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! Day[9] Podcasts E14: TvZ on Heartbreak Ridge - Page 21

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
969 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 49 Next All
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
April 25 2009 15:09 GMT
#401
"protosses can just get a spire"

"We have unfinished business, I and he."
whatusername
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1181 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-26 01:27:46
April 26 2009 01:27 GMT
#402
is it viable for zerg to get lurkers instead of massing hydras off of 5hatch?
im gay
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7695 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-26 03:35:55
April 26 2009 03:13 GMT
#403
On April 26 2009 10:27 whatusername wrote:
is it viable for zerg to get lurkers instead of massing hydras off of 5hatch?


Competely!

There are variations where you get no more then 8-12 hydra into lurker or muta. The lurker varation can be more dangerous.

Check out Jaedong Vs Much on katrina SE. Jaedong uses 4 hat hydra(small amount) into 5 hat lurker -> muta. This build is very strong when your timings roll of without a hitch. Although one kink in the timing of anything and you might very well be in store for a brutal rape!
Priapus
Profile Joined March 2009
United States36 Posts
April 26 2009 05:44 GMT
#404
On April 25 2009 19:18 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2009 11:25 skyglow1 wrote:
On April 25 2009 09:06 NeVeR wrote:
4t5t6v7v8v9v is better because you will still be able to move the screen around or use the mini-map in the process of macroing. With enough practice, you can do it very quickly. I use middle finger on 4-6, pointer on t, pointer on 7-9, ring on v.


If you start to get mroe factories, larger armiers that require mroe control groups, and want to keep like 3 scans then it becomes more difficult to macro purely with the keyboard.


Generally when doing any move, with mouse or keyboard, you seek efficiency.
You have a task ahead of you and you want to execute it with the least amount of effort and the fastest way possible.
This is the only rule that can be applied on all situations, and thats why better players can sometimes make exceptions from the hotkey rule while lesser players shouldn't think of such things very much.

In this situation we have a pretty hard handmove, although perfectly doable with some practice if you decide do 4t5t6v7v8v9v, or an easy handmove with in 4t5t6789.
The second alternative is less complex and equally efficiant (if not even more efficiant because you will have a really hard time to misclick).
NeVeR mentioned that you'll still be able to move around the minimap etc if you use 100% hotkeys, and its good to think of such things, but If you watch the VOD with the example you can see that the macromove takes less than 0.5 seconds, and that reasoning alone is not enough to rather do a move that requires more effort, is harder and has the same efficieny.


To easier explain the principle of this reasoning I'll discuss a move obvious case.
+ Show Spoiler +

Lets say you are going to macro from buildings 4 5 6 7, units that have hotkeys p a n w.
Lets also say that each of the buildings are of different kinds and that the unit you're going to build in each building are the first unit in that building.
In this example you could practice and develop a way to macro with the keyboard only and execute 4p5a6n7w.
Or you could select the buildings 4 5 6 7 and click with the mouse on the same spot of the screen 4 times.

This is a very extreme situation, and most of you would see pretty fast which move is the most efficient and requires the least amount of effort. The only reason you see it so fast is because of the extremity of the example, but the PRINCIPLE is the same.
Its harder to see in the 4t5t6v7v8v9v for some people but still has to be applied when working with the important principle of effortless and efficient handmoves.


Skyglow1; Yes, both are useful in different situations. Thats why, in a specific situation, macroing 4t5t6789 is the better option for the moment, hence the exception. The reason why its better than going back and clicking on the factories and building units with the hotkeys is because it requires less handmoves/clicks and you will not have to leave the heat of combat while its still very fast.

Whenever you cannot hotkey all your factories or prioritize hotkeying other stuff this exception can no longer be applied.

However when trying to explain the general idea of hotkey usage, as I said earlier, its not a good idea to take those exceptions into account. There are most often exceptions to any rule.
In this case simply because of the keyboard layout and that the rule of efficiency and less effort applies over the "always use hotkey"-rule.

I just figured it would be good to atleast mention that there are exceptions while not thoroughly explaining them, although I had to in this case because people asked me to.
Going to listen to 5hatch hydra now, nice work day[9].





Nice addition to the topic thanks ...
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
April 26 2009 06:37 GMT
#405
Day, your cast just improved my PvZ 10x fold

Thanks!
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 26 2009 06:49 GMT
#406
omg new podcast. fapfapfap. thnx day9!!!!
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
fishyjoes
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Germany644 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-26 12:49:14
April 26 2009 10:39 GMT
#407
Thank you Day9 for another awesome episode!

But, but exactly do you mean by saying "You have to put your Hydras and Mutas to use". You where talking about the most standard 5hat hydra -> muta. You obviously dont mean when the p turtles z should try to break the nat and in the end only melt to storm. Do you mean keep harassing with mutas? Get drop and drop the main/3rd expo if the protoss turtles?

And could u give a brief layout for the timings of each build u presented?
Like get the evo when your lair finishes so you have +1 when the first push comes. Or when you take ur first/second gas.
infinite fun: http://dagobah.biz/flash/loituma.swf
Rojam
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany234 Posts
April 26 2009 11:10 GMT
#408
YEAH a zerg cast awesome !!!! happy me
wwooaa
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Croatia179 Posts
April 26 2009 20:01 GMT
#409
This is awesome, clearly better than any of the strategies written
wWoOaA)Is( /// kasda.cry...Ninjas can't catch you if you are on FIRE !
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
April 26 2009 21:35 GMT
#410
On April 26 2009 19:39 fishyjoes wrote:
Thank you Day9 for another awesome episode!

But, but exactly do you mean by saying "You have to put your Hydras and Mutas to use". You where talking about the most standard 5hat hydra -> muta. You obviously dont mean when the p turtles z should try to break the nat and in the end only melt to storm. Do you mean keep harassing with mutas? Get drop and drop the main/3rd expo if the protoss turtles?

And could u give a brief layout for the timings of each build u presented?
Like get the evo when your lair finishes so you have +1 when the first push comes. Or when you take ur first/second gas.

First gas usually after 3rd hat. Second gas after you put down 5hatches and a hydra den. Evo chamber goes down here too~
Moderator。◕‿◕。
djdolber
Profile Joined May 2008
Sweden85 Posts
April 27 2009 22:52 GMT
#411
great stuff
SCV good to go sir!
MutaDoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1163 Posts
April 28 2009 03:46 GMT
#412
Day[9], you're a fucking magician as always. You've improved everyone's Z play over and over, and we love you for it. I'm eagerly awaiting the next, especially something I can use ZvZ, as my muta micro's decent, but my timing is about as effective as a picture of Rosie O'Donnell at a circle jerk; It's NO GOOD.
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
April 28 2009 05:57 GMT
#413
nice day! even tho i dont have a revolation while watching these. I cant stop watching them i find then entertaining to say the least
keep up the good work!
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
April 29 2009 06:06 GMT
#414
Thanks a lot for this. Great work.
cujo2k
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada1044 Posts
April 29 2009 12:01 GMT
#415
Would be awesome if you could provide replays of yourself doing each variation.. but regardless, this is still pretty cool. BTW, I'm wondering jaedong would've gone all in muta if the probe didn't scout his lair? Has he done the 2 hatch into 5 hatch hydra more than once?
Anyways, tyvm for the podcast, keep them coming <3
THE ANSWER IS 288
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
April 30 2009 05:22 GMT
#416
You spoiled me! I'm waiting for more!
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
April 30 2009 06:24 GMT
#417
Wow, this is awesome. I'm a total noob after having not played for years, so these basic concepts are really helpful. I definitely have terrible habits in terms of hotkeys (as in, I rarely used them).
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
cHicKeLoR
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany559 Posts
April 30 2009 09:44 GMT
#418
thx for the zerg cast. It is awesome and helped me a lot. Keep up the good work.
RubiksCube
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Germany259 Posts
May 05 2009 11:00 GMT
#419
<3 for these, now I got something to listen to if I don't wanna listen to music when going to work/getting of work.

I'd like you to talk about Queens in general as a unit, why is it so underused. One queen for example would be a great late game scout in any match up, especially coupled with parasite, you'd be able to constantly check for expansions because of the great speed of the queen and maybe even kill a cc via infestation that you would just have damaged without the queen.
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
May 05 2009 15:21 GMT
#420
i'll do it sooooooooon
i JUST finished my semester at school. final week was ewww
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
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