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[G] The SuperMerine Manual

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-26 19:39:36
January 26 2009 19:38 GMT
#1
The SuperMarine Manual

http://www.ygosu.com/?m=starlife&m2=strategy&idx=41&s_race=&s_level=&search=&searcht=&page=1

tsaa yeah. ratatata~

CHAPTER ONE
A marine, a barracks, and a command center.


Ever since Oov showed the art of double cc on TV, the quest towards it's perfection began. Looking at the history fast CC builds - FacCC, 3raxCC, 2Rax pressure CC, 2rax 1RineCC, 0RaxCC - it's easy to see the trend is towards faster and faster CCs. Vs Zerg, the FE and macro style has become the new trend.

Let's examine the fastest two CC builds - 2rax 1 Rine CC and 0Rax CC.
2raxCC's expo seems the safest and most common option.
Since you can make marines from 2 rax, it affords additional safety (... however -_-;; )
0Rax CC, even though it's the fastest CC, the tech is slow and the lack of early units makes kekeke chogoling rushes and makes things like 2 evo hydra possible.
And so, while there may be an original 1rax 1rineCC, here is how Super Marines are made.

First off, if you run one rax constantly then make a CC, it's a little faster than 2raxCC, and slightly slower than 0raxCC. Get a fast academy, some scholarly firebats and well-learned medics and repel any zergling terror. 7-8 marines, medic, firebat, and the nat running smooth, nice ya?

The marine, barracks and command center begins something like this...

-The Build-
8 - Supply
9 - Scout
10 - Rax, 5-second worker cut,
11 - Supply
15 - Cut scvs, +CC +Marine +Gas
- Make Marines +Scvs +Acad
This is the build to grab your natural.

Upon reaching this point in the game, depending on the scouting your decisions will change.

1. 12 hatch / 3hatch
Vs 12 hatch 11pool - By the time he has 6 lings, you should have 4 marines.
***With 1 or 2 scvs and some micro, it is easy to neutralize.
At 10 ling timing, bat/medic comes out. Just go on to the next chapter.

2. 4 pool 7 pool, 9 pool, speed upgrade rush
Vs pool first and gas - Make 2 rax asap [!!!]
After the initial lings, 1 hatch lurker follow through is very common...
***So play as if you were playing off 1 base and follow through with a well timed hanbang(one-shot).

....and so the scvs worked and the new academy opened...

CHAPTER TWO
The Management After CC...


-The Build-
(Upon Finishing Acad)
Stim Up
2 Ebay @ ~200/150
Dual Ups
+2rax
Factory
-Scout/Scan for expos.

Get stim while running 1 rax.
You should slowly notice the economy picking up from the two bases.
When you are at about 250/150, send two SCVS out to construct dual Ebays.
When they complete, dual upgrade and add 2 rax.
Keep the one rax pumping and keep up supplies on your own.
While building the 2rax, get range, and you should have money left over.
Make your factory ASAP.
When the two rax are about 30% done is when the fact goes up.
Time to scouting~

1. I SEE A DEN!
***Marine/Medic deploy for containment!!!
While deploying, you must macro well. 1rax CC's econ picks up fast.

2. SPIYO~~
***Turret up, MM in defensive formation
Macro, and prepare yourself for the next step.

3. BOTH!?!?!
The villain has both techs! O, this is a little complicated!
You can try to read between hydra or muta by looking at the larva.
***First thing first, let's just deploy MM while using your 2scans to find out what's coming.
If hydra, stay out and pressure.
If Muta, come back in.
In this scenario, because the turret and 3rax are in play, even fast mutas won't hurt too much.

4. I scanned the den BUT A HATCH AT THE GAS MULTI!?!?!
***Build 2 bunkers at the nat choke while deploying units to pressure the Zerg expo.
After killing the hatchery, you can't have too much home insurance.

5. I scanned the spire BUT A HATCH AT THE GAS MULTI!?!?!
***Take about 5rines 1bat1med and use them as special forces.
Set them up outside and as soon as you see mutas coming in, send these out to kill the hatchery.

6- I scanned the den, the spire AND A HATCH AT THE GAS MULTI?!??!
Good chance this won't be seen. The den and spire takes away from hatchery mins. But the opponent coulda opened 3 hatch and be rich, so this scenario is mentioned.
***First off, the special forces are sent out like in the previous scenario. If you see zerglings trying to leak out from here or there, engage and buy time and harass. When the mutas come out, don't congregate into one ball, but still move the special forces squad out for hatch break.

- Transition -
As chapter two closes, the super marines come to save the day.
This is your hantiming. Send them out and now we have a third option tree.
The super marines are +1+1 hantiming marines.
Take as much adv of these guys as you can, and as we near the end of chapter two...
...you have the option of kicking up the rax count to 4.

The super marines knew it was time...

CHAPTER THREE
And They Declared War...!!!


-6rax with steady a fac/star support and winning with flexibility,
-6/7rax 0tank timing shot to the ultra-mobile two star SKterran,
-2 Fac power shot using tanks as central fighting pillars,
-"A MAN'S ESSENCE IS POWER" 5rax No vessel 3 tank chew up everything including swarm management.

1. 6rax 1fac 1star
- A brach recommended for those with great macro and good basic MMVessel control.
A not so small amount of mnm, a not so small amt of tank, and a not so small amt of vessels combine to make a large and effective force.
-Key point is the vessel and tanks must survive.
Support SVs thru mnm, Tanks with D matrix, Support your mnm by Irrad guard/defiler. It's also flexible enough to adopt to anything zerg does. However, only with high level of technical backing can you effectively play and win. Rather than irradiating lurks, save tanks with D or snipe guard/defilers instead. You have tanks and upgraded mnm for -_-;; lurkers.

This is a very tricky/difficult management for zerg to answer to but a difficult one to execute as well.

2. After hantiming, 8rax 2star, SKTerran.
This too is a high level terran management. Using well upgraded MM action and mass SV, try to starve the zerg and constantly hit and run to carve up the zerg. It is the most mobile management. However, the mechanics required behind this, especially since it becomes a war of attrition.. is... -_-;;

-Ling Lurker Defiler/Guardian using zergs get raped. Snipe defilers, pull away from it's dying dark swarm, o, there's the end of that fight! You don't have to save tanks or anything. It's mobility is chief. Seriously, chief. Irradiate away~

-And then for MMVes vs Hydra lurker, the flying swarms, and the plague, the swarm you can move out of the fight, but the plague is truly.. durrr scary. The marine one-shotting hydras, the vessel clumps being plagued and one shotted. Plague is a serious threat to mm. You could get easily get pushed to your main this way. This is the rat poison to SK.

3. After hantiming, 2fact 6rax Mass Tank and Vessel as detector
This strat can end games the fastest, but you will cut yourself if you fail. If the villian seems to be going Greater Spire, stopping tanks and start SVs. You can re-up tank production anytime since there are 2fact. The choice for vessel over wraiths is because the wraith cannot support the main force after the guardians are neutralized. getting a vessel before its too late is recommended.

-Many tanks, Many MM, Some SVs.... are used to grab a line and fight from there.
If you are lucky you can even snipe defilers casting swarm, splash damage the swarm considerably and then win the fight. Point is scouting. Scan a lot and when your senses tingle guardian, get SVs. It has enough power to fight with dark swarmed lurkerling or Hydralurk.

-Using good tank placement, make a strong center line. With a good center line, it is possible to expo at same time the zerg does.

It is recommended for those with spider senses for guardian timing.

4. A MAN'S ESSENCE IS POWER, 3FACT... 5RAX!!! and a starport for good form.
After hantiming attack, if you see 2/3 chamber and he succeeded his 3 gas hold, is a filthy fat stinkin rich zerg and looks to be wanting to power through, or if you still haven't seen a spire yet... use this! THE ESSENCE OF MAN.

After hanta attack and proper analysis, get 5rax, shut down the starport and get 3 facts asap. Tanks will gather at an astronomical rate. Level things, move on.

When using this and you run into ground-only zerg, you will literally melt them. About 3 groups of mnm and 2 groups of tanks will melt everything. Every time the tanks fire, it is equivalent of 2 nukes falling at once. It just chews up dark swarm. Vessels aren't needed and 2 scans are plenty. Is it because the lurkers disappear trying to go underground?
Super Marines spray fields of bullets and lure the zerg in, then the tanks clear everything. It's a surprising attack to be victim of.

If the villain can mass air units, matters become complicated.

If guardians are about to take to the skies, right under the idle starport, make 1-2 more and stop tanks to produce wraiths. Since we didn't get vessel, you should have about 1.5 groups of tanks ya?
***Grab a location somewhere and linger around and then try to catch them with wraiths. With 2 fact, vessels show immediate results but this is different since we already have 2 groups of tanks...

If the wraiths couldn't get all the guardians..

You gotta rely on the super marines. Since units are already towards the center, the zerg won't hit until the tanks are cleared. Gather wraiths til you can kill guards in 2 salvos, and hold with marines til. Since the guards are no up, marines can take 3-4 hits depending on heal. It is truly the essence of man, a 3/4gas zerg will charge with hydralurk and ultras...
And conflict will last 15 seconds. Just 15 seconds. It will resolve itself in 15 seconds.
For a zerg intent on such macro, 3 fact is the way to go.
Esssence of Man.

And... ... for the zerg management not mentioned here, may you solve those on your own -_-;;

Super Marines -_-;; fuck yeah, I went there.

- The End -


Written 2006 8 15.


Have a nice day.
If you wanna discuss - go ahead.
Yes, plz do.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
January 26 2009 19:53 GMT
#2
wow, really nice
reminds me how much i miss tank heavy tvz, it's so satisfying

soyu you rock!
Moderatorhttps://soundcloud.com/castlesmusic/sets/oak
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
January 26 2009 19:55 GMT
#3
On January 27 2009 04:53 intrigue wrote:
wow, really nice
reminds me how much i miss tank heavy tvz, it's so satisfying

soyu you rock!

Why isn't tank heavy tvz used no more? Is it because of the fast hive zergs? -___-
axel
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
France385 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-26 20:28:32
January 26 2009 20:25 GMT
#4


I dont understand some points :


How can you afford som much gas ( stim dual upgrades "factory ASAP" ) and money that early considering at this moment muta can come or are going to come and you dont have turets yet and u only pumped marines from 1 rax ? Or u wont have enough gas with 1 gas and you will have to build your second which means really bad timing for turets ? or you build turets and more marines but you will have hardly just enough gas for an upgrade + stim + range and no factory?
Overall i mean this build will be a lot in trouble vs a good muta harass and then that 1-1 early ups are not a good buisness anymore.
Also going one 1 rax that late is very risky , your build is based on like if things goes perfectly well , no cheese, no mass zerglin all in , no zergling harrass. I mean in most of tvz games a good zerg always tries to preasure you with lings and i think it s very hard to manage a so complex build .

Well i will have to try it but my feeling is that it wont work vs the vicious cheesy zergs i play on iccup.



randombum
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2378 Posts
January 26 2009 20:27 GMT
#5
Just a quick question, why is the second supply at 11/18? with scv cutting at 15 I'm pretty sure a little later supply (14/15?) would still give you constant production.
randombum
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2378 Posts
January 26 2009 20:33 GMT
#6
On January 27 2009 05:25 axel wrote:


I dont understand some points :


How can you afford som much gas ( stim dual upgrades "factory ASAP" ) and money that early considering at this moment muta can come or are going to come and you dont have turets yet and u only pumped marines from 1 rax ? Or u wont have enough gas with 1 gas and you will have to build your second which means really bad timing for turets ? or you build turets and more marines but you will have hardly just enough gas for an upgrade + stim + range and no factory?
Overall i mean this build will be a lot in trouble vs a good muta harass and then that 1-1 early ups are not a good buisness anymore.
Also going one 1 rax that late is very risky , your build is based on like if things goes perfectly well , no cheese, no mass zerglin all in , no zergling harrass. I mean in most of tvz games a good zerg always tries to preasure you with lings and i think it s very hard to manage a so complex build .

Well i will have to try it but my feeling is that it wont work vs the vicious cheesy zergs i play on iccup.





With gas at 15 you'll have a lot of gas for duel upgrades. And you will have the minerals for it because as you are questioning, it only is 1 rax until both upgrades haves started according to this build.

And yea pretty much any cheese will screw this build up, but this build seems tailored to give the best upgrades/econ vs 3 hatch muta. Since the timing works out that your turrets will just finish in time to stop mutas, although your ball will be small until the 2/3rd rax finish.

Also this is in 2006, so mutas control back then wasn't as good.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
January 26 2009 21:55 GMT
#7
On January 27 2009 04:55 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2009 04:53 intrigue wrote:
wow, really nice
reminds me how much i miss tank heavy tvz, it's so satisfying

soyu you rock!

Why isn't tank heavy tvz used no more? Is it because of the fast hive zergs? -___-
It's less mobile
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
[Fin]Vittu
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada507 Posts
January 26 2009 22:22 GMT
#8
what does it mean when it tells me to make dual ebays @ 200/150

o_o
The "Finnish Metal Terran"
Dr.Dragoon
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1241 Posts
January 26 2009 22:24 GMT
#9
On January 27 2009 07:22 [Fin]Vittu wrote:
what does it mean when it tells me to make dual ebays @ 200/150

o_o

get 2 scvs ready to make 2 ebays at 200 minerals, 150 gas
~o~ I have returned
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11291 Posts
January 26 2009 22:25 GMT
#10
On January 27 2009 07:22 [Fin]Vittu wrote:
what does it mean when it tells me to make dual ebays @ 200/150

o_o

With resource count of 200 / 150, I suppose the interesting part is the gas, as it will allow you (so I would expect) to start your dual upgrades RIGHT when the ebays finish.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
yubee
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States3826 Posts
January 26 2009 22:26 GMT
#11
thanks soyu, you're totally awesome!
Proposal
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1310 Posts
January 26 2009 22:39 GMT
#12
awesome article, thanks for translating it for us
JokerSan
Profile Joined April 2005
United States306 Posts
January 26 2009 22:54 GMT
#13
11 supply makes no sense. typo?
LoL: Soles | forever 1600
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-26 23:01:09
January 26 2009 22:57 GMT
#14
It means you make another supply at 11 population, or right after you start your first barracks, which is kinda useless, id do it at 14 or 15, since you dont need it any sooner.

The special forces sound cute but its really really hard to hide marines at any point of the game.

The second ebay will delay the factory a bit, which can be dangerous vs hive rushes.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
himurakenshin
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Canada1845 Posts
January 26 2009 23:06 GMT
#15
could you please translate a guide for TvP, or PvT too?

Thanks so much, great post
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 26 2009 23:12 GMT
#16
Stop telling people how to kill zergs.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
January 26 2009 23:35 GMT
#17
thread title has a typo
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-27 00:06:48
January 27 2009 00:00 GMT
#18
wtf...15 gas?.. nvm...

this build freaking nice lmfao.
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
January 27 2009 00:31 GMT
#19
Your mom has a typo chalz.
I've tried the build myself a few times, the money things work fine.
I did lose to a few mass lings but really, I played it quite poorly.

And I dunno much about TvZ, cept it's too hard for terran
So I decided to help with as much forbidden knowledge as possible.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
January 27 2009 01:27 GMT
#20
On January 27 2009 07:57 Cloud wrote:
It means you make another supply at 11 population, or right after you start your first barracks, which is kinda useless, id do it at 14 or 15, since you dont need it any sooner.

The special forces sound cute but its really really hard to hide marines at any point of the game.

The second ebay will delay the factory a bit, which can be dangerous vs hive rushes.


Second suply is for wall in .... at the ebay coment yes it delays fact a bit but you have super marines for that ^^
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
NyLuM
Profile Joined January 2009
United States2 Posts
January 27 2009 01:31 GMT
#21
Really nice guide, I'm definitely going to practice this. I already used it verse my friend and steam rolled him with the mass tanks strat.
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
January 27 2009 03:50 GMT
#22
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
January 27 2009 04:01 GMT
#23
On January 27 2009 12:50 GhostKorean wrote:
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???


you have no problem if the lurker is above ground! XD
Writer
dragonmax
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States131 Posts
January 27 2009 04:05 GMT
#24
stim and spread out as much as possible with medics and firebats too
or if your really gosu have 3 marines walk perfectly in a circle around lurker dodging spines and shooting

ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
January 27 2009 04:05 GMT
#25
On January 27 2009 12:50 GhostKorean wrote:
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???


spread them.
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
randombum
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2378 Posts
January 27 2009 04:18 GMT
#26
A Merine cannot kill lurkers, nor can a merine be killed by lurkers. In fact merines do not exist in the game of starcraft.

So no amount of spreading of a merine will help it kill a lurker.
alphafuzard
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1610 Posts
January 27 2009 04:45 GMT
#27
I don't understand why the second supply is at 11 in the build order.
It seems like 13 or 14 would minimize the time your cc spends idle.

Anyways, nice translation, hopefully I can add this to my arsenal of builds.
more weight
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
January 27 2009 04:59 GMT
#28
the timing is nice, but i don't like that BO he gives us
im deaf
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
January 27 2009 05:02 GMT
#29
By the way that was a serious question. My micro sucks monkey balls and I'm thinking of playing mech only just because of my poor control
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
January 27 2009 05:31 GMT
#30
On January 27 2009 12:50 GhostKorean wrote:
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???

[image loading]
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
January 27 2009 05:40 GMT
#31
Disclaimer: C- Terran oppinions incoming. You're free to disregard if you want to.

You could try an UMS to improve, the first level of this is decent: [url blocked]

Ofcourse real Zergs will have better control and will be better to train against. To defeat lurker-link you'll generally want to dispose of the lings first of possible. This is why you move towards your opponents base when you figure out he's going for lurks. You want to shoot down as many lings as possible, and move back when his lurkers start burrowing. Then repeat that until he's more or less out of lings. Then on to the lurkers, you want to have a decent spread as in the picture in Caller's response. Then pick just a couple of marines, 2-3, whatever you can grab onto quickly, stim them if they aren't, and move behind the lurkers to draw fire. Alternatively D-matrix one of these. It's pretty hard but an important part of TvZ none the less. Also, +1 armor helps a TON, I know it's in the guide but just a general tip.
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
January 27 2009 05:57 GMT
#32
On January 27 2009 14:31 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2009 12:50 GhostKorean wrote:
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???

[image loading]




lol nice
Nitrogen
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States5345 Posts
January 27 2009 06:12 GMT
#33
On January 27 2009 14:31 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2009 12:50 GhostKorean wrote:
This is all good stuff but how do I kill lurker with merine???

[image loading]


this image needs to be updated, his name is no longer H_, he got it changed to H
UNFUCK YOURSELF
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