[Q] Archons Instead of Templar - Page 3

On December 05 2008 13:06 Archaic wrote:
This also ignores how archons do *30* damage, and 39 with upgrades! Then they have splash, move fairly quickly, are almost completely *un*affected by plague, and can attack both air and ground. They rape lings better than anything, and ultras get eaten by them with the massive damage and fast attack rate. Bottom line, archons own, and are often worth it.

With the templar, you can't always get 20 storms off. Normally, you'll get around 5-6. Thus, 3-4 templar is fine, while the rest go to archons. Remember, a huge army of archons is almost unstoppable.

On December 05 2008 11:19 AttackZerg wrote:
I'm just going to reiterate a few of the points that were correctly made in this thread.

1. archons deal impressive damage AND are meat shields.
2. Vs 5 hat scourge -> hydra/lurker 2 archons + zealots can mow down a huge base with 2-3 lurkers + 1 sunken very easily, this preasure causes alot of zergs to overproduce hydras which makes for slow lair/grades/4th base.
(Edit; this is my theoretical opinion of superior strategy against 5 hat scourge first play, number 2 isn't definative and is based on my study/understanding of ZvP at the b- level and the pro gaming, PvZ trends of recent times.)
3. a Timming archon/zealot moveout is a counter to macro zerg.
4. Archons protect templar and zealots while templar can only do so much.

I think early-midgame archons are very very strong instead of early temps.

On December 05 2008 16:09 evanthebouncy! wrote:
In small numbers archon superior
In large numbers templar superior.
Try some micro map, see for yourself. Especially you have early +1 which makes archon deadly.

On December 05 2008 02:58 Aurious wrote:
Now I am by no means a bad Protoss nor am I a great Protoss. But lately I find myself watching a lot of PvZ and notice Archons more frequently before the Templar throw out a storm. Bisu does this quite frequently, but why?

Now I realize that in the game vs yarnc recently that he uses a goon/templar/archon build closer to the end and it worked quite well. Many call this the NonY build but meh. Goons>Hydras(with support) Archons>lings Goons>Lurks. Okay so we got that down.

What i'm trying to figure out is WHY he made the archons instead of adding a few zeals throw the storms and make the Archons than.

Possible Reason #1. So far ahead doesn't matter
Possible Reason #2. He knew zerglings were on the way but storm eats them like cake anyways. Instead of Zeals he wanted a bigger meatshield?

This just baffles my mind. I can think of quite a few reasons why just not one that I think is the most logical because of their cost. Any thoughts?

On December 08 2008 10:01 FabledIntegral wrote:
It's not just vs mutas as everyone keeps saying. You can't just throw down storms then combine them simply because your zealots are then fighting alone in terms of melee whilst the archons are morphing. Once the archons are done morphing, then they are by themselves, and will get torn apart. You need the archons already morphed when going into battle, I recommend unless they go mass hydra, only keeping 2-3 templar not combined and immediately combining every other high templar you produce into an archon. If the opponent does go mass hydra, then it varies, and archons aren't so great anymore and you'd want to keep the high temp you produce obviously.

Especially vs ultras when it comes to the later games, 3/3 crackings tear apart zeals, but an archon with +3 attack upgrade *one-hits* a 3/3 crackling. That's HUGE. The cracklings start dying before they even can get to your archon/zeal combo, and it nearly forces zerg to get defilers if you can manage to get a decent amount of archons. One game I played on Andro, I was able to cut off all my enemy's gas and he was going mainly ultraling. He could only afford lings at the end of the game, he had already lost but didn't gg and kept playing for a little bit longer. Went into his base with like 5 archons + 6 zealots, and he had 5 hatch pumping out 3/3 cracklings. I looked at my archons and they had 15-20 kills a piece and still had around 100 shields when the archons killed the hatches.

On December 09 2008 06:09 FabledIntegral wrote:
All you said was you notice that archons are made before templar throw out a storm. I wasn't aware that meant only early-mid game. That can be in any situation, and you even used "archons" as plural, and generally only 1 is made, possibly two, but you just used the plural form. What was I supposed to assume...

I say give me a break^ I just started posting on TL.

On December 06 2008 13:06 Aurious wrote:
Well, the number of zeals will vary.

But things will be like xZeals, 2-3Archons, +1weapon, Zeal speed correct?

Also if you can't do damage used to pressure the zerg into wasting larvae. Am I correct in this analyse?