EPTHere's a replay of me getting owned by a 'D' player zerg. I know that I shoulda had better scouting info thru constant comsats, but still, what could I have done better besides my shitty terran macro? (I'm a toss player usually)
replay:
![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/17729.jpg)
[H] Failing TvZ 2 port wraith
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
Here's a replay of me getting owned by a 'D' player zerg. I know that I shoulda had better scouting info thru constant comsats, but still, what could I have done better besides my shitty terran macro? (I'm a toss player usually) replay: | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27156 Posts
If you see a switch from mass hydra to mass muta, why don't you make more turrets and some valks? You made one valk, sent it across the map, and let it die. Look at what he is doing. Assess the situation. React accordingly. | ||
|
win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
And yeah... my reaction to the zerg's movements was crap. I'm a D noob remember  | ||
|
Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
You did good on the wraith harass, but kinda lost it when he counterpushed and killed your CC at natural, delaying your expansion even more. A bunker is usually very helpful in deflecting the hydra counter, if you plan on going 2 base. | ||
|
peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
Also later in the game it's either you lost focus or your build kinda went haywire. Try playing more games though. 1.5 games per day isn't enough to "master" a build that players like Flash struggle with. | ||
|
Marine50
Australia1764 Posts
On a map like blue storm and the two port wraith build you did, I would suggest transitioning into MnM+Tank+Vessel not Vulture+Goliath+Tank. Its generally faster to get your army and macro going and lets you be more aggressive in the mid game. MnM+tank can tear up a zerg who has been harrassed by cloaked wraiths and if you do the build correct you should be able to expand a lot faster than you did, while you were harassing. It mainly depends on how much damage you do. Again you could have done more. You expanded to the mineral only, where even if you had better macro you would still have excess minerals and no 3rd gas so you cant get a sizable mech army faster nor re-enforce fast enough. Again MnM is better for this situation. Also mutalisks are a lot more comfortable to verse with MnM if they transition into muta | ||
|
Husky
United States3362 Posts
| ||
|
win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
On July 28 2009 13:08 peidongyang wrote: Sorry to sound mean, but you aren't ready for 2 port wraiths vs zerg. It's not like wraiths against terran where you can just send them in and pew pew their scvs/tanks. Against zerg you have to be at a constant look-out, and plus you have to actually micro wraiths against hydras. Tbh, 2 port wraiths is kind of like going 2-hatch muta except you dont have sunkens to defend and if the enemy masses hydras (vs massing marines), you can't actually run around the base and kill the hydras, whereas you can snipe off marines. Also later in the game it's either you lost focus or your build kinda went haywire. Try playing more games though. 1.5 games per day isn't enough to "master" a build that players like Flash struggle with. Sorry to have cause confusion, but when I say 'master' a build, I use 'master' as a relative term. For example, even if I mass game 50 TvZs a day, I would probably never execute the 2-port wraith build as well as Leta. That said, I understand that I can't let my wraiths without controlling 'em, but i felt that wraith micro wasn't my biggest problem (thought my wraith micro still sucks, my macro sucked even harder) | ||
|
tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
1, in the start, don't let your scv die to a drone. 2, your marines ran away from a free overlord kill, that really made me go wtf. 3, when your fac lifted to his base you should've gotten 3 vultures before you moved out with them that way you dont have to micro the vultures. 4, when your wraiths are out OVERLORDS FIRST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is so crucial, because everytime you kill an overlord he undersupplys and you can just keep killing. DONT EVEN TOUCH DRONES until you have enough wraiths to kill them in 1 shot 5, YOUR SUPPOSED TO TRANSITION INTO MNM NOT MECH. that way your not being redundant, the 2 starports can be used for science vessels. If you were planning to transition into mech AT LEAST DONT PROXY THE FACTORY. The zerg has hydras, you have a choice of mnnm or mech, obviously MnM is the better choice here 6, your 2port wraith fails entirely because your wraiths are too weak THERE WERE SO MANY FREE OVERLORD KILLS YOU COULD'VE TAKEN. 7, at 7minutes into the game, you pretty much lost it for yourself, your EXPANDING when you have like 12wraiths. 12 WRAITHS DOESNT BEAT HIS HYDRAS. you need to tech to mnm or at least get some tanks with siege, see if you didnt proxy that fact this would've worked. 8, now your being punished for expanding to early, its about 9 minutes into the game, and the drones kills your getting dont matter so much as he has a lot of hatcherys to reproduce them from, and he has about 5 times the army strength as you 9. at 14 minutes, you have 1.4k minerals and no gas. THIS IS WHY YOU DO NOT go from 2port wraith into mech unless you have some genius cheese. Last, there are no "Fake D level players" anyone who has a D icon is a D. Don't ever find excuses for why you lost it stops you from becoming better then whoever you lost to. Edit: another problem is that you're being way to greedy, do not ever overextend yourself and take bases you cant defend. even if you win with ninja bases, your gonna start losing alot when you play against people who know to scout. | ||
|
Marine50
Australia1764 Posts
On July 28 2009 16:21 tobi9999 wrote: Last, there are no "Fake D level players" anyone who has a D icon is a D. Of course there is 'fake' D players. Their 'rank' might be D but their skill level says otherwise, whether they do that on purpose is irrelevant. You might run into a previous B+ player at the beginning of a new season with his rank at 'D' but his skill level is much greater | ||
|
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On July 28 2009 17:05 Marine50 wrote: Of course there is 'fake' D players. Their 'rank' might be D but their skill level says otherwise, whether they do that on purpose is irrelevant. You might run into a previous B+ player at the beginning of a new season with his rank at 'D' but his skill level is much greater Then they expose more flaws in your play and give us more stuff to give feedback on. If your opponent sucks and you lose you're not going to gain nearly as much as if he were a highly skilled player. So don't feel so bad about it, but it's not worth commenting in your OP really. | ||
|
Marine50
Australia1764 Posts
On July 28 2009 17:15 Grobyc wrote: Then they expose more flaws in your play and give us more stuff to give feedback on. If your opponent sucks and you lose you're not going to gain nearly as much as if he were a highly skilled player. So don't feel so bad about it, but it's not worth commenting in your OP really. not my OP buddy. Its true, you shouldn't really be too bothered by versing higher skilled players as it helps you improve and gives you some good reps of what better players do. | ||
|
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
err, I guess I worded that poorly, I wasn't implying you were the OP, sorry haha. | ||
|
win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
But hey, there was little I could do to stop the scv from getting killed by drone... i was gonna make the scv run, but he was in a position where he'd go to the drone's side of the wall, getting killed anyways. About killing ovies first, I honestly didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know that. Also, I think I won't do 2-port wraith into mech... I did this cos I was getting tired of getting raped by lurkers when I do the wraith-MnM transition. I guess the MnM are still better. However, I'm confused as to when exactly I should expand. Should I make CC after getting 6 wraiths? 8? Should I build up about 2 barracks in addition to the one at the wall before CC? I've been looking at Leta's games, but its hard to see his exact build order since its not an FPVOD... | ||
|
Manifesto7
Osaka27156 Posts
You take your expo when it is safe to do so. This will happen a lot faster if you bio than if you mech. | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
Don't transition from 2 Port into Mech; it's too gas intensive. Even without good micro and only a few overlord kills, 2 Port opening --> MnM is so good at a low level because most D level Zergs don't know transition into Lurkers in time so they're left with Hydras/Mutas vs MnM, which does shit since Hydras are extremely inefficient vs MnM in smaller numbers. | ||
|
B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
I remember playing a game where I go 2-port wraiths (sorry, don't have rep). He had hydras out before my wraiths arrived so I couldn't do much damage. I transitioned into MnM and moved out when I had about 1.5 groups + ~10 wraiths, but he totally crushed me with muta-ling. Is this something that only happened because I couldn't do serious damage or is muta-ling a "true threat"? | ||
| ||
