EPT
Jaedong cancels his 5th drone, which implies his 4-pool was a spur-of-the-moment thing. I thought at this level of game play, these players already have their builds prepared, timed, and practiced ahead of time.Why build a drone then cancel it?
[Q, spoiler] MSL jaedong vs hwasin game 3
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
magusmind
50 Posts
Jaedong cancels his 5th drone, which implies his 4-pool was a spur-of-the-moment thing. I thought at this level of game play, these players already have their builds prepared, timed, and practiced ahead of time.Why build a drone then cancel it? | ||
|
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On June 29 2008 06:55 magusmind wrote: In game 3, Jaedong cancels his 5th drone, which implies his 4-pool was a spur-of-the-moment thing. I thought at this level of game play, these players already have their builds prepared, timed, and practiced ahead of time.Why build a drone then cancel it? Why not? | ||
|
29 fps
United States5724 Posts
| ||
|
trollbone
France1905 Posts
| ||
Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
*EDIT* it was chojja also these guys have their split and hitting S,D down to muscle memory at this point and its probable he might have just done his robotic split opening then deleted his 1st drone to do the 4 pool that he practiced. assuming that he really did it spur-of-the-moment which i think is unlikely, it was still a smart reaction to the way hwasin had played in the first games with his super greedy delayed barracks. things like that keep him honest and also break his confidence | ||
|
Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
| ||
|
allowicious
United States972 Posts
On June 29 2008 07:01 Atrioc wrote: no i heard in an interview from someone who did the same thing in a different 4 pool game (i think it was luxury?) that it is just a excitment thing for the fans. deleting your 1st drone egg doest impact or hurt the 4 pool at all but its like a signal to the crowd that "im gonna 4 pool" also these guys have their split and hitting S,D down to muscle memory at this point and its probable he might have just done his robotic split opening then deleted his 1st drone to do the 4 pool that he practiced. assuming that he really did it spur-of-the-moment which i think is unlikely, it was still a smart reaction to the way hwasin had played in the first games with his super greedy delayed barracks. things like that keep him honest and also break his confidence I think that's the most probable cause. It just becomes a habit of making that first worker whenever your nexus/cc/hatchery comes up on screen. | ||
|
Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
| ||
|
Ryshi
Canada361 Posts
| ||
|
Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
i absolutely 100% always build my first drone and then cancel if i'm 4pooling. i can't NOT do it. my hands are too used to it :[ | ||
|
Vasoline73
United States7802 Posts
| ||
|
ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
1) Jaedong always intended to 4pool, but it was his brain misfiring a few signals and he accidentally added a fifth drone. 2) Jaedong was not focusing properly and decided to risk a 4 pool, to see if he could throw Hwasin off and crush him in the future. Kind of a mental battle. | ||
|
Raithed
China7078 Posts
| ||
|
ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
What a sad story  | ||
|
LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
| ||
|
Polemarch
Canada1564 Posts
| ||
|
EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
On June 29 2008 09:03 Raithed wrote: jd is a baller. | ||
|
illeszt
United States350 Posts
On June 29 2008 11:28 Polemarch wrote: Somebody suggested in the other thread that he did it to improve the timing of when the larva for his 4th pair of zerglings would arrive. Somebody want to test it out? Yea I read about this in the match thread, someone said they tested it out and it worked, but I'm still highly doubtful of it. | ||
|
tracer
Korea (South)693 Posts
On June 29 2008 11:32 illeszt wrote: Yea I read about this in the match thread, someone said they tested it out and it worked, but I'm still highly doubtful of it. Impossible. The third larva would pop out FAR before the spawning pool is ever finished, making it exactly the same as if you had never canceled the egg. Whether you cancel or not, you would still have 3 idle larva when the spawning pool is done. The fourth larva would come at the same time. | ||
|
Presony-Boy
Israel812 Posts
so i think that it was just like a reflex or something  | ||
|
Flopgun
Germany274 Posts
€: Yeah i watched the vod again and exactly this happens. Omg jaedong is sooo gosu =) | ||
|
XCetron
5226 Posts
| ||
|
Jathin
United States3505 Posts
| ||
|
Vasoline73
United States7802 Posts
On June 29 2008 23:38 Jathin wrote: To my understanding, there is no difference in timing between 4pool and 5pool. Chojja did it in a game as a form of showmanship, to tell his fans he is 4pooling. Jaedong did the same. This has been gone over alot before on teamliquid. 4pool is about 5-6 seconds faster but leaves you with no economy while 5pool is slower but you *might* be able to catch up if you fail the rush | ||
|
theonemephisto
United States409 Posts
On June 29 2008 17:36 tracer wrote: Impossible. The third larva would pop out FAR before the spawning pool is ever finished, making it exactly the same as if you had never canceled the egg. Whether you cancel or not, you would still have 3 idle larva when the spawning pool is done. The fourth larva would come at the same time. How exactly does larva timing work? Is it based on a constant timer or does the timer reset when you have 3 full larva and then use one? Do we actually know how larva timing works well enough that we can say for certain what happens? | ||
|
NovaTheFeared
United States7224 Posts
There's also way more than a larva's spawn time between canceling the larva and gathering 150 minerals with 4 drones. EDIT: I made this test rep to show non-zerg players Link | ||
|
Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
| ||
|
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6637 Posts
| ||
|
Polemarch
Canada1564 Posts
On June 29 2008 23:11 Flopgun wrote: Maybe its the position of the new larva? In the beginning all larvae are under the hatch, but a new spawned larva will be at the right, nearer to the choke and to the enemy. €: Yeah i watched the vod again and exactly this happens. Omg jaedong is sooo gosu =) Oh good call! edit: The true sign that Jaedong practised 4-pool too much would be if he normally builds a drone then splits; but if that time he splits and then builds a drone to cancel. Doing the split first would save maybe 0.2 seconds or something, haha. | ||
|
Fantabulous[Fab]
United States21 Posts
| ||
|
Varian
Korea (South)17 Posts
| ||
|
Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
| ||
|
Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
On June 29 2008 07:08 Superiorwolf wrote: Lmao, imo if Hwasin just pulled most of his SCVS to block his ramp he coulda easily survived -_- even if he did lose many SCVs, a 4 pool gives you like 0 economy. He's pro at 4-5 pooling. I saw him do it vs yosh. | ||
|
zobz
Canada2175 Posts
| ||
|
Archaic
United States4024 Posts
| ||
|
Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
On June 30 2008 09:32 zobz wrote: 80% reposts of the same points, yet rearticulated the same points rearticulated in 80% of posts | ||
|
Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
I am going to alert the Department of Redundancy Department! I think the next time a progamer 4 pools he shouldn't cancel the egg, because I've seen two other pro games where this has happened. Also, I have never been 4 pooled O_O | ||
|
Goosey
United States695 Posts
On June 30 2008 04:15 Varian wrote: all of this over one drone amazing ;'] LOL my thoughts exactly. I love how elaborate everyone's theories are as well. Showmanship or Muscle Memory seems like the most likely to me; I am going with Muscle Memory. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:49 Polemarch wrote: Oh good call! edit: The true sign that Jaedong practised 4-pool too much would be if he normally builds a drone then splits; but if that time he splits and then builds a drone to cancel. Doing the split first would save maybe 0.2 seconds or something, haha. It's impossible to tell if he splits or makes the drone first from the VOD, by the time they show his base he's already got four drones heading towards minerals and the one egg going. If we saw him split his drones before morphing the egg, that might be some support for the "he wanted to move the larva to the right" theory. Also, what governs larvae spawning location? Are you sure the one that replaces the initial below-hatch one he used to make the 5th drone always comes out to the right of the hatch? In any case, it seems really unlikely to me that JD did this as a spur-of-the moment thing. It was on Athena, and as he was feeling pretty comfortable tied at 1-1 I think he thought he would rather cheese than play on a map he may not have prepared for? That or he didn't think Athena would favor Zerg or his playstyle? I don't know...does anyone have any idea of what Athena's ZvT balance is like? | ||
| ||
