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Hi everyone! im a D+/C- player and since i saw the game between yellow vs bisu and yellow[arnc] vs JangBi i thought i could try to use this strategy and it works.
==== 12 Hatch Build Order ===
12 - hatch
11 - pool
10 - gas
13 - drones
@100 gas - lair
@100 gas - ling speed
@ 100% lair - hydra den
@200 gas - drop tech
@200 gas - lurk tech
@300 minerals - 3rd hatch and 2nd gas
=== Overpool Build Order ===
9 - Overlord (Send it to the drop place)
9 - Spawing pool
8 - Drone
9 - Gas
8 - 2 Drones
@100% Extractor - Put 3 drones (just before it finishes)
10 - 6 lings
@100 gas - Ling speed and leave ONLY 1 drone in gas
13 - 2 lings (total 8)
14 - 2nd Hatch at natural
13 - 2 Drone
15- Lair ( put 3 drones on gas now)
15 - Ovie
15 - Keep making drones
@100% Lair - Drop tech and hydra den right after
@100% den - Lurk tech and move your first ovie to the drop location
24 - 2 Hydra (send them to the drop location asap)
26 - Ovie
3rd hatch and 2nd gas, keep making drones till 30/34
@100% Drop - drop 2 hydras and 8 lings
@100% lurk tech - Morph hydras in his base and use lings to kill the cannons
==== Early Game ===
You make 8 lings to stop any posible agresion from the P player and also to keep him blind, try to make as many drones as possible because you wont have more in a while.
=== Mid Game ===
When Drop tech finishes you drop your 8 lings and a couple of hydras at the main, morph the hydra and use the lings to kill his cannons. When the lurkers pop try to kill probes and teching builds
Mass hydra and make ovie speed doom drop / contain and you are 3 bases vs 1 base.
Rep 12 hatch @ iccup: 2 hatch lurk on destination
Rep Overpool vs comp: OverPool vs Comp
The rep isnt very skilled but it show the power of the strat.
Waiting for your answers or recomendations.
I also post this in the liquipedia with the name of two hatch lurker drop but i dont know how to link it in the Zerg Strategy.
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Thanks for the great Build order 
so why exactly do you morph the hydras in there?
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You morpth the hydras up the hill for two reasons:
1- Lurk tech isnt finished
2- if you morph them down he could use the sair to kill your overlord and you wouldnt be able to go up the cliff
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3. Lurkers take 2 slots. Hydras 1. Requires less Overlords.
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On June 27 2009 01:49 NonFactor wrote:
3. Lurkers take 2 slots. Hydras 1. Requires less Overlords.
I think this was  YellOw's reasoning vs  Bisu
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Hmm, I like it. Definitely going to try it out.
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On June 27 2009 01:49 NonFactor wrote:
3. Lurkers take 4 slots. Hydras 2. Requires less Overlords.
fixed =)
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i've been using this strategy ever since that Yellow vs Bisu match tho i tech lurker after hydra speed and range since u will outnumber their zealots anyway and get rid of the front forge and gate faster, and ofc drop about 8 hydras and lings in their expo or main. Then when they send troops there 2 defend, u can just 1a2a their front with a few storm dodge and BAM!! u win
basically just fast hydra or lurker and drop, done (dont even need 2 tech spire <_<)
been playing 5 decent protosses with this build and its working great
this build owns bisu's FE sair DT pretty hardcore and i think it will revolutionize the current ZvP
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The problem of that is he will have observers in time and you dont have totally map control if he goes something diffrent to stargate. If you tech lurk first you will arrive and delay his mining a minute at least and normally you will delay it totally
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On June 27 2009 03:39 Battle wrote:
The problem of that is he will have observers in time and you dont have totally map control if he goes something diffrent to stargate. If you tech lurk first you will arrive and delay his mining a minute at least and normally you will delay it totally
yes, im not saying lurker 1st is a bad idea, just saying if u go mass hydra works 2 and making more sairs should be the last thing they do cuz u should have ur ovies covered by 2-3 hydras underneath in base and about 5-6 ovies where your army groups at in their front gate rdy for drop
also it wont even matter whether he gets observer or not if i go with fast hydra since my main force will be hyrdas
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D+,C- with 128 apm you are gosu. ill try this thanks
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I promise im C- check cocabobar acc in iccup. Im not gosu at all D+ its pretty easy to get and C- was my last achievement.
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This doesnt work too hot with a 12 hatch, you cant let him scout, the best opening for this is overpool or 9 pool speed.
And you morph until youre inside his base because lurker aspect isnt finished yet as you start it some moments after you start drop, since youre only on 1 gas.
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On June 27 2009 05:29 Cloud wrote:
This doesnt work too hot with a 12 hatch, you cant let him scout, the best opening for this is overpool or 9 pool speed.
You are right about scouting, the problem with it is that will be more like an all in (late 3rd and 4th), if u watch arnc vs jangbi it was scouted and work also (ofc its medusa and u have the temples). and normally he wont be able to scout your den if you have your 8 lings quite fast. i prefer 12 hatching but if you read the wiki it also covers your point.
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This build isn't good...
Protoss players will see that you're going 2 hatch lair and know that something is up. Obviously they don't know exactly what, but they will know that if they defend they win. They might be able to even see the Hydralisk Den going up, because you can't stop a decent Protoss from scouting you before ling speed finishes without mass amounts of lings. In your replay the Protoss lets his probe die to four Zerglings in like 30 seconds - not very good play.
I think you need to open 9 pool gas to kill scouting. Also, 12 hatch is a pretty terrible opening on Destination no matter what you're doing against Protoss.
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Awesome strategy, thanks for the build order. What are the changes if you go overpool for faster scout denial? You going to post it for liquipedia?
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Ok, i have not made this build order i have copied it from two pro games where both of the zergs wone vs Jangbi and bisu. The 9 pool or overpool is very posible and wont affect the build order very much.
the link is this: 2 hatch lurker drop
I will try to post the 9pool variation in liquipedia but i will have to measure the timings so maybe i will post it tomorrow of the day after. for those who think its a bad strategy just try it and see. I am looking forward to someone good to play it and post a rep even though if he looses.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Interesting to see it written out. I'll try it out sometime.
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On June 27 2009 05:48 Battle wrote:Ok, i have not made this build order i have copied it from two pro games where both of the zergs wone vs Jangbi and bisu. The 9 pool or overpool is very posible and wont affect the build order very much. the link is this: 2 hatch lurker dropI will try to post the 9pool variation in liquipedia but i will have to measure the timings so maybe i will post it tomorrow of the day after. for those who think its a bad strategy just try it and see. I am looking forward to someone good to play it and post a rep even though if he looses.
Yea, I didn't mean that the idea behind the build was bad, I just meant that the opening was bad. The 9 pool gas/overpool gas (depending on map) shouldn't be a variation - it should be the only version.
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this is fastest way after runby to finish fast a game
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I double checked the vods, Yellow did an overpool, fakeyellow did a 12 hatch. So as of yet there is no reason to say conclusively 12 hatch does not work or is inferior.
Perhaps this is because even if they spot the 2hatch lair the toss has to be worrying about mutalisks? But then I would think you would counter both by putting cannons in your main mineral line.
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with the fast drop, a toss will have 2 put cannons all over the place and thus delay his own tech and unit production
lol i really wanna c a pro toss beating this build against a pro zerg
really, the strongest point of this build is the drop cuz it allows zerg 2 by pass the cannons toss put up
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Oh and btw, im pretty sure you got your gas timings mixed up, theres no way you can afford lair followed by ling speed, den, drop and lurker aspect all from 1 gas without waiting for gas.
with an overpool speed you even have to wait a bit after researching drop to research lurker aspect, despite getting lair after speed.
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On June 27 2009 07:50 Cloud wrote:
Oh and btw, im pretty sure you got your gas timings mixed up, theres no way you can afford lair followed by ling speed, den, drop and lurker aspect all from 1 gas without waiting for gas.
with an overpool speed you even have to wait a bit after researching drop to research lurker aspect, despite getting lair after speed.
I didnt messed up the timings at all, ofc you cant make drop tech and lurker tech at the same time, but the thing is that you make the drop tech and after ( u almost have 0 gas left after it ) you make the lurker aspect, this way they both end up at the same time, lurk tech a little later but thats the time you are dropping him.
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Ok, but how much do you have to wait after your lair is finished to start drop? and wouldnt you agree that getting den at 50% lair is bad since you're not gonna start lurker immediately after lair is done?
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Ok, but how much do you have to wait after your lair is finished to start drop? Nothing, you will have 184 gas at least, thats 2 seconds.
getting den at 50% lair is bad since you're not gonna start lurker immediately? totally agree, i think i will change that.
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By the way you should add that you send your first 2 ovies towards his main, your second one can stay on his nat for a while but sooner or later, gotta send both of them just outside his main. And the 3rd one goes to his nat to drop the 3rd lurker you have there, asap.
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very nice build order...it's worked everytime i've seen it lol
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this wont work vs a decent protoss. hell, im D+ but if i dont see a 3rd hatch i know somethings up. which will mean more scouting a more hungry corsair and more cannons everywhere. honestly i dont see this working at high level. bisu was pretty arrogant that game -_-
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this build is much better with 9overpool, because the protoss will have to prepare for a lot more cheeses. Meaning cannons in the main, natural and nat front.
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Ok i have updated the Post with the overpool opening, it makes the drop at the same time and the economy is about the same (3rd hatch at the same time) so i would recommend to use this build as other people said before, i manage to make the drop at 6 min mark which should be the same time as his sair pops out. Waiting for your answers.
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just one detail//
in the 12 hatch BO there is no point in doing den at 50% of lair, u wont have the gas to lurk and ventral at same time. you can delay a little bit. How much? i dont remember exactly, but i think i use to let one drone mine 2 times on lair at 50% then doing my den.
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i think throwing den early is safe cuz u can make few hydras out early 2 prevent sair harass
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sair harras wouldnt come till you have your drop finished, in fact he will have ONE sair by the time you are dropping him and he couldnt kill your ovie if the cliff distance is short enough
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Props for putting it on liquipedia. I went ahead and added your page to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_Strategy (look at the draft until it gets confirmed). FYI you link things by doing [[{Title of Wiki page <-yes this seems just like magic}|{Optional Custom Link text here}]].
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United States17042 Posts
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On June 28 2009 13:13 Strayline wrote:Props for putting it on liquipedia. I went ahead and added your page to http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_Strategy (look at the draft until it gets confirmed). FYI you link things by doing [[{Title of Wiki page <-yes this seems just like magic}|{Optional Custom Link text here}]].
I did that but i think the page wasnt reviewed yet so i couldnt link it
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I fucking hate this build. Still adjusting to it. Lost about 5 games so far to it. I have beaten it the last time it was tried against me though. Was still a close game.
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On July 07 2009 14:31 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I fucking hate this build. Still adjusting to it. Lost about 5 games so far to it. I have beaten it the last time it was tried against me though. Was still a close game.
In fact it could be really hard to beat if you went citadel instead of robo (which a lot of P users do) and even thoudh you are 2 base vs 3 and with lurker tech and drop tech already in play, i think the way to beat it is use the lack of spire with templar drops. if you kill some of his drones, after 2 or 3 min after his drop he is really fucked.
Could you post the replays? It would be awesome.
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Shouldnt a protoss scout for the OL as soon as the corsair comes out? Or is it not out in time, I havent really tested it.
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Thank you for sharing. Cannot wait to try it out! :-)
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On June 27 2009 12:56 lazz wrote:
this wont work vs a decent protoss. hell, im D+ but if i dont see a 3rd hatch i know somethings up. which will mean more scouting a more hungry corsair and more cannons everywhere. honestly i dont see this working at high level. bisu was pretty arrogant that game -_-
You get lings to block the scout at your ramp? Have you never played against a zerg that doesn't double expand?
A key part of this is to deny scouting.
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Should you get a spire after the drop for scourge to snipe observers? I guess if you're using mianly hydras after the first three lurkers it's not too important, but it could be useful anyway, since if the P starts dropping templar to take advantage of no spire you could be in trouble.
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A P seeing a 2 hat/early lair build expects 2 hat mutas or slow lurker drop, so they will put more cannons around the main mineral line before you get to drop. At that point it all depends: you might get lucky and kill the right cannon to still be able to attack part of the mineral line, or you may be able to kill archives or slow some other tech (what also works ok is to position a lurker on the route his probes take to reach the natural, and then attack his min line, hoping you kill many of them during transfer); of course, you may also fail to kill any probes or significant buildings. In the latter scenario you stay on 2 bases for too long + have a low drone count and get rolled by the Ps superior macro once they get temps and obos.
To recap - the slow lurker drop build worked as an all-in for me. If they don't see it coming / panic / I get lucky, its all good. Otherwise P's macro owns me.
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it's ok. but i would wait till lurker finish and send lurker ling to kill cannons because usually toss will anticipate mutas and make 2 cannons anyways in main.
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I think the 12 hatch variation is only good at Medusa and other maps with a easy 2 entrence to the protoss base. Since he will know it is comming he will have to make cannons at both front and back and therefore puts his eco far behind whats normal and u can play it as a macro game from there. Since his eco will be bad, like yours. Or if he dont make enough cannons, you kill him!
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EPT
