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motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 14 2009 10:47 GMT
#221
On September 14 2009 19:45 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:38 motbob wrote:
LOOK OK

It is possible to make a map that is ~100% PvT between players of equal skill. It is also possible to make a map that is is ~100% TvP!

It is also possible to make a map right in the middle! Therefore, maps are all-important when talking about balance!


So you are completely not taking the players actual individual skill into account?

P>T it's not exactly unknown.

IF THERE IS A MAP THAT IS 50% TVP THEN THE MATCHUP IS, BY DEFINITION, BALANCED. IF ALL MAPS ARE 50% TVP THEN THE MATCHUP IS ALWAYS BALANCED. jesus christ.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
kemoryan
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Spain1506 Posts
September 14 2009 10:47 GMT
#222
On September 14 2009 19:45 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:38 motbob wrote:
LOOK OK

It is possible to make a map that is ~100% PvT between players of equal skill. It is also possible to make a map that is is ~100% TvP!

It is also possible to make a map right in the middle! Therefore, maps are all-important when talking about balance!


So you are completely not taking the players actual individual skill into account





Just stop man...
Freedom is a stranger
Hittegods
Profile Joined April 2007
Stockholm4642 Posts
September 14 2009 10:48 GMT
#223
On September 14 2009 19:32 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:27 Hittegods wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:23 Foucault wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:17 levelzx wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:15 Foucault wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:11 p4NDemik wrote:
Foucault you've said this stuff in every PMT LR thread. They're obviously not just play-testing them on TV, each team is rigorously testing these maps in-house. They should have a good idea of where each map stands at the end of the month because of that fact, not because of these showmatches.


So the OP shouldn't say that these broadcasted games are used for determining statistics for the maps obviously. I said it in one other thread where I read the same thing. Now, if that's not the case, then why does it say so in the OP?

Still, the whole "the-game-itself-is-100%-balanced-it's-ALL-about-maps" viewpoint is quite faulty imo, since Starcraft of course isn't perfectly balanced. I think they are reading a tad too much into maps.


The Game is balanced. The Players are not, though.


Of course it's not balanced.

Okay, I'll bite. What's not balanced?


Ok this is not the thread for it so I'll keep it short in this one, single post.

Alot of small stuff isn't balanced. Some matchups are easier than others etc. To me it's absurd to claim that Starcraft is 100% balanced when people at higher levels are aware of the slight imbalances between the races.

Many people dont see/don't want to see that, so they blame maps. Starcraft isn't balanced at all originally, mainly strategies has brought a good balance to the game.

I like how you claim that balance is some kind of number. It's 95% balanced. What does that even mean? No one is claiming that given infinite time and resources, changes couldn't be made that would make the game more balanced. Everyone agrees that it is balanced enough that players' skill, builds, decision making and maps are the main factor in deciding the outcome of the game.
This neo violence, pure self defiance
levelzx
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Poland174 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#224
On September 14 2009 19:46 nayumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:44 levelzx wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:42 nayumi wrote:
MC: Best, congratulations, how did you manage to win after such disadvantages?
Best: I dunno really ... I just macro'd up my units and spammed 1a2a3a to any thing that looked red on the mini map. Eventually I saw Justin's gg. That's it.



I see that you hate Toss with passion, but Best did way better than this.

In case you failed to realize, it was just a joke. The only thing that I hate about Starcraft is me sucking at it.


C'mon, I know it was a joke. I just like pretending to be so serious...

Favourite Protoss - Stork, Favourite Terran - Flash, Favourite Zerg - Calm
zcxvbn
Profile Joined August 2009
United States257 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-14 10:49:43
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#225
I like how when the 'balanced' word is mentioned, there will always be someone who insists to interpret it as 100.0000000% balanced. Yes, we know that Starcraft is not perfectly balanced. Is it imbalanced to the point that large numbers of people stop playing it, or are forced to switch to one of the races? Evidently not.

On-topic: Hoping Boxer bunker rushes fake yellow. That would be epic.
Boxer 1
Yellow 7 (actually 8)
NA: proberecall
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#226
On September 14 2009 19:29 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:27 Itachii wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:23 Foucault wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:17 levelzx wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:15 Foucault wrote:
On September 14 2009 19:11 p4NDemik wrote:
Foucault you've said this stuff in every PMT LR thread. They're obviously not just play-testing them on TV, each team is rigorously testing these maps in-house. They should have a good idea of where each map stands at the end of the month because of that fact, not because of these showmatches.


So the OP shouldn't say that these broadcasted games are used for determining statistics for the maps obviously. I said it in one other thread where I read the same thing. Now, if that's not the case, then why does it say so in the OP?

Still, the whole "the-game-itself-is-100%-balanced-it's-ALL-about-maps" viewpoint is quite faulty imo, since Starcraft of course isn't perfectly balanced. I think they are reading a tad too much into maps.


The Game is balanced. The Players are not, though.


Of course it's not balanced.

stop trolling ffs


Oh c'mon I'm not trolling.
You are probably the one trolling if you are saying that all the matchups in Starcraft are 100% balanced in some mystical way. That's not possible

I wont bother with long ass post why your fighting is pointless, let me just say that SC's balance isnt only about one race being as strong as other one in any given situation.
maps,players and many other things have effect on this, and you dont seem to realize that.
now think about how many games on how many maps by how many different skilled player have been played and check all time matchup statistics.

thats right, SC is really well balanced.


La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
Dice
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)926 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#227
Map: Roadrunner
TvZ 1 : 15
HiOT
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Sweden1000 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#228
1:15 :O
Officially the founder of Team Property (:
RainmanMP
Profile Joined October 2007
United States1699 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#229
Boxer in yellow at 2
Yarnc in purple at 7
이영호 FIGHTING! Die Hard KT Rolster and Flash fan.
dnosrc
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany454 Posts
September 14 2009 10:49 GMT
#230
TVZ 1:15 .. WTF?
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
September 14 2009 10:50 GMT
#231
1:15 TvZ...lmao, no problem Boxer you got it.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 14 2009 10:50 GMT
#232
LOL the odds are stacked against Boxer right off the bat.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
September 14 2009 10:50 GMT
#233
On September 14 2009 19:49 dnosrc wrote:
TVZ 1:15 .. WTF?

np for THE EMPEROR
i hope
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
September 14 2009 10:50 GMT
#234
Boxer to make this 2:15 ^^
Oedi
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada265 Posts
September 14 2009 10:50 GMT
#235
holy crap, 1-15 TvZ. holy imba batman. If this maps goes up its like another LJD > Fantasy stomping ground lol.

I dont think this map should be in PL, seems too imba.
zcxvbn
Profile Joined August 2009
United States257 Posts
September 14 2009 10:51 GMT
#236
On September 14 2009 19:49 Dice84 wrote:
Map: Roadrunner
TvZ 1 : 15

Obviously Boxer has only played once on this map before. Simple explanation.
NA: proberecall
levelzx
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Poland174 Posts
September 14 2009 10:51 GMT
#237
Imagine this:

Boxer: I'm playing mech.
Everyone: FFFFFFFFUUUUUU.

OMG, did I call it wrong time?
Favourite Protoss - Stork, Favourite Terran - Flash, Favourite Zerg - Calm
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 14 2009 10:51 GMT
#238
On September 14 2009 19:50 Oedi wrote:
holy crap, 1-15 TvZ. holy imba batman. If this maps goes up its like another LJD > Fantasy stomping ground lol.

I dont think this map should be in PL, seems too imba.

I love this map but yeah, if they're going to include it they've got to fix the imbalance. Here's hoping.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
September 14 2009 10:51 GMT
#239
I predict a nukerush
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
September 14 2009 10:51 GMT
#240
On September 14 2009 19:45 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2009 19:38 motbob wrote:
LOOK OK

It is possible to make a map that is ~100% PvT between players of equal skill. It is also possible to make a map that is is ~100% TvP!

It is also possible to make a map right in the middle! Therefore, maps are all-important when talking about balance!


So you are completely not taking the players actual individual skill into account


Maps can outweigh skills by quite a bit.

I can guarantee you that Jaedong won't win starleague if Plasma, Monty Hall, etc. are the map pool. I can also guarantee that Bisu's PvZ will become crap if he plays on Tears of the Moon.

Like motbob says, Maps determine balance.
Meh
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