Ahh walling. The most classic of all Terran artforms, the barrier protecting a handful of marines and whatever else you may be planning behind it from just about everything that uses the ground to move. Although the recent innovations in TvZ have caused some to take a second look at the art, still, many masses of uninformed Terran players remain, simply unaware of the raw power and beauty that constitutes a perfectly crafted Terran wall, and as a result, the walling technique still goes drastically underused.
The purpose of this guide is to encourage the usage of walling by Terran players through education and demonstration via images of premade walls.
To you Zerg and Protoss fellows, fuck you you can utilize this guide as well, using the knowledge it provides to punish a leaky wall whenever you see one.
In the main..
Pros- (Assuming the wall is built correctly)
Overall it limits your opponents scouting, thus keeping them guessing about what tech you have, thus resulting in a psychological advantage.
Makes defending vs zerglings and zealots a WHOLE lot easier, making fast expand builds with CC's built inside the main that much safer.
It may cause your opponent to react in a more certain way, either safer, resulting in an economic advantage for you, or more agressive.
Walling is basically free.
Cons-
May not be able to wall every map
Unit pathing while going down the ramp may suck (especially when transferring workers)
Need to pull scvs when under attack, resulting in economic loss.
Rarely has a purpose after early game / Fast DTs.
Tank vs Goons attacking wall is annoying as hell.
Scouting workers get in if scouted first / early.
During Muta harass, walls can get in the way / become targets for the mutas.
At the Natural..
Very Similar pros and cons to walling in the main, save for a few differences.
Pros-
Safer from attacks to the natural (obviously)
Compliments TvZ mech builds well.
Cons-
Greater distance, may not be able to repair in time from goons.
Not as useful in TvP and nearly useless in TvT
A large of maps are not able to wall correctly at the natural.
When to Wall
A couple basic rules, if it takes only 2 buildings, wall. If its a 4 player map, wall. Reasoning behind these rules are simple, it's very likely that your opponent will not be able to get his scout inside your base before your wall completes. This is a major advantage.
If you're facing a random player, wall, as in this case the defense it provides vs cheese is priceless.
When doing something cheesy / risky, wall. The off chance that stuff gets into your base and scouts your stuff can seriously screw up anything cute you had planned.
For everything else, it's up to you, but personally I always wall if I'm able to. Especially on ICCup, damn cheesers.
When to Wall.. At the Natural
In TvZ.. walling at the natural is a perfect compliment to any mech or fast expansion build, as you can use few to no marines to defend effectively vs zerglings.
In TvP.. There aren't many benefits to doing this early on, as its more likely to lose you the game vs goon pressure than help you win it. Furthermore, a perfectly sealed wall isn't that necessary for dealing with mid game attacks, when you can already form a "good enough" wall with a turret, engineering bay, barracks etc. If you're going to wall here in TvP, I'd say build it just before or during midgame to get the full benefit.
In TvT.. Nigh useless. Probably will actually hinder you in tank battles around your nat. Only use if your opponent only builds vultures or something.
Walling Tips
Lift your barracks and send it somewhere to scout or block your natural after Early / Midgame if you walled at your main. It's not going to be doing anything else just floating there.
If the natural is really close to your main, and even closer to your main entrance, it probably isn't a bad idea to wall at the natural if you can when compared to other maps.
If you feel goon pressure or cheese coming, hotkey a couple scvs in a group and location hotkey your wall for quick repairing.
Marines to spawn on the safe side and not be trapped.
Good unit pathfinding down ramp.
The ability to repair quickly and the ability to repair each building with multiple SCVs.
As little room for protoss Dragoons to stand as possible.
Marines to be able to walk through in Anti-Protoss walls.
Even surface on both supply depots so more zerglings can not attack one more than the other.
Testing If marines can walk through, zerglings can too. If SCVs can get through, so can zealots.
*Note: It has come to my attention that in some circumstances, even if a marine can not walk through a wall, a zergling may be able to. This is rare and from what I understand, only happens around terrain that uses square tiles next to where you build your building (such as the square tiles found in bounds). For complete accuracy, test with zerglings with walls up against square style terrain, but normal marine testing should work for everything else.
Acro Andromeda Asgard Athena Battle Royal Blood Bath Blue Storm Byzantium Carthage Chupung-Ryeong Colosseum Destination Fighting Spirit Gaia God's Garden Harmony Heartbreak Ridge Holy World Judgment Day Katrina Longinus Lost Temple Match Point Medusa Moon Glaive Othello Outsider Peaks of Baekdu Plasma Python Requiem Return of the King Roadrunner Rush Hour Shades of Twilight Tau Cross Tears of the Moon The Hunters / BGH Tornado Wuthering Heights Zodiac
Mains Carthage God's Garden Harmony 1'O Clock Judgment Day Luna Plasma 7'O Clock Tornado 1'O Clock
Naturals Battle Royal Byzantium Carthage Destination: All save for 1 Bridge @ 6'O Clock Fighting Spirit @ 5 & 11'O Clock Gaia God's Garden Accept for 1'O Clock Lost Temple 3'O Clock Luna 5'O Clock Neo Harmony 1'O Clock Peaks of Baekdu Python 12 & 3'O Clock Requiem Return of the King All accept 5'O Clock Rush Hour Tears of the Moon 1'O Clock Tornado 5 & 11'O Clock Zodiac
The followings walls are built upon the foundations laid down in section 2. I've organized each wall by Main / Natural, then player number, and finally map name in alphabetical order.
If you do not find specifically Zergling-Tight or Zealot-Tight walls for a certain position, you will have to adapt accordingly. Often times Z walls are suitable for TvP use, however marines may spawn on the wrong side, and are unable to pass freely through the wall. To adapt P walls for TvZ usage, simply plug the gaps with scvs as zerglings approach, and if possible, change the wall so that only 1 zergling passable opening exists. Note that this drastically reduces the effectiveness of a wall.
All images the work of myself, unless stated otherwise.
Wall Image Pack For those who don't want to load 100000 images every time they go into this thread, I've created a package that basically contains everything found in section 3, all in this handy zip file that can be found here. (Let me know if you guys want other mirrors, post which site you would like to see) http://www.mediafire.com/?qioyo2hzmmm It's about 86MB. This is out of date and contains errors, but should be mostly right, especially for the old maps
What YOU Can Do I am not perfect, and likely have made errors somewhere along the making of this guide. If you see any errors or anything that looks wrong, out of place, or something, please notify me via pm and I will fix it as soon as I possibly can.
On that note, it would also be helpful to know if any updates to a map render any of my walls useless, or if any of my walls don't work (Test it yourself, don't just say it looks wrong). Again, pm works best to contact me about these issues.
As I don't keep up with OSL / MSL / Proleague, I'll eventually be out of date with the current maps, or probably won't know of the new ones right away. If you want to see a map walled, new or old, post in this thread and I'll get around to it, eventually. Alternatively, create walls of your own, and I'll credit them to you, and add them with the rest of the pack.
Wow! Thanks for this guide, when offracing my walls are usually harmful to myself rather than helpful. This is like the Protoss FE guide :D Of course, Terran and Zerg aren't
Wow, very comprehensive guide. I know there have been guides like this before, but this was simple and straight forward. Whenever I end up playing T by accident, or just testing it out, I can't tell you how many times my walls have failed (gaps that tanks can fit through). Thanks for the pics and how to wall off the nat.
On June 14 2008 14:12 h4xh4xh4x wrote: When would it be most benificial to wall in a nat?
Whenever you would want to expand more safely than normal, or trick your opponent into thinking you're fast expanding, and then 2Fact him or something.
Walling in at the nat is more geared towards 1Fact Siege rather than FD, which is again doing something out of the ordinary and messing with your opponents comfort level because you're not limited to FD on open nats on maps without a cliff.
Furthermore this is really helpful if your opponent is set on doing some sort of 2 base timing push blindly into your nat. Getting out may be a bit rough but after you push out and secure a third, you should be rallying your facts past the wall anyways.
The pics are nice. Something that you should know: Nat walls are either really good or really bad. Vs smart players going 2gate goon range, They will save up enough goons to kill a depot before you can get scvs to repair it. The distance is too far for scvs to get to get there in time to repair it. You might be able to get a tank there, but i seriously doubt 1 tank and maybe siege will stop 4-6 goons from killing a depot and breaking in.
Also, All you really needed to say was that a. Dont build depots to the left or under a rax b. Depots build above or below each other are impassable c. Depots built to the sides of each other are passable to small fighting units. Workers cant get through. d. Depots can be built diagonally next to another depot and still be a wall.
On June 14 2008 15:13 imBLIND wrote: The pics are nice. Something that you should know: Nat walls are either really good or really bad. Vs smart players going 2gate goon range, They will save up enough goons to kill a depot before you can get scvs to repair it. The distance is too far for scvs to get to get there in time to repair it. You might be able to get a tank there, but i seriously doubt 1 tank and maybe siege will stop 4-6 goons from killing a depot and breaking in.
That's not true, you can always wall in after you FE, just lift your barracks or e bay.
When I started as a übernoob I ALWAYS walled (I played only at Lost Temple). Then later I started playing at Python and saw pros didn't wall there instead getting a more early factory than I usually did (against toss ofc) and 4-5 marines for wall.
On June 14 2008 15:13 imBLIND wrote: The pics are nice. Something that you should know: Nat walls are either really good or really bad. Vs smart players going 2gate goon range, They will save up enough goons to kill a depot before you can get scvs to repair it. The distance is too far for scvs to get to get there in time to repair it. You might be able to get a tank there, but i seriously doubt 1 tank and maybe siege will stop 4-6 goons from killing a depot and breaking in.
That's not true, you can always wall in after you FE, just lift your barracks or e bay.
Good guide, thanks!
I would rather use a wall with a rax and ebay than one with depots after i FE. If you look at pros when they wall in at the beginning, they rarely wall in at the nat choke because it puts you slightly more behind, and if they go 2gate goon range, they will kill the wall before 3 scvs can come repair it. All they have to do is save 4-6 goons and attack one depot.
On June 14 2008 15:13 imBLIND wrote: The pics are nice. Something that you should know: Nat walls are either really good or really bad. Vs smart players going 2gate goon range, They will save up enough goons to kill a depot before you can get scvs to repair it. The distance is too far for scvs to get to get there in time to repair it. You might be able to get a tank there, but i seriously doubt 1 tank and maybe siege will stop 4-6 goons from killing a depot and breaking in.
That's not true, you can always wall in after you FE, just lift your barracks or e bay.
Good guide, thanks!
I would rather use a wall with a rax and ebay than one with depots after i FE. If you look at pros when they wall in at the beginning, they rarely wall in at the nat choke because it puts you slightly more behind, and if they go 2gate goon range, they will kill the wall before 3 scvs can come repair it. All they have to do is save 4-6 goons and attack one depot.
Are you not scouting this or something? It should be fairly obvious when a protoss is going 2 gate range goon pressure. You should have 4-6 scvs hotkeyed and sending them to the wall before the goon even get there.
Even if they do break the wall, you have scvs there blocking the hole and it should be enough to hold the goons off. If your scvs start dieing, then send more, you will still be ahead economically because of the significantly faster command center. Not to mention the scvs you're using the defend can just maynard to the expo right away.
Sending scvs there wastes a lot of money. You got travel time, the time they arent mining, and the chance that 2-3 of them will be killed. That makes you lose the money you made from skipping the marines. The time wasted traveling makes you lose even more money, which is probably between 30-80 minerals. If you just put the wall in the choke and not the nat choke, you only waste about 30-50 minerals per scv, and you still retain an advantage from skipping the marines.
If you put the wall in the choke, then you waste less time and you retain more of your advantage from skipping the marines. If you spend more time and you send more scvs for a longer period of time, you are negating your advantage and making the weakness of the build more exploitable. I can understand "o i just have to make 1 wall and it will cover both early and mid game", but it damages your economy just because scvs have to go to and fro from one place to another. This is like the same reason why zergs like skipping sunken colonies, because every worker is important to economical success. The longer they are mining, the better.
Walling a nat against protoss is a bad idea until you have 2-3 sieged tanks there + a bunker.. Its just too easy to pick off depots with range goons. But later game its fucking annoying for toss because they cannot kill your nat if you wall it.
On June 15 2008 05:07 imBLIND wrote: Sending scvs there wastes a lot of money. You got travel time, the time they arent mining, and the chance that 2-3 of them will be killed. That makes you lose the money you made from skipping the marines. The time wasted traveling makes you lose even more money, which is probably between 30-80 minerals. If you just put the wall in the choke and not the nat choke, you only waste about 30-50 minerals per scv, and you still retain an advantage from skipping the marines.
If you put the wall in the choke, then you waste less time and you retain more of your advantage from skipping the marines. If you spend more time and you send more scvs for a longer period of time, you are negating your advantage and making the weakness of the build more exploitable. I can understand "o i just have to make 1 wall and it will cover both early and mid game", but it damages your economy just because scvs have to go to and fro from one place to another. This is like the same reason why zergs like skipping sunken colonies, because every worker is important to economical success. The longer they are mining, the better.
You have a point, however we are not playing zerg, we are playing Terran. You don't seem take into consideration that the Protoss' natural will come much later than your own, and if he does make an early nexus, his goon harass will come too late to do any damage.
Have you even tried to wall do this more than once before you gave up and decided it was an ineffective strategy? I don't see why you're trying so hard to shoot it down when its completely viable. A Protoss player will not just keep eating tank shots trying to kill your depot. If you're losing your first tank, then thats why this wont work for you. So you lose 2-3 scvs; How much faster is your 2nd command center? Fast enough to make up for the lost mining time and dead scvs? Yes.
It's kinda sad to see people being so negative to something new because they don't know how to properly utilize the strategy.
can zealots fit thru the nat at 9 o clock nat for python? there's 1 spot that looks awfully large where a zealot can get in. edit: what do i do on some positions where the marines will spawn outside of the wall? mostly when the zealot arrives and your marine just popped and you can lift because you will let the zealot in. so now you will have a zealot attacking the wall with Goons comming soon and virtually no marines to kill the zealot. help? P.S. LOL@The link at the end of the op!! haha
On June 15 2008 07:06 X.xDeMoNiCx.X wrote: can zealots fit thru the nat at 9 o clock nat for python? there's 1 spot that looks awfully large where a zealot can get in. edit: what do i do on some positions where the marines will spawn outside of the wall? mostly when the zealot arrives and your marine just popped and you can lift because you will let the zealot in. so now you will have a zealot attacking the wall with Goons comming soon and virtually no marines to kill the zealot. help? P.S. LOL@The link at the end of the op!! haha
You should have enough time to build 1 marine, and run him to the safe side of the wall if you can run through it. Otherwise should still have enough time to build 1 marine, and lift / land. If the zealot is coming before this, then you're either building your barracks or marine later than you should, or your splitting needs some work.
With your marine safely behind a wall, he SHOULD send his zealot away, and you can make more marines if you choose do so.
On June 15 2008 05:07 imBLIND wrote: Sending scvs there wastes a lot of money. You got travel time, the time they arent mining, and the chance that 2-3 of them will be killed. That makes you lose the money you made from skipping the marines. The time wasted traveling makes you lose even more money, which is probably between 30-80 minerals. If you just put the wall in the choke and not the nat choke, you only waste about 30-50 minerals per scv, and you still retain an advantage from skipping the marines.
If you put the wall in the choke, then you waste less time and you retain more of your advantage from skipping the marines. If you spend more time and you send more scvs for a longer period of time, you are negating your advantage and making the weakness of the build more exploitable. I can understand "o i just have to make 1 wall and it will cover both early and mid game", but it damages your economy just because scvs have to go to and fro from one place to another. This is like the same reason why zergs like skipping sunken colonies, because every worker is important to economical success. The longer they are mining, the better.
You have a point, however we are not playing zerg, we are playing Terran. You don't seem take into consideration that the Protoss' natural will come much later than your own, and if he does make an early nexus, his goon harass will come too late to do any damage.
Have you even tried to wall do this more than once before you gave up and decided it was an ineffective strategy? I don't see why you're trying so hard to shoot it down when its completely viable. A Protoss player will not just keep eating tank shots trying to kill your depot. If you're losing your first tank, then thats why this wont work for you. So you lose 2-3 scvs; How much faster is your 2nd command center? Fast enough to make up for the lost mining time and dead scvs? Yes.
It's kinda sad to see people being so negative to something new because they don't know how to properly utilize the strategy.
Ok. What i am saying is that you wall at your normal choke. Build the cc inside and lift it off to the nat while making tanks and seige upgrading. When cc is done, then you make a 2nd wall with ebay and rax and, if nessacary, depots. Just to make things clear.
This might work on stupid toss that do a build that is too balanced to make any major difference, but vs C lv players, walling in at your nat choke first will be more troublesome than you think.
Walling at your nat choke gives you: -advantages and disadvantages of a normal wall-in that you mentioned -2 walls for the price of 1 -protects nat -the timing for repairing a wall at your nat is off by about 2-3 seconds, which is more than enough time for an extra 80-160 dmg from goons, which means that your depot could die in those two seconds.
-the timing will fuck up BO. The only reason you dont see this is because you are making up for it by not building many marines. This advantage is then negated by repairing the wall when the goons come and extenuated by the huge travel distance and is multiplied by the # of scvs that you send back and forth. This timing that i am talking about is not early game BO, but rather the mid game BO. This is rather crucial when you mass facs in particular. Here, you must decide whether to put ur self behind even more for a proper fac timing or catch up in econ while you delay your facs. Either way, the toss will see this and react accordingly.
-It limits your mobility until you get your 3rd running. Its really annoying to push out because the wall basically funnels your units and it requires a lot of micro just to get them in the right position. This might hinder people that cant multitask.
Advantages of making two walls -Inherent advantages and disadvantages you mentioned -the cost is trivial because you are going to get depots and an ebay anyways, and you can just lift your rax to the 2nd wall. -if you wall with rax and ebay only, then you can lift them and regain much needed mobility. This wall doesnt have to be perfect because the sole purpose of this wall is to prevent goons from rushing in when you have 3-5 tanks behind it. -First wall gives a more of an economical advantage by being closer to the base than a nat wall. Also, the timing where the goons start attacking is perfect. The depot will not die before you send 3 scvs to repair it. -Econ advantages by skipping marines are partially maintained -Overall BO will be faster than if u walled in at nat -2nd wall might be slower if you did not pre-set it before your tanks moved out. -All advantages of making just 1 nat wall is inherent in making two walls. The disadvantages of making 1 nat wall are mostly gone when you make two walls.
And also A. Toss nexuses are up and running jsut as fast as cc's are. B. SCVs are just as important as Drones and Probes. Even losing a few puts you behind 200-400 minerals. The more they are on the move, the more minerals that arent being mined. C. Im not being negative towards this: im saying you should be safe and play on economy rather than chance. Have i said that making a nat wall is stupid? I said that you should make it as a 2nd wall, not your primary wall to keep the toss out. D. Look at pro and semi-pro replays. When you them wall, 95% of the time they are not walling at their nat choke, but their normal choke instead. Why? Its easier to defend and it doesnt fuck your econ as much. Then if you want, you can make cc at nat and use mines to keep toss out while making a second wall.
On June 15 2008 05:07 imBLIND wrote: Sending scvs there wastes a lot of money. You got travel time, the time they arent mining, and the chance that 2-3 of them will be killed. That makes you lose the money you made from skipping the marines. The time wasted traveling makes you lose even more money, which is probably between 30-80 minerals. If you just put the wall in the choke and not the nat choke, you only waste about 30-50 minerals per scv, and you still retain an advantage from skipping the marines.
If you put the wall in the choke, then you waste less time and you retain more of your advantage from skipping the marines. If you spend more time and you send more scvs for a longer period of time, you are negating your advantage and making the weakness of the build more exploitable. I can understand "o i just have to make 1 wall and it will cover both early and mid game", but it damages your economy just because scvs have to go to and fro from one place to another. This is like the same reason why zergs like skipping sunken colonies, because every worker is important to economical success. The longer they are mining, the better.
You have a point, however we are not playing zerg, we are playing Terran. You don't seem take into consideration that the Protoss' natural will come much later than your own, and if he does make an early nexus, his goon harass will come too late to do any damage.
Have you even tried to wall do this more than once before you gave up and decided it was an ineffective strategy? I don't see why you're trying so hard to shoot it down when its completely viable. A Protoss player will not just keep eating tank shots trying to kill your depot. If you're losing your first tank, then thats why this wont work for you. So you lose 2-3 scvs; How much faster is your 2nd command center? Fast enough to make up for the lost mining time and dead scvs? Yes.
It's kinda sad to see people being so negative to something new because they don't know how to properly utilize the strategy.
Ok. What i am saying is that you wall at your normal choke. Build the cc inside and lift it off to the nat while making tanks and seige upgrading. When cc is done, then you make a 2nd wall with ebay and rax and, if nessacary, depots. Just to make things clear.
This might work on stupid toss that do a build that is too balanced to make any major difference, but vs C lv players, walling in at your nat choke first will be more troublesome than you think.
Walling at your nat choke gives you: -advantages and disadvantages of a normal wall-in that you mentioned -2 walls for the price of 1 -protects nat -the timing for repairing a wall at your nat is off by about 2-3 seconds, which is more than enough time for an extra 80-160 dmg from goons, which means that your depot could die in those two seconds.
-the timing will fuck up BO. The only reason you dont see this is because you are making up for it by not building many marines. This advantage is then negated by repairing the wall when the goons come and extenuated by the huge travel distance and is multiplied by the # of scvs that you send back and forth. This timing that i am talking about is not early game BO, but rather the mid game BO. This is rather crucial when you mass facs in particular. Here, you must decide whether to put ur self behind even more for a proper fac timing or catch up in econ while you delay your facs. Either way, the toss will see this and react accordingly.
-It limits your mobility until you get your 3rd running. Its really annoying to push out because the wall basically funnels your units and it requires a lot of micro just to get them in the right position. This might hinder people that cant multitask.
Advantages of making two walls -Inherent advantages and disadvantages you mentioned -the cost is trivial because you are going to get depots and an ebay anyways, and you can just lift your rax to the 2nd wall. -if you wall with rax and ebay only, then you can lift them and regain much needed mobility. This wall doesnt have to be perfect because the sole purpose of this wall is to prevent goons from rushing in when you have 3-5 tanks behind it. -First wall gives a more of an economical advantage by being closer to the base than a nat wall. Also, the timing where the goons start attacking is perfect. The depot will not die before you send 3 scvs to repair it. -Econ advantages by skipping marines are partially maintained -Overall BO will be faster than if u walled in at nat -2nd wall might be slower if you did not pre-set it before your tanks moved out. -All advantages of making just 1 nat wall is inherent in making two walls. The disadvantages of making 1 nat wall are mostly gone when you make two walls.
And also A. Toss nexuses are up and running jsut as fast as cc's are. B. SCVs are just as important as Drones and Probes. Even losing a few puts you behind 200-400 minerals. The more they are on the move, the more minerals that arent being mined. C. Im not being negative towards this: im saying you should be safe and play on economy rather than chance. Have i said that making a nat wall is stupid? I said that you should make it as a 2nd wall, not your primary wall to keep the toss out. D. Look at pro and semi-pro replays. When you them wall, 95% of the time they are not walling at their nat choke, but their normal choke instead. Why? Its easier to defend and it doesnt fuck your econ as much. Then if you want, you can make cc at nat and use mines to keep toss out while making a second wall.
Trying to what? I'm not saying your guide is bad; its pretty good actually. I'm just stating some important facts people should know before they set up their wall.
On June 17 2008 00:07 NotSupporting wrote: Andromeda 5 nat is not working
Fixed it, Thanks.
On June 17 2008 02:03 Cloud wrote: I dont like the blue storm wall at 7. It doesnt block lings, better to have supply above the barracks.
I made the walls specifically for TvP, in this case, its so the marine can go through the wall without lifting the barracks to kill scouting probes. But yes, supply above the depot would be better for TvZ as it blocks zerglings.
Cons- -Easy to build incorrectly. -Unit pathing while going down the ramp may get screwy (especially when transferring workers) -Wall may die before scvs can repair it. -Useless after early game. -Good goon micro can really mess up your wall while tank is building. (Scvs repairing wall while goons take target practice nightmare) -Scouting workers can still get in if they scout fast enough, and they may also try to mess up your worker building a wall, or stop you from laying down the second depot. -More spots to defend from hardcore harass.
i disagree with "useless after early game". I've seen it save many players. And the rest of your cons is pretty much stating that a player is bad. all of the cons can easily be fixed with practice and proper builds including the unit pathing..
edit: the only real disadvantage it could bring u is the fact that ur scvs have to go father to build stuff which means less mining time and they can get picked off by probes every once and a while. Weigh that vs safe from a dt rush and decide on your own weather its worth it or not. as a P though, i like seeing no wall more then a wall.. 100%
Wait, that 9 main on Python seems wrong. Huge spot on the right.
And you guys will have to explain me why you think walling in TvZ is useless. I mean, it is the most efficient way to block lings rush. That can easily be done by putting SCV just after the hole between the two depots. You'll have to put marines behind SCV and select ALL UNITS to click on Hold Position. I said select all units because SCVs can't hold position when selected alone.
On July 10 2008 01:56 SpaCe)Ment-rA wrote: Wait, that 9 main on Python seems wrong. Huge spot on the right.
And you guys will have to explain me why you think walling in TvZ is useless. I mean, it is the most efficient way to block lings rush. That can easily be done by putting SCV just after the hole between the two depots. You'll have to put marines behind SCV and select ALL UNITS to click on Hold Position. I said select all units because SCVs can't hold position when selected alone.
So, how do you stop ling rush without a wall-in?.
Looks are deceiving, I'm positive that 9 blocks zealots and probes.
I believe the discussion was that walling in TvP at the natural was not beneficial, and had nothing to do with TvZ, however stopping ling rushes although being easier with a wall in, can be stopped with proper scouting and just blocking the ramp with scvs and holding position.
I'd like to add that if you are walling vs a zerg, you should modify any of the walls I made for TvZ use, by putting depots above the barracks whenever possible.
On June 17 2008 09:16 G5 wrote: i disagree with "useless after early game". I've seen it save many players. And the rest of your cons is pretty much stating that a player is bad. all of the cons can easily be fixed with practice and proper builds including the unit pathing..
I think every single Artosis TvP on Python that I've watched, he always ends up landing his Barracks back to reseal his wall and stop Protoss units from pouring through sometime during the lategame :p
On July 10 2008 01:56 SpaCe)Ment-rA wrote: Wait, that 9 main on Python seems wrong. Huge spot on the right.
And you guys will have to explain me why you think walling in TvZ is useless. I mean, it is the most efficient way to block lings rush. That can easily be done by putting SCV just after the hole between the two depots. You'll have to put marines behind SCV and select ALL UNITS to click on Hold Position. I said select all units because SCVs can't hold position when selected alone.
So, how do you stop ling rush without a wall-in?.
Looks are deceiving, I'm positive that 9 blocks zealots and probes.
I believe the discussion was that walling in TvP at the natural was not beneficial, and had nothing to do with TvZ, however stopping ling rushes although being easier with a wall in, can be stopped with proper scouting and just blocking the ramp with scvs and holding position.
I'd like to add that if you are walling vs a zerg, you should modify any of the walls I made for TvZ use, by putting depots above the barracks whenever possible.
It does, rest assured. It was a pain in the ass for me to find out how to wall in that spot, but it's the correct way.
Thanks a ton for this guide, the effort you put in shall really pay off to many players. I've bookmarked it and will definitely return to look at the pictures when I'll need it.
wow great post, im a protoss player who likes to dabble in terran from time to time, and i screw up walls more than anyone hehe --v This will be really nice to take a look at and start trying. So glad i joined this forum ^^
On June 17 2008 09:16 G5 wrote: Cons- -Easy to build incorrectly. -Unit pathing while going down the ramp may get screwy (especially when transferring workers) -Wall may die before scvs can repair it. -Useless after early game. -Good goon micro can really mess up your wall while tank is building. (Scvs repairing wall while goons take target practice nightmare) -Scouting workers can still get in if they scout fast enough, and they may also try to mess up your worker building a wall, or stop you from laying down the second depot. -More spots to defend from hardcore harass.
i disagree with "useless after early game". I've seen it save many players. And the rest of your cons is pretty much stating that a player is bad. all of the cons can easily be fixed with practice and proper builds including the unit pathing..
edit: the only real disadvantage it could bring u is the fact that ur scvs have to go father to build stuff which means less mining time and they can get picked off by probes every once and a while. Weigh that vs safe from a dt rush and decide on your own weather its worth it or not. as a P though, i like seeing no wall more then a wall.. 100%
I agree esp for lower apm players i've used walling for tvp as a way to slow the goon and zealot cuz frankly i cannot micro my rines constantly while i 2 rax i don't need wall if i use older builds but 2 rax my tank comes out a bit slow and i usually resort to a wall or bunker to survive againist a better protoss player
imBLIND is right, and when he provides a nice detailed post the OP says "stop trying so hard" and refuses to continue replying to it
Also your wall at 6 on python spawns marines outside and requires lifting the rax, and the wall at 12 on python can also be made with the left depot above the right depot to block lings as well if needed
Wall at 6 to not require lifting is depot, rax under, then depot to right and under rax, but limits the number of scvs that can repair the bottom depot. pics below, shows where marine spawns
I always hated walling in TvP when playing Protoss because it was such an unfair advantage that T had when he was going straight to Factory...that period of time was when T was vulnerable unit-wise, and walling made it possible for T to defend against P with much less units just by a race advantage...imba? maybe. gay? yes.
Nice guide, especially the pictures. Myself i've always kept walling in, but the last two years, for some reason it's become popular not to do it, tvp. Maybe it's a macho thing, but i always thought it was just giving your opponent an advantage he shouldn't have by allowing him to harrass with a zealot, dragoons after, etc, all the while seeing everything you do.
Great guide, the pictures really help, especially the map specific ones. The terrans I play against (as P) don't wall like this though, which is a good thing when my dts get into their base.
I was trying to find this in the Recommended Threads for my friend, but I couldn't find it. Then I realized it wasn't in there at all. I think it'd be a worthy add-on.
NEW IMPROVED WALLS: If any of you don't know how to wall on BB I put plating on the floor to give a semi blueprint. and here are the screen shots if you're still confused.
Academy is usually a good alternative to block smaller units like lings, it can complete block and do it with more angles.
EDIT- I guess lings, ghosts and marines have different angle sizes or something because they fit differently through walls. The original 4 I posted may or may not leave a space for lings to run through. I'm posting some fixes below them.
I was fucking around with different kinds of walls and I found that you can fully wall (block small units) at every base in at least 1 way. I also found about 1-5 different ways to wall normally (just blocking zeals/workers & larger) at each spot too.
Here are the complete blocks/walls (using acad): + Show Spoiler +
11 TL:
5 (BR):
1 (TR):
7 (BL): 1
2
OK FIXED WALLS HERE:
Walls lings & Marines + out, but as you see a ghost can fit through in that spot
Ok, this spot is weird. Ghost can fit there although nothing else can and he can't fit where the ling is but nothing else can. But the unusual thing about where the ling is, is that u can't just click move behind the wall you have to kinda guide him through the spot. It's realyl strange, try it to see what I mean.
This wall is perfect. No lings & ghosts + can fit through anywhere.
Bottom Left Is totally screwy, I can't get a wall to work right there. Gave up trying to find a perfect one. Here is the original one I found with a red X where a ling can fit. Ghosts & Marines + can't fit through anywhere though.
I made a Very nice guide myself a while ago, but I put it in blog section because there were some similar threads already. I REALLY think more people should see it as I think I cover some things not covered here.
Here, TAKE A LOOK at my work: I did a research on this subject also, because I tought that skyglow's original guide didnt explore all the options. I have a good bunch of screenshots which i'll post here and you can include it in your post if you like them. I think you'll find some of them interesting. I was going to create a thread, but I just couldnt get myself to start typing. I covered all possibilities of making CC, Barax and supply next to each other because that's basicall all you have to work with in the early game. Some block better than the others, some are useful - some suck. What I really focused on is exploiting the matrix, so keep an eye on which parts of the buildings overlap before going to do it yourself. After I did this research, went to play some games, it took me some time to actually use the things I learned, because I kept doing it wrong. Anyway, have a look:
CC + supply combos: No matter how you put them next to each other, not a marine nor a zealot can go in between. (Had a picture of it, but apparently I dont have it anymore. This one shouldnt be too hard to understand )
Practical use: I made all starting positions for the RLT and RHIII so that you get the idea of how to use this in a real game.
I made a Very nice guide myself a while ago, but I put it in blog section because there were some similar threads already. I REALLY think more people should see it as I think I cover some things not covered here.
Here, TAKE A LOOK at my work: I did a research on this subject also, because I tought that skyglow's original guide didnt explore all the options. I have a good bunch of screenshots which i'll post here and you can include it in your post if you like them. I think you'll find some of them interesting. I was going to create a thread, but I just couldnt get myself to start typing. I covered all possibilities of making CC, Barax and supply next to each other because that's basicall all you have to work with in the early game. Some block better than the others, some are useful - some suck. What I really focused on is exploiting the matrix, so keep an eye on which parts of the buildings overlap before going to do it yourself. After I did this research, went to play some games, it took me some time to actually use the things I learned, because I kept doing it wrong. Anyway, have a look:
CC + supply combos: No matter how you put them next to each other, not a marine nor a zealot can go in between. (Had a picture of it, but apparently I dont have it anymore. This one shouldnt be too hard to understand )
Practical use: I made all starting positions for the RLT and RHIII so that you get the idea of how to use this in a real game.
On August 05 2008 17:13 IzzyCraft wrote: Plasma looks like an easy wall small ramp looks promising
You'd be surprised. I updated the OP with Plasma and Return of the King walls and let me say Plasma was an absolute nightmare to wall on. I was expecting to be able to wall with 2 buildings but that was not the case. Furthermore you can't even wall properly at one of the positions.
I guess it doesn't really matter though because of the eggs, I don't see why it would be useful to wall on this map, however I took the screens before realizing this so they're there.
On August 05 2008 17:13 IzzyCraft wrote: Plasma looks like an easy wall small ramp looks promising
You'd be surprised. I updated the OP with Plasma and Return of the King walls and let me say Plasma was an absolute nightmare to wall on. I was expecting to be able to wall with 2 buildings but that was not the case. Furthermore you can't even wall properly at one of the positions.
I guess it doesn't really matter though because of the eggs, I don't see why it would be useful to wall on this map, however I took the screens before realizing this so they're there.
BTW, 11 spawn ramp on Plasma can be blocked with just 1 supply and 1 barracks (refer to Sea v Pure game 1)
On August 05 2008 17:13 IzzyCraft wrote: Plasma looks like an easy wall small ramp looks promising
You'd be surprised. I updated the OP with Plasma and Return of the King walls and let me say Plasma was an absolute nightmare to wall on. I was expecting to be able to wall with 2 buildings but that was not the case. Furthermore you can't even wall properly at one of the positions.
I guess it doesn't really matter though because of the eggs, I don't see why it would be useful to wall on this map, however I took the screens before realizing this so they're there.
BTW, 11 spawn ramp on Plasma can be blocked with just 1 supply and 1 barracks (refer to Sea v Pure game 1)
Thank you for this information. I watched the first couple minutes of the game and was very surprised when the exact same wall I tried before blocked his probe. As I thought about it though, I came to the realization that probes are slightly larger units than zealots, which is the unit I normally test my walls on. Since there obviously is no threat of zealots on plasma, (if zealots are running up your ramped you might as well gg) I have updated the walls for plasma to account for this.
I know Simcity has been talked about before by Frozen Arbiter, and more recently I heard the term from Daniel Lee. Now. Theres some other strategic simcity placements to help on other maps. I don't know if we needed another thread on it, but why not add some to this?
Some get pretty complex, but look cool and work well. I don't think its a major issue or anything, but it might make the difference in polishing someones play.
On August 30 2008 07:18 HooHa! wrote: Just a request.
I know Simcity has been talked about before by Frozen Arbiter, and more recently I heard the term from Daniel Lee. Now. Theres some other strategic simcity placements to help on other maps. I don't know if we needed another thread on it, but why not add some to this?
Some get pretty complex, but look cool and work well. I don't think its a major issue or anything, but it might make the difference in polishing someones play.
Simcity is a term coined for Protoss players, it wouldn't make sense to put this kind of information in a guide about walling for Terran All you really need to know about simcity is place your cannons behind a row of gateways / robotics facilities. Pictures aren't required for someone to understand this, as the this contains the same concept in building fast expand defenses with gate/forge/cannon. Furthermore, it certainly isn't worth the time to memorize more than the general area of where you should begin to make your barrier of buildings.
The closest I'll ever get to Simcity with Terran is putting bunkers behind supplies / barracks / engineering bays at my expos which I only do rarely.
I hadn't seen this before, but I'll comment on the BGH walls.
It's possible to wall in the 3 so that marines come out on the inside (they'll come out on the outside of that wall unless you put an SCV or something else in the right position on the outside, which sucks ) It's possible to wall the 7 in further back and still be lingproof.
(I'm not at home where I have BW or else I'd post them)
On August 30 2008 09:57 HnR)Insane wrote: I hadn't seen this before, but I'll comment on the BGH walls.
It's possible to wall in the 3 so that marines come out on the inside (they'll come out on the outside of that wall unless you put an SCV or something else in the right position on the outside, which sucks ) It's possible to wall the 7 in further back and still be lingproof.
(I'm not at home where I have BW or else I'd post them)
Fixed
I'll post the new (and apparently old too) proleague map walls when they come out.
hey for the bb walls in OP, you forgot bottom right wall (it only works on my version though, otherwise you'd have to use 3). You can find pic in my blog
edit- wow, I guess I never uploaded the pic. well here is huge pic of all 4 walls
If you want, that other pic with the academy walls is the same position as the depot wall.
Anyone know how to properly wall-in on Byzantium II? I tried twice with 3 buildings but I always seem to leave a small space at the top or bottom open which my scv would have to block.
On September 27 2008 08:29 writer22816 wrote: Anyone know how to properly wall-in on Byzantium II? I tried twice with 3 buildings but I always seem to leave a small space at the top or bottom open which my scv would have to block.
On September 28 2008 00:20 clazziquai wrote: I think the maps were protected.
There are a number of tools to remove the protection on maps so you can open them in an editor, though you can't use the auto-title brush to modify the terrain, and instead have to "build" the terrain from scratch if you want to change any geographical features on unprotected maps.
On September 27 2008 08:29 writer22816 wrote: Anyone know how to properly wall-in on Byzantium II? I tried twice with 3 buildings but I always seem to leave a small space at the top or bottom open which my scv would have to block.
thanks for the post. that buildings are fatter/slimmer on different sides is something i haven't contemplated (even though i have played terran for ages). so every time i have improvised a wall i am sitting there praying this time it'll work. so hopefully this will help me from keeping the protoss scum out in the future.. zerg to for that matter..
On November 05 2008 05:38 blabber wrote: I would just look at some VODs, but I was too lazy to search. So I just found some myself. Anyways, here's Medusa:
On August 30 2008 07:18 HooHa! wrote: Just a request.
I know Simcity has been talked about before by Frozen Arbiter, and more recently I heard the term from Daniel Lee. Now. Theres some other strategic simcity placements to help on other maps. I don't know if we needed another thread on it, but why not add some to this?
Some get pretty complex, but look cool and work well. I don't think its a major issue or anything, but it might make the difference in polishing someones play.
Simcity is a term coined for Protoss players, it wouldn't make sense to put this kind of information in a guide about walling for Terran All you really need to know about simcity is place your cannons behind a row of gateways / robotics facilities. Pictures aren't required for someone to understand this, as the this contains the same concept in building fast expand defenses with gate/forge/cannon. Furthermore, it certainly isn't worth the time to memorize more than the general area of where you should begin to make your barrier of buildings.
The closest I'll ever get to Simcity with Terran is putting bunkers behind supplies / barracks / engineering bays at my expos which I only do rarely.
Sim city can mean building setups but can also mean the overall layout of your base. For example if your supply depots are all neatly lined up and in one section where your rax are lined up and in one section I would compliment that your simcity is nice. But if your supplies are all placed randomly and your base looks messy i would say your simcity is bad.
In TvZ walling is less advantageous as those pesky little anorexic zerglings can fit through just about anything. However, if you do choose the wall it will definitely raise your Zerg opponent's eyebrows, and he may suspect something suspicious when you are actually doing a normal 1 rax expand. (Mind gamessss) If you are doing a tech build then walling makes defending much easier even if zerglings can breach your wall.
If its a 3 building wall, you can make your wall ling safe by putting an academy in the middle intead of a secound supplie. I used that trick often in the "LT days" when i spawned at 12. Teching in TvZ is sooo fun. I miss the good old micro days.
I'm having a lot of trouble walling at the 1 o'clock position on Sword in the Moon 2.1; for whatever reason, zealots can always slip through. All other positions are easy enough -- hell, I can even do a perfect wall at the 7 o'clock position.
On December 30 2008 22:33 VorcePA wrote: I'm having a lot of trouble walling at the 1 o'clock position on Sword in the Moon 2.1; for whatever reason, zealots can always slip through. All other positions are easy enough -- hell, I can even do a perfect wall at the 7 o'clock position.
Anybody else have some luck?
fuck, that 1 o'clock can't be walled with Baracks + 2supplies. You can do it with 3 supplies like this, but the question is if a 3 supplies+baracks wall is of any use in a standard tvp.
1 o'clock position:
And here's the 7 o'clock position:
If you make it like in the picture, the marine can go in between, but the zealot cant. If you need a ling tight wall on that position, put the barracks one square to the right.
In TvZ walling is less advantageous as those pesky little anorexic zerglings can fit through just about anything. However, if you do choose the wall it will definitely raise your Zerg opponent's eyebrows, and he may suspect something suspicious when you are actually doing a normal 1 rax expand. (Mind gamessss) If you are doing a tech build then walling makes defending much easier even if zerglings can breach your wall.
If its a 3 building wall, you can make your wall ling safe by putting an academy in the middle intead of a secound supplie. I used that trick often in the "LT days" when i spawned at 12. Teching in TvZ is sooo fun. I miss the good old micro days.
Mech build TvZ? Day9 made a thread about Fantasy's build.
In TvZ walling is less advantageous as those pesky little anorexic zerglings can fit through just about anything. However, if you do choose the wall it will definitely raise your Zerg opponent's eyebrows, and he may suspect something suspicious when you are actually doing a normal 1 rax expand. (Mind gamessss) If you are doing a tech build then walling makes defending much easier even if zerglings can breach your wall.
If its a 3 building wall, you can make your wall ling safe by putting an academy in the middle intead of a secound supplie. I used that trick often in the "LT days" when i spawned at 12. Teching in TvZ is sooo fun. I miss the good old micro days.
Mech build TvZ? Day9 made a thread about Fantasy's build.
Academy comes in far too late to be effective where the wall in fantasy build helps, (to help negate early ling pressure) and normally you aren't getting academy for a while anyways.
an interesting thing is to wall at ur 3rd base or whatever with supplies, similar to what protosses do when they take another main and block with pylons
flash did it against bisu on destination with mixed results
On January 21 2009 05:33 InfeSteD wrote: Thank you guys so much.. Equinox IMp retty sure if u do it.. just send shake a pm and hell edit his post later..
Destination, medusa, chupungreyong, etc
I'll do Medusa in a few hours after I get back home
Pictures are jumbled up but I captioned them for convenience.
Medusa 1
Medusa 11 natural
Medusa 1 natural
Medusa 11
Medusa 7 natural
Medusa 7
God I swear 1 o clock was the most frustrating thing ever. Must've destroyed a hundred Depots figuring out what the wall was. Much love to Sea[shield] for finally showing it to me in a VOD on TLPD :O
I disagree that walls are more useful in TvT than they are in TvZ. They are the least useful in TvT, and I would actually argue that they are MOST useful nowadays in TvZ, since mech has become quite popular and a lot of maps allow for ling-tight wall-ins at the natural, allowing you to take your expo without having to build more than one marine and not having to worry about any early ling cheesiness. They can of course be useful in TvP, but you sometimes have to be careful when you wall. If they proxy a gateway near your base, you have to worry about blocking their probe from building a pylon in your wall. If they manage to do so, it becomes much harder to defend than if you had just sim citied near your command. Dealing with probe harass is also a lot easier and affords you more mining time if you don't wall.
On January 21 2009 12:48 NeVeR wrote: I disagree that walls are more useful in TvT than they are in TvZ. They are the least useful in TvT, and I would actually argue that they are MOST useful nowadays in TvZ, since mech has become quite popular and a lot of maps allow for ling-tight wall-ins at the natural, allowing you to take your expo without having to build more than one marine and not having to worry about any early ling cheesiness. They can of course be useful in TvP, but you sometimes have to be careful when you wall. If they proxy a gateway near your base, you have to worry about blocking their probe from building a pylon in your wall. If they manage to do so, it becomes much harder to defend than if you had just sim citied near your command. Dealing with probe harass is also a lot easier and affords you more mining time if you don't wall.
You have to realize that I wrote this about 6 months ago with minimal editing afterwards to the actual text involved, (I intend to update eventually once I start playing more). Anyway, most useful or not, walls have their benefits in all match ups. Even with a perfect wall you are not invulnerable to ling cheese.
Update : Added Medusa and alternate Destination walls. (Keep them coming!)
On January 21 2009 11:33 Equinox_kr wrote: God I swear 1 o clock was the most frustrating thing ever. Must've destroyed a hundred Depots figuring out what the wall was. Much love to Sea[shield] for finally showing it to me in a VOD on TLPD :O
Look at Tau Cross Took me some time finding those walls, so weird placement
Does anyone know why it is that a wall that blocks zeal/probe + and probably even marines can sometimes let ling fit, let ghost fit, let ling/ghost fit, let ling/ghost fit through different places and not the same spots? And sometimes it won't allow you to just click once and move behind the wall, sometimes you have to guide the unit through the opening.
It's so weird. Also If you put an assimilator on the very left edge of the map a zergling can run between the edge and the assim but once you kill it he cant fit anymore.
If you guys actually read my part of the OP, and spent 5 minutes mastering it, you would know that there are often many possible variations of walls. I can make a wall on any 'wallable' map without much thinking.
is there a way of walling in gods garden? i played around with it and the area around the ramps on the high ground is unbuildable and the enterance to the expansion is quite wide. I only managed to figure out a wall-in for the 1 o'clock position, because you can use the minerals there to help you wall in.
And for battle royale you could just destroy the assimilators to create a wall in?
I just dont trust my micro and I feel more comfortable if the protoss scum is outside my base.
This is the wall I made on gods garden 1 o'clock. i didnt actaully test it with zealots but as far as i understand walls it should work. (the scv couldnt get out if that means anything)
Btw how do you test it? you start with protoss and mindcontrol enemy scv or smth?
And for the other 3 bases I don't think its possible to get zealot proof walls with 3buildings. although if you are willing to add your factory ( Or third supply I suppose, but third supply comes later than factory) there too you can use the 4 buildings to get a zealot proof wall and have tanks spawn in your base, but that seems silly since you get a free base behind anyways.
But I don't see any situation where exposing your factory like that for a walled in nat will be worth it.
Sorry to bump this again, but can OP update the pictures of the diagrams for the buildings? Basically all but the first image in the spoiler under the "How to Build a Wall" section. The image URLs don't work anymore...:\
Depots next to each other are zealot proof and depots above/below each other are zealot + ling proof. If the barracks is below or to the left of the depot that is a block.(not sure about lings but definitely zeals + probe)
I am a terribly incompetent fool and have misplaced my folder full of these pictures.
However, within the next week ill salvage whats still here, fill in the missing pieces and reupload everything to a new imagehost. If I'm up to it I'll include some new maps as well.
Can anyone suggest a good long term imagehost? I was thinking about just uploading to tinypic but I haven't used it for long term image hosting before.
Lots of newbs still use LT in battlenet, so here are the wall-ins for the natural. Like Python, the 3 Nat is the only area in the map that cannot be walled-in with 1 rax/2 supply
Problem with those walls though is that you would need to keep an SCV there really early, then another, and probably a 3rd until a tank or two pops out vs protoss.
Otherwise probe,2-3 zeal, 1-3 goon are gonna smash a depot in a second, even if you have a few marines there. So for 12 v 3 you might as well just wall a P into his nat in the first place lol.edit- where is the 3 wall? (cant be done?)
BTW here's a ZERGLING TIGHT WALLIN on Python at 12. Not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but I think it's better than the wallin that the OP has.
MAYBE IT WASNT CLEAR BUT I MADE ALL THESE WALLS FOR TVP. I DO REALISE ZERGLINGS CAN PASS THROUGH MOST OF THESE. IF YOU WANT ZERGLING TIGHT WALLS, SUPPLY ABOVE BARRACKS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. MOST OF THE TIME YOU CANT GET ZERGLING TIGHT WALLS WITH THREE BUILDINGS, BUT IF YOU CAN MAKE AT LEAST ONE PART TIGHT, YOU CAN BLOCK THE OTHER WITH AN SCV.
MAYBE IT WASNT CLEAR BUT I MADE ALL THESE WALLS FOR TVP. I DO REALISE ZERGLINGS CAN PASS THROUGH MOST OF THESE. IF YOU WANT ZERGLING TIGHT WALLS, SUPPLY ABOVE BARRACKS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. MOST OF THE TIME YOU CANT GET ZERGLING TIGHT WALLS WITH THREE BUILDINGS, BUT IF YOU CAN MAKE AT LEAST ONE PART TIGHT, YOU CAN BLOCK THE OTHER WITH AN SCV.
Well I guess you can use the zergling tight wallins for TVP i guess? If you place the depot diagonal to the other depot, you can get marines through but not zealots/probes EDIT: Referring to my post about 12 main at python.
Long story short, I basically spent the last 4 days of my summer creating images, uploading them, rewriting the entire thing, and creating an easier to use format than the previous so that you can find walls for a certain map quickly and efficiently. Furthermore, I've created a zip file with all the map images inside of it which can be found near the bottom of section 3. And, of course, I added a bunch of new maps.
Sorry for my lack of updates throughout the past year, I hope this makes up for it. I'll start editing the Terran walling page of liquipedia maybe in a couple weeks, gotta take a break for now.
Heres some ways to wall on one of the new Proleague maps, Match Point It looks like for TvP you put the rax next to the minerals while for TvZ you put the depot next to the minerals, while its not a ling proof if you spare an scv and have a few marine you should be bale to hold off an all-in. Well whether the rax is in the middle or next to the mineral patch it's still not ling proof 2 o'clock + Show Spoiler +
On September 01 2009 22:46 Monokeros wrote: Heres some ways to wall on one of the new Proleague maps, Match Point It looks like for TvP you put the rax next to the minerals while for TvZ you put the depot next to the minerals, while its not a ling proof if you spare an scv and have a few marine you should be bale to hold off an all-in. Well whether the rax is in the middle or next to the mineral patch it's still not ling proof 2 o'clock + Show Spoiler +
Thanks. Don't bother doing the rest though, they're already in the works and they should be done within an hour, since school was canceled for me. California fires.
Added the Mains and Naturals for the following new proleague maps: Acro Asgard Judgment Day Moon Glaive Match Point Roadrunner Silver Wing Tornado
Tell me if the names ever change from GTRs translations, the maps change rendering certain walls useless, or something gets scrapped. I'll react accordingly.
I'll upload a new version of the wall image pack soon. It's up.
Very nice and helpful thread,thanks. I just wanna mention that you can wall off Gods Garden also,if you do it downside the ramp. There´s very few room to micro,but decide for yourself:
Note: On the upper left and down right expansion,the room becomes very small,if you´re about to move out,so it may be viable to destroy a depot there,when it is time. And on the upper right expansion,the scvs spawn outside and can´t get in anymore without lifting a building.
When testing a wall, use zealots! A rule of thumb is that if an SCV can't walk through a zealot can't either. But SCVs are 23x23 and zealots are 23x19.
Since Fighting spirit is one of the motw I made some test and noticed that the wall at 1 o'clock main is wrong. You can also make a wall at 7 with only one supply and a barracks. And you use the same image for 7 and 11. Here is the real walls:
On June 14 2008 13:34 Archaic wrote: Wow, very comprehensive guide. I know there have been guides like this before, but this was simple and straight forward. Whenever I end up playing T by accident, or just testing it out, I can't tell you how many times my walls have failed (gaps that tanks can fit through). Thanks for the pics and how to wall off the nat.
On November 29 2009 18:10 lMPERVlOUS wrote: Got a comment about the "match point" wall at 7 o'clock.
I played against someone, and got lings through it..... They went around the left side of the barracks..... I can upload rep if needed.....
This is how you do it.
This is clearly 1 o'clock, but the wall works in the same way.
I fucked up because I test my walls with marines (I'm lazy) as opposed to with actual zerglings. This results in very rare errors that almost always have to do with barracks and terrain collisions that zerglings can fit through but not marines.
Again, The latest batch I created was strait from the beta maps, so they're different from the final versions. If you find more errors (theres probably a ton) or have any more maps to request, please pm me or post here, and I will do my best to edit them into the guide.
i never really understood why terran players dont wall off. i mean the pros outweigh the cons. though i do love when they dont cause that means i just have to go 2 gate and i win the game.
if a terran walls off, that forces a whole new strategy to be played out by the other player. like pvt. if i see him not walling, i go 2 gate and win. however if he does wall off, then i have to go 1 gate tech and have to stick it out with their faggot tanks and watch them turn their flaccid dick to a insta-boner and explode all over my troops
On December 21 2009 03:34 heroyi wrote: i never really understood why terran players dont wall off. i mean the pros outweigh the cons. though i do love when they dont cause that means i just have to go 2 gate and i win the game.
if a terran walls off, that forces a whole new strategy to be played out by the other player. like pvt. if i see him not walling, i go 2 gate and win. however if he does wall off, then i have to go 1 gate tech and have to stick it out with their faggot tanks and watch them turn their flaccid dick to a insta-boner and explode all over my troops
the walling pics for fighting spirit should be fixed... i just lost a tvp game on iccup because of this,, 5 o clock and 7 o clock positions need to be re-done asap. thanks.
thanks for the pics. really helps me out walling vs zerg. walls can help you deal with cheeses as they will just lock the zeeals or lings outside while your rines deal with them. thx for teh guide
On April 26 2010 01:06 4iner wrote: By my testing, the main at 1 o'clock on fighting spirit is not wallable with the arrangement given in the article. A zealot can fit though.
On April 26 2010 01:06 4iner wrote: By my testing, the main at 1 o'clock on fighting spirit is not wallable with the arrangement given in the article. A zealot can fit though.
Ok I updated it with the wall posted whitelynx posted. Thanks guys.
On June 14 2008 23:18 axel wrote: terrans should always wall asap vs P whatever they plan.
lol are you serious? The main summary should to always avoid walling as much as you can. Only do it if you're not confident in your positioning and micro... lmfao funny
Anyways I thought if a simple guide like this was to be posted it would automatically be locked... its already on youtube and liquipedia
EDIT: Wow didn't look at this date, whoever bumped this, thanks.
On May 07 2010 10:23 4iner wrote: The walls for moon glaive at natural are out of date. Here are the ones that will work for the current version (all are zealot proof):
On May 13 2010 02:21 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: needs a protoss version, since walls in pvz are natural now
Well I'm not going to spend my time doing that since I'm a Terran player but I can point you to where you can find most of the popular walls, although these aren't nearly as comprehensive or complete as my guide.
On June 28 2010 14:29 Chunkybuddha wrote: Is there anyway to make zergling proof walls on say, python or fighting spirit at your natural??
No, but if the Z is going all in ling you could just build a semi-wall with bunker/depot/ebay or something and fill holes and ramp with scv and tech up to firebat.
On June 28 2010 14:29 Chunkybuddha wrote: Is there anyway to make zergling proof walls on say, python or fighting spirit at your natural??
No, but if the Z is going all in ling you could just build a semi-wall with bunker/depot/ebay or something and fill holes and ramp with scv and tech up to firebat.
I decided not to accept your answer and play around with walling.
Here is what I came up with, and should be added to the thread's guide...
Yay! Thank you! Reading this helped my vP and vZ games so much. Plus it amuses me to no end to see a zergling rush mill around uselessly outside of my base while my 'rines pick em off.
On June 28 2010 14:29 Chunkybuddha wrote: Is there anyway to make zergling proof walls on say, python or fighting spirit at your natural??
No, but if the Z is going all in ling you could just build a semi-wall with bunker/depot/ebay or something and fill holes and ramp with scv and tech up to firebat.
I decided not to accept your answer and play around with walling.
Here is what I came up with, and should be added to the thread's guide...
On June 28 2010 14:29 Chunkybuddha wrote: Is there anyway to make zergling proof walls on say, python or fighting spirit at your natural??
No, but if the Z is going all in ling you could just build a semi-wall with bunker/depot/ebay or something and fill holes and ramp with scv and tech up to firebat.
I decided not to accept your answer and play around with walling.
Here is what I came up with, and should be added to the thread's guide...
images
When on earth would you ever wall with CCs? Wtf?
If you're playing on Blue Storm TvZ, and spawn at the 1 o'clock position, and you're trying to go 15cc, then you do this. You can try to wall-in with a rax and supply depot, but then you have to lift the rax to get marines back into your main, and that's a hassle. Much easier is to build the rax in your main, and make a ling tight wall with a supply depot and CC. Then, when your CC is finished and you have enough marines, you can move out and take your natural that way. Much simpler than the alternative.
Yo dawg, I heard ya like spoila's so I put a spoiler in yo spoila in yo spoila in yo spoila so you can spoil and spoil while ya spoil yo spoila's while ya get get spoiled by yo spoila's.
Otherwise, very interesting, and will use in the future.
If you have better walls, tell me and I'll update.
Yo thanks for doing this. I'll get around to adding these whenever I get the motivation to wade through my mess of BBCode in the op. I'll also probably add some more maps at that time but give me like a week to do this.
Soo I'm not really sure where to post this, but I went to Liquipedia, and it does not have these walls (and does not allow images to uploaded larger than 1MB). Broodwall.com also doesn't have these, and the upload feature seems to be broken... So here it goes.
If this was not the right place to post this, please move it whereever it needs to be moved to (and let me know how to share stuff like this the next time around).
On April 27 2019 22:20 fazek42 wrote: Soo I'm not really sure where to post this, but I went to Liquipedia, and it does not have these walls (and does not allow images to uploaded larger than 1MB). Broodwall.com also doesn't have these, and the upload feature seems to be broken... So here it goes.
If this was not the right place to post this, please move it whereever it needs to be moved to (and let me know how to share stuff like this the next time around).
On April 27 2019 22:20 fazek42 wrote: Soo I'm not really sure where to post this, but I went to Liquipedia, and it does not have these walls (and does not allow images to uploaded larger than 1MB). Broodwall.com also doesn't have these, and the upload feature seems to be broken... So here it goes.
If this was not the right place to post this, please move it whereever it needs to be moved to (and let me know how to share stuff like this the next time around).
On April 27 2019 22:20 fazek42 wrote: Broodwall.com also doesn't have these, and the upload feature seems to be broken...
Upload doesn't work like on wikipedia or liqui, it just sends things to the server where we have to add it manually (otherwise, it would create a mess). Thanks for the mail; I'll add those with your nickname annotation
On April 27 2019 22:20 fazek42 wrote: Broodwall.com also doesn't have these, and the upload feature seems to be broken...
Upload doesn't work like on wikipedia or liqui, it just sends things to the server where we have to add it manually (otherwise, it would create a mess). Thanks for the mail; I'll add those with your nickname annotation
Ah okay, cool! It's a great website btw maybe just add a small popup that shows on finishing the upload telling the user this as well and that it'll be looked at eventually.
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