is better than Oz Cons: Juni still sucks, Stork is only focusing on OSL. Samsung FPL team has -2 points (must be fist time in history a team has given you minus points)
On November 10 2009 21:31 Jackal03 wrote: with iris bad and skyhigh slumping, CJ needs a good terran in their lineup
It's all about ranking tournaments... and racism. Anyways i just hope sKyHigh can overcome this slump, he is very young and the success he had in the playoffs was prolly too much for him... :'(
On November 10 2009 23:02 InDaHouse wrote: I wake up and see another Khan loss and this time in ACE. Gotta check the vods to see if JangBi straighten up his play.
Pros: Firebathero finally won, great won a ZvZ, JangBi showed up. Khan is better than Oz Cons: Juni still sucks, Stork is only focusing on OSL. Samsung FPL team has -2 points (must be fist time in history a team has given you minus points)
On November 10 2009 23:02 InDaHouse wrote: I wake up and see another Khan loss and this time in ACE. Gotta check the vods to see if JangBi straighten up his play.
Pros: Firebathero finally won, great won a ZvZ, JangBi showed up. Khan is better than Oz Cons: Juni still sucks, Stork is only focusing on OSL. Samsung FPL team has -2 points (must be fist time in history a team has given you minus points)
sKyHigh looked so promising for CJ, He was on a roll for so long last year with consistent results...but now he's out of both starleagues and on a 4 Game lose streak in SPL... gah, what am I going to do, they should just start playing Idra, he'd probably do just as well at the moment.
On November 10 2009 21:26 d_so wrote: does effort really play like this: i thought mutaling--> ultraling was an outdated strat that zerg players had collectively given up for 5 hatch hydra since about march (or when bisu got crushed by his 3 zerg group at lost saga msl)
Out of all the top zergs, Effort has always had the most different style. For a little while, Effort was the only top Zerg going 3hatch in ZvT for almost all of his games when everyone else was going 2hatch, and him and Calm were one of the first to use mass mutaling -> ultraling off of the neo-sauron build instead of going mass hydra. Effort's been using the mutaling -> lurkers/hive tech for a while now.
What I think I've learned from this season is that every single proleague team can have a good season because quality of players of every team is so high.
Khan may be screwed as of now, but who knows what the future brings. I was really impressed by the way Firebathero and Jangbi played today, it really felt like 2008 again.
On November 11 2009 03:18 Athos wrote: What I think I've learned from this season is that every single proleague team can have a good season because quality of players of every team is so high.
Khan may be screwed as of now, but who knows what the future brings. I was really impressed by the way Firebathero and Jangbi played today, it really felt like 2008 again.
Yep, just look at fox and estro. Not even close to bottom this round.
There is no "this team will always win" team, thats whats so exciting about SPL. :D
On November 11 2009 03:18 Athos wrote: What I think I've learned from this season is that every single proleague team can have a good season because quality of players of every team is so high.
Khan may be screwed as of now, but who knows what the future brings. I was really impressed by the way Firebathero and Jangbi played today, it really felt like 2008 again.
Just remember that it's not over as of yet. SKT sucked balls in Round 1 last year going something like a hideous 4-8 and came back to grab a 2nd seed. It's certainly not out of the question for Khan. If Jangbi and FBH can play on a decent level once again like they did today, then they have a legit shot at bouncing back. Stork/Jangbi/Great/FBH is a pretty good combo of players if they play decent.
On November 11 2009 13:23 usopsama wrote: Jangbi, you failure.
Actually he showed some signs of recovery.
Even though FBH won... he still isn't playing good cause he almost let skyhigh come back. Jangbi played pretty good and it was a very close game vs. effort.
On November 11 2009 13:23 usopsama wrote: Jangbi, you failure.
Actually he showed some signs of recovery.
This.
Frankly I wouldn't expect a slumping Jangbi to beat one of the most solid Zerg at the moment either.
He could have won that game. He lost because his multitask and game sense is just abysmal now. He tried to harass Effort's 9 o'clock with a naked shuttle while his huge archon/goon force mopped up the main. Why would you just give away 2 reaver/shuttle like that? The reavers EASILY could have gone home to defend and help JB get an expo up. Instead he just gave them away.
And then his archon/goon force just milled around for half a day before taking out the 9 o'clock. Even though Effort obv could not defend it at that point because he was still massing ultas.
Jangbi played that one like a slow-witted B-rank player. Which he is not. Effort was mentally ahead of him the entire game. Jangbi ran back and forth, looking lost at how to counter lings. His one strat the entire game consisted of massing a ton of corsairs in secret and then trying to backstab Effort with a 3x DT drop in the main. What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
And Jangbi goes for this strat when Effort has a huge simcity defense so Jangbi couldn't take advantage of Effort spending a ton of gas on scourge anyway. It was a HORRIBLE strat and he gave up a ridic amount of gas because of that. Think how much sooner JB could have had that critical mass of archon/reaver if it weren't for his idiotic sair/dt attempt.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
I think you have no clue what starcraft is if you dont know what a spawning pool costs =P In all seriousness why the hell would the toss army want to engage in the center? you're begging to be flanked/surrounded and the last thing you want to do in PvZ is an army trade cause zerg remakes theirs about 5 times faster than you. Go for the main, kill the TECH and production so he can't mass ultra-ling or he does so slower or force him to defend in a choke where storms do the most damage, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
I think you have no clue what starcraft is if you dont know what a spawning pool costs =P In all seriousness why the hell would the toss army want to engage in the center? you're begging to be flanked/surrounded and the last thing you want to do in PvZ is an army trade cause zerg remakes theirs about 5 times faster than you. Go for the main, kill the TECH and production so he can't mass ultra-ling or he does so slower or force him to defend in a choke where storms do the most damage, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
I think you have no clue what starcraft is if you dont know what a spawning pool costs =P In all seriousness why the hell would the toss army want to engage in the center? you're begging to be flanked/surrounded and the last thing you want to do in PvZ is an army trade cause zerg remakes theirs about 5 times faster than you. Go for the main, kill the TECH and production so he can't mass ultra-ling or he does so slower or force him to defend in a choke where storms do the most damage, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
I think you have no clue what starcraft is if you dont know what a spawning pool costs =P In all seriousness why the hell would the toss army want to engage in the center? you're begging to be flanked/surrounded and the last thing you want to do in PvZ is an army trade cause zerg remakes theirs about 5 times faster than you. Go for the main, kill the TECH and production so he can't mass ultra-ling or he does so slower or force him to defend in a choke where storms do the most damage, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
The drone costs 50 minerals =P
can you answer the SERIOUS part of my question? -.- I actually want to know about that.
What kind of stupid strat is that on this map where you have to fly over an expo to get to the main and the entire way is riddled with scourge/overlords and he has 3 hatcheries with which to spawn overlords from?
it worked, he sacked the pool and eventually the main didn't he?
in any case, it's fairly easy to make a strategic assessment like that after the fact, but to say Jangbi played like a b-rank player is ridiculous. He pushed Effort to the edge, and I'm sure many people watching thought a gg was coming after the sack on main.
I think the reason why people are encouraged by Jangbi in this game is because he demonstrated something we haven't seen before. When was the last time you have seen Jangbi controlling a Protoss army of that size and diversity against an equally large Zerg army? Just the fact that he incorporated all those different units and controls into one hanbang was formidable to witness. There's probably just a very small handful of Zerg players that could have won this game.
It worked? Kill a 250 mineral building in exchange for a corsair fleet + shuttle + 3 dts? That sounds like a good trade to you?
Did you see Effort short on lings? He took the main because Effort was transitioning to Ultra/Ling and wasn't ready to take on the Toss ball of death at that point. Think how much better JB would have done if he had that ball 3 minutes earlier!
Maybe if you don't know how to count bases you would think a GG was coming from Effort after JB took the main, but it was plain as day to me that he was losing. It's not some stupid observation in hindsight. How do you compare 3 bases vs ZERO mining? You think 6 archons and some dragoons are going to overrun 3 bases pumping Ultra/ling? Sorry, but you have no clue what SC is if you think JB had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the game at that point.
His "hanbang" (which I have no clue why you would call it that because there wasn't a single thing timed about the attack) was a desperation move. If Toss is in a good position, they're not going to go bulldozing into a Zerg's main when it's mined out. They're going to sit back and keep macroing, while defending with reaver/templars and harassing the new expos until they can beat the zerg army in the middle. Jangbi's attack was just for the hell of it because he knew it was utterly hopeless past that point.
I think you have no clue what starcraft is if you dont know what a spawning pool costs =P In all seriousness why the hell would the toss army want to engage in the center? you're begging to be flanked/surrounded and the last thing you want to do in PvZ is an army trade cause zerg remakes theirs about 5 times faster than you. Go for the main, kill the TECH and production so he can't mass ultra-ling or he does so slower or force him to defend in a choke where storms do the most damage, seems like a reasonable idea to me.
The drone costs 50 minerals =P
can you answer the SERIOUS part of my question? -.- I actually want to know about that.
It's Fighting Spirit dude. Where else are you going to fight? Look at how the map's laid out. You have to go through the middle to get to any expansion and there's always a bridge to retreat to. It's extremely difficult to flank on that map due to the rivers/bridges.
It would have been ok if he just made the corsairs to defend vs mutas and keep them off his back long enough to mass templars and secure his 3rd. But going for that drop was really just senseless. Shuttle + speed + 3 DTs is a LOT of gas that early. Then he gave away most of his corsair fleet in his mindless attack on the mutas, not microing at all while scourge assraped his fleet.
Meanwhile, Effort took another expo, lost nothing but his mutas and a spawning pool, AND got defiler tech. If Jangbi hadn't wasted all that money on sairs/dt/shuttle he would have had a lot more dominant army to control the middle and Effort probably wouldn't have been able to just walk right over with lurkers/defilers and swarm rape Jangbi's third.
Probably the ONLY good move Jangbi did all game was storming Effort's nat by shuttling templars over the river. If he'd kept his corsairs and relied on templar storming to harass, he could have abused the map way more effectively. Much harder to defend against corsair/shuttle when they get to fly over a long stretch of river/cliffs straight into a mineral line.
I don't know why anyone would argue this point. It's clear as day that Jangbi's strat was poorly conceived and flat out didn't work due to the spawning positions. Flying through a zerg's nat to DT drop his main, when both players are turtling, is a really dumb idea. Effort didn't have to divide his focus anywhere else. A DT/Corsair attack is easy to stop when Zerg has 4-gas and 10 mutas already in the air. And Jangbi did all this completely blind. Zero vision in the main when he decided to nose dive right in with no clue what he'd be facing. That's poor decision making.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1092/20400637.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2751/lineupc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/581.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/199.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/58.jpg)
EffOrt < Heartbreak Ridge > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/564.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/235.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/639.jpg)
Movie < Match Point > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/554.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/232.jpg )
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/43.jpg)
sKyHigh < Tornado > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/610.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/241.jpg )
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/54.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/noimage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/237_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/264/predictions.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2478/resultsz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7209/recommendedgames.jpg)
I think CJ will win tonight. 
![[image loading]](http://i36.tinypic.com/es822e.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.snelhest.org/images/0911101256957931186.jpg)
