Clicking the spoiler will reveal the players playing and a short reason of why you should watch it. Be careful, you might spoil it if you plan on watching recommended games in order because of the allkill format, so click one at a time (except there's only one recommended game tonight). + Show Spoiler [Set 2 - MUST WATCH] +
hah i was actually about to do this when i made the OP
hopefully he goes to the Stars or just stays at Oz
Is the rooster what the teams submitted for this tournament or did you just randomly include members of the teams so they would be equal? I don't see NeeL playing his debut match here.
hah i was actually about to do this when i made the OP
hopefully he goes to the Stars or just stays at Oz
Is the rooster what the teams submitted for this tournament or did you just randomly include members of the teams? I don't see NeeL playing his debut match here.
Why would I randomly include members of the teams? I copy/pasted it from the R&S thread, but I'm pretty sure the teams can only send in players on their current PL roster.
On August 23 2009 12:01 Realpenguin wrote: hopefully he goes to the Stars or just stays at Oz
On August 22 2009 22:11 (paladin)roMAD wrote: Light told me that Jaedong would either join WeMade, Woongjin, STX or stay at OZ, as Samsung, KT and SKT dont have enough money to afford him. Meanwhile Guemchi also told me that Jaedong to Woongjin is quite possible.
hah i was actually about to do this when i made the OP
hopefully he goes to the Stars or just stays at Oz
Is the rooster what the teams submitted for this tournament or did you just randomly include members of the teams so they would be equal? I don't see NeeL playing his debut match here.
I don't see why they wouldn't. its a bo7, they can afford to lose game 1, and you never know he could win if against another newbie. Jaedong is good enough to compensate for him being played
hah i was actually about to do this when i made the OP
hopefully he goes to the Stars or just stays at Oz
Is the rooster what the teams submitted for this tournament or did you just randomly include members of the teams? I don't see NeeL playing his debut match here.
Why would I randomly include members of the teams?
I don't know, just seemed too even in members and race distribution. Remembering hearing Sparkyz had a bigger bench of players too.
On August 22 2009 22:11 (paladin)roMAD wrote: Light told me that Jaedong would either join WeMade, Woongjin, STX or stay at OZ, as Samsung, KT and SKT dont have enough money to afford him. Meanwhile Guemchi also told me that Jaedong to Woongjin is quite possible.
Is that true about Samsung/kt/skt? STX seems like the last place he would go. They just handed out a ton of money to hwasin/calm, and they already have a ton of zergs.
That's what Light told me. He said that the companies are rich but proteams themselves dont have much money to spend.
Woongjin looked like one of the better atmospheres for progamers, last I knew. It might, unfortunately, not be the best as far as performances go though.
However, it would make some sense since GGPlay is retiring and all. I figure they would want another terran instead, but I can see Jaedong making everyone better around him - maybe even MVP. Besides, Jaedong and free practice games? Epic.
Ggaemo now adding more hatches to increase production
Ggaemo sending a drone to 7 o'clock to expand again
Leta going for more vult harass at 5 o'clock, first planting mines in front of the nat, but ggaemo sees it coming and traps the vults in between his hydra army
Ggaemo's expo at the 7 o'clock main has been scanned
Lol does ggaemo plan to take out like 20 tanks with spider mines and goliaths with hydra/lurker/defiler? EDIT: That kinda looked like a "row of cocks" comment but still, Leta has this.
Good idea Oz, send out particularly weak and untested zergs. That is the exact opposite of what Leta destroys and has built a near 70% win rate off of.
On August 23 2009 13:43 TwoToneTerran wrote: Good idea Oz, send out particularly weak and untested zergs. That is the exact opposite of what Leta destroys and has built a near 70% win rate off of.
More like good idea OZ, giving your other zergs experience during the off season so they'll be more prepared for next season because it's highly likely JD won't be there
On August 23 2009 13:43 TwoToneTerran wrote: Good idea Oz, send out particularly weak and untested zergs. That is the exact opposite of what Leta destroys and has built a near 70% win rate off of.
He's like 5% off. solinren is messing with his viewers -.-
Dropship moving out. It might be a good idea for Leta to expand to that island. I don't think Killer has drop researched after all and Killer's spire is gone.
Lurkers out for Killer. AHAHAH What is this? It went from Mech play with hydra/muta v. Tank/Goliath to Bionic play with marine/medic/tank v. Lurker/hydra.
Man, I was watching some old, old yellow vods and it's really astonishing how much macro has improved. (Yellow still had better hydra micro than killer does, though)
On August 23 2009 14:15 FireGuyX wrote: Leta could of ended this earlier, when all Killer had was a group of hyrdras, a hyrodren den, and two hatcheries.
On August 23 2009 14:15 FireGuyX wrote: Leta could of ended this earlier, when all Killer had was a group of hyrdras, a hyrodren den, and two hatcheries.
Ya, his best chance to win was immediately after he cleaned up the hydras that countered his main after he crushed Killer's main.
On August 23 2009 14:15 FireGuyX wrote: Leta could of ended this earlier, when all Killer had was a group of hyrdras, a hyrodren den, and two hatcheries.
On August 23 2009 14:15 FireGuyX wrote: Leta could of ended this earlier, when all Killer had was a group of hyrdras, a hyrodren den, and two hatcheries.
Lol a hydrodren den?
Haven't play this game in a while, I meant Hydralisk Den.
Whenever Oz gets forced past their zergs, they're kind of screwed. Yarnc can beat everyone else on that team blindfolded, probably. (Bacho pvz is the only questionable one).
On August 23 2009 13:43 TwoToneTerran wrote: Good idea Oz, send out particularly weak and untested zergs. That is the exact opposite of what Leta destroys and has built a near 70% win rate off of.
On August 23 2009 14:21 Sadistx wrote: I'm probably the only one that thinks Killer showed an amazing game there. He needs to be played more often - kid's got potential imo and he's young.
He would have lost guaranteed if leta had not stopped after wiping out Killer's main and just sat in his base. He just took advantage and kept expanding and teching while Leta sat there twiddling his thumbs. Nothing spectacular.
On August 23 2009 14:21 Sadistx wrote: I'm probably the only one that thinks Killer showed an amazing game there. He needs to be played more often - kid's got potential imo and he's young.
He would have lost guaranteed if leta had not stopped after wiping out Killer's main and just sat in his base. He just took advantage and kept expanding and teching while Leta sat there twiddling his thumbs. Nothing spectacular.
Couldn't have said it better myself. If Leta would've kept pushing that top right corner base I believe he could've ended it there....
On August 23 2009 14:44 BlackMagister wrote: The announcers also seemed to accept it like it was normal?
it is normal.
killer had 2 hatcheries, like 1.5 dozen drones, THATS IT. he had no tech except for spires and maybe +1 air. all justin had to do was turtle and push out with vessel marine and killer would have nothing. the game was effectively over
On August 23 2009 14:44 BlackMagister wrote: The announcers also seemed to accept it like it was normal?
it is normal.
killer had 2 hatcheries, like 1.5 dozen drones, THATS IT. he had no tech except for spires and maybe +1 air. all justin had to do was turtle and push out with vessel marine and killer would have nothing. the game was effectively over
Didn't he have three hatcheries? Whatever, he should have at least fought till his mutas died, that was such an odd ending.
Dunno why you guys think it was so abrupt for him to GG. Killer had an almost non existent drone saturation, he didn't have a 4th gas. Justin's economy looked unharmed (From when I started watching at least), he has irridate, was pumping vessels, and Killer had a clump of 20+ mutas irradiated.
On August 23 2009 14:44 BlackMagister wrote: The announcers also seemed to accept it like it was normal?
it is normal.
killer had 2 hatcheries, like 1.5 dozen drones, THATS IT. he had no tech except for spires and maybe +1 air. all justin had to do was turtle and push out with vessel marine and killer would have nothing. the game was effectively over
Didn't he have three hatcheries?
He did. I think he meant mining hatcheries. Killers 3rd was only getting gas, not minerals
On August 23 2009 14:44 BlackMagister wrote: The announcers also seemed to accept it like it was normal?
it is normal.
killer had 2 hatcheries, like 1.5 dozen drones, THATS IT. he had no tech except for spires and maybe +1 air. all justin had to do was turtle and push out with vessel marine and killer would have nothing. the game was effectively over
Didn't he have three hatcheries?
He didn't have enough drones to saturate a single hatchery so that doesn't even matter.
On August 23 2009 14:44 BlackMagister wrote: The announcers also seemed to accept it like it was normal?
it is normal.
killer had 2 hatcheries, like 1.5 dozen drones, THATS IT. he had no tech except for spires and maybe +1 air. all justin had to do was turtle and push out with vessel marine and killer would have nothing. the game was effectively over
Didn't he have three hatcheries?
not that I saw. either way my point stands. killer had no tech or economy. just on the other hand had both. it was over
Perfect double with lots of goons after a first recall with lots of zealots. More people need to do this, call zealots to minedrag then goons to clean up.
Gonna have to send Backho, unless Yarnc is on break or something. Hiya might be the ideal choice to snipe Horang, but if Yarnc comes in last then Oz will go down fast.
Someone can give me website or something where i can watch it? I used to watch on uusee (wfbrood) but after first 3 matches they started to playing Hite vs KT -.- and that livestream seems dont work for me.
On August 23 2009 15:41 uziasz wrote: Someone can give me website or something where i can watch it? I used to watch on uusee (wfbrood) but after first 3 matches they started to playing Hite vs KT -.- and that livestream seems dont work for me.
On August 23 2009 15:41 uziasz wrote: Someone can give me website or something where i can watch it? I used to watch on uusee (wfbrood) but after first 3 matches they started to playing Hite vs KT -.- and that livestream seems dont work for me.
On August 23 2009 15:42 Guilty wrote: i am quickly become a fan of horang. Make that the whole hite team...y is this?? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On August 23 2009 15:55 lazz wrote: someone explain what just happened? mindfuck? spear? backho? horang2 jumping out of his booth? wtf is going on?
Both Spear and Backho came out from behind the curtain. And both were heading towards the booth. Spear bowed, while Backho was like entering the booth. Horang was like "WTF? Who is playing lololol" and jumped out trying to figure it out ... Everyone was having a good laugh ...
On August 23 2009 15:55 lazz wrote: someone explain what just happened? mindfuck? spear? backho? horang2 jumping out of his booth? wtf is going on?
Both Spear and Backho came out from behind the curtain. And both were heading towards the booth. Spear bowed, while Backho was like entering the booth. Horang was like "WTF? Who is playing lololol" and jumped out trying to figure it out ... Everyone was having a good laugh ...
On August 23 2009 15:55 lazz wrote: someone explain what just happened? mindfuck? spear? backho? horang2 jumping out of his booth? wtf is going on?
Both Spear and Backho came out from behind the curtain. And both were heading towards the booth. Spear bowed, while Backho was like entering the booth. Horang was like "WTF? Who is playing lololol" and jumped out trying to figure it out ... Everyone was having a good laugh ...
Anyway its Spear vs Horang2 ...
oh ok, thanks haha
uh no..
Horang2 was confused because he wasn't sure whether he had to step out of the curtain as well
On August 23 2009 16:09 iamho wrote: damn at least some of the lower ranked teams used more of their a-team, this is just like watching minor league games
By watching Killer's game today, I feel that he has a lot of potential. Good mechanic and decent decision-making. He's no Jaedong but he has the potential to become good, if not, really good. Same goes for PerfectMan. I like his extremely aggressive style but needs a lil work on micro imo. ggaemo? Spear[Shield]? Ugh.. get rid of em!!
On August 24 2009 00:16 Mykill wrote: lol no JD no win
Actually if OZ had just chucked HiyA in he probably would have rolled Horang2 and then hite would have nobody left (except Yarnc and was he even on the roster?) so HiyA would auto-win the 7th set (unless of course Yarnc showed up).
Yeah, Oz lineup was pretty odd. I think it was obvious that JD was not going to play, but at least Hiya and Lomo could have won some games there. I think this was more like a round of testing for the less known players before the vacations.
lol, clearly Hwaseung OZ doesn't give a crap about winning this tournament. They didn't even send one of their best four players, although they did send PerfectMan.
On August 23 2009 21:08 Dice84 wrote: By watching Killer's game today, I feel that he has a lot of potential. Good mechanic and decent decision-making. He's no Jaedong but he has the potential to become good, if not, really good. Same goes for PerfectMan. I like his extremely aggressive style but needs a lil work on micro imo. ggaemo? Spear[Shield]? Ugh.. get rid of em!!
Yea i've watched all of killer's recent games and i get a feeling that he's somewhat good, loads of potential atleast.. don't know about Perfectman tho..
I also agree that ggaemo and Spear are some of the worst players out there, Frozean & co are bonjwas compared to them, sucks for Oz tho ;<
On August 23 2009 21:08 Dice84 wrote: By watching Killer's game today, I feel that he has a lot of potential. Good mechanic and decent decision-making. He's no Jaedong but he has the potential to become good, if not, really good. Same goes for PerfectMan. I like his extremely aggressive style but needs a lil work on micro imo. ggaemo? Spear[Shield]? Ugh.. get rid of em!!
I think in terms of mechanics, there's very little that separates the different tier of players. The most important difference is still their knowledge of the game, and being able to make the correct decisions in limited time based on limited data. Killer has shown that his decision-making was pretty bad. He had a bad sense of when to push an attack and when to pull back. That may be nerves, but it shows he's lacking top level judgement.
On August 23 2009 21:08 Dice84 wrote: By watching Killer's game today, I feel that he has a lot of potential. Good mechanic and decent decision-making. He's no Jaedong but he has the potential to become good, if not, really good. Same goes for PerfectMan. I like his extremely aggressive style but needs a lil work on micro imo. ggaemo? Spear[Shield]? Ugh.. get rid of em!!
I think in terms of mechanics, there's very little that separates the different tier of players. The most important difference is still their knowledge of the game, and being able to make the correct decisions in limited time based on limited data. Killer has shown that his decision-making was pretty bad. He had a bad sense of when to push an attack and when to pull back. That may be nerves, but it shows he's lacking top level judgement.
Really? I thought he showed pretty good decision-making in his game against Leta. It's not easy to come back and win after your main gets razed, even if you inflict some damage on your opponent to compensate. Killer did a good job of controlling the pace of the game from that point on, I felt. Nonetheless I don't claim to be a strategic genius so there could be things I missed.
In his second game, where he went all-in mutas, if anything it was his mechanics that let him down. That was a very Jaedong-like strategy and his muta micro just wasn't up to it. To me that implies that there's a very real difference in mechanical skill between Jaedong and Killer.
BTW, I had never seen Killer on screen before and at first I seriously thought he was Jaedong. The two are really similar from some angles. The kid looks like a fucking Jaedong Junior, I swear. I am definitely rooting for him from now on
On August 23 2009 21:08 Dice84 wrote: By watching Killer's game today, I feel that he has a lot of potential. Good mechanic and decent decision-making. He's no Jaedong but he has the potential to become good, if not, really good. Same goes for PerfectMan. I like his extremely aggressive style but needs a lil work on micro imo. ggaemo? Spear[Shield]? Ugh.. get rid of em!!
I think in terms of mechanics, there's very little that separates the different tier of players. The most important difference is still their knowledge of the game, and being able to make the correct decisions in limited time based on limited data. Killer has shown that his decision-making was pretty bad. He had a bad sense of when to push an attack and when to pull back. That may be nerves, but it shows he's lacking top level judgement.
Really? I thought he showed pretty good decision-making in his game against Leta. It's not easy to come back and win after your main gets razed, even if you inflict some damage on your opponent to compensate. Killer did a good job of controlling the pace of the game from that point on, I felt. Nonetheless I don't claim to be a strategic genius so there could be things I missed.
In his second game, where he went all-in mutas, if anything it was his mechanics that let him down. That was a very Jaedong-like strategy and his muta micro just wasn't up to it. To me that implies that there's a very real difference in mechanical skill between Jaedong and Killer.
I guess I forgot the Leta game. Because I started watching his second game. His muta micro was amazing. But he never finished off the marines when he could. Only to come back and attack again when the turret defenses were in place again.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
In general or specifically? Sure, some players do have insane mechanics(Leta can somehow 2-port wraith zergs to death while others can't). But I don't see it in a general sense. If you watch PvP or TvT, where both players mirror each other's build, a lesser player usually macros at the same rate as the superior player.
On August 24 2009 14:39 Avidkeystamper wrote: Does multitasking fall under mechanics? Because the level of multitasking varies a lot, even from S-class to A-class.
Multi-tasking to me seems more mental than physical. Sure, some players lack the APM to multi-task at a high level(Savior, Stork being prime examples). But when you have 300+ apm, you have the speed to multi-task.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
I beg to differ. Free was badly outmacroed by Bisu on basically the same build in WCG the other day. Basically the same number of bases and about equal builds, but Free was just badly outmacroed for some unknown reason.
The mechanics between tiers does show, especially between S-class progamers (Flash/Bisu/JD) and lower tiered players.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
I beg to differ. Free was badly outmacroed by Bisu on basically the same build in WCG the other day. Basically the same number of bases and about equal builds, but Free was just badly outmacroed for some unknown reason.
The mechanics between tiers does show, especially between S-class progamers (Flash/Bisu/JD) and lower tiered players.
I'm not sure which game you're referring to, but here's what happend in those games.
Game 2: Bisu 1-gate->range->ob->expand. Free: dt rush->FAILED Game 3: Bisu gate->range->ob->gate->expand->reaver. Free: gate->CANCELED range->robo->reaver->ob->gate->LOSES reaver+shuttle+2 zealots->gate->expand right when he gets pwned.
You must have some really thick Bisu-colored glasses on to think Bisu won because of his insane macro.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
I beg to differ. Free was badly outmacroed by Bisu on basically the same build in WCG the other day. Basically the same number of bases and about equal builds, but Free was just badly outmacroed for some unknown reason.
The mechanics between tiers does show, especially between S-class progamers (Flash/Bisu/JD) and lower tiered players.
I'm not sure which game you're referring to, but here's what happend in those games.
Game 2: Bisu 1-gate->range->ob->expand. Free: dt rush->FAILED Game 3: Bisu gate->range->ob->gate->expand->reaver. Free: gate->CANCELED range->robo->reaver->ob->gate->LOSES reaver+shuttle+2 zealots->gate->expand right when he gets pwned.
You must have some really thick Bisu-colored glasses on to think Bisu won because of his insane macro.
You can call it a build order loss, but when both players are on 3 base on roughly the same timing, 40 supply is quite a bit of a difference. You can also point out Stork/UpMagic where Up had about 5 base to Stork's 4, yet Stork maxed at 200 to Up's 145 and just flat out rolled him (WCG Set 1).
On August 24 2009 14:42 Djabanete wrote: In his second game, where he went all-in mutas, if anything it was his mechanics that let him down. That was a very Jaedong-like strategy and his muta micro just wasn't up to it. To me that implies that there's a very real difference in mechanical skill between Jaedong and Killer.
I guess I forgot the Leta game. Because I started watching his second game. His muta micro was amazing. But he never finished off the marines when he could. Only to come back and attack again when the turret defenses were in place again.
Yeah - it reminded me heavily of Jaedong vs Iris from WL playoffs (anyone remember that?) where JD went 2-hat mutas -> 3-hat mutas -> 4 hat mutas... I think he got up to five before he forced GG.
Killer tried the same basic thing, but spent a little more time before getting mutas out because he went 3 bases to start, which threw off the first attack timing enough that Justin had turrets out. Between that and the fact that Neo Harmony has no back doors like SCR, it was pretty much doomed, even before Killer got up to more than one control group of muta and revealed that he can't micro two at once like JD does (but then, who can?). Even JD might have lost his game if he hadn't gotten the sci facility snipe due to poor(?) placement by Iris and that back door.
Killer's one chance was when he wrecked the turret wall protecting the main mineral line, but he pulled out rather than risk his damaged mutas further going for the SCV line. Bad decision making imo since he had killed most of Justin's m&m as well, but whatever.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
I beg to differ. Free was badly outmacroed by Bisu on basically the same build in WCG the other day. Basically the same number of bases and about equal builds, but Free was just badly outmacroed for some unknown reason.
The mechanics between tiers does show, especially between S-class progamers (Flash/Bisu/JD) and lower tiered players.
I'm not sure which game you're referring to, but here's what happend in those games.
Game 2: Bisu 1-gate->range->ob->expand. Free: dt rush->FAILED Game 3: Bisu gate->range->ob->gate->expand->reaver. Free: gate->CANCELED range->robo->reaver->ob->gate->LOSES reaver+shuttle+2 zealots->gate->expand right when he gets pwned.
You must have some really thick Bisu-colored glasses on to think Bisu won because of his insane macro.
You can call it a build order loss, but when both players are on 3 base on roughly the same timing, 40 supply is quite a bit of a difference. You can also point out Stork/UpMagic where Up had about 5 base to Stork's 4, yet Stork maxed at 200 to Up's 145 and just flat out rolled him (WCG Set 1).
Huh? Bisu was on 3 base. Free was on 2. Bisu had the economic advantage because he held off the fast DTs. I don't know what else is there to say. More probes mining from the early game accumulate throughout the game. This is pretty simple.
As for Up vs Stork, you mean the one where Stork had like 10-15 gateways and Upmagic pushed out on 4 factories? Do you know how long it takes to macro up a 200/200 terran army on 4 factories? Upmagic not adding factories has nothing to do with macro or mechanics. It has to do with decision-making.
On August 24 2009 15:05 dl2agon wrote: The mechanics between tiers are not as small as you think
I beg to differ. Free was badly outmacroed by Bisu on basically the same build in WCG the other day. Basically the same number of bases and about equal builds, but Free was just badly outmacroed for some unknown reason.
The mechanics between tiers does show, especially between S-class progamers (Flash/Bisu/JD) and lower tiered players.
I'm not sure which game you're referring to, but here's what happend in those games.
Game 2: Bisu 1-gate->range->ob->expand. Free: dt rush->FAILED Game 3: Bisu gate->range->ob->gate->expand->reaver. Free: gate->CANCELED range->robo->reaver->ob->gate->LOSES reaver+shuttle+2 zealots->gate->expand right when he gets pwned.
You must have some really thick Bisu-colored glasses on to think Bisu won because of his insane macro.
You can call it a build order loss, but when both players are on 3 base on roughly the same timing, 40 supply is quite a bit of a difference. You can also point out Stork/UpMagic where Up had about 5 base to Stork's 4, yet Stork maxed at 200 to Up's 145 and just flat out rolled him (WCG Set 1).
Huh? Bisu was on 3 base. Free was on 2. Bisu had the economic advantage because he held off the fast DTs. I don't know what else is there to say. More probes mining from the early game accumulate throughout the game. This is pretty simple.
As for Up vs Stork, you mean the one where Stork had like 10-15 gateways and Upmagic pushed out on 4 factories? Do you know how long it takes to macro up a 200/200 terran army on 4 factories? Upmagic not adding factories has nothing to do with macro or mechanics. It has to do with decision-making.
Yes, just rewatched it and Free definitely had 2. You are correct. But UpMagic banking 4k and only putting out 4 factories is quite a sign of poor macro. If you don't call putting up more factories when you have that much resources as bad macro, then I'm not quite sure what macro is then.
EPT![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yrd9/5yhd9/08-92009-stxmasters09v2.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ype9/5yhd9/06222009-oz.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ypeh/5yhd9/06222009-hite.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yrnp/5yhd9/08232009-ozvshite.png)
ggaemo < Neo Medusa > 
Sea.Leta
PerfectMan < Outsider > ![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yrnq/5yhd9/08232009-horangfrostedflakes.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9361/happydong.jpg)
