! [G] Walling - Page 2

On June 15 2008 01:44 imBLIND wrote:


I would rather use a wall with a rax and ebay than one with depots after i FE. If you look at pros when they wall in at the beginning, they rarely wall in at the nat choke because it puts you slightly more behind, and if they go 2gate goon range, they will kill the wall before 3 scvs can come repair it. All they have to do is save 4-6 goons and attack one depot.

On June 14 2008 17:50 axel wrote:
the first python wall DOES NOT WALL if u move a zealot at the left of the depot, still nice walls.

On June 14 2008 22:22 quirinus wrote:
the pic for tau at 6 pos i wrong.

good job! this really helps! :D

On June 15 2008 05:07 imBLIND wrote:
Sending scvs there wastes a lot of money. You got travel time, the time they arent mining, and the chance that 2-3 of them will be killed. That makes you lose the money you made from skipping the marines. The time wasted traveling makes you lose even more money, which is probably between 30-80 minerals. If you just put the wall in the choke and not the nat choke, you only waste about 30-50 minerals per scv, and you still retain an advantage from skipping the marines.

If you put the wall in the choke, then you waste less time and you retain more of your advantage from skipping the marines. If you spend more time and you send more scvs for a longer period of time, you are negating your advantage and making the weakness of the build more exploitable. I can understand "o i just have to make 1 wall and it will cover both early and mid game", but it damages your economy just because scvs have to go to and fro from one place to another.
This is like the same reason why zergs like skipping sunken colonies, because every worker is important to economical success. The longer they are mining, the better.

On June 15 2008 07:06 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote:
can zealots fit thru the nat at 9 o clock nat for python? there's 1 spot that looks awfully large where a zealot can get in.
edit: what do i do on some positions where the marines will spawn outside of the wall? mostly when the zealot arrives and your marine just popped and you can lift because you will let the zealot in. so now you will have a zealot attacking the wall with Goons comming soon and virtually no marines to kill the zealot. help?
P.S. LOL@The link at the end of the op!! haha

On June 14 2008 14:12 h4xh4xh4x wrote:
When would it be most benificial to wall in a nat?

On June 15 2008 05:59 XMShake wrote:


You have a point, however we are not playing zerg, we are playing Terran. You don't seem take into consideration that the Protoss' natural will come much later than your own, and if he does make an early nexus, his goon harass will come too late to do any damage.

Have you even tried to wall do this more than once before you gave up and decided it was an ineffective strategy? I don't see why you're trying so hard to shoot it down when its completely viable. A Protoss player will not just keep eating tank shots trying to kill your depot. If you're losing your first tank, then thats why this wont work for you. So you lose 2-3 scvs; How much faster is your 2nd command center? Fast enough to make up for the lost mining time and dead scvs? Yes.

It's kinda sad to see people being so negative to something new because they don't know how to properly utilize the strategy.

On June 15 2008 12:39 imBLIND wrote:


Ok. What i am saying is that you wall at your normal choke. Build the cc inside and lift it off to the nat while making tanks and seige upgrading. When cc is done, then you make a 2nd wall with ebay and rax and, if nessacary, depots. Just to make things clear.

This might work on stupid toss that do a build that is too balanced to make any major difference, but vs C lv players, walling in at your nat choke first will be more troublesome than you think.

Walling at your nat choke gives you:
-advantages and disadvantages of a normal wall-in that you mentioned
-2 walls for the price of 1
-protects nat
-the timing for repairing a wall at your nat is off by about 2-3 seconds, which is more than enough time for an extra 80-160 dmg from goons, which means that your depot could die in those two seconds.

-the timing will fuck up BO. The only reason you dont see this is because you are making up for it by not building many marines. This advantage is then negated by repairing the wall when the goons come and extenuated by the huge travel distance and is multiplied by the # of scvs that you send back and forth. This timing that i am talking about is not early game BO, but rather the mid game BO. This is rather crucial when you mass facs in particular. Here, you must decide whether to put ur self behind even more for a proper fac timing or catch up in econ while you delay your facs. Either way, the toss will see this and react accordingly.

-It limits your mobility until you get your 3rd running. Its really annoying to push out because the wall basically funnels your units and it requires a lot of micro just to get them in the right position. This might hinder people that cant multitask.

Advantages of making two walls
-Inherent advantages and disadvantages you mentioned
-the cost is trivial because you are going to get depots and an ebay anyways, and you can just lift your rax to the 2nd wall.
-if you wall with rax and ebay only, then you can lift them and regain much needed mobility. This wall doesnt have to be perfect because the sole purpose of this wall is to prevent goons from rushing in when you have 3-5 tanks behind it.
-First wall gives a more of an economical advantage by being closer to the base than a nat wall. Also, the timing where the goons start attacking is perfect. The depot will not die before you send 3 scvs to repair it.
-Econ advantages by skipping marines are partially maintained
-Overall BO will be faster than if u walled in at nat
-2nd wall might be slower if you did not pre-set it before your tanks moved out.
-All advantages of making just 1 nat wall is inherent in making two walls. The disadvantages of making 1 nat wall are mostly gone when you make two walls.

And also
A. Toss nexuses are up and running jsut as fast as cc's are.
B. SCVs are just as important as Drones and Probes. Even losing a few puts you behind 200-400 minerals. The more they are on the move, the more minerals that arent being mined.
C. Im not being negative towards this: im saying you should be safe and play on economy rather than chance. Have i said that making a nat wall is stupid? I said that you should make it as a 2nd wall, not your primary wall to keep the toss out.
D. Look at pro and semi-pro replays. When you them wall, 95% of the time they are not walling at their nat choke, but their normal choke instead. Why? Its easier to defend and it doesnt fuck your econ as much. Then if you want, you can make cc at nat and use mines to keep toss out while making a second wall.