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I've noticed people going for a pylon at 7.5 instead of waiting for the 8th probe to pop out.
From what I gather from my own play, if I build the pylon at 7.5, probe production isn't halted while waiting for it to finish warping in; however, it is halted a second or two to wait for the next 50 minerals to begin the 8th probe. On the other hand, a pylon at 8 does halt the production a second or two while waiting for it to warp in, but it seems to allow for my gateway to be built a little earlier due to the slightly increased speed of mineral accumulation than if I had gone with the 7.5 pylon.
I believe that the 8pylon is better for the economy because you can gather more resources earlier and faster than with the 7.5 pylon. Why is it that so many toss nowadays go with the 7.5 pylon?
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You should get a pylon as soon as you have the 100 minerals. With perfect timing/split and etc, you will not have any delay.
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There is no such thing as a 7.5 pylon.
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8 Pylon means you build it when your supply is at 8, which is as soon as you start building the 8th probe, and you build the pylon as soon as you can once you have 100 minerals. Otherwise, your 10th probe will be delayed (assuming you're doing normal builds).
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There is no way to have 100 minerals before the 7th probe pops out (on standard maps).
Perhaps what you have seen is players sending out a probe before the 7th is ready when they want to build the pylon at their choke or nat ?
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if u make the plyon at 7.5, your 8th will have a very slight delay, but if u timed it right, ur 10th will have little to no delay. however, if u make the pylon at 8th, u would have to wait a few seconds for the 10th.
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Norway28781 Posts
either send out the 7th probe that finishes (but start building 8th probe) if you are making the first pylon somewhat away from your nexus, like if youre expanding pvz medusa, then you get 100 around the time your probe gets there, or just start building your 8th probe and pull away a probe around 80 minerals or so.
its not that complicated really, you just build probes constantly until you have started building the 8th and then you time the probe movement + income so you get to build it where you want it when you have 100
you should always be 8/9 when you start building the first pylon.
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7.5 pylon IS 8 pylon. You have 7 probes, your 8th is building, and this is when everyone builds their pylon. At 8 psi, when you have 7 probes and your 8th is in progress
There's no reason to wait for the 8th probe to finish to build the pylon, and that would be a 9 pylon. Your economy argument isn't quite right. You lose more mining time waiting for the pylon to finish to get your 10th probe than you do running your 7th probe to build a pylon and telling it to mine
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Just BUILD (not send the probe) the damn pylon as soon as the count hits 100 (EXACTLY)
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United States17042 Posts
I think that by 7.5 pylon he means seventh pylon, as he's talking about waiting to start building the 8th probe.
He might also be talking about 7 pylon 9 gate, but it doesn't sound like it.
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I think this case has been solved. Good work.
So in conclusion, have your probes building all the time and get that pylon down at 8.
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yay
overlord at 8
gotcha 
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On May 06 2009 02:14 Purind wrote:
7.5 pylon IS 8 pylon. You have 7 probes, your 8th is building, and this is when everyone builds their pylon. At 8 psi, when you have 7 probes and your 8th is in progress
There's no reason to wait for the 8th probe to finish to build the pylon, and that would be a 9 pylon. Your economy argument isn't quite right. You lose more mining time waiting for the pylon to finish to get your 10th probe than you do running your 7th probe to build a pylon and telling it to mine
This. People just call it 8 pylon because that is what your psi is shown to be when your pylon should be built, 7.5 is just being more specific, when your 8th probe is half built, construct a pylon.
I don't quite understand the misunderstanding some people have. =[
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There gotta be more interesting things to discuss, right? -_-
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
what the hell is 7.5 pylon? does your supply say 7.5/9 on your screen? no.
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Your 8th probe is under way at like 50% when you build the first pylon. Your supply counter shows 8/9
Duh. Was it really that hard?
Edit: Ah, got beaten to it already. But seriously guys.
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I always thought 7.5 pylon (or anything) was when your supply is at 7/9 and is halfway towards 8/9.. seems more logical to me considering basically all build orders use actual supply counts.
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I only use 7.5 pylon on Medusa because it times out correctly so that by the time the probe reaches the place for wallin, you can put down a pylon immediatly.
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On May 06 2009 03:17 NrG.ZaM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2009 02:14 Purind wrote:
7.5 pylon IS 8 pylon. You have 7 probes, your 8th is building, and this is when everyone builds their pylon. At 8 psi, when you have 7 probes and your 8th is in progress
There's no reason to wait for the 8th probe to finish to build the pylon, and that would be a 9 pylon. Your economy argument isn't quite right. You lose more mining time waiting for the pylon to finish to get your 10th probe than you do running your 7th probe to build a pylon and telling it to mine This. People just call it 8 pylon because that is what your psi is shown to be when your pylon should be built, 7.5 is just being more specific, when your 8th probe is half built, construct a pylon. I don't quite understand the misunderstanding some people have. =[
I'd say these 2 comments clear up the confusion.
Just to add to this...there's no reason to use decimals to indicate when something should be constructed at x supply. Whenever you want to build a pylon, you do it when you have 100 minerals. If you want to build the pylon before 8 supply, you will have to cut probes obviously, but it goes down at 100 minerals regardless.
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I think this the same as terran getting 8/10 supply, instead of 9/10.
If you have a perfect split, and get a supply at 8/10 when your worker is almost done and you have like 140 minerals, there should be no delay on the 9th or 10th worker.
I suppose the reason why people dont do it, is because the 8th worker mining is slightly more important than any other worker follows it.
Therefore, losing that worker to build a supply, or in your case, delaying the 8th probe to favor the 9th will give you a slight disadvantage.
It all so slight it may not have any impact in the game whatsoever. Comes down to preference.
Terrans also like getting 12 rack, 12 gas to maximize workers mining and time so that when racks is done they have 100 gas. If you do 11 racks, you racks comes earlier, but you lose like 8 minerals, that you will recover later on. Weird huh? :p
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LOL, omg.
7.5 Pylon vs 8 Pylon...
LOLOLOLOL... TEARS
Ahh salty cheeks T.T
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On May 06 2009 04:43 Hundredth wrote:
I always thought 7.5 pylon (or anything) was when your supply is at 7/9 and is halfway towards 8/9.. seems more logical to me considering basically all build orders use actual supply counts.
No. Your supply says 8 because you have 7 probes and 1 in the making. So 7.5 (stupid) means your supply says 8/9 going towards 9/9.
And to the OP, when your 8th probe comes out it'll say 9/9 and you want to make a pylon then? Well then it's late.
You also said:
On May 06 2009 01:10 pRo9aMeR wrote:
I believe that the 8pylon is better for the economy because you can gather more resources earlier and faster than with the 7.5 pylon.
This is terribly wrong. Your economy suffers throughout the entire game because you will never get the time you lost--when you are supply stuck--back. Probes are made 1 by 1 so every probe after the first late probe is also late. This effect is, of course, less for the Zergs because of the larva system.
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Even without a perfect split, you're capped for like .3 seconds at most, I honestly don't see how this matters the tiny bit untill you're at bisus levelx1000.
I know people are obsessed with the "exponential difference through out the game" but ffs guys come on 
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no difference
8 pylon best way
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Wasn't it proved that 8/9 overlord was slightly better than 9/9 lord?
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Simple:
when you start 8th probe, the supply count is 8/9. After that you will reach 100 minerals before the 8th probe really pops out. You will make the pylon right at 100 minerals.
I haven't really seen any good protoss make pylon at 9/9 which is after 8th probe pops out..
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Hmmm, isn't there any early pylon build timing for faster gateway.
Basically this would be used to rush a 12 hatch.
So I think if you build your Pylon when you have 7 supply (delaying your 8th probe) you can get the pylon earlier and get a gateway earlier?
And if that doesn't quite work you can build your gateway at 8 supply (slightly delaying your 9th probe). This could be good on a small map like colloseum (colloseum also has the mineral patches very close to the nexus so might be even better on this map).
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I just tried the above strat on colloseum on fast setting to allow a better split.
The 8/9 gate strategy seemed to work very similar to 9/10 gate econ wise but allowed a much faster zealot :O
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That is 7pylon sir, not 7.5(read: 8).
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On May 06 2009 09:25 ultramagnetics wrote:
Hmmm, isn't there any early pylon build timing for faster gateway.
Basically this would be used to rush a 12 hatch.
6 pylon, 6 gate, resume probes, pylons, zealots nonstop.
You can forge expo from here or try teching or such.
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8 pylon
9 depot
Enough said.
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On May 06 2009 08:52 Epicfailguy wrote:Even without a perfect split, you're capped for like .3 seconds at most, I honestly don't see how this matters the tiny bit untill you're at bisus levelx1000. I know people are obsessed with the "exponential difference through out the game" but ffs guys come on
Its not an exponential differnce at all. If the first probe is a little late than you lose only that mining time that it's late. There are no exponential mathmatics involved.
Honestly things like this make very little(almost no) difference if youre playing a standard game.
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On May 06 2009 09:19 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Wasn't it proved that 8/9 overlord was slightly better than 9/9 lord?
No it wasnt.
God you post a lot of shit Charlie...
There WAS an experiment done however to see if if the drone trick was worth it or not. It was determined to be pretty much exactly the same. If you plan on scouting with an early drone though, its better to use the extractor trick.
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It's funny how half the posters are like "wtf is 7.5 pylon?" LOL
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I think a lot of you are just giving him shit for his poor technical usage of terms. It's not too hard to figure out what he's saying. What he's saying is that (and I'm going to write it all out as a lot of people seem to need this explained)
"A lot of people are building 7 probes, then cutting building the 8th probe for maybe 1-1.5 seconds to build a pylon. Then they resume the 8th and 9th probe. This allows the pylon to finish slightly earlier, thus the pylon will finish warping right before the 9th probe finishes, allowing you to immediately build a 10th probe without any delay. If you never cut probes for a second before building the pylon, you would have started building your 8th probe, then build the pylon shortly after. This results in your 9th probe finishing as the pylon finishes warping, causing a 2-2.5 second delay with which you're at a supply limit and have to cut probes. Which is better to do? Cut probes earlier for a 1-1.5 second a little earlier on or cut probes a little later on for 2-2.5 seconds? Personally I think it's better to do the latter, as if you cutting probes earlier on, even for a shorter time, is more detrimental. What do you think?"
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On May 06 2009 12:24 Wuewdoodoo wrote:
It's funny how half the posters are like "wtf is 7.5 pylon?" LOL
No one is like that. Everyone knows what he's talking about, which is 8 pylon, which you obviously do when the 8th probe is "about" halfway done because that's "about" when you have 100 minerals, and that's standard.
It's just stupid to call it 7.5 pylon because no one does that and it's ambiguous. What the hell would 21.5 Stargate mean? Nothing. It just so happens that in this case it is easy to interpret his true meaning.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On May 06 2009 12:24 Wuewdoodoo wrote:
It's funny how half the posters are like "wtf is 7.5 pylon?" LOL
they are making fun of the terminology. what's hard to get? LOL
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It was very unambiguous from his post what he meant. We all knew what he meant. There's nothing wrong with telling him what the common terminology is. It'll make it much easier for him to describe things in the future if he actually learns building terminology
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On May 06 2009 12:37 FabledIntegral wrote:
I think a lot of you are just giving him shit for his poor technical usage of terms. It's not too hard to figure out what he's saying. What he's saying is that (and I'm going to write it all out as a lot of people seem to need this explained)
"A lot of people are building 7 probes, then cutting building the 8th probe for maybe 1-1.5 seconds to build a pylon. Then they resume the 8th and 9th probe. This allows the pylon to finish slightly earlier, thus the pylon will finish warping right before the 9th probe finishes, allowing you to immediately build a 10th probe without any delay. If you never cut probes for a second before building the pylon, you would have started building your 8th probe, then build the pylon shortly after. This results in your 9th probe finishing as the pylon finishes warping, causing a 2-2.5 second delay with which you're at a supply limit and have to cut probes. Which is better to do? Cut probes earlier for a 1-1.5 second a little earlier on or cut probes a little later on for 2-2.5 seconds? Personally I think it's better to do the latter, as if you cutting probes earlier on, even for a shorter time, is more detrimental. What do you think?"
This is exactly what I meant to say, I've never talked about starcraft much with other people. But in my head I knew what I was trying to say. So basically, what FabledIntegral said, is what I was trying to say in the first place. Sorry for the confusion or misuse of terms, and yes, I know "7.5" doesn't exist^^
And to add to the bold part to further my question, why have I seen other players delay starting the 8th probe in order to start the pylon earlier if they are just doing a standard 10/12gate opening?
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i think 7.75 pylon is best.
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EPT
