Wow this is great.

Except I thought it was always a good idea to upgrade attack when going ZvT since w/o attack it takes 5 to snipe a marine, while with attack it only takes 4.

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17732 Posts

November 28 2007 10:47 GMT

#86

Waste of min/gas. And by the time the upgrade finishes mutas would be useless. And why use money on upgrades when you make only like 9 mutas. Mutas arent used in zvt for an attacking unit. Mostly used for harassing and to buy time.

Edit. I cant believe i miss this thread. Finished reading. Finally understood why my mutas stopped while attacking. They have to be moving and have to attack where they are facing.

Zergaphobia

1 Post

November 29 2007 03:13 GMT

#87

Sorry if this has been ask (scanned first few pages and didn't see it) Ensare in a muta/muta fight, as all i didnt use queens at all then i saw a ZvZ pro Video and there were multiple times when ensare was used to slow and kill running muta, is it worth it? ive used it in my games but i am very low skill level and so is my training buddy (it worked well)

tKd_

United States2916 Posts

November 29 2007 04:37 GMT

#88

On November 29 2007 12:13 Zergaphobia wrote:
Sorry if this has been ask (scanned first few pages and didn't see it) Ensare in a muta/muta fight, as all i didnt use queens at all then i saw a ZvZ pro Video and there were multiple times when ensare was used to slow and kill running muta, is it worth it? ive used it in my games but i am very low skill level and so is my training buddy (it worked well)

It is not worth it because you need to spend over 300 gas to get to this tech and use it, have more micro, and wait a long time to have the perfect timing to execute it. zvz is all about 1 small thing that can help you secure the game.

Terje

Norway6 Posts

November 30 2007 15:26 GMT

#89

In the ZvZ part it said:
When you upgrade attack, dmg becomes 10, 3.33, 1.11, essentially an increase of 1.44 damage; however, when fighting an opponent who instead upgraded carapace, each of those hits gets reduced by 1, meaning it would become 9, 2.33, 0.11. The carapace-upgrade Mutalisks are taking 1.56 less damage per attack.

Im pretty new but i think i remember reading that an attack cant do less than 0.5 dmg, so if this is right the carapace mutas take only 1.17 dmg less. And in that case attack up would be more useful?
First post so, hey everyone ^^

ZerG~LegenD

Sweden1179 Posts

November 30 2007 15:44 GMT

#90

Well,
10+3.33+1.11=14.44, 14.44-(9+3+1)=1.44 (The extra damage added from 0-1 when fighting 0-0)
8+(9/3)-1+(9/9)-1=10, 13-10=3 (The damage reduction from 1-0 when fighting 0-0)

(9+1-1)+(9+1)/3-1+0.5=11.83 (The damage of a 0-1 muta fighting 1-0 mutas)
9+3+1=13 (The damage of a 1-0 muta fighting 0-1 mutas)

That would be the stats with the classic method. However, I'm not sure whether you subtract the armor before or after the bounce reduction, in the case of explosive damage the armor is withdrawn before the exposive reduction. If that was the case for muta bounce then both grades would provide equal boosts. Anyone has ever tried it out?

Terje

Norway6 Posts

November 30 2007 16:02 GMT

#91

8+(9/3)-1+(9/9)-1=10, 13-10=3 (The damage reduction from 1-0 when fighting 0-0)

this is wrong because (9/3)-1 = 2 and (9/9)-1 = 0.5 (because its the lowest damage possible.)

8+(9/3)-1+(9/9)-1=10.5, 13-10.5=2.5, so yeah its better, but not by as much as ure calculation said.
but anyway id assume both players would upgrade their mutas so they wouldnt fight 1-0 or 0-1 vs 0-0

1 atk vs 1 def is 9+2.33+0.5 (not 0.11) =11.83 (not 11.44)
1 def vs 1 atk is 13 dmg so i admit defeat, but get the math right.

Chill

Calgary25990 Posts

November 30 2007 16:17 GMT

#92

It should be mentioned that because damage is counted as either an integer or a half, the numbers won't work out exactly as mentioned above, but it was just to give an example.

I mean, if you want to do the exact math go ahead, but any way you calculate it getting Carapace is better.

EternaLEnVy

Canada513 Posts

March 03 2009 06:07 GMT

#93

Whats cloning, is it just right clicking a unit with the scourge. I'm very new.

Chill

Calgary25990 Posts

March 03 2009 06:12 GMT

#94

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=61389

Grobyc

Canada18410 Posts

March 03 2009 06:14 GMT

#95

It's shift deselecting a unit from your group after you have told that group to do an action so that that single unit(or possibly more than one(i.e scourges killing a vessel)) will complete it's action and you can tell the rest of the group to do something else. It is done because it is faster than selecting one unit at a time manually.

Ex. You clone 2 scourges to kill a vessel in ZvT, then clone another 2 to kill a seperate one, repeat. (so there are many groups of 2 scourges that will target different vessels, using your scourge more efficiently
or
TvZ, cloning irradiates on lurkers/ultrlisks/defilers/etc
even
cloning psionic storms, cloning workers when you send some from one base to another(clone them, telling them to mine different mineral patches)
or
laying spider mines
etc

Hope that helps.

6AP6APblCKA

Russian Federation25 Posts

March 03 2009 14:26 GMT

#96

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scourge

Noun

scourge (countable and uncountable; plural scourges)

eh?

mr.fuglies

United States20 Posts

March 03 2009 14:57 GMT

#97

hey, noob question. lets say you grouped a overlord with the mutas and now that ol is in harms way/too close. you deselect it. is there anyway to make a new control group with those mutas harassin in the enemy base + an overlord in your base without sending all the mutas back to your base?

edit: basically adding a unit to a control group

vGl-CoW

Belgium8305 Posts

March 03 2009 15:05 GMT

#98

have the mutas selected, shift + left click on the new overlord and it will be added to the selection, ctrl + # to make a new group out of it and there you are

Wala.Revolution

7584 Posts

March 03 2009 15:23 GMT

#99

On March 03 2009 23:57 mr.fuglies wrote:
hey, noob question. lets say you grouped a overlord with the mutas and now that ol is in harms way/too close. you deselect it. is there anyway to make a new control group with those mutas harassin in the enemy base + an overlord in your base without sending all the mutas back to your base?

edit: basically adding a unit to a control group

I figured if you don't like to hotkey your overlord(s) and give command every now and then to send them back to the base, having two ovs hotkeyed and switching them after some time. I don't know how the efficiency of this though (not a zerg player).